So WarCraft fever has set in, and I'm sure that I'm not alone in the desire to bring some wc3 classics to sc2.
WarCraft 3 attack speed is additive. That is, each point of agility gives 2% attack speed (I think? Pretty sure!). 10 points of agility gives 20% atack speed. This goes right up to the fastest attack speed possible; +400% (or an 80% reduction; your 1.5 attack speed unit is reduced to 0.3 sec between attacks).
Now, in SC2, the default behavior attack speed works differently. Let's say you make a standard agility attribute and give it a +2% attack speed multiplier. Instead of being additive, it's multiplicative in SC2. 200 agility will actually give roughly +4,000% attack speed (your 1.5 attack speed unit will be reduced to 0.03 sec between attacks!).
Obviously, this is gamebreaking even for normal amounts of agility (50-60) and pretty much anyone who uses behavior-based agility stats is going to run into this wall.
Has anyone toyed with this? Almost seems like triggers are a must for this one!
(your 1.5 attack speed unit will be reduced to 0.03 sec between attacks!).
No it will not. It will max out at 0.0625 game seconds between attacks. It is not possible to attack more than once per deterministic frame (1/16 of a game second). WC3 had a much better (I think it was 30 attacks per game second or something)
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Obviously, this is gamebreaking even for normal amounts of agility (50-60) and pretty much anyone who uses behavior-based agility stats is going to run into this wall.
Has anyone toyed with this? Almost seems like triggers are a must for this one!
The reality is that you really should not be modifying attack speed. Even in WC3 it often ended up that you maxed out attack speed at +400% making any items useless. I would recommend people build around not using faster attack speed or doing so sparingly.
No it will not. It will max out at 0.0625 game seconds between attacks. It is not possible to attack more than once per deterministic frame (1/16 of a game second). WC3 had a much better (I think it was 30 attacks per game second or something)
I'm pretty sure that attack speed isn't limited at 0.0625. The limit you're talking about is only a so-called "game loop", which represents the time it takes for the game to update events. I experimented with this in the trigger editor where I had a trigger that spawned a marine every 0.01 seconds. 6.25 marines were created every "game loop", so in theory the limit is a much smaller number, but the game will only show progress every 0.0625 seconds.
And as for your question Tya, there seems to be no other solution than doing this through catalogs.
There may also be some kind of overflow bug when stacking a ton of attack speed. I don't know the internal workings, but one of those "levelable units" mods also gave attack speed per kill, and quite a bit at that. The result was that a Tempest would turn into a machine gun after a couple dozen kills, but eventually the attack rate would loop back to over 10s cooldown time. This would then periodically cycle every few kills.
Maybe someone just screwed up their trigger, but if it's the internal math going wonky that's another reason to stay away from attack speed buffs.
I'm pretty sure that attack speed isn't limited at 0.0625. The limit you're talking about is only a so-called "game loop", which represents the time it takes for the game to update events. I experimented with this in the trigger editor where I had a trigger that spawned a marine every 0.01 seconds. 6.25 marines were created every "game loop", so in theory the limit is a much smaller number, but the game will only show progress every 0.0625 seconds.
Try it for yourself. give a unit a 0.01 attack period and 100 times attack rate modifier. It will shoot exactly 16 times per game second even though the UI could possible say it has 0 cooldown. This is a huge problem most developers are not aware of resulting in buggy, imbalanced maps.
The game cannot run deterministic things in increments less than 1/16 of a game second. If your periodic trigger works under those conditions it is likely firing multiple times per deterministic frame.
So WarCraft fever has set in, and I'm sure that I'm not alone in the desire to bring some wc3 classics to sc2.
WarCraft 3 attack speed is additive. That is, each point of agility gives 2% attack speed (I think? Pretty sure!). 10 points of agility gives 20% atack speed. This goes right up to the fastest attack speed possible; +400% (or an 80% reduction; your 1.5 attack speed unit is reduced to 0.3 sec between attacks).
Now, in SC2, the default behavior attack speed works differently. Let's say you make a standard agility attribute and give it a +2% attack speed multiplier. Instead of being additive, it's multiplicative in SC2. 200 agility will actually give roughly +4,000% attack speed (your 1.5 attack speed unit will be reduced to 0.03 sec between attacks!).
Obviously, this is gamebreaking even for normal amounts of agility (50-60) and pretty much anyone who uses behavior-based agility stats is going to run into this wall.
Has anyone toyed with this? Almost seems like triggers are a must for this one!
No it will not. It will max out at 0.0625 game seconds between attacks. It is not possible to attack more than once per deterministic frame (1/16 of a game second). WC3 had a much better (I think it was 30 attacks per game second or something)
The reality is that you really should not be modifying attack speed. Even in WC3 it often ended up that you maxed out attack speed at +400% making any items useless. I would recommend people build around not using faster attack speed or doing so sparingly.
I'm pretty sure that attack speed isn't limited at 0.0625. The limit you're talking about is only a so-called "game loop", which represents the time it takes for the game to update events. I experimented with this in the trigger editor where I had a trigger that spawned a marine every 0.01 seconds. 6.25 marines were created every "game loop", so in theory the limit is a much smaller number, but the game will only show progress every 0.0625 seconds.
And as for your question Tya, there seems to be no other solution than doing this through catalogs.
@TyaArcade: Go
There may also be some kind of overflow bug when stacking a ton of attack speed. I don't know the internal workings, but one of those "levelable units" mods also gave attack speed per kill, and quite a bit at that. The result was that a Tempest would turn into a machine gun after a couple dozen kills, but eventually the attack rate would loop back to over 10s cooldown time. This would then periodically cycle every few kills.
Maybe someone just screwed up their trigger, but if it's the internal math going wonky that's another reason to stay away from attack speed buffs.
I think I know why this one is the lesser known one. It's in the movement tab of the behavior UI... Still, thanks for bringing this to light!
TIL about the whole 0.0625 minimum attack speed. Was agility really 1% per point? I thought it was 2%. Will check now.
Edit: Yeah it's 2% according to the wc3 site. http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/heroes.shtml Don't know if that's changed since it was written though.
Try it for yourself. give a unit a 0.01 attack period and 100 times attack rate modifier. It will shoot exactly 16 times per game second even though the UI could possible say it has 0 cooldown. This is a huge problem most developers are not aware of resulting in buggy, imbalanced maps.
The game cannot run deterministic things in increments less than 1/16 of a game second. If your periodic trigger works under those conditions it is likely firing multiple times per deterministic frame.
@ImperialGood: Go
Can confirm. Tried exactly that and the attack speed came out at 16 attacks per game second no matter what I tried.
But yeah, marking this as resolved. Thanks a lot!