SC2Mapster

Quote from SoulFilcher: Go

@SiarX: Go Hybrids always appear supported by one or more of the other races, they are usually all very powerful, which in a multiplayer mod means expensive and high tier units. They also have one or more activated abilities, sometimes several abilities, its kind of hard to place them together because those characteristics are not good for multiplayer mechanics. And there are 4 types, or 6 if you count the new variations for the original 2. Anyway, let's keep the discussion going to see what the options are. In my opinion the purple "zerg" hybrid and nemesis should go to Amon's brood, dominator/mastermind/maar should go to Tal'darim. Thrasher is a complicated one, I don't even know I'll be able to use it properly.

@Kanitala: Go Right now I'm inclined to give nerazim the green one and tal'darim the red one to make things simple. I kind of like your purple archon idea but still it won't fit the whole theme, I'm sure players like beating their enemies in all Sith-colored units ;-)

@nolanstar: Go Yes, definitely, I hate that its just a standard HT. But to be honest I hate the unit.

I know, they are tanky (very high hp but relatively low dps) for other units. Of course I didnt mean for faction to consist only of hybrids, it would probably be addition to standart zerg (who have massed cheap dpsers to support; would probably lose ultralisks in exchange). But reasons for all hybrids to be united were listed above. And whats so wriong with different abilitie, in total its less than, lets say, normal protoss have

Quote from Zarxiel93: Go

6 Hybrids? The Hybrids are 5: Destroyer Reaver Nemesis Behemoth Dominator

the Void Trasher is not a Hybrid and Maar is more like a Destroyer hero.

True, Void tharsher is not hybrid but fits their faction very well imho. Looks like would make good tower. Maar would work as hero unit

I also like idea of evolution intio enhanced types very much

Quote from JayborinoPlays: Go

@MaskedImposter: Go

I am merely a player of great works. I think I could if I spent a ton of time tinkering around and making some crappy test maps first, but I don't really have the time beyond recording videos.

A pity, really :(

You are reading my thoughts! :-) Plus slow evolution as he killes enemies/gathers essences/finds data about himself and other hybrids. And maybe periodically challenged by other hybrids since not all admit him as leader. Not to mentions search groups of Protoss or Dominion who relentlessly pursue through several missions... If only someone decided to realize this...

@SoulFilcher: Still I dont get, why hybrids need to be separated, especially after LotV with new types. Imho it would make more sense to unite them in one faction; all hybrids there including enhanced version, void thrashers (towers, maybe capable of teleoprt when full energy), maybe hero units like Maar (with many special abilities) and hybrid from Piercing the Shroud (invulnerable while within certain radius from his production building). Coul make interesting facion concentrated on survival till late game Besides, taldarim have a lot of powerful campaign units anyway, they dont need hybrids IIRC, originally you wanted Gorgon to be very slow, versy sturdy BC, too. Single attack like BW would make it more original...

Hmm, green archon... he cannot be recoloured?

or Majesty-like map where you can only give indirect orders to small brood/toss-terran base with units capable of leveling up and with their own personality

Got and idea of custom campaign. It is about one of rogue hybrids that got free will after fall of Amon and now seek his place in the world, collecting other rogues, as well as dealing with problems of possible extniction of their race (how to find way to reproduce? and overcome anomosity of other races), gradually evolving his biological-psionic powers and so on...

Imho hybrids should be in one tribe and not Taldarim, since they rebelled against Amon after all Still hope for Gorgons and other stuff (Replicator?) to apperar Btw, when do you plan to update it for LotV?

So this mod will not be updated until LotV? A pity( Is it going to include Herc, Ravager, Adept, etc? Btw (for the future): what about featuring Plasma Battery, Multilock, burrow charge upgrades.. no immortality for torrasque? also old version of Void Ray (WoL looks more interesting than alignment), Hydralisk (1 supply and massable), some HotS mutations (toxin ultralisk, vile roach, impaler?), Gorgon (as very very slow but very very hard to take down version of BC, maybe with single strong attack instead of many weak), predators... Both Corruptors and Guardians seem somewhat boring. Would it possible to make them turn infested units into friendly ones upon death (like in SC alpha), and in case of Guardians to temporarily slow or blind attacked units?

could this old thread be moved to Suggestions/Requests?

@SoulFilcher: So you think that Gorgons primary role should be AA? Hmm, but is not it what vikings and marines are for? And heavy bombardment assault ship role fits their lore pretty well) Oh, I see. It is a pity :-( Good news! ^{It would be very nice to control Kerrigan herself again, with her unique HotS abilities (of course you realize that some of them, namely passive ones, are way too gamebreaking to ever be incorporated)! One more idea: what about making two versions (maybe diffrent coloured) of Leviathan? One will be heavy assault unit as it is now, and the other will be original Levi: slow, almost defenseless flying factory able to produce cocoons of Broodlords, Mutalisks, Scourge very quickly and for reduced prices? P.S. Why dont you also upload Expanded on SC2Mapster? Last update: Sep 10, 2013 ...}

Ok, I will post more suggestions later ;-)

Right now – several ideas:

I. Gorgons (smaller and quicker than in campaign) might replace BCs for some factions (Dominion?). They would be flying siege unit having good air-to-ground attack (small radius though), powerful bombs with huge bonus damage to buildings but being helpless against airborn enemies (although their ability allows to redirect cannons to air for a short period of time)

II. Since zerg have problems with AA, they might get scourge nests as compensation ;-) long-ranged AA, especially good at countering Gorgons according to lore ;-) Or maybe they could be invisible before first attack? Besides, self-guided scourges look really cool)

III. Hybrids. What do you think of idea of making them one faction? After all it makes more sense (true, destroyers look more protoss-like but they still have zergish features), why would they fight each other instead of obeying Dark Voice… Preferably zerg faction; they fit better role of covering weaknesses of powerful but innumerous hybrids with cheap massable cannon fodder and hybrids definitely prefer to use zergs, not some toss fanatics according to “bad end“. So you might unite all three of them (admittedly, dominator is just a bigger destroyer but he has really cool combination of spells). Oh, and resurrectable Maar would be a great hero B)

IV. Kerrigan. I have an idea how to implement hero Queen of Blades which we all love and fear without nerfing her to ground or making total imba. She might keep most of her abilities (except ones which obviously break game design – automated extractors, twin drones) and stats. It doesn’t actually make her invincible since she is still vulnerable to focus fire (even AI manages to kill her sometimes). Howerver after her death all friendly zergs on the map become oppressed become panic-stricken and start to attack each other instead of enemies for some period of time (or maybe another sort of negative bonus, I am not sure yet).

Wow, how many cool ideas and units! I like it a lot and will definitely give a time to this mod. A couple of questions: - is AI able to use factions selection feature? -Are high level factions units (such as laser tanks, hybrids, purifiers) mass buildable or unique? -Do you have Gorgonas and Hybrid Dominator in it? If no, then why?

@phanalax128: Go

Thanks! It would be interesting to see another "hybrid creator". True, flying tentacle bumblebee may seem odd at first glance. But hybrids are hybrids , so I wouldnt put past them using some minor creatures as cannon fodder. In WoL "bad end" zergs played this role, but since Kerrigan did not die, well...

@SoulTaker916: Go

Well, as I said, it is basically an idea meant to get somebody interested. Why not (if I remember correctly, there was even similiar discussion before: http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/58394-the-hybrid-as-a-playable-race/#p13 )? Who knows - maybe even developers will take some inspiration if they happened to read this) (assuming that there is going to appear hybrid base in LotV of course...)

Hi. This is my idea of Hybrids race (which hopefully will become full-grown though non-playable faction in LotV). It might be useful for campaign or melee maps. I hope you will like it^^

Hybrids

Pros: - Good defense - Powerful, versatile units - Excellent casters - Late game mobility - Strong «artillery» - Positioning

Cons: - Micro heavy - Lack of air power till T3 - Gas and supply heavy in late game - Some units require additional resources

Features: All building (except static defense and cells) accumulate energy (from 25 to 150, depending on size and price). This energy can be used by some units. Units require only Forbidden Temple (main production building) and one additional building for each type to be produced (similar to zerg). However you can build more than one of each add.building in order to decrease build time of this unit type. Units are created in clone cells (see below). This race upgrades type of units: beasts, higher beasts, hybrids, higher hybrids. In the process of building worker cannot be distracted but he remains invulnerable. However after building is finished, it requires being «charged» by worker for 20 more seconds - otherwise it will stop functioning. Classification: there are «beast» (non-sapient creatures from various planets enslaved psyonically by hybrids - numerous, cheap but relatively weak. Regenerate while close to friendly buildings) and «hybrid» (single, expensive but powerful. Most of them have shields) units. Play style of this race is to rely on combination quantity + quality, and very good abilities of units (which require and energy and sometimes resources though).

Buildings (only those which stand out against a background of standard ones):

T1 Clone cell - 0 minerals. Looks like smaller stasis cell with hybrid from campaign. Cell cannot be «built» independently - it will appear when a unit is ordered in Forbidden Temple, in target location (within range of one of temples). Unit grows in camera, than goes out, and cell remains (opponent cannot see whether cell is empty or not without detector). This allows hybrids walling with unitsJ But the more units have been ordered, the slower production will be. Ability - self-destruction. After T3 upgrade («acid cells») it will deal 15 damage to enemy units when self-destructed. If cell is destroyed before unit has been grown, unit will die.

Corrupted crystal – 100 minerals. Provides supply. After T3 upgrade («charged beams») it gets active ability «Awakening» - crystal becomes able to attack ground and air targets using accumulated energy. Look like protoss pylon «grabbed» by black paw.

Swarm guardian – 125. Static defense. Detector. Doesn’t deal damage but periodically summons free spiketails (low hp, low attack but high speed) which automatically attacks ground targets. Looks like pool with slime where insect-like creature crawl.

T2

Pulsar – 150/100 Static defense. Detector. Powerful long-range twin cannon (can attack two ground targets at once). Has blind spot. Active ability («Gravity»; can be autocast) – immobilizes target air unit and makes it vulnerable to ground attacks. Looks like mixture of laser drill from WoL campaign with photon, slimed cannon.

Altar – 200/100 Friendly units can be sacrificed there in order to get 50% (75% after upgrade) of their cost back.

Т3

Hammer of oblivion - 250/250. Only one can be build. No attack but two active abilities (require full energy): «Doom strike» - deals splash energetic damage in target point (even in fog of war) Anti-matter shield – target creatures become invulnerable for several seconds.

Void gates - 300/300. Hybrids «killed» in battle automatically teleport here (up to 3 per one gate). They can be resurrected in the gates for halved price in terran-like way, with no cells required (but they require the same supply and production time).

Units: (since this is a concept, it doesnt have exact stats )

Т1 Servant (50, 1 supply) – a specimen from primitive tribe enslaved by hybrids. Looks like sectoid. Low hp and attack. Can be sacrificed in target building to speed up its production/research/firepower/quicker building.

Canilisk (75, 1 supply) – hound-like creature; stronger and slower than zergling, quicker and weaker than zealot. Active ability («explosion») – after 1.5 seconds of charge explodes, dealing 20 damage (60 to buildings) to nearby units. After T3 upgrade gets passive ability «cannibalism» - when any canilisk dies, all canilisks in average radius get healed +20 hp.

Hybrid destroyer (125/50, 2 supply) – powerful ranged unit, stronger but a bit slower than stalker. Attacks ground and air targets with powerful void blasts (projectiles have low speed though). Looks like in campaign. Active ability («close combat») – switches ranged attack to psy-claws which deal lower damage but in higher rate. After T2 upgrade gets passive ability «sturdy» - cannot be slowed, immobilized or lifted in the air.

Hybrid guard (150, 2 supply) – high hp, very low ranged dps and move speed. Has weak shield. Can consume energy of the buildings (1 point of energy for each point of energy of the building; can be autocast). After T2 upgrade («Hand of darkness») gets powerful AA attack. Active abilities: «Neuron impulse» (100 energy) – targets small area. Affected units get +40% move speed for 30 seconds. «Reaping» (50 energy) – sacrifices target friendly unit and restore 50 hp to all units and buildings around hybrid. «Reborn» (100 energy) - turns target friendly unit into fiend (armored unit with small hp but high attack, almost as strong as roach) which dies 1 minute later. Unlimited distance. «Dark veil» (100 energy) - target unit or building becomes invisible for 1 minute. Invisibility will be lost if it attacks.

T2

Scoureech (75/125, 1 supply) – slow flying detector. Looks like bumblebee with tentacles. Shoots stings (deal zero damage) at ground targets, attacks air targets with sonic wave (casts away and deals 5 splash damage). Passive ability («virus») – unit attacked by sting will receive 50% more damage from any attacks for 3 seconds. Active ability («warden») – target unit becomes detector. Costs 125 energy and 25 gas. After T3 upgrade («power of mind») gets passive ability to make attacked unit lose 30 energy.

Venopede (200, 2 supply) – flying unit with high AA dps (at close distance). Looks like scolopendra with 3 pairs of webbed wings which leaves green trail as it flies. Active ability (corruption mode) – in this mode scolopendra cannot move and attack but spills deadly toxin on target area. Units in this area lose 8% of max hp every second. Upgrade – move speed.

Taur (100/50, 3 supply) – quick unit with high hp but no armor. Looks like scaly bull without tail. Attacks only ground targets, bonus damage to heavy armor. Passive ability («fury») – when taur loses hp, its attack speed increases.

Dark cloud (200, 2 supply) – aerial transport. Looks like red-black levitating sphere. Passive ability («stealth path») – cloud is not seen on mini-map unless spotted by detector.

Hybrid warper (100/200, 2 supply) – support unit. Doesn’t attack but possess good shield and move speed. Active abilities: «Ancient taboo» (125 energy) – all units in target area temporarily cannot use their abilities. Radius is bigger than that of EMP. «Psychic trap» (75 energy) – creates invisible trap for 2 minutes. When enemy ground units approaches, it explodes and slows all enemy units within splash radius by 50% for 4 seconds. «Hand of devastation» (150 energy) – hybrid creates energetic channel between target mine/gas field and himself which destroys 5 minerals/2 gas in second during 1 minute. Cancels automatically if hybrid is under attack. Upgrades – unlocking second, third and fourth abilities, bonus energy, longer existence of psychic trap.

T3

Firebringer (150/150, 4 supply) – a giant scarlet-skinned mixture of omegalisk and crab. Shoots very long-ranged splash flame charges (80 damage each, requires 10 gas) at high trajectory. Bonus damage to buildings. Has blind spot.

Hybrid reaver (350/200, 6 supply) – powerful melee warrior, looks like in campaign. Very high damage, high hp, low move speed and fire rate. Bonus damage to light armor. No shield. Crushes force fields. Passive ability («blood thirst») – when kills any unit, permanently increases its attack by 2. After T3 upgrade gets active ability («levitate») – lifts up into air; can fly and attack air targets for 12 seconds. Or upgrade to behemoth...

Darkwing (250/150, 4 supply) – quick flying unit. Shoots blasts of dark energy. Building attacked by darkwing stops functioning for 6 second (passive ability «void siphon»). After T3 upgrade gets active ability («Scream», 150 energy) – target unit goes on rampage and attacks nearest targets for 12 seconds.

Hybrid dominator (200/300, 5 supply) – looks like in campaign. Powerful archon-like unit with strong shield and close-ranged but impressive attack. Can consume energy of the buildings (1 hp and 1 energy for each 2 points of energy of the building). Active abilities: «Mirror image» (100 energy) – creates two copies of dominator which receive full damage and deal 15% of damage of dominator. Exist for 50 seconds. «Psywave» (125 energy) – after 1 second of charge unleashes two energy waves which deals to all units around dominator 50 damage with 1 second of interval. «Voidwalking» (150 energy) – after 2 seconds of charge teleports dominator and all units close to it (no matter friendly or not) in target point. Average range. Upgrade – move speed.

Hybrid nemesis (300/300, 4 supply), like in campaign

Hybrid morphling (200/150, 5 supply) – slow, sturdy unit with plenty of tentacles. No shield. Initially defenseless but it does have 6 «slots» for various weapon. Active ability – «morph»: fills slot with one of those weapons: Psi blade (25 mineral) – high fire rate, low damage. Claw of void (50 mineral) – higher range than that of psi blade. Bonus damage to heavy armor. «Life stealer» (100 mineral) – energy charges at ground and air targets. Each shot restores little hp to morphling. Dark shield (75 gas) – blocks 1 attack, then recharges 5 seconds. Blaster (75 has, 25 mineral) – low dps but chain damage (up to 4 targets). Hole generator (100 mineral, 100 gas) – attacks ground and air units, The highest dps.

Upgrade – receives shield

Possible heroes - Maar (with his special abilities) and hybrid from Piercing the Shroud (invulnerable while within certain radius from his production building)

Additional T3 tower - void thrashers (capable of teleoprt when full energy)

P.P.S. Some unused ideas: - «multi-layer» upgrade of the buildings to get access to lower price and/or time production of units - unit/building which redirects all damage dealt to neighbors to itself - auras which affect nearby creatures constantly