To be fair, the last time I tried duplicating units was when I worked on Marine Arena probably about a year ago. I should give it another shot and see if things have changed, but when I had to duplicate about 18 units the results were a nightmare. Nothing worked right away; had issues like roaches without footprints and being visible while burrowed, ghosts were constantly having their names reverted back to the duplicated units' name, marauders suddenly doing double damage to units within 0 range, and the list goes on. I can't imagine how an amateur would have handled those issues.
They said they can't add things consistently. Two updates in several years is not exactly consistent ;)
It really shouldn't be too hard to create a program that just writes the xml for you. But, at least as far as I know, there's no way to create a "plug in" for the editor that works right along side it. So users would have to copy/paste the xml themselves (which is too much work) or save the map as a components file (which means they can't work on the map and use the wizard simultaneously).
I appreciate you bringing that up as a potential option. I don't want to sound ungrateful or dismiss it, but my goal with this mockup would be to make the editor accessible to all players, which would mean having direct integration with the editor. The only reason I'm even pursuing this is because a Blizzard employee mentioned they were interested in ideas.
Sorry to come off as negative.... but its not to hard to make units..... that statement alone tells me you haven't spent enough time in the editor.
The goal of the editor wasn't ever to be be easy....... Its super complicated and advance data usage is required to make cool shit.
It may be a steep experience curve but ..... there's so much you can do that you couldn't possibly make a wizard that touched on half of the shit with out that being too complicated itself.
whats so hard about duplicating units anyways...... thats basically what your looking for?
If you've made any maps, you know duplicating is not simple and not without bugs. You know the actor frequently breaks, to the point where it's easier to not duplicate it and just modify the original. You know sometimes unit names revert back to the unit it was based on for no reason. You also know the model sometimes won't correctly attach to the unit data and appear as a blob in the game.
To a new editor, the duplicate function is completely unusable and results in hours of frustration while you search google for why nothing is working.
Third party tools defeats the purpose of making this easy to use. As an aside, I am not a programmer and could not create such a program.
My point with making this is that data editor needs a wizard to assist new editors in making their own maps. It is too difficult right now. There are no third party tools that make it easy.
The galaxy editor team seems to be interested in the idea. Deletarius was writing on the official forum indicating he had asked FockeWolf to make such a design scheme so they could judge for themselves:
Quote from Deletarius:
Yes, I did ask you to lay out a UI for a potential wizard system, however I also asked you to create a workflow that would accompany the UI that you created, which was not done. When I asked you to walk me through the specifics of your system, I unfortunately couldn’t get any concrete idea in my head of how the system was supposed to work.
So at the least, there is interest shown by Blizzard in explaining what a wizard would accomplish and how it would work.
I was talking to one of the devs a few weeks back about this, and he said, that since there is no monthly subscription, that they cant from a buisness standpoint deliver extra content constantly, and that they rely on the community to create 3rd party tools such as this one.
That doesn't make any sense. Using that logic, they shouldn't be updating the editor at all. Why add a UI design tool? Why add cinematic mode? Why add anything unless it comes packed in the expansion? It's not a good reason.
So I posted this to the Blizzard forums but I know a lot of people here don't read them much anymore. I wanted to get any feedback you guys had on this. Before I paste it over, lemme just explain a little what it is I'm trying to do.
I personally believe a big reason we don't see as many maps on Starcraft II as we did in Warcraft III is because there is too great a barrier in terms of difficulty in getting new people to use the data editor. I understand it very well now, but I know personally it took me well over 40-60 hours before I was truly comfortable using it. I don't think the average person has that kind of time to understand what an actor really is, how to do the events for it properly, what parts make a fully customized unit, etc.
So in short, the unit wizard is designed for beginner data editors to make basic custom units. You can make a structures that spawn whatever units you want or units with custom damage and stats. You'll still need to do behaviors, buffs, and effects and such afterward, but this gives you a good template to start with.
---------
What is the unit wizard?
The unit wizard is a tool for beginning map authors to create their own custom units based on existing units within the editor.
What type of units can the unit wizard create?
The unit wizard will create basic structures and units. Examples include a custom barracks that creates custom units, a missile turret customized for tower defense (will only do damage, effects still added the traditional way in data editor), or a buffed super marine to be used in your custom map.
What are the limits of the unit wizard?
The unit wizard will only create a stationary or moving unit based on your selections, with the ability to use its weapon and do the damage you specify.
The unit wizard will NOT do the following:
- Add effects, behaviors, or buffs to the weapon or unit
- Create brand new graphical effects
- Allow you to specify abilities for a unit
What is the overall goal of the unit wizard?
Our goal here is when you're done with the unit wizard you will have a basic template that can be easily modified to make your ideal unit. The model, actors, unit, weapon, damage, and footprint will be completed, leaving you to fine-tune any further details such as ramp-up speeds.
Ideally the typical user will only need to define damage counters, customize the command card, and apply effects from the weapon (such as for custom TD towers) after the wizard is done in order to have a functioning custom unit.
In this screenshot we see a new menu option available from the right click menu in the data editor. Choosing it begins the all-new unit wizard for beginning map editors.
The first step is selecting a unit to base our new unit on. The details of this unit will determine things by default such as model, projectiles used for the weapon, move speed, actors, etc.
Now we're in the unit wizard. It's going to walk your hand through creating your very own custom unit, with a little help from the initial unit you selected. When this process is completed a brand new unit will be added to the data editor with working abilities, actors, models, etc. that can be modified like any other unit.
As you see, each time you make a selection a new menu appears asking you to further clarify what sort of unit this is going to be. The options revealed after each step can potentially change based on your selection.
Finally, when you're ready to set the basic statistics of the weapon, you can punch them into a simple field. Of course we know there's a lot more details to these units, but everything that isn't asked for here will be carried over from the unit we chose initially when starting the wizard.
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To be fair, the last time I tried duplicating units was when I worked on Marine Arena probably about a year ago. I should give it another shot and see if things have changed, but when I had to duplicate about 18 units the results were a nightmare. Nothing worked right away; had issues like roaches without footprints and being visible while burrowed, ghosts were constantly having their names reverted back to the duplicated units' name, marauders suddenly doing double damage to units within 0 range, and the list goes on. I can't imagine how an amateur would have handled those issues.
I appreciate you bringing that up as a potential option. I don't want to sound ungrateful or dismiss it, but my goal with this mockup would be to make the editor accessible to all players, which would mean having direct integration with the editor. The only reason I'm even pursuing this is because a Blizzard employee mentioned they were interested in ideas.
If you've made any maps, you know duplicating is not simple and not without bugs. You know the actor frequently breaks, to the point where it's easier to not duplicate it and just modify the original. You know sometimes unit names revert back to the unit it was based on for no reason. You also know the model sometimes won't correctly attach to the unit data and appear as a blob in the game.
To a new editor, the duplicate function is completely unusable and results in hours of frustration while you search google for why nothing is working.
Third party tools defeats the purpose of making this easy to use. As an aside, I am not a programmer and could not create such a program.
My point with making this is that data editor needs a wizard to assist new editors in making their own maps. It is too difficult right now. There are no third party tools that make it easy.
The galaxy editor team seems to be interested in the idea. Deletarius was writing on the official forum indicating he had asked FockeWolf to make such a design scheme so they could judge for themselves:
So at the least, there is interest shown by Blizzard in explaining what a wizard would accomplish and how it would work.
EDIT: And concerning this:
That doesn't make any sense. Using that logic, they shouldn't be updating the editor at all. Why add a UI design tool? Why add cinematic mode? Why add anything unless it comes packed in the expansion? It's not a good reason.
So I posted this to the Blizzard forums but I know a lot of people here don't read them much anymore. I wanted to get any feedback you guys had on this. Before I paste it over, lemme just explain a little what it is I'm trying to do.
I personally believe a big reason we don't see as many maps on Starcraft II as we did in Warcraft III is because there is too great a barrier in terms of difficulty in getting new people to use the data editor. I understand it very well now, but I know personally it took me well over 40-60 hours before I was truly comfortable using it. I don't think the average person has that kind of time to understand what an actor really is, how to do the events for it properly, what parts make a fully customized unit, etc.
So in short, the unit wizard is designed for beginner data editors to make basic custom units. You can make a structures that spawn whatever units you want or units with custom damage and stats. You'll still need to do behaviors, buffs, and effects and such afterward, but this gives you a good template to start with.
---------What is the unit wizard?
The unit wizard is a tool for beginning map authors to create their own custom units based on existing units within the editor.
What type of units can the unit wizard create?
The unit wizard will create basic structures and units. Examples include a custom barracks that creates custom units, a missile turret customized for tower defense (will only do damage, effects still added the traditional way in data editor), or a buffed super marine to be used in your custom map.
What are the limits of the unit wizard?
The unit wizard will only create a stationary or moving unit based on your selections, with the ability to use its weapon and do the damage you specify.
The unit wizard will NOT do the following:
- Add effects, behaviors, or buffs to the weapon or unit - Create brand new graphical effects - Allow you to specify abilities for a unit
What is the overall goal of the unit wizard?
Our goal here is when you're done with the unit wizard you will have a basic template that can be easily modified to make your ideal unit. The model, actors, unit, weapon, damage, and footprint will be completed, leaving you to fine-tune any further details such as ramp-up speeds.
Ideally the typical user will only need to define damage counters, customize the command card, and apply effects from the weapon (such as for custom TD towers) after the wizard is done in order to have a functioning custom unit.
In this screenshot we see a new menu option available from the right click menu in the data editor. Choosing it begins the all-new unit wizard for beginning map editors.
The first step is selecting a unit to base our new unit on. The details of this unit will determine things by default such as model, projectiles used for the weapon, move speed, actors, etc.
Now we're in the unit wizard. It's going to walk your hand through creating your very own custom unit, with a little help from the initial unit you selected. When this process is completed a brand new unit will be added to the data editor with working abilities, actors, models, etc. that can be modified like any other unit.
As you see, each time you make a selection a new menu appears asking you to further clarify what sort of unit this is going to be. The options revealed after each step can potentially change based on your selection.
Finally, when you're ready to set the basic statistics of the weapon, you can punch them into a simple field. Of course we know there's a lot more details to these units, but everything that isn't asked for here will be carried over from the unit we chose initially when starting the wizard.