News: Chat channels are coming in Diablo 3... Bashiok:
Quote:
Soooooo... hey everyone. How's it going? Good? Weather ok? Great... so, right... You know how sometimes you say something that's stupid and wrong and then people very reasonably get upset and create a lot of threads and discussions and demands with some pretty reasonable reasons for the thing you said wouldn't happen but then it turns out that you're stupid and wrong and the things you said are completely the opposite of what's actually true?
Yeah. So that happened. Public chat channels
will
be in Diablo III, barring any catastrophe that requires we remove them, because they're already implemented. In fact they'll be in an upcoming beta patch so you'll get to see and play around with them yourselves.
I'm not sure I can offer any explanation as to the incorrectness of my statements, except that I believed them to be correct when I made them. I apologize, and I'll strive to not be stupid and wrong in the future.
More info on the chat feature, and others, to come in the weeks ahead. Thanks for sticking with it, and me.
1. No. Take someone who has never played wc3 and sc2 and have them compare both interfaces. Starcraft 2 is better. The interface on Wc3 does not feel more modern. This may be a point of opinion, but millions of Starcraft 2 players love this over Wc3. Maybe start a poll on TL or something, but ,yea. Im pretty certain
2.Less is not always a bad thing. Especially if its only for simplicity. Now, again, If someone never played Wc3, they wouldn`t have these thoughts or care whatsoever about missing functionality they do not need. The missing functionality itself is few for players(`clans`, `chat commands` etc, Nothing critical or core).
Its obvious that mappers(and some players) from Wc3 have the biggest problem with B.net 2.0 and have greater preference with B.net 1.0. Its mostly the mappers though.
However, from a USER standpoint, the new system is much more visually better and it does what it needs to do. Simple as that.
The company obviously spent a lot of money on research and development of the interface, with top developers leading it. Its impossible to say Wc3 interface functions/looks better. I cant fathom why anyone would think that. Just impossible.
This is like the Myspace vs Facebook argument. The former had more functionality(You could add music on your page, change its color and all sorts of crazy stuff), but it looked kinda ugly(like the Wc3 chains up/down/up interface). Then Facebook comes in, very SIMPLISTIC, clean and functional only to whats needed(no extra frills etc) and it smashes and destroys Myspace. Simplicity for the masses.
Part of the reason Starcraft 2 is so successful and has a higher retention ratio of players(compared to other strategy games, and their life cycles) is because the interface is great. Maybe not perfect, but far better than Warcraft 3 and other strategy games.
@Everyone
I watched the video. Nothing special. Talking about clans, chatrooms, and tournaments etc. I thought it was way more deeper and insightful into the technical nature of how B.net 1.0 is superior(as some of you guys in this thread have made it out to be), but Husky just mentions some of the stuff he likes/missed in Wc3 B.net. Thats hardly a cause for anti-b.net 2.0 celebration.
1. My recommendation would be don't suggest TL to support your argument lol. Right now there's a 40 or 50 page thread supporting prozaic and the rest of us :/
2. True, and that player has probably already quit playing because subconsciously the lack of social features (and custom game system) caused it.
3. Did they spent a lot on the interface design? Prozaic do you know on this matter?
4. Can you provide a statistic or evidence of the retention thing? I'm genuinely interested to know how much more players have stayed playing SC2 vs other Blizz RTS's over a period of X time.
Overall I see your arguments, and I guess we'll just have to disagree on bnet 2.0. Most of the reason people are fired up is because a lot of time has passed, and the same thing is happening with D3 now. Husky's vid reminded me of the whole design and the features that I missed.
I ran a script on the credits for War3, WoW, and SC2, you guys may find this interesting if nothing else.
Credits comparison between Warcraft 3 (2002), WoW (2004), SC2 (2010)
----------------
The following numbers should be taken as approximations...
Data gathered from credits listings on mobygames.com (most of it is straight from the site, but with the 'thanks to' sections taken out, as well as some company (non person) credits).
----------------
Unique people count in credits:
War3: 314
WoW: 555
Sc2: 3806
176% bigger workforce from war3->WoW
1212% bigger workforce from war3->sc2
----------------
182 matching devs between war3 & WoW
57% of War3 devs worked on WoW
102 matching devs between War3 & Sc2
32% of War3 devs worked on SC2
----------------
Now counting only senior devs (devs who have "executive", "director", or "lead" in their titles... 31 in War3, 35 in WoW, 120 in Sc2)
17 matching 'senior' devs between war3 & WoW
54% of 'senior' War3 devs worked as 'senior' devs in WoW
25 matching 'senior' devs between war3 & Sc2
80% of 'senior' War3 devs worked as 'senior' devs in Sc2
I see no reason to hate at Blizzard. They only failed at the popularity system. You're all pointing out minor issues, which are unimportant, and wouldnt have been complained about, if Blizzard had got the popularity system right to start off with. It's nothing but a bad chain reaction. Take it easy everybody, and give them a chance. Every game or service has some issues at release. They'll get fixed.
I've had that attitude since bnet came out back in April 2010 or whenever. We can only keep saying that for so many years until we should probably have some concern, right? We gave them constructive criticism since the beta and have seen SOME good results, but ultimately Husky's vid highlighted what we still don't have (surprised me actually). I kind of fear this cycle will continue.
I'm trying desperately not to become a Rodrigo here but watching that vid did not help lol. Yes, I like bnet 2.0's party system, group convos, permanent account name (I like this tbh), being able to DL/buy games online, being able to /r through chat still, being able to view your friends list ingame, and ease to send updates of your map to the community. But none of this matters if the system kills your desire to use it.
Taking every other complaint away, let's just look at region-locking and a lack of a global map pool. Coming from SC2Mapster where we are a global community, it really just seems silly and backwards... considering we HAD this feature (region unlocked) years ago. The good news though is that Diablo 3 is not region locked!
It kind of made me sad watching this and comparing to Bnet 2.0. It's not even nostalgia, it's just better :/. Region locking, custom map system, clans, tournaments... let's hope sc2 improves in these areas!
OneTwoSC 8 minutes ago
@OneTwoSC Yeah its kind of weird... I try VERY hard no to 'nostalgia hard' on something, which is something a LOT of people do, especially when it comes to gaming. But on paper Bnet 1.0 is flat out better in virtually every way.
The only thing Bnet 2.0 does a little bit better is matchmaking.... which Blizzard has had over a decade to perfect at this point.
I can understand no LAN from a business standpoint... but not leaving out everything else after so much time :\
I'm glad a high profile person highlighted this. It made me kind of sad; it's not even nostalgia, it just seems so much better. I'm envious of War3's features right now lol... aside from its editor being kind of bad compared to sc2's, its bnet is definitely much more conducive...
Side note: Bashiok said D3 would have D2 'irc' esque chat channels and game listings... so far none is found in the beta... eek.
Like ^ that post too. It seems like this is another push by our community (except this time the general public is aware) for some answers. Where's Rodrigo?
@EternalWraith: Go
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308482
Edit: And I should say that Diablo 3 is faring better in a lot of areas, especially about stats and hopefully channels...
News: Chat channels are coming in Diablo 3... Bashiok:
1. My recommendation would be don't suggest TL to support your argument lol. Right now there's a 40 or 50 page thread supporting prozaic and the rest of us :/
2. True, and that player has probably already quit playing because subconsciously the lack of social features (and custom game system) caused it.
3. Did they spent a lot on the interface design? Prozaic do you know on this matter?
4. Can you provide a statistic or evidence of the retention thing? I'm genuinely interested to know how much more players have stayed playing SC2 vs other Blizz RTS's over a period of X time.
Overall I see your arguments, and I guess we'll just have to disagree on bnet 2.0. Most of the reason people are fired up is because a lot of time has passed, and the same thing is happening with D3 now. Husky's vid reminded me of the whole design and the features that I missed.
I ran a script on the credits for War3, WoW, and SC2, you guys may find this interesting if nothing else.
Credits comparison between Warcraft 3 (2002), WoW (2004), SC2 (2010)
----------------
The following numbers should be taken as approximations...
Data gathered from credits listings on mobygames.com (most of it is straight from the site, but with the 'thanks to' sections taken out, as well as some company (non person) credits).
----------------
Unique people count in credits:
War3: 314
WoW: 555
Sc2: 3806
176% bigger workforce from war3->WoW
1212% bigger workforce from war3->sc2
----------------
182 matching devs between war3 & WoW
57% of War3 devs worked on WoW
102 matching devs between War3 & Sc2
32% of War3 devs worked on SC2
----------------
Now counting only senior devs (devs who have "executive", "director", or "lead" in their titles... 31 in War3, 35 in WoW, 120 in Sc2)
17 matching 'senior' devs between war3 & WoW
54% of 'senior' War3 devs worked as 'senior' devs in WoW
25 matching 'senior' devs between war3 & Sc2
80% of 'senior' War3 devs worked as 'senior' devs in Sc2
I've had that attitude since bnet came out back in April 2010 or whenever. We can only keep saying that for so many years until we should probably have some concern, right? We gave them constructive criticism since the beta and have seen SOME good results, but ultimately Husky's vid highlighted what we still don't have (surprised me actually). I kind of fear this cycle will continue.
I'm trying desperately not to become a Rodrigo here but watching that vid did not help lol. Yes, I like bnet 2.0's party system, group convos, permanent account name (I like this tbh), being able to DL/buy games online, being able to /r through chat still, being able to view your friends list ingame, and ease to send updates of your map to the community. But none of this matters if the system kills your desire to use it.
Taking every other complaint away, let's just look at region-locking and a lack of a global map pool. Coming from SC2Mapster where we are a global community, it really just seems silly and backwards... considering we HAD this feature (region unlocked) years ago. The good news though is that Diablo 3 is not region locked!
FYI Husky responded to my comment:
It kind of made me sad watching this and comparing to Bnet 2.0. It's not even nostalgia, it's just better :/. Region locking, custom map system, clans, tournaments... let's hope sc2 improves in these areas!
OneTwoSC 8 minutes ago
@OneTwoSC Yeah its kind of weird... I try VERY hard no to 'nostalgia hard' on something, which is something a LOT of people do, especially when it comes to gaming. But on paper Bnet 1.0 is flat out better in virtually every way.
The only thing Bnet 2.0 does a little bit better is matchmaking.... which Blizzard has had over a decade to perfect at this point.
I can understand no LAN from a business standpoint... but not leaving out everything else after so much time :\
HuskyStarcraft 2 minutes ago
I'm glad a high profile person highlighted this. It made me kind of sad; it's not even nostalgia, it just seems so much better. I'm envious of War3's features right now lol... aside from its editor being kind of bad compared to sc2's, its bnet is definitely much more conducive...
Side note: Bashiok said D3 would have D2 'irc' esque chat channels and game listings... so far none is found in the beta... eek.
Edit: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3988232669?page=1
Like ^ that post too. It seems like this is another push by our community (except this time the general public is aware) for some answers. Where's Rodrigo?