I'm having troubles getting people get into the lobby of new maps. The problem being the level of popularity of a map. Whereby popular maps have an exponential number of players joining and creating. And those new maps (even if they are good or newer) are placed under several "SHOW MORE" lists.
Take for example Bunker Defense (quite fun map). Even when new patches come along most players continue to play older versions and enter in older versions because it appears on the first (or first couple of) list. Same as with Google, most people just check the first page, maybe the second but hardly ever get into page 5-7 unless they are really looking for something in particular.
Now, this is not only a concern for my maps but even when I'm trying to play something that is not a TD/Defense of Something. Are we again going to have the DOTA problem? where only DOTA games were showing up and it was insanely hard to find enough people to play new or non-popular games?. Not for the same particular reason though. DOTA was due to its sheer massive fanbase. This time it will be because of 10 or 20 good games and in the case you want to look for something different you and me are going to have to dig down in the "SHOW MORE" not just a couple of times but several just to find diferent versions of popular maps.
But lets get to the bottom of it. How do we make a map popular or put it higher on the list?. I have already tried the corny ways, invite a couple of friends and tell them to spread the word. Also joining similar types of games and telling them: "Hey, there's some good shit over here". And also just hosting a map with bots, qutting the map, hosting it again and quitting it so it "increases the popularity" and puts it higher on the list.
And the end of the day I don't care so much about my map, its not that awesome and its just one map. My concern is regarding your map, I want to play all those other good maps that will come in the future. And that I will hardly even get to play unless you and me really dig down for them.
I hardly know what to ask, but here it goes: "How do we promote new map?"
Blizzard changes how it works. I agree that the current solution is totally wrong and will not last. I really expect Blizzard will overhaul the custom games list in the near future.
Yes, if Blizzard doesn't do anything about it we're going to have an even worse problem that we had with DotA.
At least DotA was evenly spread throughout the entire list and didn't take up the first 50 places, leaving the good stuff on page 10.
And it's going to be even worse once there are a couple of dozen maps which are popular and regulary played. New maps will have NO chance anymore when they appear at page 100.
Honestly, when the creation / join list comprehends ALL published maps... how frigging long is the list gonna be? MILES, MILES LONG!
Well, we have to do the map promoting the good old way. Go to the big SC2 websites, post your map, post video links or map descriptions. Make people go online with the goal to play your map.
If nothing changes then this'll be the only way I see.
Or, of course, you go get some hosting bot and host your map until you're on par with the other games ...
PS:
What I would want is some sort of market place where all published maps can be shown.
Like a huge list that is sorted into categories and can be searched by different parameters (map name, max or min player numbers, game type, etc).
It would only show the most up-to-date versions of all games, of course and would have a popularity rating. However maps wouldn't get sorted by popularity but simply by name or so. People then could decide what sorting criteria they want.
The market place is only good for downloading maps, not actually hosting them. You visit it if you want to check updates on your favorite maps (if they don't update themselves.. would be even better) or to search for new things.
Once you are done you can enter the Join lobby. This lobby would only show games that are currently being hosted. Again you are able to sort through some things (e.g. show only maps that you already have dl-ed, show only your fav maps).
The maps shouldn't be sorted by popularity by default, but should be totally randomly sorted. However, again, you can choose to sort them by just clicking the right button.
Agreed, there's no reason the "join game" list needs to show every map under the sun ever published. The game should include a categorized/searchable marketplace, and the "join" list should show only currently-hosted maps.
Also they need to add local hosting back in for non-premium maps...
As I see it, these are the key points to a successful map:
- Do NOT implement a restart feature.
- Do not implement a repick feature. You'd prefer people to leave (screwing their team in the process, so they leave too) and remake than to allow them to remain in the game and not remake, costing you popularity.
- Make it so you lose instantly if you fail. Very short games means more new games means higher popularity.
- Be very very careful with game length and number of players. Going from 10 minutes to 15 minutes, or from 4 to 6 players, equals -33% popularity. Remember what the popularity curve looked like in beta? High across the board on pages 1 and 2, then page 3 was a large downward curve and page 4 and beyond were dead.
- The 'new' old map list was a list of names. Use colours. Yes, you can do that.
- It must be released on day zero. It must be among the first 100 maps (5 pages) to be published. If you're not in the beta, forget it. If you have to work on that day, you should probably forget it too.
- Immediately bot. Find more PCs and bot there too. Everyone is going to bot, so make sure to bot harder. Try installing Starcraft 2 on the corporate network. Yes, you'll need multiple CD keys.
- Keep a daily eye on the map list and if someone afks and gives you 0 popularity, bot again.
- Forget about patches. When you release a new version and promote it, it will slowly pick up market share until both maps have 50% airtime and... both are at half popularity and both will disappear. Bad.
- You must have CD keys for all three regions. If not, your map will either flop or if it is popular enough in your region, get pirated and uploaded by someone else. Worst case scenario is if they fail to follow up by botting professionally, so when you do acquire a CD key for the other regions the map name is blocked and it's on page 262.
Or say to hell with it and make a single player RPG. You can publish those on various fansites.
I wouldn't worry about it too much guys, it was a beta. We all know the custom map stuff was rushed a bit, particularly the hosting system. I'm sure come release, or near release, these issues will be addressed in some shape or form.
Blizzard already said that they're working on a new popularity system.
What still buffles me, however, is how they could be so naive and make the recent one. They should know that it would get exploited from the day someone finds out how it works.
So you won't need to make short and tiny maps anymore? Well, at least in theory, in practice you're still going to need a low enough player count to actually get some full games going.
Unless they're totally revamping it, you're going to have to play dirty.
And I know the thread is old. Seemed better than making a whole new thread...
Edit: sorting by popularity and not filtering on maps that actually have games going is still a giant leap backwards and late arrivals will still drown in the pile. You'll still need to be there on launch day.
Actually they don't really need to revamp it much - just change the things that they're checking.
Right now:
Popularity = number of games made public
What it should be:
Popularity = Number of games started per hour * Number of players in the game * Number of minutes they have played the game before leaving or finishing
Of course it would still suck for new maps to come.
Hello,
TL;DR: can I has popularity?
I'm having troubles getting people get into the lobby of new maps. The problem being the level of popularity of a map. Whereby popular maps have an exponential number of players joining and creating. And those new maps (even if they are good or newer) are placed under several "SHOW MORE" lists.
Take for example Bunker Defense (quite fun map). Even when new patches come along most players continue to play older versions and enter in older versions because it appears on the first (or first couple of) list. Same as with Google, most people just check the first page, maybe the second but hardly ever get into page 5-7 unless they are really looking for something in particular.
Now, this is not only a concern for my maps but even when I'm trying to play something that is not a TD/Defense of Something. Are we again going to have the DOTA problem? where only DOTA games were showing up and it was insanely hard to find enough people to play new or non-popular games?. Not for the same particular reason though. DOTA was due to its sheer massive fanbase. This time it will be because of 10 or 20 good games and in the case you want to look for something different you and me are going to have to dig down in the "SHOW MORE" not just a couple of times but several just to find diferent versions of popular maps.
But lets get to the bottom of it. How do we make a map popular or put it higher on the list?. I have already tried the corny ways, invite a couple of friends and tell them to spread the word. Also joining similar types of games and telling them: "Hey, there's some good shit over here". And also just hosting a map with bots, qutting the map, hosting it again and quitting it so it "increases the popularity" and puts it higher on the list.
And the end of the day I don't care so much about my map, its not that awesome and its just one map. My concern is regarding your map, I want to play all those other good maps that will come in the future. And that I will hardly even get to play unless you and me really dig down for them.
I hardly know what to ask, but here it goes: "How do we promote new map?"
Thank for reading
Quote from Overseer10:
"How do we promote a map?"
----
Blizzard changes how it works. I agree that the current solution is totally wrong and will not last. I really expect Blizzard will overhaul the custom games list in the near future.
Yes, if Blizzard doesn't do anything about it we're going to have an even worse problem that we had with DotA.
At least DotA was evenly spread throughout the entire list and didn't take up the first 50 places, leaving the good stuff on page 10.
And it's going to be even worse once there are a couple of dozen maps which are popular and regulary played. New maps will have NO chance anymore when they appear at page 100.
Honestly, when the creation / join list comprehends ALL published maps... how frigging long is the list gonna be? MILES, MILES LONG!
Well, we have to do the map promoting the good old way. Go to the big SC2 websites, post your map, post video links or map descriptions. Make people go online with the goal to play your map.
If nothing changes then this'll be the only way I see.
Or, of course, you go get some hosting bot and host your map until you're on par with the other games ...
PS:
What I would want is some sort of market place where all published maps can be shown.
Like a huge list that is sorted into categories and can be searched by different parameters (map name, max or min player numbers, game type, etc).
It would only show the most up-to-date versions of all games, of course and would have a popularity rating. However maps wouldn't get sorted by popularity but simply by name or so. People then could decide what sorting criteria they want.
The market place is only good for downloading maps, not actually hosting them. You visit it if you want to check updates on your favorite maps (if they don't update themselves.. would be even better) or to search for new things.
Once you are done you can enter the Join lobby. This lobby would only show games that are currently being hosted. Again you are able to sort through some things (e.g. show only maps that you already have dl-ed, show only your fav maps).
The maps shouldn't be sorted by popularity by default, but should be totally randomly sorted. However, again, you can choose to sort them by just clicking the right button.
That would be a nice hosting system.
@s3rius: Go
Agreed, there's no reason the "join game" list needs to show every map under the sun ever published. The game should include a categorized/searchable marketplace, and the "join" list should show only currently-hosted maps.
Also they need to add local hosting back in for non-premium maps...
As I see it, these are the key points to a successful map:
- Do NOT implement a restart feature.
- Do not implement a repick feature. You'd prefer people to leave (screwing their team in the process, so they leave too) and remake than to allow them to remain in the game and not remake, costing you popularity.
- Make it so you lose instantly if you fail. Very short games means more new games means higher popularity.
- Be very very careful with game length and number of players. Going from 10 minutes to 15 minutes, or from 4 to 6 players, equals -33% popularity. Remember what the popularity curve looked like in beta? High across the board on pages 1 and 2, then page 3 was a large downward curve and page 4 and beyond were dead.
- The 'new' old map list was a list of names. Use colours. Yes, you can do that.
- It must be released on day zero. It must be among the first 100 maps (5 pages) to be published. If you're not in the beta, forget it. If you have to work on that day, you should probably forget it too.
- Immediately bot. Find more PCs and bot there too. Everyone is going to bot, so make sure to bot harder. Try installing Starcraft 2 on the corporate network. Yes, you'll need multiple CD keys.
- Keep a daily eye on the map list and if someone afks and gives you 0 popularity, bot again.
- Forget about patches. When you release a new version and promote it, it will slowly pick up market share until both maps have 50% airtime and... both are at half popularity and both will disappear. Bad.
- You must have CD keys for all three regions. If not, your map will either flop or if it is popular enough in your region, get pirated and uploaded by someone else. Worst case scenario is if they fail to follow up by botting professionally, so when you do acquire a CD key for the other regions the map name is blocked and it's on page 262.
Or say to hell with it and make a single player RPG. You can publish those on various fansites.
I wouldn't worry about it too much guys, it was a beta. We all know the custom map stuff was rushed a bit, particularly the hosting system. I'm sure come release, or near release, these issues will be addressed in some shape or form.
@BrotherLaz: Go
That post you replied to was from 26 Mar lol.
Blizzard already said that they're working on a new popularity system.
What still buffles me, however, is how they could be so naive and make the recent one. They should know that it would get exploited from the day someone finds out how it works.
So you won't need to make short and tiny maps anymore? Well, at least in theory, in practice you're still going to need a low enough player count to actually get some full games going.
Unless they're totally revamping it, you're going to have to play dirty.
And I know the thread is old. Seemed better than making a whole new thread...
Edit: sorting by popularity and not filtering on maps that actually have games going is still a giant leap backwards and late arrivals will still drown in the pile. You'll still need to be there on launch day.
@BrotherLaz: Go
Actually they don't really need to revamp it much - just change the things that they're checking.
Right now:
Popularity = number of games made public
What it should be:
Popularity = Number of games started per hour * Number of players in the game * Number of minutes they have played the game before leaving or finishing
Of course it would still suck for new maps to come.
They just need to change the formula for popularity and add more sorting options.
So, lucky few who got into the game yet - did anything change about popularity options?