Look at the requirements for the achievements Rodrigo posted... Apart from the first one, all of them are impossible to get with a crappy map (unless you have about 5000 people willing to play the map just so you get the achievements).
And if you are worried about noobs making crap maps just for achievs, have the achivements give no points - im pretty sure people would play an easy coop vs AI for some achievements rather than make map in the editor, which has already proved is not newb-friendly, for achievements which give no points anyway and probably arent easy to get...
Here are a few of my ideas, didnt know what to call the achievements, and the first one's more of a joke...
Have a map have less than 3 games per hour for over a week:
"Achievement awarded: I hate the effing popularity system."
Make a map with the maximum filesize and/or with one/multiple mods attached to it also at maximum filesize
"Achievement awarded: Get a life." lol, jk. Dunno what to call it, but it deserves a portrait. If the filesize is over 70ish% imports only it shouldn't count (you could just import stuff and do nothing and get the achievement...) or if the imports arent used in the map.
Fill all your upload slots and over 50% of the space.
"Achievement awarded: Hardcore mapper"
I think keeping the in-between missions area would be better. Yes, if you look at the hyperion its got craploads of triggers that are a crapload of work...
BUT, first of all, you dont need to actually have all those characters AND remember, you make those triggers progressively. You'll probably just need to make a couple of triggers first for the halos and loading the banks and the interfaces, and after that you just add a couple of triggers after each mission you make. I don't think it's that much work, or at least not as much as it seems.
And you could also keep it simple by just making it a protoss base on some planet/spacestation/Whatever, and not add any rooms but just have the forge for unit upgrades, a nexus, pylon or the voidseeker isntead of the starmap, some random protoss guy for mercenaries (or a computer connected to the hyperion if you're gonna use any of the ideas for mercenaries that involve Raynor), a cyber-core for research, and have Zeratul standing somewhere to give you updates on the story (or just have him stand somewhere and do nothinhg or walk over to whatever object you click)
And @ your comment at the trigger things
I know how to do abilities in triggers in WC3, but every attempt so far in the GE failed, lol. So i was forced to learn to use the data editor, which i find simple enough but just time consuming. If you need any complex abilities, i think i can do a lot of stuff, but i can't do anything advanced with actors :/
Dark toss arent necesarily evil :p look at Zeratul
But what i meant is not that you choose to convert a unit, but like in the WoL campaign, almost every mission you get a new unit. First it was marines, next it was medics, etc. Do the same here, just that instead of getting a specific unit, you can choose whether you want the dark or normal version of it (and then you stick to that version for the rest of the game). Kinda like the choice between spectres and ghosts...
and you don't have to do that for every mission - there are some units that simply don't exist as dark, or some you just don't have to offer. Also, maybe make a choice between HT's and DT's - then give DT's some badass upgrades that can be bought to make them worth it.
And i just got an idea for research... Again, tehre are Dark and normal toss. have 1 Dark tree and 1 Normal tree (like there are toss and zerg trees in teh WoL campaign), then you gain research points for helping certain tribes, or maybe even get research points for using certain units (lets say you warp in 10 DTs in one mission = 1 dark research point (only triggered once, 20 DTs wont give you more points))
Have the dark tree specialize in stuff like cloaking and damage, and the other tree in other stuff
as for currency... I have a kind of idea... Lets say if you choose to have Zeratul as your main guy (like raynor in WoL), lets say that lore wise instead of warping units in from Shakuras, you get them from a place of your own.
Now, logically seen you need a power source, right? And the bigger and more upgraded units are, the more power you would need to warp, right? So just instead of using an actual currency, make it like warp-power capacity, which is increased by some crystals that you gain during missions (people who "hired" you give them to you, etc.). Then for mercs, you can use other tribes, but they'll want the crystals, and if you're gonna use Raynor (which is a great idea) you give him the crystals so that he can power the hyperion (and give stetman something to do)
Also, another idea i had, which is a mix of the raynor and other tribe idea for mercs... Have toss units with some terran technology. Zealot with the firebat attack? DT's with Jetpacks? Stalkers with... uh... no idea for stalkers... Siege mode immortals?
Also, if ya need help, i'll try and do stuff with ya :) Can't promise too much time, but i'll definitely jump in for story-writing, and maybe some data or trigger work (preferably triggers), if you wanna know how good im with data, DL and play my map (danger - could be buggy) Gates of Darkness, or just check out the data editor after DLing it.
Reason i want triggers is because i find them easier and less time consuming than the data editor xD
Since there are "Dark Protoss" models, you could kind of make 2 variations for missions where you choose between the normal and dark toss (Like the mission where you choose Tosh/Spectres or Nova/Ghosts) and will then be using the either normal or dark version of the unit that was unlocked depending on your choice for the rest of the campaign. You'll have to do something to make a difference between those units though
Maybe make "Dark Zealots" instead of having charge, have something like a 3 second cloaking effect, make the dark stalker do more damage but have less health, have the Dark Sentry and Dark HT have different spells, etc.
You can basically keep the concept of the armory, just convert it to protoss upgrades.
Mercs... Now that one is hard :/ Maybe if you use my idea of choosing between dark and normal units, allow the other type to be warped in just like Mercenaries in campaign with large cooldowns and limited uses?
For Research.... hmmm... I guess you could still keep the research thing, but i dont know how to convert it to fit protoss... I mean, for zerg you could make it that you acquire DNA during missions and can evolve that way, yada yada, but toss... Seriously no idea.
Here are some random ideas for upgrades/Researches:
Warp Prism - Power field increases to that of a pylon and/or let it generate power while moving
Make Warpgates an upgrade you have to buy (do that for most of the stuff that's researched in-game. Blink, charge, Storm, etc.)
Stalker - Increased damage vs Armored and/or longer range and/or increased health
Zealot - Charge, and i dont know how to do this, but lorewise zealots become immortals after dying, right? So, like the "immortality protocol" for the thor, make something similar for zealots and immortals. Or that you can only build immortals after you lose zealots (so each zealot you use = 1 immortal you can build)
Nexus - Power field? AoE Chrono boost?
Also saving to at least two DIFFERENT files. Or you're going to end up with a crash that corrupts it and you'll be back at zero.
You're still underestimating the instability of the GE.
You can go to preferences and make it auto-save backups every time you save (You can also put in a minimum amount of time needed between backup saves and maximum number of backups you want to keep, so that you dont have 5 billion map files in the end), and you can also turn on the auto-save function which will save every X minutes.
Also, stay away from the upgrades tab... Apart from being slow, it keeps crashing. I actually got it to crash because my mouse went over the "Loot" (or something similar) in the dropdown menu (didnt select or anything, mouse passes over, editor freezes, 30 seconds later i get the error report...)
And yea... save, save, save, save, save, save, and did i mention save?
I dont think you can restore your map though... never ended up with temp files :/ And i already have about 15 different map files, plus about 6 more here on mapster and 5 auto-backups... So yea, keep backups. I know i had the problem where it croaked while saving (was trying out the smaller map files thingy instead of faster saves) and it crashed and i had to find a backup since it was corrupted...
I think that trigger might cause lag that way... Why not simply use the event "Unit acquires targe", condition "Unit type of (triggering unit) == Sentry", and then order the triggering unit to cast guardian shield? That way everytime the sentry targets anything it will use guardian shield. Also, i believe that when ordering units, there's the option to "Replace existing commands" or something like that, click on it and set it to "Before current commands" or whatever it is called, that way it wont replace the attack command but qeue the attack command behind it. If that wont work, just add the attack action after the guardian shield action and make it "After existing orders", or whatever its called, if possible
I could really use some proper feedback on my map "Gates of Darkness", it jumped to the top of page 2 of the custom maps list in the last 3 days (It was public so that my friends could test it without me playing as well since i didnt have time, and all of a sudden its up there and unfinished! lol), so if you dont mind to play it... 6 players prefferably, also i need feedback on "The Engineer" Specifically, since i never tested him out and have no idea whether he can survive at all, lol.
Also, if you guys somehow know how to add skype calls to the stream (or any other program) i can cast with you guys as well if you want, and if it won't kill my FPS i can record the stream with our casts and upload them to the intostarcraft channel on youtube.
For other maps... Haven't play many to be honest, apart from the top of the list ones like nexus wars, income wars...
Oh yea, Macro-Micro. Its somewhere on the second-third page, but i like the idea of it. One player macroes up while 3 others use the units the first one makes (2 teams like that) and then they have to kill each other. If you're gonna play that, may i ask to be on your team and the macro guy? You won't regret it, lol
Isn't there a "cost" field somewhere in the weapon or effect tab? Set energy to 1 there and it will most probably drain 1 energy per shot... Not sure whether that field is there though, dont have the editor open right now...
For the multiple weapons thing... you'll need to make an ability that applies a behavior, and a behavior at which under the modifications field you go to "weapons", add a weapon to the "weapon" field, and add the weapon your character is using normally to the "Weapons - disabled" field. This will add the weapon and disable the previous weapon. You'll also have to set the commands of the ability so taht you can turn it off. dont know how to do that exactly, just open the ghost - cloak ability and see how that one does it.
Basically what Schwick said, but since you're using a weapon that already exists, just also create a "Set" effect, add the "Apply Behavior" for the DOT and add whatever the impact effect for the weapon is into the set. Then change the impact effect of the missile to the newly created Set effect. This will make it apply both effects upon impact, one of them doing what the weapon did till now, the other one adding a (de)buff that deals damage over time.
"Another problem about balancing the map is that I actually designed it to be beatable solo, but in multiplayer you obviously have 2 players on each lane, so I'd have to double the hit points on all the waves for it to be a challenge in that regard. So it's either too easy for multiplayer or too hard for single player."
Create a behavior to change the units life and shield fraction to 2 (Doubling its health)
Then make a trigger check whether number of players in (active players) is greater than 1, and if yes, apply the buff to the units (You can add this to the trigger that spawns units, or just make an additional trigger with the "unit is created" event, and have a condition make sure the owner of the unit is the player that units spawn for). you can also make it lane specific if you create player groups.
Stumbled upon this topic, havent actually played the map, but thought i'd give you this tip... Hope i helped :)
TheWatcher.477 - EU
Will test maps, and also have maps that need testing (My own maps being tested might be casted and put on a youtube channel)
Can also make videos of other people's maps (will need a replay of the map though, unless i know how to play the map really good myself so that i can record it the way its supposed to be played)
I dont actually have an answer for this, but i would presume the weapon range would be measured from the point the weapon fires from (the battlecruiser fires from somewhere around the center i believe, while the mothership fires from those discs on its outer edge
And the units sight would i think be measured from its center
If ur using a trigger, cant you just make an If/then/else action that checks whether you clicked a unit? If you didnt click a unit, it orders move, and if you did, it orders attack? And since the "attack" would then always be directed at a unit, it will also move to another unit if you're already attacking one (since you're not attack moving but focus-firing, kinda)
0
Look at the requirements for the achievements Rodrigo posted... Apart from the first one, all of them are impossible to get with a crappy map (unless you have about 5000 people willing to play the map just so you get the achievements).
And if you are worried about noobs making crap maps just for achievs, have the achivements give no points - im pretty sure people would play an easy coop vs AI for some achievements rather than make map in the editor, which has already proved is not newb-friendly, for achievements which give no points anyway and probably arent easy to get...
0
Seriously, why dont they?
Here are a few of my ideas, didnt know what to call the achievements, and the first one's more of a joke...
Have a map have less than 3 games per hour for over a week:
"Achievement awarded: I hate the effing popularity system."
Make a map with the maximum filesize and/or with one/multiple mods attached to it also at maximum filesize
"Achievement awarded: Get a life." lol, jk. Dunno what to call it, but it deserves a portrait. If the filesize is over 70ish% imports only it shouldn't count (you could just import stuff and do nothing and get the achievement...) or if the imports arent used in the map.
Fill all your upload slots and over 50% of the space.
"Achievement awarded: Hardcore mapper"
0
I think keeping the in-between missions area would be better. Yes, if you look at the hyperion its got craploads of triggers that are a crapload of work...
BUT, first of all, you dont need to actually have all those characters AND remember, you make those triggers progressively. You'll probably just need to make a couple of triggers first for the halos and loading the banks and the interfaces, and after that you just add a couple of triggers after each mission you make. I don't think it's that much work, or at least not as much as it seems.
And you could also keep it simple by just making it a protoss base on some planet/spacestation/Whatever, and not add any rooms but just have the forge for unit upgrades, a nexus, pylon or the voidseeker isntead of the starmap, some random protoss guy for mercenaries (or a computer connected to the hyperion if you're gonna use any of the ideas for mercenaries that involve Raynor), a cyber-core for research, and have Zeratul standing somewhere to give you updates on the story (or just have him stand somewhere and do nothinhg or walk over to whatever object you click)
And @ your comment at the trigger things
I know how to do abilities in triggers in WC3, but every attempt so far in the GE failed, lol. So i was forced to learn to use the data editor, which i find simple enough but just time consuming. If you need any complex abilities, i think i can do a lot of stuff, but i can't do anything advanced with actors :/
0
Dark toss arent necesarily evil :p look at Zeratul
But what i meant is not that you choose to convert a unit, but like in the WoL campaign, almost every mission you get a new unit. First it was marines, next it was medics, etc. Do the same here, just that instead of getting a specific unit, you can choose whether you want the dark or normal version of it (and then you stick to that version for the rest of the game). Kinda like the choice between spectres and ghosts...
and you don't have to do that for every mission - there are some units that simply don't exist as dark, or some you just don't have to offer. Also, maybe make a choice between HT's and DT's - then give DT's some badass upgrades that can be bought to make them worth it.
And i just got an idea for research... Again, tehre are Dark and normal toss. have 1 Dark tree and 1 Normal tree (like there are toss and zerg trees in teh WoL campaign), then you gain research points for helping certain tribes, or maybe even get research points for using certain units (lets say you warp in 10 DTs in one mission = 1 dark research point (only triggered once, 20 DTs wont give you more points))
Have the dark tree specialize in stuff like cloaking and damage, and the other tree in other stuff
as for currency... I have a kind of idea... Lets say if you choose to have Zeratul as your main guy (like raynor in WoL), lets say that lore wise instead of warping units in from Shakuras, you get them from a place of your own.
Now, logically seen you need a power source, right? And the bigger and more upgraded units are, the more power you would need to warp, right? So just instead of using an actual currency, make it like warp-power capacity, which is increased by some crystals that you gain during missions (people who "hired" you give them to you, etc.). Then for mercs, you can use other tribes, but they'll want the crystals, and if you're gonna use Raynor (which is a great idea) you give him the crystals so that he can power the hyperion (and give stetman something to do)
Also, another idea i had, which is a mix of the raynor and other tribe idea for mercs... Have toss units with some terran technology. Zealot with the firebat attack? DT's with Jetpacks? Stalkers with... uh... no idea for stalkers... Siege mode immortals?
Also, if ya need help, i'll try and do stuff with ya :) Can't promise too much time, but i'll definitely jump in for story-writing, and maybe some data or trigger work (preferably triggers), if you wanna know how good im with data, DL and play my map (danger - could be buggy) Gates of Darkness, or just check out the data editor after DLing it.
Reason i want triggers is because i find them easier and less time consuming than the data editor xD
0
Since there are "Dark Protoss" models, you could kind of make 2 variations for missions where you choose between the normal and dark toss (Like the mission where you choose Tosh/Spectres or Nova/Ghosts) and will then be using the either normal or dark version of the unit that was unlocked depending on your choice for the rest of the campaign. You'll have to do something to make a difference between those units though
Maybe make "Dark Zealots" instead of having charge, have something like a 3 second cloaking effect, make the dark stalker do more damage but have less health, have the Dark Sentry and Dark HT have different spells, etc.
You can basically keep the concept of the armory, just convert it to protoss upgrades.
Mercs... Now that one is hard :/ Maybe if you use my idea of choosing between dark and normal units, allow the other type to be warped in just like Mercenaries in campaign with large cooldowns and limited uses?
For Research.... hmmm... I guess you could still keep the research thing, but i dont know how to convert it to fit protoss... I mean, for zerg you could make it that you acquire DNA during missions and can evolve that way, yada yada, but toss... Seriously no idea.
Here are some random ideas for upgrades/Researches:
Warp Prism - Power field increases to that of a pylon and/or let it generate power while moving
Make Warpgates an upgrade you have to buy (do that for most of the stuff that's researched in-game. Blink, charge, Storm, etc.)
Stalker - Increased damage vs Armored and/or longer range and/or increased health
Zealot - Charge, and i dont know how to do this, but lorewise zealots become immortals after dying, right? So, like the "immortality protocol" for the thor, make something similar for zealots and immortals. Or that you can only build immortals after you lose zealots (so each zealot you use = 1 immortal you can build)
Nexus - Power field? AoE Chrono boost?
I'll think of more and edit or post again.
0
You can go to preferences and make it auto-save backups every time you save (You can also put in a minimum amount of time needed between backup saves and maximum number of backups you want to keep, so that you dont have 5 billion map files in the end), and you can also turn on the auto-save function which will save every X minutes.
Also, stay away from the upgrades tab... Apart from being slow, it keeps crashing. I actually got it to crash because my mouse went over the "Loot" (or something similar) in the dropdown menu (didnt select or anything, mouse passes over, editor freezes, 30 seconds later i get the error report...)
And yea... save, save, save, save, save, save, and did i mention save?
I dont think you can restore your map though... never ended up with temp files :/ And i already have about 15 different map files, plus about 6 more here on mapster and 5 auto-backups... So yea, keep backups. I know i had the problem where it croaked while saving (was trying out the smaller map files thingy instead of faster saves) and it crashed and i had to find a backup since it was corrupted...
0
I think that trigger might cause lag that way... Why not simply use the event "Unit acquires targe", condition "Unit type of (triggering unit) == Sentry", and then order the triggering unit to cast guardian shield? That way everytime the sentry targets anything it will use guardian shield. Also, i believe that when ordering units, there's the option to "Replace existing commands" or something like that, click on it and set it to "Before current commands" or whatever it is called, that way it wont replace the attack command but qeue the attack command behind it. If that wont work, just add the attack action after the guardian shield action and make it "After existing orders", or whatever its called, if possible
Hope what i said made sense and helped :)
0
I could really use some proper feedback on my map "Gates of Darkness", it jumped to the top of page 2 of the custom maps list in the last 3 days (It was public so that my friends could test it without me playing as well since i didnt have time, and all of a sudden its up there and unfinished! lol), so if you dont mind to play it... 6 players prefferably, also i need feedback on "The Engineer" Specifically, since i never tested him out and have no idea whether he can survive at all, lol.
Also, if you guys somehow know how to add skype calls to the stream (or any other program) i can cast with you guys as well if you want, and if it won't kill my FPS i can record the stream with our casts and upload them to the intostarcraft channel on youtube.
For other maps... Haven't play many to be honest, apart from the top of the list ones like nexus wars, income wars...
Oh yea, Macro-Micro. Its somewhere on the second-third page, but i like the idea of it. One player macroes up while 3 others use the units the first one makes (2 teams like that) and then they have to kill each other. If you're gonna play that, may i ask to be on your team and the macro guy? You won't regret it, lol
0
Isn't there a "cost" field somewhere in the weapon or effect tab? Set energy to 1 there and it will most probably drain 1 energy per shot... Not sure whether that field is there though, dont have the editor open right now...
For the multiple weapons thing... you'll need to make an ability that applies a behavior, and a behavior at which under the modifications field you go to "weapons", add a weapon to the "weapon" field, and add the weapon your character is using normally to the "Weapons - disabled" field. This will add the weapon and disable the previous weapon. You'll also have to set the commands of the ability so taht you can turn it off. dont know how to do that exactly, just open the ghost - cloak ability and see how that one does it.
cant help with 3rd
0
Basically what Schwick said, but since you're using a weapon that already exists, just also create a "Set" effect, add the "Apply Behavior" for the DOT and add whatever the impact effect for the weapon is into the set. Then change the impact effect of the missile to the newly created Set effect. This will make it apply both effects upon impact, one of them doing what the weapon did till now, the other one adding a (de)buff that deals damage over time.
0
@ProxyTooMuch: Go
"Another problem about balancing the map is that I actually designed it to be beatable solo, but in multiplayer you obviously have 2 players on each lane, so I'd have to double the hit points on all the waves for it to be a challenge in that regard. So it's either too easy for multiplayer or too hard for single player."
Create a behavior to change the units life and shield fraction to 2 (Doubling its health)
Then make a trigger check whether number of players in (active players) is greater than 1, and if yes, apply the buff to the units (You can add this to the trigger that spawns units, or just make an additional trigger with the "unit is created" event, and have a condition make sure the owner of the unit is the player that units spawn for). you can also make it lane specific if you create player groups.
Stumbled upon this topic, havent actually played the map, but thought i'd give you this tip... Hope i helped :)
0
TheWatcher.477 - EU
Will test maps, and also have maps that need testing (My own maps being tested might be casted and put on a youtube channel)
Can also make videos of other people's maps (will need a replay of the map though, unless i know how to play the map really good myself so that i can record it the way its supposed to be played)
channel im talking about is www.youtube.com/user/intostarcraft
0
I dont actually have an answer for this, but i would presume the weapon range would be measured from the point the weapon fires from (the battlecruiser fires from somewhere around the center i believe, while the mothership fires from those discs on its outer edge
And the units sight would i think be measured from its center
0
@threeleven: Go
If ur using a trigger, cant you just make an If/then/else action that checks whether you clicked a unit? If you didnt click a unit, it orders move, and if you did, it orders attack? And since the "attack" would then always be directed at a unit, it will also move to another unit if you're already attacking one (since you're not attack moving but focus-firing, kinda)
0
Find the actor of the doodad, and then modify the "Scale" field :)