That's exactly where I got stuck. I do NOT want the two units 'tethered' together like with Neural Parasite because what's going on biologically is very different. Instead of a temporary controlling of the target's mind, its whole biology is being reworked until, while it may resemble its original form in many ways, it's really a totally new organism. The transition into Infected Unit has to be instant and permanent while still allowing the Spore Cloud to move on and infect other targets.
Also, the player will only get one Spore Cloud ever, to get the game started. I'm thinking of having it die after, say, five minutes, to force the player to use other units so it won't be too easy. The Spore Cloud is meant to allow the player to snag a few Drones so they can start building and get the game going.
I'm going to have to create a whole set of units and structures for this... man, biiiig project. It'll be worth it though if I can pull this off. I love the idea of the Zerg getting overwhelmed from within by a totally unexpected assault from a life form SO similar to them... >D
I never played Halo myself, but I'm on a website called Wajas which has a Flood Club inspired by the Halo Flood but tailored to the Wajas game, which I became involved with. Being now a high-ranking member of that club and obsessed with our version of the Flood, when I started playing SCII I noticed immediately the similarities between our version of the Flood, especially, and the Zerg. So ever since I've had a hankering to make a map about a Flood outbreak in the middle of a thoroughly Zerg-controlled world. My skills at mapmaking have advanced to the point where I feel up to tackling the challenge, but I still need a bit of help figuring out how to do a few things, at least in the most efficient way possible. I could probably BS a solution to these problems but I doubt it would be particularly elegant or effective compared to what you all can come up with.
Basically, here's how I want the map to work. You start out controlling a single unit, a Flood Spore Cloud. Flood Spore Clouds are an air unit, permanently cloaked and can move, but have no standard attack or weapon. Their one and only ability would be Infection - the targeted unit becomes an "Infected (unit)" and comes under your control. A Spore Cloud can use this ability repeatedly without dying, but if it's spotted by a detector and killed you're SOL unless you've infected a Drone.
Basically, it's Zerg vs. Zerg, but I want to give the Infected Zerg units some special abilities and make them more like Flood units - for example, Hydralisks become Ranged Forms, Ultralisks become Tank Forms, and so forth. The main thing stopping me right now is Infection, though. I tried to use Neural Parasite as a base for the ability but got lost very quickly LOL. Some guidance there would be highly appreciated. I'll post more questions as I move forward with the map but right now just solving the Infection thing would be very helpful.
Basically, I need Infection to do two things - cause the targeted unit to become the player's unit, and transform it into a different unit entirely, the Infected form of the unit. I was planning to make separate units to represent the infected Zerg so they could be different from normal Zerg in ways beyond cosmetic changes. If that won't work for some reason, alternatives would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!
I think you might be better off drawing a region with the tool rather than coding it, then using another trigger to make the region itself move. You'll have to start the region on the map well out of the way instead of off the map I believe, but that might help.
What exactly is supposed to happen if it were working correctly?
I need to learn how to customize AI for a couple of maps I'm working on. Essentially, I want my maps to be fun whether you're playing with other people or playing against AI. The problem is, the default AI apparently can't handle my maps. It keeps doing stupid things like not using its base expansion points properly if at all, ignoring ramps (and thus not using them or anything the ramp allows access to) and not making intelligent use of the terrain. In fact it actively builds in such a way that the terrain is a detriment to its functioning. So I want to customize the AI so it's capable of functioning at least reasonably well on these maps. Specifically, I need to do the following things:
Teach it to properly expand its bases and use its expansion bases by actually building a CC/Nex/Hatch there instead of parking a worker there and then leaving it there for eternity, or else sending its workers long-distance to harvest.
Teach it to build better units for the terrain, and then use them properly (placing Colossi/Hydras/Seige Tanks on high ground, using Medivacs/Overlords/Warp Prisms to move units to inaccessible terrain, and so forth.)
Teach it to seek out and collect the resource items (as opposed to harvestable resource deposits) scattered around the map... but not to the exclusion of everything else.
Is this something I would do with triggers or the data editor? If I've got this in the wrong forum, sorry about that. In any event, though, both general and specific information on editing the AI would be highly appreciated.
There are quite a lot of things I'll be wanting to do. I don't even know everything I need to do yet. :p I'll just give an example of one I'm working on right now. The HoBG Ahroun unit needs to be able to cloak normally while in motion, and be totally undetectable even by detectors when not in motion. Both would be triggered with a button and drain energy.
Or, for another one, a LuRT Galliard unit would be able to "rescue" critters, turning them into allied units with their own abilities depending on what critter it is. And so on. This map is going to take a VERY long time to make. But it'll be worth it when it's done, at least for me. XD
Believe me, I understand that. I'm not trying to tell you that you're doing something bad, per se. I'm just trying to let you know that it's probably not going to work out the way you want it to with just plain copy-pasting. On the other hand, if you've been working on this for three months, I don't understand why you don't have enough working familiarity with the editor to assemble that trigger. I'm pretty sure I could do it from that, and I've only been making maps a couple of weeks. Then again, I did find the editor more easy to intuitively grasp than a lot of people apparently do. If nobody else has done so in a few days, I'll take a stab at making an example map with that trigger for you. But after that, you're on your own as far as making it work on your own map. I don't know enough about your map to go any further.
Oh dear. I hope I don't manage to create four copies of the Attack action like I did last time I tried this... e.e; Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, anyhow. I'd feel more confident if I had more specific details, but it's okay. I know it's a pretty n00bish question.
And... yeah. I'm pretty sure I had figured that part out on my own. ;p It's okay if you don't know how to do it yourself, but all you have to do is say so. It's not like I know any more than you do when it comes to that.
Anyone with advice on creating custom units and custom unit abilities would be VERY appreciated and rewarded with as much testing time of their map(s) as they desire (or help on something they're struggling with, albeit it's unlikely that someone who knows how to do what I'm asking would ever require my meager skills.)
Sorry, but even if someone did what you're asking for you, it wouldn't really work out the way you want it to. You can't just straight-up copy-paste this kind of thing. This is a list of instructions which shows you what it should look like in the editor when you get it correct. Even if someone makes a map for you with it all set up, and you copy-paste it into the map you're making, you're still going to have to have enough understanding of what you're doing to edit anything that needs editing to make it work on your particular map, as opposed to on the example map. You can't just copy this all into your own map and expect it to work. This relies on specific player numbers and suchlike which may or may not apply to your map the way you have it set up right now.
Honestly, I sympathize with your desire to have it all done for you. When I first started doing this a week or two ago I felt the same way sometimes. But I still put in the work to try to learn as much of the editor intuitively and through trial and error as I could. I only asked for help when nothing I tried was working. And even then, only once was I able to copy-paste what someone gave me. Even then I had to know how to create a region, link the trigger to the region, and do other kinds of changes to the copy-pasted trigger before it would work the way I wanted it to. The player giving me something to work on was VERY helpful and I couldn't have solved the problem without his help... but if I hadn't already known my way around the editor to a certain degree, I wouldn't have been able to do anything with what he gave me.
tl;dr I really hope you know how to use the editor and aren't thinking you can just copy-paste whatever's on the example map straight into your map without needing to change a single thing and have it work exactly how you want it to. Or, worse, that you aren't planning to just take the example map and edit it into being "your" map. It's not going to work the way you want it to either way. I would be -very- surprised if the above trigger would work if directly copy-pasted from an example map to another map without the other map being altered to fit the trigger's specifications. I'm relatively new to this myself but from what I know about triggers, that relies on you setting up other things outside the trigger itself for the trigger to reference. You'll need to make those as well or it will fail.
I've long been entertained by the idea of making 'Garou units'. Not necessarily with actual werewolf graphics, at least not right now, but units with abilities and properties appropriate to the Werewolf: the Apocalypse trope they represent. "Lupus" units will use the Predator model or other four-legged/wheeled things. "Homid" units will be humanoid units like marines, marauders, and suchlike. "Metis" units I haven't decided on yet... probably just everything that doesn't fit into the first two classifications unless there's some specific reason I feel like it would fit best as one of the first two. Auspice and tribal affiliations translate into the unit's powers and properties. Black Spiral Dancer units would allow any race to use Zerglike anti-enemy abilities like an equivalent of toxic creep or corruption. Fianna units would be able to cause enemy units to stop attacking and flee for, say, ten seconds, or buff their allies' attack temporarily with a "battle song". Galliard units might be able to "rescue" critters, turning them into allied combat units. Ragabash units might be able to cloak. Et cetera.
However, I've been having a lot of trouble figuring out how to create new units in general, and especially with custom abilities/behaviors. Any guidance in this regard would be really appreciated. Thank you!
In this particular case, I want the lava to be stationary. However, that's a very sneaky and nasty idea for Magmaze 2... essentially the premise is that in Magmaze, you're in the smaller, less dangerous upper levels of the lava tunnel system. But in Magmaze 2 you've moved deeper into the complex in search of both rich mineral deposits and to get to the McGuffin. If the McGuffin happens to be in a spot that is usually flooded with lava, and the lava only lowers every few minutes for maybe ten seconds... >D
Basically the idea is that the Terrans want to mine the place but have noticed that something else is up because the other two races seem to be after something other than resources, the Zerg want to find the McGuffin and use it, and the Protoss want to destroy the McGuffin before the 'evil' Zerg or the ignorant Terrans find it. I haven't decided on the exact nature of the McGuffin yet. But once I've done Magmaze 2 I'll be making subsequent 'what-if' scenario maps to continue the story, one for each possibility. Say the Zerg get there first and get hold of the McGuffin; that map will involve the Zerg scrambling to hold off the Protoss long enough get the McGuffin off-planet and the Protoss trying to destroy the McGuffin before the Zerg can get it out of there. If the Protoss get the McGuffin first, they'll have to hold the Zerg off long enough for them to destroy it (I'll make it something very durable so this is a decent amount of time to play the game in.) And if the Terrans find the McGuffin... I haven't decided whether to have them ally with the Protoss against the Zerg to hold the Zerg off while the Protoss destroy it, or have the Terrans piss off the Protoss by trying to use it themselves against the Zerg. So in that scenario you'd have the Terrans trying to wipe the Zerg off the planet while driving off Protoss surgical strikes aimed at destroying the McGuffin.
The only two maps I'd like to be directly connected are Magmaze and Magmaze 2 though. The 'third episode' of the story will have all the different maps above made, to represent all possible results of play on the first two maps, depending on what sounds most interesting to play through at the time. In short, I don't want there to be a "canon" ending; that is, whether the Zerg, Protoss, or Terrans 'officially' get it in the end. It's just meant to be a fun mini-campaign-type thing to play with.
My map Glory to the Hogs uses a similar concept. The main way to beat the map is to seize the island in the middle of the river and hold it against the other player's attempts to take it from you (1v1 map) for 20 uninterrupted minutes. If you can keep the island for 20 minutes without losing it for even the briefest moment, you win. If you lose it, though, the timer dies and you have to start all over.
I had trouble figuring out how to do this myself, but I asked the fine people here and got a great suggestion. After very slight modification, for my purposes, this worked great. I expect a variant of it (in the area of what unit[s] trigger[s] the timer to begin) might work for your purposes.
I'm going to describe this in general terms first, because, like the person who helped me, I think you'll benefit more if I teach you how to fish rather than give you a fish. I may be weird, but I found the trigger editor fairly intuitive once I'd gotten an idea of what it could actually do and what each term like 'event' and 'action' meant specifically. If you're anything like me, the description should give you enough information to be able to figure out which specific events and actions and such I'm talking about by poking through the lists. I more or less BSed my way through learning the Map Editor that way. I ask questions only when I try to do something over and over in every way I can think of and it always totally fails. XD (And even then, once or twice, I figured it out while waiting for an answer.) Maybe my brain just works weirdly but I don't find the Map Editor to be especially counter-intuitive. It just takes a minute to adjust your brain to the paradigm. Or mine, anyway.
However, if this description doesn't work for you because unlike me you have a normal and healthy brain, you probably should check out my map and take a look at the code directly. The most useful responses I get here generally involve nice little map examples people throw together for me. I can do one for you if you want. But it'd probably also be good to look at Glory, because it's an example of the same general idea in a map meant to be played on and used.
I've got it uploaded to this site, and I'm pretty sure you can get at it from my forum profile. If not, just say so in your next reply (or PM me if you'd prefer; doesn't matter) and I'll attach my local copy to my next reply to you.
First, before anything else, obviously, I set up the map's terrain. Most importantly, I made the river with a deep, wandering cliff trench in the middle of the map. In the middle of that I raised the cliffs again, as high as they'll go in the center, making a sort of "mountain". Then, fish, trees, mucho dinero lots of rich resources, and water. Voila: river with highly desirable island.
Then I drew a region around the whole island (or, at least, the unit-accessible parts.) Region 001 = the island.
Now, to the trigger editor! Thanks to the astute guidance of someone here whose username slips my mind at the moment, sadly, I had a good idea of what I was going about when I did this, and I've become pretty good at using region-related triggers since then, so hopefully this will help you similarly? I'm not as good as the other guy but I'll do my best. :p
Okay, in Trigger Editor, in my map's case, his example had me first set some global variables (in the same place you'd put a new trigger, rather than within the new trigger in local variables.) He used 'mid' to refer to the island, as in 'middle of map', and I'll stick with that for brevity.
The first global variable states that, initially, the player controlling the island is -1, meaning no player. The next one is a timer variable which allows for the existence of a new timer. The third is a timer variable which allows for there being no timer in existence. These are kind of like blocks that he used in building the trigger and I used in mimicking his superior skill. ;p (This is written as if I'm telling you to actually do these things, but I'm trying to describe how it was done. I don't expect you to actually recreate all this specifically, I'm just trying to show you what was done and how.)
With that done, there are three triggers to be created. The first one, in the case of Glory, is called "CC/Nex/Hatch Enter/Created." That's because I decided that, for a player to meaningfully control the island, they have to have a true base there. Otherwise there's no way to mine the nine rich mineral patches and two rich vespene geysers. It's a possible strategy to control the island militarily to prevent the other side from getting it while you annihilate their starting base, and I'm sure some people will try that, but I don't want that behavior to trigger the timer because if you're not exploiting the resources you're denying yourself the only real expansion spot there is on the map. There are a couple of tiny ones on each player's side of the river but they're tiny. One geyser and three rich mineral patches. Minuscule. The idea is to whet the player's appetite for the island, with its abundant riches.
Accordingly, my teacher started by making a trigger that created a timer, expiring in 20 minutes with all else remaining equal, when a Command Center, Nexus, or Hatchery was built or moved onto the island (in the case of CCs.) If the base's central building is ever destroyed or moved off the island, the timer dies instantly and the time spent holding the island no longer counts. It has to be seized all over again, with the timer resetting. It's not hard to do that; just tell it to kill the timer when the CC/Nex/Hatch either dies or is no longer in Region 001.
This is accomplished by, first, creating an event saying "any unit creates any unit with ability Any or behavior Any." Then you go down to Conditions and, first, set one that makes sure the created unit is within Region 001. It looks something like this:
(Created unit) is in Region 001 ==true
Then you create an Or condition beneath it; if the former condition returns true, then everything in the Or slot will become true. Make three conditions under Or specifying the three relevant unit types; Command Center, Nexus, and Hatchery. Something like this:
(Unit type of (created unit)) == Command Center
(Unit type of (created unit)) == Nexus
(Unit tyoe of (created unit)) == Hatchery
With that done, we now move on to Actions. First, an If-Then-Else which checks if enemies of the player trying to build have already built a central structure within the region. If the island is empty, the stuff under "Then" will occur. If the island has already been taken, the stuff under "Else" will occur.
Incidentally, I'm about to answer your question about how to exclude units. Under "If" you make an And logic condition, under which are a number of conditions checking for the presence of living Command Centers. Nexuses (Nexii?) or Hatcheries within Region 001 that are allied to the player's enemy. Here's an example of one:
(Number of Living Units (Command Center) in (units in Region 001 having alliance Enemy with player (Owner of (created unit)) matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden) with at most Any amount) owned by Any player matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden.
See the bits that say "Excluded"? In the editor, you can click on those to select and unselect unit types you want to be excluded from the trigger. Missile/Dead/Hidden are the default excluded unit types. You can check or uncheck them if you want, although I really think it's best to leave Dead checked... :p There's one of those strings per each type of central structure: CC, Nexus, Hatchery, Lair, and Hive.
Now we head down to the Then clause. This is what tells the game that the person who builds the structure is now the controller of the island, and to launch the timer. Under Then, create a variable like this:
Variable - Set Mid Controller, integer = (Owner of (created unit))
Below that, two Timer actions:
Timer - start Timer variable as a One shot timer that will expire in 1200.00 Game Time seconds
Timer - Create a timer window for Timer variable, with the title (("Player" + (Text(Mid Controller, integer))) + "has taken the island!"), using Remaining time (initially Visible)
Last, one like this:
Variable - Set Timer window = (Last created timer window)
Now we go down to Else. This tells the game that, if more than one player controls a central structure within Region 001, to reset the island's controller to -1 (nobody) and kill the timer, thus resetting the countdown. This prevents a scenario where both players try to hold the island at once (there's not really room... I don't think. But it's conceivably possible. So we want to prevent it within the trigger to avoid headaches. I'm sure you want the same thing to be true in yours.)
First, the variable:
Variable - Set Timer window = (Last created timer window)
Then the timer actions, one to pause the timer and one to destroy it.
That's it for the first trigger! Now, create an entirely new trigger called "Cancel timer." This is what will make the timer die if the central structure is destroyed or moved off the island.
Under Events, set it to go off when any unit dies. Next, you want the game to check and see if anyone is controlling the island at that moment, so you create three conditions:
Mid Controller, integer != -1
(Owner of (Triggering unit)) == Mid Controller, integer
And
Under And are a series of strings like this one:
(Number of Living units in (Command Center units in Region 001 owned by player Mid Controller, integer matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount)) == 0
Again, one for each type of central structure per race. Now we move on to actions. Time to make one variable and two timer actions:
Okay, now we're done with the second trigger. It's time to tell the game that when the timer expires naturally (after 20 minutes) it is to end the game with a victory for the island-controlling player. This one is shorter and simpler than the first two. It simply goes like this. Under events, select this one:
Timer - timer variable expires
Under Actions we tell the program to end the game with victory for the island's controller and defeat for the other player.
Player Group - Pick each player in (Active Players) and do (Actions)
Now, under the new Actions tab created by the above, is an If-Then-Else clause. Under If, we see the following:
(Picked player) == Mid Controller, integer
After that, we set Then:
Game - End game in Victory for player (Picked player) (Show dialogs, Show score screen)
Finally, we set Else:
Game - End game in Defeat for player (Picked player) (Show dialogs, Show score screen)
And that's it. Now we have a system in which if any player can build a central structure on the island, and keep it from being destroyed (or avoid moving it off to keep it from being destroyed or to exploit the lesser resource patches if you somehow use them all up on the island within 20 minutes and are a Terran player too lazy to build another CC I guess) they will automatically win the game without having to destroy the other player's base. This changes the strategy and tactics of the game considerably. Now, instead of just planning how to get into and destroy the enemy's base, you have to actively plan to either seize the island ASAP or build enough forces to keep the other guy off it until you're ready to take it yourself. And if the other guy does get it, you have to focus on getting him off instead of smashing his main base... Unless you decide to be sneaky and attack his main soon after he takes the island, since he'll likely be clustering his units around the island to keep you away... which will leave him unable to build much of any new units because there's almost no room to build much on the island which was thoroughly deliberate. That way people can't just take the island and cut their original base loose. They have to effectively defend -both- areas if they want to win.
Now, obviously, you're not going to want to do -exactly- the same thing with your map. You may want to allow the presence of any unit within the region to set off the timer instead of having to build a central structure. But I think you should be able to modify this framework to suit your purposes. If you need me to attach the map for you to look at, or for me to make you an example map which does more specifically what you're wanting to do, let me know and I'll do my best to help. I hope this book is at all useful. :p
Awww piss. That will require me to overcome my current utter incompetence when it comes to actors. I managed to figure out the trigger thing pretty quickly without needing to ask help with every tiny thing (though from my posts on this forum, it's pretty clear some stuff needed a boost from those with superior skills. :p) But whenever I've tried to mess with things involving actors I manage to create a huge mess. I think I still have four duplicates of one behavior from when I was trying to make a new unit off the basis of an existing one... e.e; Then again that was a day or two after I started mapmaking and I know a lot more about the editor now than I did then. Guess I'd better gird my loins for the descent into the underworld. LOL.
At least I know there's a quick, simple way to do it once I get my brain oriented to the task and stop tripping over it. Thank you!
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@zeldarules28: Go
That's exactly where I got stuck. I do NOT want the two units 'tethered' together like with Neural Parasite because what's going on biologically is very different. Instead of a temporary controlling of the target's mind, its whole biology is being reworked until, while it may resemble its original form in many ways, it's really a totally new organism. The transition into Infected Unit has to be instant and permanent while still allowing the Spore Cloud to move on and infect other targets.
Also, the player will only get one Spore Cloud ever, to get the game started. I'm thinking of having it die after, say, five minutes, to force the player to use other units so it won't be too easy. The Spore Cloud is meant to allow the player to snag a few Drones so they can start building and get the game going.
I'm going to have to create a whole set of units and structures for this... man, biiiig project. It'll be worth it though if I can pull this off. I love the idea of the Zerg getting overwhelmed from within by a totally unexpected assault from a life form SO similar to them... >D
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I never played Halo myself, but I'm on a website called Wajas which has a Flood Club inspired by the Halo Flood but tailored to the Wajas game, which I became involved with. Being now a high-ranking member of that club and obsessed with our version of the Flood, when I started playing SCII I noticed immediately the similarities between our version of the Flood, especially, and the Zerg. So ever since I've had a hankering to make a map about a Flood outbreak in the middle of a thoroughly Zerg-controlled world. My skills at mapmaking have advanced to the point where I feel up to tackling the challenge, but I still need a bit of help figuring out how to do a few things, at least in the most efficient way possible. I could probably BS a solution to these problems but I doubt it would be particularly elegant or effective compared to what you all can come up with.
Basically, here's how I want the map to work. You start out controlling a single unit, a Flood Spore Cloud. Flood Spore Clouds are an air unit, permanently cloaked and can move, but have no standard attack or weapon. Their one and only ability would be Infection - the targeted unit becomes an "Infected (unit)" and comes under your control. A Spore Cloud can use this ability repeatedly without dying, but if it's spotted by a detector and killed you're SOL unless you've infected a Drone.
Basically, it's Zerg vs. Zerg, but I want to give the Infected Zerg units some special abilities and make them more like Flood units - for example, Hydralisks become Ranged Forms, Ultralisks become Tank Forms, and so forth. The main thing stopping me right now is Infection, though. I tried to use Neural Parasite as a base for the ability but got lost very quickly LOL. Some guidance there would be highly appreciated. I'll post more questions as I move forward with the map but right now just solving the Infection thing would be very helpful.
Basically, I need Infection to do two things - cause the targeted unit to become the player's unit, and transform it into a different unit entirely, the Infected form of the unit. I was planning to make separate units to represent the infected Zerg so they could be different from normal Zerg in ways beyond cosmetic changes. If that won't work for some reason, alternatives would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!
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@Sixen: Go
So there is a way to do it, then? How would I go about that?
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@KnifeSmile: Go
Seriously, no one has even general advice about modifying the AI? Did I put this in the wrong forum or what?
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@starKidney: Go
I think you might be better off drawing a region with the tool rather than coding it, then using another trigger to make the region itself move. You'll have to start the region on the map well out of the way instead of off the map I believe, but that might help.
What exactly is supposed to happen if it were working correctly?
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I need to learn how to customize AI for a couple of maps I'm working on. Essentially, I want my maps to be fun whether you're playing with other people or playing against AI. The problem is, the default AI apparently can't handle my maps. It keeps doing stupid things like not using its base expansion points properly if at all, ignoring ramps (and thus not using them or anything the ramp allows access to) and not making intelligent use of the terrain. In fact it actively builds in such a way that the terrain is a detriment to its functioning. So I want to customize the AI so it's capable of functioning at least reasonably well on these maps. Specifically, I need to do the following things:
Is this something I would do with triggers or the data editor? If I've got this in the wrong forum, sorry about that. In any event, though, both general and specific information on editing the AI would be highly appreciated.
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There are quite a lot of things I'll be wanting to do. I don't even know everything I need to do yet. :p I'll just give an example of one I'm working on right now. The HoBG Ahroun unit needs to be able to cloak normally while in motion, and be totally undetectable even by detectors when not in motion. Both would be triggered with a button and drain energy.
Or, for another one, a LuRT Galliard unit would be able to "rescue" critters, turning them into allied units with their own abilities depending on what critter it is. And so on. This map is going to take a VERY long time to make. But it'll be worth it when it's done, at least for me. XD
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@atjov: Go
Believe me, I understand that. I'm not trying to tell you that you're doing something bad, per se. I'm just trying to let you know that it's probably not going to work out the way you want it to with just plain copy-pasting. On the other hand, if you've been working on this for three months, I don't understand why you don't have enough working familiarity with the editor to assemble that trigger. I'm pretty sure I could do it from that, and I've only been making maps a couple of weeks. Then again, I did find the editor more easy to intuitively grasp than a lot of people apparently do. If nobody else has done so in a few days, I'll take a stab at making an example map with that trigger for you. But after that, you're on your own as far as making it work on your own map. I don't know enough about your map to go any further.
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@Tekaichi: Go
Oh dear. I hope I don't manage to create four copies of the Attack action like I did last time I tried this... e.e; Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, anyhow. I'd feel more confident if I had more specific details, but it's okay. I know it's a pretty n00bish question.
And... yeah. I'm pretty sure I had figured that part out on my own. ;p It's okay if you don't know how to do it yourself, but all you have to do is say so. It's not like I know any more than you do when it comes to that.
Anyone with advice on creating custom units and custom unit abilities would be VERY appreciated and rewarded with as much testing time of their map(s) as they desire (or help on something they're struggling with, albeit it's unlikely that someone who knows how to do what I'm asking would ever require my meager skills.)
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Sorry, but even if someone did what you're asking for you, it wouldn't really work out the way you want it to. You can't just straight-up copy-paste this kind of thing. This is a list of instructions which shows you what it should look like in the editor when you get it correct. Even if someone makes a map for you with it all set up, and you copy-paste it into the map you're making, you're still going to have to have enough understanding of what you're doing to edit anything that needs editing to make it work on your particular map, as opposed to on the example map. You can't just copy this all into your own map and expect it to work. This relies on specific player numbers and suchlike which may or may not apply to your map the way you have it set up right now.
Honestly, I sympathize with your desire to have it all done for you. When I first started doing this a week or two ago I felt the same way sometimes. But I still put in the work to try to learn as much of the editor intuitively and through trial and error as I could. I only asked for help when nothing I tried was working. And even then, only once was I able to copy-paste what someone gave me. Even then I had to know how to create a region, link the trigger to the region, and do other kinds of changes to the copy-pasted trigger before it would work the way I wanted it to. The player giving me something to work on was VERY helpful and I couldn't have solved the problem without his help... but if I hadn't already known my way around the editor to a certain degree, I wouldn't have been able to do anything with what he gave me.
tl;dr I really hope you know how to use the editor and aren't thinking you can just copy-paste whatever's on the example map straight into your map without needing to change a single thing and have it work exactly how you want it to. Or, worse, that you aren't planning to just take the example map and edit it into being "your" map. It's not going to work the way you want it to either way. I would be -very- surprised if the above trigger would work if directly copy-pasted from an example map to another map without the other map being altered to fit the trigger's specifications. I'm relatively new to this myself but from what I know about triggers, that relies on you setting up other things outside the trigger itself for the trigger to reference. You'll need to make those as well or it will fail.
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I thought 'the end' was pretty obvious. :p You devour your own creator, then all other life on the planet, and end up a bloated God-Baneling. XD
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I've long been entertained by the idea of making 'Garou units'. Not necessarily with actual werewolf graphics, at least not right now, but units with abilities and properties appropriate to the Werewolf: the Apocalypse trope they represent. "Lupus" units will use the Predator model or other four-legged/wheeled things. "Homid" units will be humanoid units like marines, marauders, and suchlike. "Metis" units I haven't decided on yet... probably just everything that doesn't fit into the first two classifications unless there's some specific reason I feel like it would fit best as one of the first two. Auspice and tribal affiliations translate into the unit's powers and properties. Black Spiral Dancer units would allow any race to use Zerglike anti-enemy abilities like an equivalent of toxic creep or corruption. Fianna units would be able to cause enemy units to stop attacking and flee for, say, ten seconds, or buff their allies' attack temporarily with a "battle song". Galliard units might be able to "rescue" critters, turning them into allied combat units. Ragabash units might be able to cloak. Et cetera.
However, I've been having a lot of trouble figuring out how to create new units in general, and especially with custom abilities/behaviors. Any guidance in this regard would be really appreciated. Thank you!
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@Fen1kz: Go
In this particular case, I want the lava to be stationary. However, that's a very sneaky and nasty idea for Magmaze 2... essentially the premise is that in Magmaze, you're in the smaller, less dangerous upper levels of the lava tunnel system. But in Magmaze 2 you've moved deeper into the complex in search of both rich mineral deposits and to get to the McGuffin. If the McGuffin happens to be in a spot that is usually flooded with lava, and the lava only lowers every few minutes for maybe ten seconds... >D
Basically the idea is that the Terrans want to mine the place but have noticed that something else is up because the other two races seem to be after something other than resources, the Zerg want to find the McGuffin and use it, and the Protoss want to destroy the McGuffin before the 'evil' Zerg or the ignorant Terrans find it. I haven't decided on the exact nature of the McGuffin yet. But once I've done Magmaze 2 I'll be making subsequent 'what-if' scenario maps to continue the story, one for each possibility. Say the Zerg get there first and get hold of the McGuffin; that map will involve the Zerg scrambling to hold off the Protoss long enough get the McGuffin off-planet and the Protoss trying to destroy the McGuffin before the Zerg can get it out of there. If the Protoss get the McGuffin first, they'll have to hold the Zerg off long enough for them to destroy it (I'll make it something very durable so this is a decent amount of time to play the game in.) And if the Terrans find the McGuffin... I haven't decided whether to have them ally with the Protoss against the Zerg to hold the Zerg off while the Protoss destroy it, or have the Terrans piss off the Protoss by trying to use it themselves against the Zerg. So in that scenario you'd have the Terrans trying to wipe the Zerg off the planet while driving off Protoss surgical strikes aimed at destroying the McGuffin.
The only two maps I'd like to be directly connected are Magmaze and Magmaze 2 though. The 'third episode' of the story will have all the different maps above made, to represent all possible results of play on the first two maps, depending on what sounds most interesting to play through at the time. In short, I don't want there to be a "canon" ending; that is, whether the Zerg, Protoss, or Terrans 'officially' get it in the end. It's just meant to be a fun mini-campaign-type thing to play with.
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My map Glory to the Hogs uses a similar concept. The main way to beat the map is to seize the island in the middle of the river and hold it against the other player's attempts to take it from you (1v1 map) for 20 uninterrupted minutes. If you can keep the island for 20 minutes without losing it for even the briefest moment, you win. If you lose it, though, the timer dies and you have to start all over.
I had trouble figuring out how to do this myself, but I asked the fine people here and got a great suggestion. After very slight modification, for my purposes, this worked great. I expect a variant of it (in the area of what unit[s] trigger[s] the timer to begin) might work for your purposes.
I'm going to describe this in general terms first, because, like the person who helped me, I think you'll benefit more if I teach you how to fish rather than give you a fish. I may be weird, but I found the trigger editor fairly intuitive once I'd gotten an idea of what it could actually do and what each term like 'event' and 'action' meant specifically. If you're anything like me, the description should give you enough information to be able to figure out which specific events and actions and such I'm talking about by poking through the lists. I more or less BSed my way through learning the Map Editor that way. I ask questions only when I try to do something over and over in every way I can think of and it always totally fails. XD (And even then, once or twice, I figured it out while waiting for an answer.) Maybe my brain just works weirdly but I don't find the Map Editor to be especially counter-intuitive. It just takes a minute to adjust your brain to the paradigm. Or mine, anyway.
However, if this description doesn't work for you because unlike me you have a normal and healthy brain, you probably should check out my map and take a look at the code directly. The most useful responses I get here generally involve nice little map examples people throw together for me. I can do one for you if you want. But it'd probably also be good to look at Glory, because it's an example of the same general idea in a map meant to be played on and used.
I've got it uploaded to this site, and I'm pretty sure you can get at it from my forum profile. If not, just say so in your next reply (or PM me if you'd prefer; doesn't matter) and I'll attach my local copy to my next reply to you.
First, before anything else, obviously, I set up the map's terrain. Most importantly, I made the river with a deep, wandering cliff trench in the middle of the map. In the middle of that I raised the cliffs again, as high as they'll go in the center, making a sort of "mountain". Then, fish, trees,
mucho dinerolots of rich resources, and water. Voila: river with highly desirable island.Then I drew a region around the whole island (or, at least, the unit-accessible parts.) Region 001 = the island.
Now, to the trigger editor! Thanks to the astute guidance of someone here whose username slips my mind at the moment, sadly, I had a good idea of what I was going about when I did this, and I've become pretty good at using region-related triggers since then, so hopefully this will help you similarly? I'm not as good as the other guy but I'll do my best. :p
Okay, in Trigger Editor, in my map's case, his example had me first set some global variables (in the same place you'd put a new trigger, rather than within the new trigger in local variables.) He used 'mid' to refer to the island, as in 'middle of map', and I'll stick with that for brevity.
The first global variable states that, initially, the player controlling the island is -1, meaning no player. The next one is a timer variable which allows for the existence of a new timer. The third is a timer variable which allows for there being no timer in existence. These are kind of like blocks that he used in building the trigger and I used in mimicking his superior skill. ;p (This is written as if I'm telling you to actually do these things, but I'm trying to describe how it was done. I don't expect you to actually recreate all this specifically, I'm just trying to show you what was done and how.)
With that done, there are three triggers to be created. The first one, in the case of Glory, is called "CC/Nex/Hatch Enter/Created." That's because I decided that, for a player to meaningfully control the island, they have to have a true base there. Otherwise there's no way to mine the nine rich mineral patches and two rich vespene geysers. It's a possible strategy to control the island militarily to prevent the other side from getting it while you annihilate their starting base, and I'm sure some people will try that, but I don't want that behavior to trigger the timer because if you're not exploiting the resources you're denying yourself the only real expansion spot there is on the map. There are a couple of tiny ones on each player's side of the river but they're tiny. One geyser and three rich mineral patches. Minuscule. The idea is to whet the player's appetite for the island, with its abundant riches.
Accordingly, my teacher started by making a trigger that created a timer, expiring in 20 minutes with all else remaining equal, when a Command Center, Nexus, or Hatchery was built or moved onto the island (in the case of CCs.) If the base's central building is ever destroyed or moved off the island, the timer dies instantly and the time spent holding the island no longer counts. It has to be seized all over again, with the timer resetting. It's not hard to do that; just tell it to kill the timer when the CC/Nex/Hatch either dies or is no longer in Region 001.
This is accomplished by, first, creating an event saying "any unit creates any unit with ability Any or behavior Any." Then you go down to Conditions and, first, set one that makes sure the created unit is within Region 001. It looks something like this:
(Created unit) is in Region 001 ==true
Then you create an Or condition beneath it; if the former condition returns true, then everything in the Or slot will become true. Make three conditions under Or specifying the three relevant unit types; Command Center, Nexus, and Hatchery. Something like this:
(Unit type of (created unit)) == Command Center (Unit type of (created unit)) == Nexus (Unit tyoe of (created unit)) == Hatchery
With that done, we now move on to Actions. First, an If-Then-Else which checks if enemies of the player trying to build have already built a central structure within the region. If the island is empty, the stuff under "Then" will occur. If the island has already been taken, the stuff under "Else" will occur.
Incidentally, I'm about to answer your question about how to exclude units. Under "If" you make an And logic condition, under which are a number of conditions checking for the presence of living Command Centers. Nexuses (Nexii?) or Hatcheries within Region 001 that are allied to the player's enemy. Here's an example of one:
(Number of Living Units (Command Center) in (units in Region 001 having alliance Enemy with player (Owner of (created unit)) matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden) with at most Any amount) owned by Any player matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden.
See the bits that say "Excluded"? In the editor, you can click on those to select and unselect unit types you want to be excluded from the trigger. Missile/Dead/Hidden are the default excluded unit types. You can check or uncheck them if you want, although I really think it's best to leave Dead checked... :p There's one of those strings per each type of central structure: CC, Nexus, Hatchery, Lair, and Hive.
Now we head down to the Then clause. This is what tells the game that the person who builds the structure is now the controller of the island, and to launch the timer. Under Then, create a variable like this:
Variable - Set Mid Controller, integer = (Owner of (created unit))
Below that, two Timer actions:
Timer - start Timer variable as a One shot timer that will expire in 1200.00 Game Time seconds Timer - Create a timer window for Timer variable, with the title (("Player" + (Text(Mid Controller, integer))) + "has taken the island!"), using Remaining time (initially Visible)
Last, one like this:
Variable - Set Timer window = (Last created timer window)
Now we go down to Else. This tells the game that, if more than one player controls a central structure within Region 001, to reset the island's controller to -1 (nobody) and kill the timer, thus resetting the countdown. This prevents a scenario where both players try to hold the island at once (there's not really room... I don't think. But it's conceivably possible. So we want to prevent it within the trigger to avoid headaches. I'm sure you want the same thing to be true in yours.)
First, the variable:
Variable - Set Timer window = (Last created timer window)
Then the timer actions, one to pause the timer and one to destroy it.
That's it for the first trigger! Now, create an entirely new trigger called "Cancel timer." This is what will make the timer die if the central structure is destroyed or moved off the island.
Under Events, set it to go off when any unit dies. Next, you want the game to check and see if anyone is controlling the island at that moment, so you create three conditions:
Mid Controller, integer != -1 (Owner of (Triggering unit)) == Mid Controller, integer And
Under And are a series of strings like this one:
(Number of Living units in (Command Center units in Region 001 owned by player Mid Controller, integer matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount)) == 0
Again, one for each type of central structure per race. Now we move on to actions. Time to make one variable and two timer actions:
Variable - Set Mid Controller, integer = -1 Timer - Pause Timer variable Timer - Destroy Timer variable
Okay, now we're done with the second trigger. It's time to tell the game that when the timer expires naturally (after 20 minutes) it is to end the game with a victory for the island-controlling player. This one is shorter and simpler than the first two. It simply goes like this. Under events, select this one:
Timer - timer variable expires
Under Actions we tell the program to end the game with victory for the island's controller and defeat for the other player.
Player Group - Pick each player in (Active Players) and do (Actions)
Now, under the new Actions tab created by the above, is an If-Then-Else clause. Under If, we see the following:
(Picked player) == Mid Controller, integer
After that, we set Then:
Game - End game in Victory for player (Picked player) (Show dialogs, Show score screen)
Finally, we set Else:
Game - End game in Defeat for player (Picked player) (Show dialogs, Show score screen)
And that's it. Now we have a system in which if any player can build a central structure on the island, and keep it from being destroyed (or avoid moving it off to keep it from being destroyed or to exploit the lesser resource patches if you somehow use them all up on the island within 20 minutes and are a Terran player too lazy to build another CC I guess) they will automatically win the game without having to destroy the other player's base. This changes the strategy and tactics of the game considerably. Now, instead of just planning how to get into and destroy the enemy's base, you have to actively plan to either seize the island ASAP or build enough forces to keep the other guy off it until you're ready to take it yourself. And if the other guy does get it, you have to focus on getting him off instead of smashing his main base... Unless you decide to be sneaky and attack his main soon after he takes the island, since he'll likely be clustering his units around the island to keep you away... which will leave him unable to build much of any new units because there's almost no room to build much on the island which was thoroughly deliberate. That way people can't just take the island and cut their original base loose. They have to effectively defend -both- areas if they want to win.
Now, obviously, you're not going to want to do -exactly- the same thing with your map. You may want to allow the presence of any unit within the region to set off the timer instead of having to build a central structure. But I think you should be able to modify this framework to suit your purposes. If you need me to attach the map for you to look at, or for me to make you an example map which does more specifically what you're wanting to do, let me know and I'll do my best to help. I hope this book is at all useful. :p
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Awww piss. That will require me to overcome my current utter incompetence when it comes to actors. I managed to figure out the trigger thing pretty quickly without needing to ask help with every tiny thing (though from my posts on this forum, it's pretty clear some stuff needed a boost from those with superior skills. :p) But whenever I've tried to mess with things involving actors I manage to create a huge mess. I think I still have four duplicates of one behavior from when I was trying to make a new unit off the basis of an existing one... e.e; Then again that was a day or two after I started mapmaking and I know a lot more about the editor now than I did then. Guess I'd better gird my loins for the descent into the underworld. LOL.
At least I know there's a quick, simple way to do it once I get my brain oriented to the task and stop tripping over it. Thank you!