@AtikLYar: Go Yeah, I said I'd work on it. But since the beginning of this project I'm the one updating the map file, and right now I dont have time to work on both tasks, so feel free to go on and abuse it :-)
@AtikLYar: Go uuuhhh... oohhh... mom just let me sleep for another 10 minutes ok?
Now seriously, How is the blueprint going? This thread has accumulated huge amounts of ideas and we've been away from it for some time, its kind of hard to define where exaclty we stand and go on.
@DrSuperEvil: Go No, Marauders are better against armored. While the race will have only mechanic units, both light and armored will be present. We have to avoid situations where this race will be uneven depending on which race it is facing.
@DrSuperEvil: Go By late game you wont waste your mind control on Marines and Zerglings, just like nobody uses Neural Parasite on cheap units, you're going for Colossi, Siege Tanks, Thors and air units. If the spellcaster is cheap other players wont like to loose expensive units to them.
One more thing we have to take into consideration: The standard races may have problems fighting this new one. As one small example Ghost's Snipe will be useless. We also have to plan for other things like Point Defense Drone, how many unit types will launch destructible missiles? Many small details may arise, I guess we should take note of them.
@DrSuperEvil: Go We can always swap abilities like Blizzard did. I would'nt give a mind control ability to a cheap unit, even if the research is only avaiable in late game. The player will still be able to spam the unit and mind control lots of powerful units. An early spellcaster should only have minor buffs/debuffs or terrain effects, like Guardian Shield and Force Field.
I think about unit "slots" more than pure tiers. I try to compare slots among standard races and this new race. "basic combat units" are marines/zealots/zerglings/scout drones. "second combat units" are marauders/roaches/stalkers/SCUs. There's an additional slot in this tier, but the roles are different, this slot is filled by reapers/banelings/sentries/?. None of these units is a standard combat unit, even banelings have to suicide so they provide a different strategy. This is why I was worried about the SCU and Clanker being in the same tier. The additional tier 1/1.5 unit must be chosen carefully to fill a role this race needs right now.
@DrSuperEvil: Go Yes, but we need to define how early players have access to Clankers. As soon as they have both drones and SCUs? I guess it should be later in the game.
@yukaboy: Go You can use the Laser Drill beam for that. Does it have a small AOE?
@DrSuperEvil: Go I know, I was talking about the melee tech tree. One more thing: we can't have both the SCU and the Clanker, one of them has to be moved to higher tier. They fill the same unit "slot" right now.
@yukaboy: Go Good job. I'd merge some roles there, the Oracle fills the Air Spellcaster role, just like the Viper or Raven, its abilities are focused against economy only because Blizzard thought Protoss lack harass strategies, its not supposed to be a specific role. By going through that file I'd say the Scout Drone shouldn't be able to attack air, leave that to the SCU. Make the Scout Drone a short-ranged but fast unit.
As you said mid game and late game units need to be revised, maybe 1 or 2 should get scrapped or replaced by new units. You forgot that all transport units have additional abilities, like SuperEvil said the Medivac also fills the medic role. Our trnasport unit must also provide something else. The satandard Hauler can launch units, my idea was different, we have to decide which one we're going to use. I suggest including both in the map file so we can use them and choose one later.
EDIT: What about placing all the units in the same role side by side in that file? Or 3 columns, one for each standard race, I think it would be even easier for us to compare them.
@yukaboy: Go Although is good, I'd say a comparison with each races' unit of that role/tier would be better. Like 1st infantry unit: Marine vs Zergling vs Zealot vs Scout Drone. I think it would be better for us to think about balance, roles and so on. There's no need to add a description like you did, focus on gameplay info like Late Game: Charge ability (w/ speed increase). We can do the same for all tiers/roles to see how we're shaping this new race.
@yukaboy: Go Although is good, I'd say a comparison with each races' unit of that role/tier would be better. Like 1st infantry unit: Marine vs Zergling vs Zealot vs Scout Drone. I think it would be better for us to think about balance, roles and so on. There's no need to add a description like you did, focus on gameplay info like Late Game: Charge ability (w/ speed increase). We can do the same for all tiers/roles to see how we're shaping this new race.
@yukaboy: Go I like the idea. creating some sort of table comparing the 4 races and their roles. I can help but not right now, maybe next month. We need to compare tiers and the standard strategies used by players, and we must take HoTS into consideration.
@DrSuperEvil: I'd consider Brood Lords and Swarm Hosts as artillery (siege) units. The Utralisk is more a powerful tanker unit. Protoss have Colossi and to some extent Void Rays. Terrans have Siege Tanks and I can't think of another. I'd say we can go ground siege or air siege, but depending on each unit's limitations we can go both ways.
@AtikLYar: Go Yeah, I said I'd work on it. But since the beginning of this project I'm the one updating the map file, and right now I dont have time to work on both tasks, so feel free to go on and abuse it :-)
@AtikLYar: Go uuuhhh... oohhh... mom just let me sleep for another 10 minutes ok?
Now seriously, How is the blueprint going? This thread has accumulated huge amounts of ideas and we've been away from it for some time, its kind of hard to define where exaclty we stand and go on.
@DrSuperEvil: Go No, Marauders are better against armored. While the race will have only mechanic units, both light and armored will be present. We have to avoid situations where this race will be uneven depending on which race it is facing.
@DrSuperEvil: Go By late game you wont waste your mind control on Marines and Zerglings, just like nobody uses Neural Parasite on cheap units, you're going for Colossi, Siege Tanks, Thors and air units. If the spellcaster is cheap other players wont like to loose expensive units to them.
One more thing we have to take into consideration: The standard races may have problems fighting this new one. As one small example Ghost's Snipe will be useless. We also have to plan for other things like Point Defense Drone, how many unit types will launch destructible missiles? Many small details may arise, I guess we should take note of them.
@DrSuperEvil: Go We can always swap abilities like Blizzard did. I would'nt give a mind control ability to a cheap unit, even if the research is only avaiable in late game. The player will still be able to spam the unit and mind control lots of powerful units. An early spellcaster should only have minor buffs/debuffs or terrain effects, like Guardian Shield and Force Field.
I think about unit "slots" more than pure tiers. I try to compare slots among standard races and this new race. "basic combat units" are marines/zealots/zerglings/scout drones. "second combat units" are marauders/roaches/stalkers/SCUs. There's an additional slot in this tier, but the roles are different, this slot is filled by reapers/banelings/sentries/?. None of these units is a standard combat unit, even banelings have to suicide so they provide a different strategy. This is why I was worried about the SCU and Clanker being in the same tier. The additional tier 1/1.5 unit must be chosen carefully to fill a role this race needs right now.
That would make it extremely effective against Zerglings and Zealots. I don't think this is a good idea.
@DrSuperEvil: Go Yes, but we need to define how early players have access to Clankers. As soon as they have both drones and SCUs? I guess it should be later in the game.
@yukaboy: Go You can use the Laser Drill beam for that. Does it have a small AOE?
@DrSuperEvil: Go I know, I was talking about the melee tech tree. One more thing: we can't have both the SCU and the Clanker, one of them has to be moved to higher tier. They fill the same unit "slot" right now.
@yukaboy: Go Good job. I'd merge some roles there, the Oracle fills the Air Spellcaster role, just like the Viper or Raven, its abilities are focused against economy only because Blizzard thought Protoss lack harass strategies, its not supposed to be a specific role. By going through that file I'd say the Scout Drone shouldn't be able to attack air, leave that to the SCU. Make the Scout Drone a short-ranged but fast unit.
As you said mid game and late game units need to be revised, maybe 1 or 2 should get scrapped or replaced by new units. You forgot that all transport units have additional abilities, like SuperEvil said the Medivac also fills the medic role. Our trnasport unit must also provide something else. The satandard Hauler can launch units, my idea was different, we have to decide which one we're going to use. I suggest including both in the map file so we can use them and choose one later.
EDIT: What about placing all the units in the same role side by side in that file? Or 3 columns, one for each standard race, I think it would be even easier for us to compare them.
@yukaboy: Go Although is good, I'd say a comparison with each races' unit of that role/tier would be better. Like 1st infantry unit: Marine vs Zergling vs Zealot vs Scout Drone. I think it would be better for us to think about balance, roles and so on. There's no need to add a description like you did, focus on gameplay info like Late Game: Charge ability (w/ speed increase). We can do the same for all tiers/roles to see how we're shaping this new race.
@yukaboy: Go Although is good, I'd say a comparison with each races' unit of that role/tier would be better. Like 1st infantry unit: Marine vs Zergling vs Zealot vs Scout Drone. I think it would be better for us to think about balance, roles and so on. There's no need to add a description like you did, focus on gameplay info like Late Game: Charge ability (w/ speed increase). We can do the same for all tiers/roles to see how we're shaping this new race.
@yukaboy: Go I like the idea. creating some sort of table comparing the 4 races and their roles. I can help but not right now, maybe next month. We need to compare tiers and the standard strategies used by players, and we must take HoTS into consideration.
@DrSuperEvil: I'd consider Brood Lords and Swarm Hosts as artillery (siege) units. The Utralisk is more a powerful tanker unit. Protoss have Colossi and to some extent Void Rays. Terrans have Siege Tanks and I can't think of another. I'd say we can go ground siege or air siege, but depending on each unit's limitations we can go both ways.
@yukaboy: I agree. Some roles simply must be filled, otherwise we will see this race beaten to extinction by the others.