Well, who told you you could use it to record detailed player stats? It's not really gamebreaking. It's just something you can't do with SC2. And there's plenty of it. Not having a shared top score feature won't destroy your map. Not that I'm happy with the limitation, but we need to use what we have. And we need to use it to the greatest extend.
So we can basically do anything with Galaxy Editor, but we can't save detailed stats (think of RPGs with multiple characters saved) or implement some sort of intelligent shared "database" spread by players across the map?
This sounds like a major design flaw to me, unless Blizzard only thought of turret defenses and DotA clones as custom maps. This is way more restricting than the 10mb limit (which will be raised soon anyway imho)
well, I'm quite positive my beta phase 2 games loaded even 6 / 7 x 3.4Kb saves without crashing :|
Also, weird thing is Nagrand was featured on EU for a whole week and I haven't seen a single crash with the previous savefile structure (which took around 1.7 Kb) even in full premade games with 10 .sc2banks to load. I only applied minor changes since then, like moving strings around and merging them within very reasonable limits, and it doesn't load anymore after porting it to NA.
Anyway, 800 bytes aren't really enough if you are saving detailed player stats or trying to implement a shared top scores feature, even if you compress everything into a single huge string (which you can't do actually, since maps can only read up to 6xx characters from a single string and the rest is ignored).
Since my map has a quite complex Top20 ranking system in place (with 8 values for each record) and needs to store a lot of data, I've been strugglig with savefiles since May. I'm baffled at how everyone is criticizing the low size limit for maps themselves but there aren't many topics (if any) about how retardedly small Banks are!
At first it was 80 keys max, then it became 50, then we found out that Banks couldn't exceed 4 Kb in beta phase 2. Please note I'm using efficient compression algorhytms to save dozens of integers and string values on a single key already. Well, with yesterday I had to reset all players' stats four times now because the map refused to load as soon as too many (6+) tried to load their own in lobbies.
Brace for the lastest discovery, which seems to be that the combined amount of .sc2banks loaded cannot exceed 8 Kb or something close.
I can load a 7Kb Bank just fine, I can't load two 4.5Kb Banks.
5 players can load 1.6Kb Banks, 6 can NOT.
Really. Come on. 8 Kb?!
Assuming you created a 10-players-max custom and don't want your players to crash if everyone has played it at least once, well, good luck trying to store everything in 800 BYTES.
Nonsense. If anyone came up with different results, please tell because I'm pretty sure I had 3.5Kb Banks in beta phase 2 and everything was good even with 6 "veterans" in lobbies. Now, that would just crash :|
Excellent point there S3rius, didn't know you could use constants as length-definitions of arrays in Galaxy. I suggested that myself on the official forums before I started using arrays of struct (Record) in the form of P[n].variable to organize data :)
Vjeux isn't exactly correct, there are indeed quite a few things that cannot be done in GUI, but only in custom script. Some of these things are just small inconveniences, others could sometimes be very annoying (e.g. not being able to dynamically add new events to a trigger in GUI).
Also, once you got the hang of it, it is much easier to work with it. You can write triggers faster than you could ever do in GUI, because you don't have to click yourself through a ton of windows, prompts or lists. You'll also have much less trouble reading your triggers.
Last but not least you can make your script more efficient than with GUI. The difference isn't too great and most of the time you won't notice it at all. Still, from time to time it could help you.
I think you should consider learning scripting if:
You already have experience in languages like Java, Action Script, C+ +, etc. In this case learning SC2's scripting language will be pretty easy.
You know that you will be working with the Galaxy Editor for years to come and if you're a good learner. Even for someone without knowledge of other programming languages Custom Script is pretty easy to learn. You just need to be a logical thinker. But it isn't really worth the time if you'll stick with the editor for just a month or two.
I disagree completely here.
These "things you can only do in Galaxy" are just elitist myths so far. I mean, okay dynamically adding new events to triggers is one, but you can always obtain the same results within the GUI - just in a different way - without the code being any less efficient if you do things properly. We are being a bit obscure here so if you have any good exemples we can confront them, but think for a moment about what C actually does stack-wise in these triggers and loops... the difference usually isn't that great, and any map worrying about bad execution performances is seriously fuck*d up somewhere :)
About writing faster... meh, no. If you actually use both shortcuts and the search field (already knowing the functions, that is) the GUI is extremely fast and comfortable, unless you are able to code < pick each unit - if this - do something on them > loops in 10 seconds, also you have a MUCH clearer and coherent vision of the map/code structure itself when you need to change something later whether you commented your lines or not.
I don't normally mind writing raw code, I actually like doing that outside SC2, but to any new mapmaker I would recommend sticking with the GUI and only stop from time to time to learn (well, you are halfway there if your know C or Java) how the same thing is done in Galaxy just in case you really need it some day.
Yeah... if Blizzcon contest judges actually have any clue about what's happening on Battle.Net (or read their own blog thread) your map won't be eligible I'm afraid.
Also, everyone not creating singleplayer maps, TDs or something with DotA in its name is struggling hard with popularity right now. This comes from a mapmaker seeing his map fall from 7400 games/day (10-minutes B.Net glitch showing real popularity for Featured maps) to page 9 within two days just because it required more and dedicated players than some regular dumb "Whatever" Wars.
Just keep updating your map like we are all doing, some better system will come soon :)
I'm from EU so that doesn't really bother me, but removing it is pointless imho.
Tbh, not a single submitted UMS was even eligible for the Blizzard contest since they want fresh unpublished maps.
Don't get me wrong, I think the contest is a great idea, but delaying the deadline twice to have more entries sounds annoying for those mostly interested to experienced feedback rather than the prize itself. I sure was.
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All this, and you were testing locally? :P
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So we can basically do anything with Galaxy Editor, but we can't save detailed stats (think of RPGs with multiple characters saved) or implement some sort of intelligent shared "database" spread by players across the map?
This sounds like a major design flaw to me, unless Blizzard only thought of turret defenses and DotA clones as custom maps. This is way more restricting than the 10mb limit (which will be raised soon anyway imho)
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well, I'm quite positive my beta phase 2 games loaded even 6 / 7 x 3.4Kb saves without crashing :|
Also, weird thing is Nagrand was featured on EU for a whole week and I haven't seen a single crash with the previous savefile structure (which took around 1.7 Kb) even in full premade games with 10 .sc2banks to load. I only applied minor changes since then, like moving strings around and merging them within very reasonable limits, and it doesn't load anymore after porting it to NA.
Anyway, 800 bytes aren't really enough if you are saving detailed player stats or trying to implement a shared top scores feature, even if you compress everything into a single huge string (which you can't do actually, since maps can only read up to 6xx characters from a single string and the rest is ignored).
This nonsense is absolutely gamebreaking.
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Since my map has a quite complex Top20 ranking system in place (with 8 values for each record) and needs to store a lot of data, I've been strugglig with savefiles since May. I'm baffled at how everyone is criticizing the low size limit for maps themselves but there aren't many topics (if any) about how retardedly small Banks are!
At first it was 80 keys max, then it became 50, then we found out that Banks couldn't exceed 4 Kb in beta phase 2. Please note I'm using efficient compression algorhytms to save dozens of integers and string values on a single key already. Well, with yesterday I had to reset all players' stats four times now because the map refused to load as soon as too many (6+) tried to load their own in lobbies.
Brace for the lastest discovery, which seems to be that
the combined amount of .sc2banks loaded cannot exceed 8 Kb or something close.
I can load a 7Kb Bank just fine, I can't load two 4.5Kb Banks.
5 players can load 1.6Kb Banks, 6 can NOT.
Really. Come on. 8 Kb?!
Assuming you created a 10-players-max custom and don't want your players to crash if everyone has played it at least once, well, good luck trying to store everything in 800 BYTES.
Nonsense. If anyone came up with different results, please tell because I'm pretty sure I had 3.5Kb Banks in beta phase 2 and everything was good even with 6 "veterans" in lobbies. Now, that would just crash :|
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If the limit for a single map is still 10 MB, I'm not impressed.
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Excellent point there S3rius, didn't know you could use constants as length-definitions of arrays in Galaxy. I suggested that myself on the official forums before I started using arrays of struct (Record) in the form of P[n].variable to organize data :)
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Oh no, they aren't the same. They get worse with every version.
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I disagree completely here.
These "things you can only do in Galaxy" are just elitist myths so far. I mean, okay dynamically adding new events to triggers is one, but you can always obtain the same results within the GUI - just in a different way - without the code being any less efficient if you do things properly. We are being a bit obscure here so if you have any good exemples we can confront them, but think for a moment about what C actually does stack-wise in these triggers and loops... the difference usually isn't that great, and any map worrying about bad execution performances is seriously fuck*d up somewhere :)
About writing faster... meh, no. If you actually use both shortcuts and the search field (already knowing the functions, that is) the GUI is extremely fast and comfortable, unless you are able to code < pick each unit - if this - do something on them > loops in 10 seconds, also you have a MUCH clearer and coherent vision of the map/code structure itself when you need to change something later whether you commented your lines or not.
I don't normally mind writing raw code, I actually like doing that outside SC2, but to any new mapmaker I would recommend sticking with the GUI and only stop from time to time to learn (well, you are halfway there if your know C or Java) how the same thing is done in Galaxy just in case you really need it some day.
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If something like Nexus Wars actually wins the contest i'm done with SC2 for good :D
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Yeah... if Blizzcon contest judges actually have any clue about what's happening on Battle.Net (or read their own blog thread) your map won't be eligible I'm afraid.
Also, everyone not creating singleplayer maps, TDs or something with DotA in its name is struggling hard with popularity right now. This comes from a mapmaker seeing his map fall from 7400 games/day (10-minutes B.Net glitch showing real popularity for Featured maps) to page 9 within two days just because it required more and dedicated players than some regular dumb "Whatever" Wars.
Just keep updating your map like we are all doing, some better system will come soon :)
I'm from EU so that doesn't really bother me, but removing it is pointless imho.
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Keep in mind it's actually games/day, not games/hour.
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It doesn't work like that, you can easily check it yourself :)
Try starting a game every 10 minutes.
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That's just wrong.
It's games/day, with an internal cooldown preventing the same player from spamming create over and over.
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Tbh, not a single submitted UMS was even eligible for the Blizzard contest since they want fresh unpublished maps. Don't get me wrong, I think the contest is a great idea, but delaying the deadline twice to have more entries sounds annoying for those mostly interested to experienced feedback rather than the prize itself. I sure was.
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Just yours.