Is it worth it to spend lots of time on making a map? Or will future updates ruin the map?
Most tutorials involve lot's of time inside the trigger editor to make all kinds of things. But shouldn't you be able to do almost anything through the data editor!?
For example I want to do a custom UI, a clean interface with some buttons that pop up more information, like attributes of a hero, similar to WoW. How can I do that though the data editor?
I've tried the Game UI tab in the data editor, but it was quite limiting, i could only make minor changes, like change the color of the unit wireframe and colors when a unit is selected.
I've tried to change the Default camera to make it a 3rd person view in the data editor, but I couldn't figure out how to make the camera rotate, follow a unit and much more through the data editor. Is that even possible (through the data editor)?
I honestly believe that the Data editor is quite limited, or maybe I'm using it for the wrong purposes?
Could someone shed some light on this? When should I use the data editor and when should I use triggers?
TY!
P.S: yes I'm a terrorist and I'll blow you up if you dont answer me *pops eyes* xD
There's no "should". Use whatever is easiest to complete the task. Don't force yourself to work by some convention. It makes no difference at all as long as you understand what goes on behind the scenes.
Is it worth it to spend lots of time on making a map? Or will future updates ruin the map?
You cannot be certain. It depends on the map and the future updates. SC2 will get more stable, as time goes on (hopefully), so upgrades will be less radical in terms of influence on existing maps.
I had my fair share of problems with new patches, I had to fix several issues for most maior patches, while other people had less problems.
Also, if you ask in a general sense, if it is worth it to spend lots of time on a map, the answer is probably no. I like to work on a map, so I just do it. I don't ask myself, if it's worth it. I don't even care, if it is played or not, its just a bonus (for wc3 I made some maps, which I never really released to the public, even though, they might not even be half bad).
Quote:
Most tutorials involve lot's of time inside the trigger editor to make all kinds of things. But shouldn't you be able to do almost anything through the data editor!?
This really depends on the task. Data can do much, but not everything. Also, in many cases, using a trigger is much easier.
General consense at the moment is using data for everything you can in terms of abilities, weapons and similar stuff. However, even the mighty data editor has its limits, no harm in using triggers here.
Performance is an issue, but usually, you don't need to worry about it THAT much.
Quote:
For example I want to do a custom UI, a clean interface with some buttons that pop up more information, like attributes of a hero, similar to WoW. How can I do that though the data editor? I've tried the Game UI tab in the data editor, but it was quite limiting, i could only make minor changes, like change the color of the unit wireframe and colors when a unit is selected.
That is something, i would not try to do in data. Use dialogs and UI override files for this.
Quote:
I've tried to change the Default camera to make it a 3rd person view in the data editor, but I couldn't figure out how to make the camera rotate, follow a unit and much more through the data editor. Is that even possible (through the data editor)?
I don't know, but there are 3ps systems already present; you could look them up. However, I highly doubt, this is doable in pure data.
Quote:
I honestly believe that the Data editor is quite limited, or maybe I'm using it for the wrong purposes? Could someone shed some light on this? When should I use the data editor and when should I use triggers?
Like already said, the data editor is great for abilities, weapons and any graphical effects. Otherwise, this question is hard to answer: You coud almost divide mappers here in 2 kinds: the data purists, who try to solve everything in pure data and use triggers only as a fallback, and the trigger people, which will do just the same with triggers; messing with the data editor only, if absolutely needed.
Usually, both of them are able to achieve their goals. Try to use either one intelligently. Are you able to replace 1 simple trigger by creating 25 new data objects? Don't do it. Are you using a periodic trigger to spam effects for a spell? You can easily replace this in data.
In general, data is more performant for similar tasks than trigger, also it is easier to polish graphics, spell effects and similar stuff in a data-only setup and more experience with data editing (at least from my experience). However, it has its limits and usually requires more time than triggering and a huge amount of objects.
Triggering is easier to do (imo), requires less time, is much more flexible, but it is more susceptible to performance issues and harder to polish visually. Also, for many easy tasks, you have no way to avoid the data editor (for example causing damage simply cannot be done without creating a damage effect in data)
there are actually like 30 version of 3rd person engines floating around and like 40 tutorials how 2 do in the first sc2 mapping buzz when there where like 20,000(quite literally) people on this site per hour it was a popular topic ive actually successfully made a smooth 3rd person camera and wsad movement through the trigger editor ill surf around n re find something cool 4 u that is quality Edit:There is one called "[Trigger] 3rd person movement" use a search 2 find it in the site another good one is [Video] 2rd person RPG
Data editor: Creating units, heros, buildings and items
Trigger editor: Spawning waves, UI stuff, score systems and cameras
Both: Keypress stuff (Eg, WASD movement), Respawning heros and getting structures to continuously make units.
It depends on what sort of thing you want to do. Generally you will only need to use Units, Abilitys, Behaviors, Effects, weapons, items and Actor tabs in the Data editor. Everything else can be done more easily in the trigger editor.
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Is it worth it to spend lots of time on making a map? Or will future updates ruin the map?
Most tutorials involve lot's of time inside the trigger editor to make all kinds of things. But shouldn't you be able to do almost anything through the data editor!?
For example I want to do a custom UI, a clean interface with some buttons that pop up more information, like attributes of a hero, similar to WoW. How can I do that though the data editor? I've tried the Game UI tab in the data editor, but it was quite limiting, i could only make minor changes, like change the color of the unit wireframe and colors when a unit is selected.
I've tried to change the Default camera to make it a 3rd person view in the data editor, but I couldn't figure out how to make the camera rotate, follow a unit and much more through the data editor. Is that even possible (through the data editor)?
I honestly believe that the Data editor is quite limited, or maybe I'm using it for the wrong purposes? Could someone shed some light on this? When should I use the data editor and when should I use triggers?
TY!
P.S: yes I'm a terrorist and I'll blow you up if you dont answer me *pops eyes* xD
@ahmedw: Go
There's no "should". Use whatever is easiest to complete the task. Don't force yourself to work by some convention. It makes no difference at all as long as you understand what goes on behind the scenes.
Hey, and welcome.
You cannot be certain. It depends on the map and the future updates. SC2 will get more stable, as time goes on (hopefully), so upgrades will be less radical in terms of influence on existing maps.
I had my fair share of problems with new patches, I had to fix several issues for most maior patches, while other people had less problems.
Also, if you ask in a general sense, if it is worth it to spend lots of time on a map, the answer is probably no. I like to work on a map, so I just do it. I don't ask myself, if it's worth it. I don't even care, if it is played or not, its just a bonus (for wc3 I made some maps, which I never really released to the public, even though, they might not even be half bad).
This really depends on the task. Data can do much, but not everything. Also, in many cases, using a trigger is much easier.
General consense at the moment is using data for everything you can in terms of abilities, weapons and similar stuff. However, even the mighty data editor has its limits, no harm in using triggers here.
Performance is an issue, but usually, you don't need to worry about it THAT much.
That is something, i would not try to do in data. Use dialogs and UI override files for this.
I don't know, but there are 3ps systems already present; you could look them up. However, I highly doubt, this is doable in pure data.
Like already said, the data editor is great for abilities, weapons and any graphical effects. Otherwise, this question is hard to answer: You coud almost divide mappers here in 2 kinds: the data purists, who try to solve everything in pure data and use triggers only as a fallback, and the trigger people, which will do just the same with triggers; messing with the data editor only, if absolutely needed.
Usually, both of them are able to achieve their goals. Try to use either one intelligently. Are you able to replace 1 simple trigger by creating 25 new data objects? Don't do it. Are you using a periodic trigger to spam effects for a spell? You can easily replace this in data.
In general, data is more performant for similar tasks than trigger, also it is easier to polish graphics, spell effects and similar stuff in a data-only setup and more experience with data editing (at least from my experience). However, it has its limits and usually requires more time than triggering and a huge amount of objects.
Triggering is easier to do (imo), requires less time, is much more flexible, but it is more susceptible to performance issues and harder to polish visually. Also, for many easy tasks, you have no way to avoid the data editor (for example causing damage simply cannot be done without creating a damage effect in data)
thanks a lot for the responses, really helpful!
there are actually like 30 version of 3rd person engines floating around and like 40 tutorials how 2 do in the first sc2 mapping buzz when there where like 20,000(quite literally) people on this site per hour it was a popular topic ive actually successfully made a smooth 3rd person camera and wsad movement through the trigger editor ill surf around n re find something cool 4 u that is quality Edit:There is one called "[Trigger] 3rd person movement" use a search 2 find it in the site another good one is [Video] 2rd person RPG
Data editor: Creating units, heros, buildings and items Trigger editor: Spawning waves, UI stuff, score systems and cameras Both: Keypress stuff (Eg, WASD movement), Respawning heros and getting structures to continuously make units.
It depends on what sort of thing you want to do. Generally you will only need to use Units, Abilitys, Behaviors, Effects, weapons, items and Actor tabs in the Data editor. Everything else can be done more easily in the trigger editor.