Clearly it is you who has a very vague understanding of me given that you are completely oblivious to me and my stance.
You assume I believe SC is the best.
You assume I am in love with the popularity system
You assume I am a Blizzard fanboy for life
You're wrong on all accounts and if you actually knew anything about me and my post history you'd know this. I don't have to prove any of the things you're challenging me on because I already have with my past actions.
I want people to stop being utter fools and use the misplaced rage for something that can actually effect a change. Raging at Blizzard is not an effective method for change. It just makes them less likely to care about what we think given how incredibly childish you're acting.
In the event they ever get around to releasing the tools necessary to appropriately create custom maps, then they can get some amount of praise. Until then I fail to see why they should be defended at all.
How long has it been since SCII was first started in development? Then they can't even finish all of it in their essentially unlimited time frame so release a sub-par product that barely works and isn't even the complete game, and the subsequent expansions for SCII will probably be at the same price with minor perks that should have already been included that probably won't work properly until the last game is released.
In order to claim that SC2 is sub-par you must first demonstrate that other games are better than it. So here's my challenge to you:
Name 5 games that contain a game editor or toolkit that include all of the games assets. This included program must ALSO be able to fully customize the content intended for the game AND for other genres. That means if the program is from an RPG game but can only make RPG mods (can't be adapted to RTS/TBS/FPS etc.) then clearly it is not a superior example.
We're comparing apples to apples here, so prove that SC2 is the sub-par waste of time you believe it to be.
TL;DR, but if you want to make real games, learn to make a game, stop fucking around with the limited editor, because your dream game with all these features and whatnots and wahoos isn't possible on this architecture. All custom mapping is good for are small mini-games and shit that doesn't require persistence.
That is your opinion, not mine. I disagree with you on every point and find that the SC2 editor is far more suited to those new to modding (which I obviously am) than a full SDK. I would much rather learn modding on this editor and later ADD SDKs to my repertoire than abandon this editor and start over.
That will happen until Proziac realizes Blizzard doesn't give a s$%# about him.
Because clearly this thread is all about getting Blizzard to love me. . . or not. . .
The problem is that there is a lot of pointless anger. Why rage at Blizzard when the real problem is you? You are unwilling to adapt to a system that CAN be manipulated in your favor without doing completely ridiculous things like map boosting and upload swapping then.
I could care less if Blizzard likes me or not. That wasn't the point of this thread. The whole point is to confront the negative environment you and other moaning mappers have created. Blizzard has absolutely nothing to do with your decision to become a black hole in the community.
Everything you do is a choice and right now you're choosing to pitch a fit.
hat do you have against rodrigo? he's funny man... he doesn't whine his maps are kick ass. well except for platform defense. i liked his banana cheaters game a lot though too bad people are a bunch of sheep and dont like to try new things heh. just like you
His pathetic attitude. Do I really need to say more?
Not in the slightest. There is a reason why you made 4 different threads that poked at Blizzard in a slightly different way. Slanted posts are not facts.
Blizzard is a stupid dummy head. . . YAY!!! Ok, pointlessly complaining is now out of the way.
If you've been busy complaining in one of the recent "ZOMG BLIZARD ARE TEH STUPID I HAIT SO MUCH!" threads you're an idiot. That's right, every. . . single. . . one of you. Idiots.
So what should you do about it? Work with me. Right now. Or else I will drive to your house and kill you. . . with a rusty spork. . . that's right. . . death threats on the internet. . . this just got serious!
ANYWAYS Everyone is being dumb and depressing and whiney and mopey and emo and. . . and. . .
. . . do I really need to go on?
How you can fight the system!
Step 1) Stop trying to get Blizzard's attention!
Blizzard doesn't play your map. Blizzard doesn't increase the popularity. Blizzard isn't your audience. So why do you all think Blizzard is the group you should be yelling and screaming at? Clearly it is possible to find and play your map, but your audience doesn't know it. Why? Because you are completely ignoring your audience.
Step 2) Educate yourself (stop being idiots)
Now that you know you're all stupid and that yelling at Blizzard isn't the solution, what CAN we do? Stop being lazy! If you have a published map and you didn't make at least 3 Project Threads (each on a different site) a YouTube video and at least one other medium for getting attention (blog, website, forum, etc.) then you're doing it wrong. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say it's YOUR fault no one is playing your map. The times have changed and you need to adapt. There are plenty of people willing to help make proper advertising tools. Take advantage of this!
But there is one very important thing that needs to be addressed: your map might suck.
Yep, I said it. Your map might be a complete waste of your time. No amount of boosting or advertising or hacking will change that. Most of you aren't being honest with yourself. If your map sucks, you need to figure it out as soon as possible and do something about it. I don't care how much you love your idea, if it sucks, you have to be able to admit it. You can't rely on luck to get your map where you want it to be.
Most importantly, you need to have access to a second opinion you trust. You will NOT create a good map entirely on your own. If there are teams of talented mappers that are abandoning projects left and right clearly we all know how many abandoned solo projects must be out there.
Step 3) Set your goals
Almost all of you fail to ask yourself 3 questions that determine everything about your map:
Who is the map for?
Why are you making it?
Can this map actually do what you want it to?
STOP FOCUSING ON THE POPULARITY BAR
It is pathetic how many of you complain about not having a popular map without realizing your map simply can't be popular. Given how the system is setup you can't assume that your map is going to be popular just because people enjoy playing it.
Consider most arcade-esque games (Bejeweled is a good example). These kinds of games aren't designed to bring the masses together into a community. They're highly replayable games that pass the time. If you don't have the time to play a more serious game, you probably look to single player games that will fill the 10mins until you have to go to blahdy blah with John Doe.
It's foolish to believe that your game is failing if it isn't at the top of the popularity system. Chances are it'll be on page 5 billion and 2 because anyone playing it won't actually give credit towards its popularity. That doesn't mean the popularity system is broken or that Blizzard is a big evil Jew.
Answering these questions void at least half of the whining you're currently doing. Be realistic, not every map needs to be massively popular and most obviously shouldn't be popular.
Step 4) Work with me
By now, I'm hoping the reality of the situation is starting to sink in: you're wasting your efforts in the wrong areas. I can help. I've been trying to do this for a while now, but obviously I wasn't direct enough.
I want to create 4 things:
Collaborative Tutorials
I think by now most people will agree that I'm pretty good at making tutorials. While difficult, my tutorials are easy to follow. Why is that important? Because I want to make more and I need help. Obviously I don't know everything about the editor, but there are people out there who know many things I'd like to teach but lack the knowledge to do so.
What's the plan?
I'm going to make at least 1 new tutorial a week for the Data Editor. I will start with 1 every 2 weeks while organizing these systems, but I want to get back to my old schedule.
THE CATCH: I will only do this if people step forward to help me create additional tutorials for Triggers, Terrain, Modelling and so forth.
I know most people don't like tutorials because they don't look forward to explaining to everyone how to do something, especially if you find it hard to teach others. I will provide tutorial templates that have all the pretty colors that I use in mine and solid structure that you will follow. This will cut down the work that you have to do.
But wait! There's more! I'll help proof the tutorial! All you have to worry about is getting the knowledge down in written format and then I'll make sure people can understand it. Not only will tutorials be less of a hassle to create if you work with me, but you'll develop an important skill that every major gaming company is looking for: Communication.
Project Support Group(s)
I know there are already forum sections devoted to this, but I feel it could use more structure and attention. Most people drop their project in there and wait for people to tell them what to fix. They don't go to other projects and give back. That's a problem.
I bet most people would love to know what some of the more prominent figures think about their project. At the same time, I'm, sure EVERYONE could provide at least SOME kind of constructive advice. You don't have to be a modder to recognize when something looks fun to you. There are even fewer qualifications for being able to say "I think this sucks." We need more of this. Not because negativity is a good thing, but because most projects aren't getting the proper shake down they need. If we want better maps we need to take our feedback more seriously!
What's the plan?
I get a LOT of messages from people asking me to help them with this or beta test that. People like to know what I think about their map, especially how to make it cooler Data-wise. I'm sure there are other mappers out there who get the same requests that I do. So let's do something about that.
Once a week I'll go through the various forum sections and PMs I get with the sole purpose of helping people improve their map. This includes everything from testing the map to providing mini-tutorials on how to implement features I think might improve your map.
THE CATCH: I want at least 2 other people who will run through the maps with me. You need to be knowledgeable in at least one section of the editor (Data Editor excluded).
The idea is we hop in skype, run through a list of new projects that have been posted and give a rough impression, suggest tweaks and even explain how to implement some of them if necessary. With a well-rounded group we’d be able to cover all aspects of the project and stimulate the community. It’s also really nice to get feedback as a mapper.
A caveat: if you post your project without giving other mappers feedback, we’ll ignore your project. I support group efforts and selfish individuals will be left behind. It’s not that hard to spend 5-10mins helping your fellow mapper out.
Even if I don't accept your offer to help in one of the above areas (I WILL be selective, I want dedicated and experienced people driving this effort), you can still help. If you aren't aware, SC2Mapster is considered THE place to go for SC2 Mapping information. Ironically, it is also considered the smallest and whiniest lot. How did that happen? We didn't set standards.
If you are complaining about this and moaning about that, this site isn't the place for you. We have a reputation as a reliable source of information, but we falter in every way outside of that. Many of you even believe the community is dying and you're right! There isn't a strong sense of community here and outside of hard mapping facts, there isn't much to do. Heck, the Mapster stream sometimes doesn't even hit the double digits! What's up with that?
I guarantee you that if onetwo or Helral or myself had decided to make our home at some other site, Mapster would be dead and that site would have the spotlight. This site sprang up from the helpful tutorials and knowledge early members provided, but it can only thrive through the community.
Stop being idiots. Stop complaining about trivial things. You are embarrassing yourself and this community with your childish tantrums. If you want Blizzard to care about what you think, show them you're not petty fools butthurt over your lack of success. The popularity system is broken, but that need not prevent us from enjoying the many opportunities available to us.
If you support this thread and what I want to do, apply here, through PMs, through any means you know of communicating with me.
After reading this, if you actually read the entire post, SHOW your support. Apologize to Blizzard, apologize to the community for your ridiculous shenanigans and let the community know you're better than the popularity system.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Boy are you late to the party. . .
Oh no not a necro! AHHHHH
The Project Support Group just went live. The other two groups will follow suit in the coming weeks :)
Clearly it is you who has a very vague understanding of me given that you are completely oblivious to me and my stance.
You assume I believe SC is the best.
You assume I am in love with the popularity system
You assume I am a Blizzard fanboy for life
You're wrong on all accounts and if you actually knew anything about me and my post history you'd know this. I don't have to prove any of the things you're challenging me on because I already have with my past actions.
I want people to stop being utter fools and use the misplaced rage for something that can actually effect a change. Raging at Blizzard is not an effective method for change. It just makes them less likely to care about what we think given how incredibly childish you're acting.
It's already being started. I'm organizing the groups behind the scenes as we flame ;P
In order to claim that SC2 is sub-par you must first demonstrate that other games are better than it. So here's my challenge to you: Name 5 games that contain a game editor or toolkit that include all of the games assets. This included program must ALSO be able to fully customize the content intended for the game AND for other genres. That means if the program is from an RPG game but can only make RPG mods (can't be adapted to RTS/TBS/FPS etc.) then clearly it is not a superior example.
We're comparing apples to apples here, so prove that SC2 is the sub-par waste of time you believe it to be.
That is your opinion, not mine. I disagree with you on every point and find that the SC2 editor is far more suited to those new to modding (which I obviously am) than a full SDK. I would much rather learn modding on this editor and later ADD SDKs to my repertoire than abandon this editor and start over.
Oh. . . you're THAT guy. . . Suddenly everything you say becomes so trivial.
Because clearly this thread is all about getting Blizzard to love me. . . or not. . .
The problem is that there is a lot of pointless anger. Why rage at Blizzard when the real problem is you? You are unwilling to adapt to a system that CAN be manipulated in your favor without doing completely ridiculous things like map boosting and upload swapping then.
I could care less if Blizzard likes me or not. That wasn't the point of this thread. The whole point is to confront the negative environment you and other moaning mappers have created. Blizzard has absolutely nothing to do with your decision to become a black hole in the community.
Everything you do is a choice and right now you're choosing to pitch a fit.
His pathetic attitude. Do I really need to say more?
Oh yes. . . it was so passionate. . . unfortunately I don't know what it is that I am enjoying so thoroughly :S
Not in the slightest. There is a reason why you made 4 different threads that poked at Blizzard in a slightly different way. Slanted posts are not facts.
No, Rodrigo, you are a whiner. Way to completely miss the point of this thread.
You fail, try again.
@ Keyeszx - If you aren't already, you can help out in the project threads. Give people some quality feedback :)
Blizzard is a stupid dummy head. . . YAY!!! Ok, pointlessly complaining is now out of the way.
If you've been busy complaining in one of the recent "ZOMG BLIZARD ARE TEH STUPID I HAIT SO MUCH!" threads you're an idiot. That's right, every. . . single. . . one of you. Idiots.
So what should you do about it? Work with me. Right now. Or else I will drive to your house and kill you. . . with a rusty spork. . . that's right. . . death threats on the internet. . . this just got serious!
ANYWAYS Everyone is being dumb and depressing and whiney and mopey and emo and. . . and. . . . . . do I really need to go on?
How you can fight the system!
Step 1) Stop trying to get Blizzard's attention!
Blizzard doesn't play your map. Blizzard doesn't increase the popularity. Blizzard isn't your audience. So why do you all think Blizzard is the group you should be yelling and screaming at? Clearly it is possible to find and play your map, but your audience doesn't know it. Why? Because you are completely ignoring your audience.
Step 2) Educate yourself (stop being idiots)
Now that you know you're all stupid and that yelling at Blizzard isn't the solution, what CAN we do? Stop being lazy! If you have a published map and you didn't make at least 3 Project Threads (each on a different site) a YouTube video and at least one other medium for getting attention (blog, website, forum, etc.) then you're doing it wrong. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say it's YOUR fault no one is playing your map. The times have changed and you need to adapt. There are plenty of people willing to help make proper advertising tools. Take advantage of this!
But there is one very important thing that needs to be addressed: your map might suck.
Yep, I said it. Your map might be a complete waste of your time. No amount of boosting or advertising or hacking will change that. Most of you aren't being honest with yourself. If your map sucks, you need to figure it out as soon as possible and do something about it. I don't care how much you love your idea, if it sucks, you have to be able to admit it. You can't rely on luck to get your map where you want it to be.
Most importantly, you need to have access to a second opinion you trust. You will NOT create a good map entirely on your own. If there are teams of talented mappers that are abandoning projects left and right clearly we all know how many abandoned solo projects must be out there.
Step 3) Set your goals
Almost all of you fail to ask yourself 3 questions that determine everything about your map:
STOP FOCUSING ON THE POPULARITY BAR
It is pathetic how many of you complain about not having a popular map without realizing your map simply can't be popular. Given how the system is setup you can't assume that your map is going to be popular just because people enjoy playing it.
Consider most arcade-esque games (Bejeweled is a good example). These kinds of games aren't designed to bring the masses together into a community. They're highly replayable games that pass the time. If you don't have the time to play a more serious game, you probably look to single player games that will fill the 10mins until you have to go to blahdy blah with John Doe.
It's foolish to believe that your game is failing if it isn't at the top of the popularity system. Chances are it'll be on page 5 billion and 2 because anyone playing it won't actually give credit towards its popularity. That doesn't mean the popularity system is broken or that Blizzard is a big evil Jew.
Answering these questions void at least half of the whining you're currently doing. Be realistic, not every map needs to be massively popular and most obviously shouldn't be popular.
Step 4) Work with me
By now, I'm hoping the reality of the situation is starting to sink in: you're wasting your efforts in the wrong areas. I can help. I've been trying to do this for a while now, but obviously I wasn't direct enough.
I want to create 4 things:
Collaborative Tutorials
I think by now most people will agree that I'm pretty good at making tutorials. While difficult, my tutorials are easy to follow. Why is that important? Because I want to make more and I need help. Obviously I don't know everything about the editor, but there are people out there who know many things I'd like to teach but lack the knowledge to do so.
What's the plan?
I'm going to make at least 1 new tutorial a week for the Data Editor. I will start with 1 every 2 weeks while organizing these systems, but I want to get back to my old schedule.
THE CATCH: I will only do this if people step forward to help me create additional tutorials for Triggers, Terrain, Modelling and so forth.
I know most people don't like tutorials because they don't look forward to explaining to everyone how to do something, especially if you find it hard to teach others. I will provide tutorial templates that have all the pretty colors that I use in mine and solid structure that you will follow. This will cut down the work that you have to do.
But wait! There's more! I'll help proof the tutorial! All you have to worry about is getting the knowledge down in written format and then I'll make sure people can understand it. Not only will tutorials be less of a hassle to create if you work with me, but you'll develop an important skill that every major gaming company is looking for: Communication.
Project Support Group(s)
I know there are already forum sections devoted to this, but I feel it could use more structure and attention. Most people drop their project in there and wait for people to tell them what to fix. They don't go to other projects and give back. That's a problem.
I bet most people would love to know what some of the more prominent figures think about their project. At the same time, I'm, sure EVERYONE could provide at least SOME kind of constructive advice. You don't have to be a modder to recognize when something looks fun to you. There are even fewer qualifications for being able to say "I think this sucks." We need more of this. Not because negativity is a good thing, but because most projects aren't getting the proper shake down they need. If we want better maps we need to take our feedback more seriously!
What's the plan?
I get a LOT of messages from people asking me to help them with this or beta test that. People like to know what I think about their map, especially how to make it cooler Data-wise. I'm sure there are other mappers out there who get the same requests that I do. So let's do something about that.
Once a week I'll go through the various forum sections and PMs I get with the sole purpose of helping people improve their map. This includes everything from testing the map to providing mini-tutorials on how to implement features I think might improve your map.
THE CATCH: I want at least 2 other people who will run through the maps with me. You need to be knowledgeable in at least one section of the editor (Data Editor excluded).
The idea is we hop in skype, run through a list of new projects that have been posted and give a rough impression, suggest tweaks and even explain how to implement some of them if necessary. With a well-rounded group we’d be able to cover all aspects of the project and stimulate the community. It’s also really nice to get feedback as a mapper.
A caveat: if you post your project without giving other mappers feedback, we’ll ignore your project. I support group efforts and selfish individuals will be left behind. It’s not that hard to spend 5-10mins helping your fellow mapper out.
Review Panel
I’ve already explained this in detail here.
A Reliable Community
Even if I don't accept your offer to help in one of the above areas (I WILL be selective, I want dedicated and experienced people driving this effort), you can still help. If you aren't aware, SC2Mapster is considered THE place to go for SC2 Mapping information. Ironically, it is also considered the smallest and whiniest lot. How did that happen? We didn't set standards.
If you are complaining about this and moaning about that, this site isn't the place for you. We have a reputation as a reliable source of information, but we falter in every way outside of that. Many of you even believe the community is dying and you're right! There isn't a strong sense of community here and outside of hard mapping facts, there isn't much to do. Heck, the Mapster stream sometimes doesn't even hit the double digits! What's up with that?
I guarantee you that if onetwo or Helral or myself had decided to make our home at some other site, Mapster would be dead and that site would have the spotlight. This site sprang up from the helpful tutorials and knowledge early members provided, but it can only thrive through the community.
Stop being idiots. Stop complaining about trivial things. You are embarrassing yourself and this community with your childish tantrums. If you want Blizzard to care about what you think, show them you're not petty fools butthurt over your lack of success. The popularity system is broken, but that need not prevent us from enjoying the many opportunities available to us.
If you support this thread and what I want to do, apply here, through PMs, through any means you know of communicating with me.
After reading this, if you actually read the entire post, SHOW your support. Apologize to Blizzard, apologize to the community for your ridiculous shenanigans and let the community know you're better than the popularity system.