SC2Mapster

I really like the syntax of grape, it looks very clean and is easy to read.

But I think exceptions are quite hard to compile to galaxy code as there are no exceptions and no gotos in galaxy. So you would basically have to check if an exception was thrown after every function call.

One way to fix this is to only allow check expressions, so you would just need to check for exceptions after calls to functions which can throw a exception. You could also look at the implementation of each function to see if it can throw exceptions or not.

An other problem with code generations are classes in general. There is not so much space available for arrays and I think arrays are the only possibility to implement objects. So your implementation of list alone would have an instance limit of 256 with no space left for other variables. Even without arrays in objects this limit can be hit quite fast.

So maybe you should add way to specify a maximum number of instances for each class. So the compiler could reserve less space for some classes and more space for often used classes.

You should start to sell advertising slots in the card game :D

I think you added some few Features which are common sources for errors:

1. You can now have assignments in expressions rather than just statements This leads to the famous if (x=5) versus if (x==5) error

2. i++, ++i
   

   These statements are nice when used on a line for themselves or inside a for loop. But they can be very confusing when used inside of expressions. It can become very hard to scan your code if you try to figure out wether i can change or not. (reading all the expressions vs reading just the left side of each assignment)
3. Omitting braces when there is just one statement after an if statement. This is also dangerous because it is easy to forget the braces if you add a second statement to the if. It is also easy to misunderstand which block an else belongs to:

   if (x <= 2)
       if (x == 2)
       {
           //Do something
       }
   else
       //Do something else
   

4. Fixed bulk copy, so you can use structs as method return types, parameters and in normal assignments This might be confusing because many other languages pass structs/objects and arrays per reference and do not create a copy. Especially it is not possible to write something like p.setX(3.14) if I understand this correctly? Or will it copy the struct to the function and then back to the caller?

This is somehow related: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/62302/most-common-one-line-bugs-in-c ;)

Why do you want to base this tool on text manipulation instead of real parsing and syntax trees? I think this is one of the main problems with vjass: you sometimes have cryptic compiler errors - with some typing errors you do not even get a compiler error at all. I hope this will be better with your tool ;)

Despite of that this project really sounds promising. But I think it is hard for a scripting language to become popular in sc2 since
1. the gui does not suck as much as it did in wc3 as there are functions and local variables
2. scripting is less important because many things have to be done with the data editor

Maybe a successful scripting language would need support to create and manipulate data at compile time.

Quote from TheSkunk2: Go

@peeeq: Go

Its INCREDIBLY easy to join un-popular maps now. Search for it, bookmark it, and then just always join it from the bookmark list.

What is the point in joining un-popular maps when you are still alone in the game. It is still very unlikely that someone else will join the same unpopular map as you do at the same time. A majority will not even know that this map exists and everybody else will not know that someone else wants to play the map right now.

Don't get me wrong, I also think 1.3 is an improvement but I also think that blizzard does not see the main problem.

@Vexal: Go

Vexal is right here. I think Blizzard still has not seen the real problem. The problem is not that we cannot find maps we want to play. I would like to find maps which I want to play and others want to play at the same time.

So with wc3 I basically had two options: Either I could choose one of the maps which others wanted to play or I would just choose one specific map I wanted and create a game for it which could be seen by other players.

Even with the new sc2 system I still cannot do that. Still nobody can see games I created so I have to search for players by myself.

So I think Blizzard should just replace the most popular list with a recently hosted list where recently created games are shown in reverse order (oldest games first). That way you could play any game you want as you would be on the top of the list after waiting some minutes and you would stay there until enough players have joined your game.

Some of these might be rather unrealistic but I will mention them nevertheless ^:

1. do not localize the editor so it is easier for someone with a non English game to follow English tutorials
2. Allow an unlimited number of dependencies for a map
3. Add more texture slots for terrain
4. Add a tool to flip terrain on the diagonal
5. Add no-air (and maybe water) pathing (no fly zones are not working)
6. Allow us to rotate doodads freely in all directions (roll, tilt)
7. Secure banks (for example use private key on bnet server to encrypt banks or store hash/signature on bnet servers)
8. Add an option to make doodas walkable as a whole (independent of what is marked as walkable in the model file)
9. Add static triggers which are executed at compile time and are able to create data like the data editor (this would allow us to create spells, parts of spells and systems which can easily be reused and adjusted)
10. Fix structs so they can be used like simple classes (pass as parameter, use as result type, dynamically create instances, ...)
11. Allow us to write Plugins for the editor so we are able to ...
    • use an advanced compiler like andromeda without hacking the editor
    • write some kind of data editor helpers (external tools which can alter the data without the need to close your map and open it again)

I hope there will be a special price for the worst comic :D

Two more ideas:

• Set up something like Google Moderator so Blizzard can always see the most important questions and suggestions
• Allow us to link to maps and games inside BattleNet. This way fansites like mapster could implement their own custom game list and mapmakers could link their maps directly. It would just need some filetype which is by default associated with sc2 and when opened joins the map specified in the file.

The Custom Game List cannot be fixed by a smarter sorting, by a random sorting or by adding a search.

The only existing problem is that nobody can see my game if I create a game of a map I like to play. This can only be fixed if the current system is abandoned and a system like in Wc3 is used which is a good basis to start with because its few problems can easily be fixed whereas the current system is impossible to fix.

Concerning the editor: We should be able to extend the editor by additional tools without hacking it: - Run something like andromeda on save - Other tools should be able to edit data while the map is opened by the editor (this would allow us to develop alternative data editors which could be easier or more effective to work with or just specialized for a certain task [for example a tool which is just a wizard for adding a chainlightning spell to a map])

When you host your map you have to open it to public. Private games are not counted. At least that is what i have heard.

Quote from Abion47: Go

@peeeq: Go

But that's the whole reason behind putting tutorials in a wiki where they can be edited by anyone. As the pass of the beta showed, a lot of tutorials' content becomes obsolete or deprecated, and usually after someone writes a tutorial they just abandon it to the masses, and it never gets updated with the new content.

I totally agree with you but my experience has shown that most people prefer forums for writing tutorials. Over at our German community we first had all Tutorials inside our wiki but user participation was very low. After we created a sub-forum for tutorials people began to post them. The reasons could also be bad promotion for the wiki by us but I think its just the case that only a few people are familiar with the wiki principle (although everyone looks up stuff on wikipedia frequently).

Quote from Abion47: Go

GalaxyWiki is a wiki about StarCraft II in general. It has a few tips and tutorials about mapping, but it ultimately has the same problem I talked about before about sc2mapster, in that it's trying to incorporate every aspect, and some of the "lesser" aspects aren't getting the attention they deserve.

However, if you all really think it's not necessary, I'll drop the wiki. I'm still going to make a trigger API somewhere, because it is something that is desperately needed. (I also plan on incorporating a data API sometime in the future.)

GalaxyWiki is a pure mapping wiki. Of course many articles in the wiki do not get the attention they deserve but I think this is not what a wiki is made for. A wiki should collect knowledge and organize it in a way that it can be maintained, searched and referenced to. If you want to start a new site for every aspect it will be very difficult for people to find your stuff. So in my opinion its rather contra productive to start a new wiki. Just stay at the big existing sites: Use the mapster-Forums for Tutorials (the tutorials listing actually is a wiki page) and galaxywiki for articles about facts or specific topics (like http://www.galaxywiki.net/index.php?title=Time ) or small tutorials (explaining only one task).

For big tutorials a wiki is not suitable in my opinion because people want to be seen as the author after they have spent some time in creating a long tutorial and many people do not want their tutorials to be edited by someone else.

Why not use galaxywiki. It runs original mediawiki software, no ads, already has 160 article and does not belong to any specific community. Staredit.net and sc2mod.com are already linking to this wiki in their main navigation-bar and it would be nice if mapster did the same.

Quote from Fellius: Go

The 2^21 byte limit really, really needs to be fixed.

really really really. It would also be nice to have dynamic allocation of structs in galaxy.