CREEPSTORM
@expansion denying with creep colonys: yea thats whats making it a bit iffy to let them freebuild, itl also greatly increase there defense though because now they can build up at there ramp, even if creep is still a ways from it.., i could possibly reduce the movement speed of drones off creep aswell as colony build time off creep.,
QUEENGAMBIT
nice post, kinda felt like you didnt read the link but thats ok :P
@ the tech tree, its not exactly confined. i decided what was gonna build from what before i made the actual tree.. i just moved the stuff around on the page to have better fit./flow :P, no part of it was really added 'because there was room'. except maybe the legend, which has nothing to do with gameplay, but helps others read the chart)
@ forced paths; i dont really like this idea to much, although your kinda forcing your path when u pick human, zerg or protoss..., but beyond that, making a decision which way to go and having no way to change that prettymuch requires atleast 1.5x the units to ensure that both paths had sufficient counters to everything, and i think this may spread the quality a little to low.., although building on that idea.. it might be interesting IF i were to allow the user 1 'hero' unit per game, and several buildings could spawn several different types of this 'hero' (probably just a buffed version of whatever tech unit that building allows, and maybe with 1-2 bonus spells, but in no way as godly as wc3 heros), also they could 'revive' (purchase again with same experience, but maybe at a greater cost)
@lurker the zerg tree already includes it.. not sure if people just arnt looking at the link or what? :P
@dragoons its on the techtree image above, aswell as in my current plans for toss
@shield batterys: what ive currently got is a replacement (that upgrades from a pylon, with cybernetics as a req) and still not sure if im gonna let it heal buildings
@queens fly: probably not from what ive decided there gonna kinda be like they are in sc2 (cept with different/less macro heavy role)
@slime, buildings moving (especially in 'normal' mode) is really stiff concept, and when it comes to balancing, imagine if a building were trying to go down a ramp, prettymuch blocking everything in till it gets down.., at one time i had a tower concept that was somewhat like this, you built a sunken basically, which came with 3-4 tenticles, that you could build anywhere on the same creep patch as the sunken, and once built they could burrow back under and relocate, but i think my current zerg tower is a little better, and there isnt really room for both
@dynamic terrain: id definently like to get more into this... as written in my post...
i do plan on reverting to the high ground miss-rate, instead of the current where yo usimply cant see up...
i would like to give vehicles a speed bonus on roads/concreate, and slow units traveling in water, ect.
at:Maybe more doodads or terrains that give 2% chance of atk bonus or 2% chance of increased armor.
not quite sure where your goin, but if u mean that fireing over a doodad could increase the rate of missing your target, that might be possible, although completely blocking the unit from targeting a unit hiding behind a rock may be a little hard..., it might work if i could find a way to prevent units from sharing vision with eachother (which would really change alot ingame, including tanks who can shoot past there sight range, would either need more sight or less range)'
@extra names; i was thinking once the units reached level 10 they get a special name or something to go with there rank...
@variety; kinda like how dark templar comes in 2 models?, if theres extra models that fit the bill, i could definitively see this becoming a reality.
@build pylon next to cybernetics, to give goons blink? what? that sounds a tad bit complicated, maybe if the cybernetics could function as a pyolon after an upgrade that also allows the goons crafted to blink.. but i dont really like this idea :P
thanks guys for the help, and for those that missed it in the first post.. heres the link again for whats currently going in the 'project'
Hiveworkshop.com - Sc1.5
and the other 2 tech tree images (found at the above link, but added here for convenience)
Zerg
im not sure if you noticed (or if you were just pointing out sc2s current status).. but in my tech tree hydralisk den only requires spawning pool.., and on the defensive note spore only requires evolution chambers..
also @ Creep Colonies since im on the topic, does anyone think they should be buildable off creep?, or would that add to much versitility, to early in the game?, what if they just built slower off creep or something..?
i agree the shield battery looked cool, however from my initial layout the pylons will have an upgrade that essentially covers the shield batteries role so chances are whatever i use as the model will resemble a pylon a bit more than the battery...
Mechanic wise, this allows for maneuverability (getting a battery anywhere you have a pylon, without needing a probe nearby, and making a stronger pylon, thus reducing the need for pylons field overlap. Do you think the battery should work on structures?, and are you for/against all shields being replaced with energy (pretty much like manashield in WC3)
personally i like bouncing towers, they add interesting mechanic, splash is crowd thinning, bounce is group finishing, and usually finish off with 1-2 single shot towers at the end of the line...
a few misc tower ideas
GOOD
Bouncing attacks
Splash - it can be overpowered in alot of situations, however if there was a max damage, or hybrid (deals x per attack upto 5 targets, then 1/2 that to any additional targets per attack)
cold (aoe slow) - non-stacking, or limited stacking ofcourse... (limited meaning the first attack from the tower slows 20%, then next attack 10% more, then 3rd might add 5%, any attacks after that dont slow more.
Poison (Dot) - poison is interesting, although in many tds it tends to mess with the auto-targeting system of other towers making it bad for most builds, this is usually caused by its slow., If poison however was only damage, stacked properly, and could kill, it might be interesting. Poison can also deal more damage to stronger units, maybe each attack deals 1-5% of a units max health in damage, then the poison damage does a set amount over 3-5 seconds)
Stacking - towers that do more damage the more times the target has been attacked, (by any stacking towers), think incinerate in wc3 (if uve played it enough to know about that)
chance towers - a tower that gets 1 attack per round, and can either hit, or miss.. if it hits it might be good to have a rather large aoe attack or something of the sort to offset its other weaknesses
armor reducing tower - blablabla, maybe give it acid attacks that reduce aoe armor.. to make it more td friendly
Hero Towers, towers that level the longer they have been around, maybe give it upgrades, that require a specific level of kills, or experience to upgrade to.....
BAD
Gold towers - towers that give cash almost always turn out to strong..
Stun towers- they always either end up to strong (vs bosses), or to weak (vs masses), so unless you made the stun short or non-existant on bosses, and maybe made the tower automatically switch to an un-stunned target if it sucessfully stunned something..
Teleport towers- any tower that can tp a target backwards, again is usually to strong against bosses' or when massed, however if it were chance based it might be ok
Im currently looking for Ideas/suggestions, for a possible alternative melee tech tree... any ideas are apreciated, although not all will likely go into the mod
This 'Project' is basically a rework of starcraft/starcraft 2 tech tree and game mechanics/systems, incorporating the best of both worlds, as-well as new/replaced units/upgrades to better fill the needed roles. The aim is to produce a fun, dynamic, balanced; races and relationship; between the 3 races, while adding some interesting new game mechanics (something i think sc2 for the most part failed to do, in attempts to 'play it safe by sticking to closely to its predecessor )
______
at its current phase, it is in the CONCEPTUAL STAGE this means that everything posted is majorly open to suggestion/feedback and nothing as-of yet has been made, or is guaranteed to be made.
please dont complain to much about balance, except in a general sense, as none of the stats have even been tested ingame, which is where primary imbalances are discovered.
Good Balance Complaint: The protoss are currently lacking anti-bio weaponry(splash/low damage), maybe you could add something to help with this
Why?; because in the current stage this is helpful, as im trying to get a good general layout of the 3 races, including what units go where on the tech tree, inorder to effectively counter other strategys, and ideally every strategy should have an effective counter if identified ahead of time.
Bad Balance complaint: That unit is way to OP, it shouldnt have X ability
Why?; well because no ability inherently makes a unit overpowered.. its the stats on the unit/ability that affect its overall balance.
Firstly almost all the spells would require recording (along with alot of the systems), secondly wc3 melee isnt all that great in my opinion(and i play more wc3 than sc, just custom games), as you said though it IS POSSIBLE, and i really wish they come out with a wc4 sometime in the next 5 years :P but not really for its melee.. (sc has always had a better melee experience)
0
CREEPSTORM @expansion denying with creep colonys: yea thats whats making it a bit iffy to let them freebuild, itl also greatly increase there defense though because now they can build up at there ramp, even if creep is still a ways from it.., i could possibly reduce the movement speed of drones off creep aswell as colony build time off creep.,
QUEENGAMBIT nice post, kinda felt like you didnt read the link but thats ok :P
@ the tech tree, its not exactly confined. i decided what was gonna build from what before i made the actual tree.. i just moved the stuff around on the page to have better fit./flow :P, no part of it was really added 'because there was room'. except maybe the legend, which has nothing to do with gameplay, but helps others read the chart)
@ forced paths; i dont really like this idea to much, although your kinda forcing your path when u pick human, zerg or protoss..., but beyond that, making a decision which way to go and having no way to change that prettymuch requires atleast 1.5x the units to ensure that both paths had sufficient counters to everything, and i think this may spread the quality a little to low.., although building on that idea.. it might be interesting IF i were to allow the user 1 'hero' unit per game, and several buildings could spawn several different types of this 'hero' (probably just a buffed version of whatever tech unit that building allows, and maybe with 1-2 bonus spells, but in no way as godly as wc3 heros), also they could 'revive' (purchase again with same experience, but maybe at a greater cost)
@lurker the zerg tree already includes it.. not sure if people just arnt looking at the link or what? :P @dragoons its on the techtree image above, aswell as in my current plans for toss @shield batterys: what ive currently got is a replacement (that upgrades from a pylon, with cybernetics as a req) and still not sure if im gonna let it heal buildings
@queens fly: probably not from what ive decided there gonna kinda be like they are in sc2 (cept with different/less macro heavy role) @slime, buildings moving (especially in 'normal' mode) is really stiff concept, and when it comes to balancing, imagine if a building were trying to go down a ramp, prettymuch blocking everything in till it gets down.., at one time i had a tower concept that was somewhat like this, you built a sunken basically, which came with 3-4 tenticles, that you could build anywhere on the same creep patch as the sunken, and once built they could burrow back under and relocate, but i think my current zerg tower is a little better, and there isnt really room for both
@dynamic terrain: id definently like to get more into this... as written in my post... i do plan on reverting to the high ground miss-rate, instead of the current where yo usimply cant see up... i would like to give vehicles a speed bonus on roads/concreate, and slow units traveling in water, ect. at:Maybe more doodads or terrains that give 2% chance of atk bonus or 2% chance of increased armor. not quite sure where your goin, but if u mean that fireing over a doodad could increase the rate of missing your target, that might be possible, although completely blocking the unit from targeting a unit hiding behind a rock may be a little hard..., it might work if i could find a way to prevent units from sharing vision with eachother (which would really change alot ingame, including tanks who can shoot past there sight range, would either need more sight or less range)'
@extra names; i was thinking once the units reached level 10 they get a special name or something to go with there rank...
@variety; kinda like how dark templar comes in 2 models?, if theres extra models that fit the bill, i could definitively see this becoming a reality. @build pylon next to cybernetics, to give goons blink? what? that sounds a tad bit complicated, maybe if the cybernetics could function as a pyolon after an upgrade that also allows the goons crafted to blink.. but i dont really like this idea :P
thanks guys for the help, and for those that missed it in the first post.. heres the link again for whats currently going in the 'project' Hiveworkshop.com - Sc1.5 and the other 2 tech tree images (found at the above link, but added here for convenience) Zerg
and Human
0
im not sure if you noticed (or if you were just pointing out sc2s current status).. but in my tech tree hydralisk den only requires spawning pool.., and on the defensive note spore only requires evolution chambers.. also @ Creep Colonies since im on the topic, does anyone think they should be buildable off creep?, or would that add to much versitility, to early in the game?, what if they just built slower off creep or something..?
0
i agree the shield battery looked cool, however from my initial layout the pylons will have an upgrade that essentially covers the shield batteries role so chances are whatever i use as the model will resemble a pylon a bit more than the battery... Mechanic wise, this allows for maneuverability (getting a battery anywhere you have a pylon, without needing a probe nearby, and making a stronger pylon, thus reducing the need for pylons field overlap. Do you think the battery should work on structures?, and are you for/against all shields being replaced with energy (pretty much like manashield in WC3)
0
personally i like bouncing towers, they add interesting mechanic, splash is crowd thinning, bounce is group finishing, and usually finish off with 1-2 single shot towers at the end of the line... a few misc tower ideas
GOOD Bouncing attacks Splash - it can be overpowered in alot of situations, however if there was a max damage, or hybrid (deals x per attack upto 5 targets, then 1/2 that to any additional targets per attack) cold (aoe slow) - non-stacking, or limited stacking ofcourse... (limited meaning the first attack from the tower slows 20%, then next attack 10% more, then 3rd might add 5%, any attacks after that dont slow more. Poison (Dot) - poison is interesting, although in many tds it tends to mess with the auto-targeting system of other towers making it bad for most builds, this is usually caused by its slow., If poison however was only damage, stacked properly, and could kill, it might be interesting. Poison can also deal more damage to stronger units, maybe each attack deals 1-5% of a units max health in damage, then the poison damage does a set amount over 3-5 seconds) Stacking - towers that do more damage the more times the target has been attacked, (by any stacking towers), think incinerate in wc3 (if uve played it enough to know about that) chance towers - a tower that gets 1 attack per round, and can either hit, or miss.. if it hits it might be good to have a rather large aoe attack or something of the sort to offset its other weaknesses armor reducing tower - blablabla, maybe give it acid attacks that reduce aoe armor.. to make it more td friendly Hero Towers, towers that level the longer they have been around, maybe give it upgrades, that require a specific level of kills, or experience to upgrade to.....
BAD Gold towers - towers that give cash almost always turn out to strong.. Stun towers- they always either end up to strong (vs bosses), or to weak (vs masses), so unless you made the stun short or non-existant on bosses, and maybe made the tower automatically switch to an un-stunned target if it sucessfully stunned something.. Teleport towers- any tower that can tp a target backwards, again is usually to strong against bosses' or when massed, however if it were chance based it might be ok
0
Im currently looking for Ideas/suggestions, for a possible alternative melee tech tree... any ideas are apreciated, although not all will likely go into the mod
Starcraft 1.5's main Page ___PROJECT DESCRIPTION__ (pulled from the page linked above)
This 'Project' is basically a rework of starcraft/starcraft 2 tech tree and game mechanics/systems, incorporating the best of both worlds, as-well as new/replaced units/upgrades to better fill the needed roles. The aim is to produce a fun, dynamic, balanced; races and relationship; between the 3 races, while adding some interesting new game mechanics (something i think sc2 for the most part failed to do, in attempts to 'play it safe by sticking to closely to its predecessor ) ______
at its current phase, it is in the CONCEPTUAL STAGE this means that everything posted is majorly open to suggestion/feedback and nothing as-of yet has been made, or is guaranteed to be made.
please dont complain to much about balance, except in a general sense, as none of the stats have even been tested ingame, which is where primary imbalances are discovered.
Good Balance Complaint: The protoss are currently lacking anti-bio weaponry(splash/low damage), maybe you could add something to help with this Why?; because in the current stage this is helpful, as im trying to get a good general layout of the 3 races, including what units go where on the tech tree, inorder to effectively counter other strategys, and ideally every strategy should have an effective counter if identified ahead of time. Bad Balance complaint: That unit is way to OP, it shouldnt have X ability Why?; well because no ability inherently makes a unit overpowered.. its the stats on the unit/ability that affect its overall balance.
_________
0
Firstly almost all the spells would require recording (along with alot of the systems), secondly wc3 melee isnt all that great in my opinion(and i play more wc3 than sc, just custom games), as you said though it IS POSSIBLE, and i really wish they come out with a wc4 sometime in the next 5 years :P but not really for its melee.. (sc has always had a better melee experience)