Just a bit of commentary on Smashcraft, Mephs, and the mapping scene in general:
I've played smashcraft some, and it's really impressive. Easily one of the most innovative maps i've seen, and good things are probably in the future.
However, I probably won't play it (for reasons aside from not being that good). Why? Mephs acts like a bit of a spoiled brat. He got one of the best game editors in existence, crafted an impressive map, but he melted down at least once on the blizzard forums basically because other maps are popular and his isn't. If your map is that much better than SotIS, then put the work into advertising it! SotIS has only like 2 people on the dev team (and a few to help out on the forums and with a league) and it's way more popular.
Granted, the popularity system needs work, but that's no reason to throw a tantrum like he did. All it does is help convince blizzard that mappers can't be pleased, and while it may drive players to you in the short term eventually you'll get a bad reputation and no one will be interested in anything you make after a while.
I also think that this sort of attitude is what is causing SCII mapping to fall apart. All of the high profile mappers got steamed because their maps didn't get really popular very fast (as well as blizzard not moving at the speed they'd like in fixing up issues with the editor) and left. If all of them would have just shut up and worked a little bit on publicizing their map (like participating in a Map Nights-esque event regularly), i'd bet there'd be a flood of innovative custom maps.
All that said, i'm for giving feedback to blizzard, as long as you don't sound like a snotty 5 year old while doing it. If you're polite and patient, i'm quite confident Blizz will listen and at least try and help you work around any issues you may have.
it just got some advertisement, lets see what that does, I myself love smashcraft. played it about 30 games in a row.. but probably wont touch it again for awhile. Has nothing to do with me liking it or not, or it being a great map or not. Just... its the kind of map I play every now and then when im in the mood, which is the case of a lot of maps.
Just a bit of commentary on Smashcraft, Mephs, and the mapping scene in general:
I've played smashcraft some, and it's really impressive. Easily one of the most innovative maps i've seen, and good things are probably in the future.
However, I probably won't play it (for reasons aside from not being that good). Why? Mephs acts like a bit of a spoiled brat. He got one of the best game editors in existence, crafted an impressive map, but he melted down at least once on the blizzard forums basically because other maps are popular and his isn't. If your map is that much better than SotIS, then put the work into advertising it! SotIS has only like 2 people on the dev team (and a few to help out on the forums and with a league) and it's way more popular.
Granted, the popularity system needs work, but that's no reason to throw a tantrum like he did. All it does is help convince blizzard that mappers can't be pleased, and while it may drive players to you in the short term eventually you'll get a bad reputation and no one will be interested in anything you make after a while.
I also think that this sort of attitude is what is causing SCII mapping to fall apart. All of the high profile mappers got steamed because their maps didn't get really popular very fast (as well as blizzard not moving at the speed they'd like in fixing up issues with the editor) and left. If all of them would have just shut up and worked a little bit on publicizing their map (like participating in a Map Nights-esque event regularly), i'd bet there'd be a flood of innovative custom maps.
All that said, i'm for giving feedback to blizzard, as long as you don't sound like a snotty 5 year old while doing it. If you're polite and patient, i'm quite confident Blizz will listen and at least try and help you work around any issues you may have.
(/naive) ;)
Sigh...
What a high strung jerk, you need to understand that "negatively reinforcing " people is a stupid idea. Don't like Smashcraft? Don't play it! Love it? Play it! You're only hurting yourself, however, when you decide to "negatively reinforce" Mephs. He gained far more supporters of Smashcraft when he posted that thread than he lost potential supporters.
You came here with the intention of finding people who also want to "negatively reinforce" mephs or other mappers who "melt down". This did not deserve a post, and should well be locked by Gorandor, as it isn't quite discussion, as much as someone bragging about being a high strung jerk. People like you really need to learn that boycotting someone's game with the intention of possibly getting them to behave differently in the future will not work. Moreover, we do not need posts about it on mapster, it is simple as that. Go post on the battle net forums where you can find other noobs who share your opinion, and possibly a spark a noob discussion.
Good luck to you, hopefully you'll understand that while you're perfectly warranted in your opinion, voicing it is needless and a moot point.
I'm not understanding how me voicing my opinion has any less of a point than Mephs "voicing his" (unless he was just making a thinly veiled play for more followers, which is just making my point). Also, for the record, I didn't negatively reinforce Mephs, he did that himself. I also apparently came off as a jerk when that was not my intention. All i was trying to say is that blizzard put a TON more work into the editor than they had to, and they're STILL getting tons of flak for "not doing enough". Does it make me sound like a jerk to say that? I don't care. It's the truth.
Think about it. Did blizzard have to put all of that work into adding the hero related stuff? How about most of the trigger editor abilities (i'm betting they don't use a good half of the editor's potential, easily)? They could have easily said "no, we're not releasing more than a simple terrain editor", and still they would have made tons of money. I'm not saying to just be happy with what you get no matter what, but the way Mephs reacted certainly wasn't the right way to react.
My reason to bring this up is to hopefully foster an improved attitude within the more malcontented parts of the mapping community. Your name calling shows that A: you're part of that section, and B: you're not interested in listening, sadly :(
I do believe that Mephs was out of line in his post. I don't see anything wrong with chastising someone who puts down all other mappers. He came across as immature. He obviously had no intention of quitting either because he was right back at it the same day. His post would have been more digestible if it was actually authentic.
I think the OP is onto something. We've tried every play in the book. Be nice, spam the forums, throw a tempter tantrum, and even online petition. Nothing has worked. Why keep up the immature attitude?
By the way, this is yet more free publicity for him. I never thought acting immature would be a brilliant marketing strategy.
Unfortunately, it is publicity >.< The immature thing is surprisingly effective (and not just in this community; all over the internet), it's really odd :S
Not too surprising actually. We have all witnessed their incompetency with BNET. Why should this be any different? So far it looks like they are only good at making the game and fail when it comes to support services.
(in a reply to "News on Bnet Marketplace")
This is the sort of thing i'm talking about. How does it help to have this seething hate at Blizzard for not getting it right the first time on an exceedingly tough and complex problem that often takes years of effort by dedicated teams of people to solve? At least, that's the way it comes off :/
And the more replies that post gets too. I've seen tons of 'new map!' posts that ends up in oblivion because no one reads or replies to them. But Meph's 7 months QQ post was very entertaining to read. :) What happened to it! I went to the sc2 forum one day and couldn't find his thread..
What does the attitude of the creator have to do with a product?
It has no direct relation, but I generally don't like playing maps from people who throw fits like 5 year olds :P
@sandround: I think blizz deleted the thread because there was too much QQ and raging and not enough good suggestions...
I think some of you missed my overall target here: I was speaking to the mapping community in general, and just using Mephs as an example.
And the more replies that post gets too. I've seen tons of 'new map!' posts that ends up in oblivion because no one reads or replies to them. But Meph's 7 months QQ post was very entertaining to read. :) What happened to it! I went to the sc2 forum one day and couldn't find his thread..
I also think that this sort of attitude is what is causing SCII mapping to fall apart. All of the high profile mappers got steamed because their maps didn't get really popular very fast (as well as blizzard not moving at the speed they'd like in fixing up issues with the editor) and left. If all of them would have just shut up and worked a little bit on publicizing their map (like participating in a Map Nights-esque event regularly), i'd bet there'd be a flood of innovative custom maps.
Actually, this sort of attitude is the last hope of the mapping community. As others before me have pointed out, that post did attract a ton of (good) attention to Smashcraft - its popularity has rocketed, especially thanks to the video by TotalBiscuit. People saw why he was pissed; his map was a hell of a leap and bound above so many of the maps on the first page (ahem... all). People just didn't check it out at first for several reasons: it wasn't that high on the list to begin with, the name might not have necessarily been the most marketable, and cynicism about maps due to the popularity system. With that post, people suddenly realized that their initial assumptions about the map were all wrong. They didn't realize the kind of effort that was put into this map compared to the other maps they've played to death. They didn't realize this WASN'T another crappy Smash Bros massing map.
I don't think Mephs was being immature so much as he was simply fed up with the stupidity and sloth of Blizzard and, let's face it, the custom game community. This was something that has been bugging a lot of mapmakers for a good few months, but when Blizzard changed the popularity system from the volatile system, that was the final straw. Now Smashcraft was being penalized for being a short (despite highly replayable) game. He could either go out with a bang, maybe kick some sense into people, or go out quietly and let his map decay. It was a last ditch effort to get something done about Battle.net 0.2, although also an effort for his map. He wasn't lying about quitting work on Smashcraft; he really was quitting, but it was the positive attention he got that brought him back to work on it. People were finally giving him a reason to keep working on the map; not only would he get feedback, but the game would remain ALIVE (as opposed to buried by the system).
I, for one, think it was something everybody needed to hear. Blizzard needs to come up with a new system that doesn't cause stagnation, and people should do better to not contribute to the stagnation of the custom game list. That includes mapmakers making only crap, when they are capable of so much more.
All that said, i'm for giving feedback to blizzard, as long as you don't sound like a snotty 5 year old while doing it. If you're polite and patient, i'm quite confident Blizz will listen and at least try and help you work around any issues you may have.
Heh, I managed to get blue attention by being polite and patient... just not in the Custom Maps forum. I had to make a post in the General Discussions forum to get a blue response. That should give you a picture of why certain people are so frustrated.
You misunderstood. My point was that whether or not there is anything redeeming about Mephs, it's stupid to relate someone's personality to their work. They are two completely unrelated concepts.
I'm not relating his personality to his work (i think he has made one of the best maps there is). I just don't care to play maps made by authors not mature enough to express their opinion calmly and politely.
I stand by my assertion that the personality and actions of a creator / artist / author / etc are irrelevant in the context of whether their product / work is good. I've personally never tried Smashcraft. But if I did try it, I'd have no preconceived notions going in. Regardless of what its creator says.
My opinion is that it's not "fair" to judge a work based on its creator. Different people have different strengths and weaknesses. It could be the case that one is immensely talented in terms of creation, but poor at communicating. It's really not fair to relate the two concepts.
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Just a bit of commentary on Smashcraft, Mephs, and the mapping scene in general:
I've played smashcraft some, and it's really impressive. Easily one of the most innovative maps i've seen, and good things are probably in the future.
However, I probably won't play it (for reasons aside from not being that good). Why? Mephs acts like a bit of a spoiled brat. He got one of the best game editors in existence, crafted an impressive map, but he melted down at least once on the blizzard forums basically because other maps are popular and his isn't. If your map is that much better than SotIS, then put the work into advertising it! SotIS has only like 2 people on the dev team (and a few to help out on the forums and with a league) and it's way more popular.
Granted, the popularity system needs work, but that's no reason to throw a tantrum like he did. All it does is help convince blizzard that mappers can't be pleased, and while it may drive players to you in the short term eventually you'll get a bad reputation and no one will be interested in anything you make after a while.
I also think that this sort of attitude is what is causing SCII mapping to fall apart. All of the high profile mappers got steamed because their maps didn't get really popular very fast (as well as blizzard not moving at the speed they'd like in fixing up issues with the editor) and left. If all of them would have just shut up and worked a little bit on publicizing their map (like participating in a Map Nights-esque event regularly), i'd bet there'd be a flood of innovative custom maps.
All that said, i'm for giving feedback to blizzard, as long as you don't sound like a snotty 5 year old while doing it. If you're polite and patient, i'm quite confident Blizz will listen and at least try and help you work around any issues you may have.
(/naive) ;)
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/general/off-topic/18746-tb-and-mephs-playing-smashcraft/#p1
it just got some advertisement, lets see what that does, I myself love smashcraft. played it about 30 games in a row.. but probably wont touch it again for awhile. Has nothing to do with me liking it or not, or it being a great map or not. Just... its the kind of map I play every now and then when im in the mood, which is the case of a lot of maps.
I figured what i wanted to say was different enough from that topic that it deserved it's own :P
Sigh...
What a high strung jerk, you need to understand that "negatively reinforcing " people is a stupid idea. Don't like Smashcraft? Don't play it! Love it? Play it! You're only hurting yourself, however, when you decide to "negatively reinforce" Mephs. He gained far more supporters of Smashcraft when he posted that thread than he lost potential supporters.
You came here with the intention of finding people who also want to "negatively reinforce" mephs or other mappers who "melt down". This did not deserve a post, and should well be locked by Gorandor, as it isn't quite discussion, as much as someone bragging about being a high strung jerk. People like you really need to learn that boycotting someone's game with the intention of possibly getting them to behave differently in the future will not work. Moreover, we do not need posts about it on mapster, it is simple as that. Go post on the battle net forums where you can find other noobs who share your opinion, and possibly a spark a noob discussion.
Good luck to you, hopefully you'll understand that while you're perfectly warranted in your opinion, voicing it is needless and a moot point.
:/
I'm not understanding how me voicing my opinion has any less of a point than Mephs "voicing his" (unless he was just making a thinly veiled play for more followers, which is just making my point). Also, for the record, I didn't negatively reinforce Mephs, he did that himself. I also apparently came off as a jerk when that was not my intention. All i was trying to say is that blizzard put a TON more work into the editor than they had to, and they're STILL getting tons of flak for "not doing enough". Does it make me sound like a jerk to say that? I don't care. It's the truth.
Think about it. Did blizzard have to put all of that work into adding the hero related stuff? How about most of the trigger editor abilities (i'm betting they don't use a good half of the editor's potential, easily)? They could have easily said "no, we're not releasing more than a simple terrain editor", and still they would have made tons of money. I'm not saying to just be happy with what you get no matter what, but the way Mephs reacted certainly wasn't the right way to react.
My reason to bring this up is to hopefully foster an improved attitude within the more malcontented parts of the mapping community. Your name calling shows that A: you're part of that section, and B: you're not interested in listening, sadly :(
I do believe that Mephs was out of line in his post. I don't see anything wrong with chastising someone who puts down all other mappers. He came across as immature. He obviously had no intention of quitting either because he was right back at it the same day. His post would have been more digestible if it was actually authentic.
I think the OP is onto something. We've tried every play in the book. Be nice, spam the forums, throw a tempter tantrum, and even online petition. Nothing has worked. Why keep up the immature attitude?
By the way, this is yet more free publicity for him. I never thought acting immature would be a brilliant marketing strategy.
Unfortunately, it is publicity >.< The immature thing is surprisingly effective (and not just in this community; all over the internet), it's really odd :S
(in a reply to "News on Bnet Marketplace")
This is the sort of thing i'm talking about. How does it help to have this seething hate at Blizzard for not getting it right the first time on an exceedingly tough and complex problem that often takes years of effort by dedicated teams of people to solve? At least, that's the way it comes off :/
Internet fame is all about notoriety, didn't you know? Hahaha.
What does the attitude of the creator have to do with a product?
Apparently the more immature one gets, the greater the publicity said product will get.
Are you listening Mapsters? Put on your sugar high and watch that thing soar through the popularity list!
@SexLethal: Go
And the more replies that post gets too. I've seen tons of 'new map!' posts that ends up in oblivion because no one reads or replies to them. But Meph's 7 months QQ post was very entertaining to read. :) What happened to it! I went to the sc2 forum one day and couldn't find his thread..
It has no direct relation, but I generally don't like playing maps from people who throw fits like 5 year olds :P
@sandround: I think blizz deleted the thread because there was too much QQ and raging and not enough good suggestions...
I think some of you missed my overall target here: I was speaking to the mapping community in general, and just using Mephs as an example.
It was deleted! ^_^
Actually, this sort of attitude is the last hope of the mapping community. As others before me have pointed out, that post did attract a ton of (good) attention to Smashcraft - its popularity has rocketed, especially thanks to the video by TotalBiscuit. People saw why he was pissed; his map was a hell of a leap and bound above so many of the maps on the first page (ahem... all). People just didn't check it out at first for several reasons: it wasn't that high on the list to begin with, the name might not have necessarily been the most marketable, and cynicism about maps due to the popularity system. With that post, people suddenly realized that their initial assumptions about the map were all wrong. They didn't realize the kind of effort that was put into this map compared to the other maps they've played to death. They didn't realize this WASN'T another crappy Smash Bros massing map.
I don't think Mephs was being immature so much as he was simply fed up with the stupidity and sloth of Blizzard and, let's face it, the custom game community. This was something that has been bugging a lot of mapmakers for a good few months, but when Blizzard changed the popularity system from the volatile system, that was the final straw. Now Smashcraft was being penalized for being a short (despite highly replayable) game. He could either go out with a bang, maybe kick some sense into people, or go out quietly and let his map decay. It was a last ditch effort to get something done about Battle.net 0.2, although also an effort for his map. He wasn't lying about quitting work on Smashcraft; he really was quitting, but it was the positive attention he got that brought him back to work on it. People were finally giving him a reason to keep working on the map; not only would he get feedback, but the game would remain ALIVE (as opposed to buried by the system).
I, for one, think it was something everybody needed to hear. Blizzard needs to come up with a new system that doesn't cause stagnation, and people should do better to not contribute to the stagnation of the custom game list. That includes mapmakers making only crap, when they are capable of so much more.
Heh, I managed to get blue attention by being polite and patient... just not in the Custom Maps forum. I had to make a post in the General Discussions forum to get a blue response. That should give you a picture of why certain people are so frustrated.
You misunderstood. My point was that whether or not there is anything redeeming about Mephs, it's stupid to relate someone's personality to their work. They are two completely unrelated concepts.
I'm not relating his personality to his work (i think he has made one of the best maps there is). I just don't care to play maps made by authors not mature enough to express their opinion calmly and politely.
So, you prefer political correctness?
I don't care if it's politically correct....
I stand by my assertion that the personality and actions of a creator / artist / author / etc are irrelevant in the context of whether their product / work is good. I've personally never tried Smashcraft. But if I did try it, I'd have no preconceived notions going in. Regardless of what its creator says.
My opinion is that it's not "fair" to judge a work based on its creator. Different people have different strengths and weaknesses. It could be the case that one is immensely talented in terms of creation, but poor at communicating. It's really not fair to relate the two concepts.