The Starcraft II map editor is a complete nightmare to learn so i pass my idea to those who will listen (or read in this case)
So many people including myself are finding it difficult to beat protoss players, especially during the later stages of the game. I believe that a specific map to help Terran players fight your typical Protoss Ball would be a way to improve the win rates of Terran against protoss. I am however a newbie and thus i am unaware of the wide range of maps that have been created and perhaps someone has had this idea and done it already in which i implore you to point me in that direction.
The idea would be similar to the Marine Split Training (which was extremely helpful). The terrain should be flat. We will assume a bio army (so a combination of stim Marine, Marauders, medivacs) along with Ghosts (with Cloak) and Vikings against a Protoss army of Zealots (with charge), Blink Stalkers, Collosi (with the thermal lances), High Templar (with storm) and Observers (with the gravitation booster thing). From here i can see two methods of efficient training.
1. Levels. You start with your set army size and progressively fight larger and larger protoss balls
2. Both armies have set sizes and players continuously try to become as cost effective as possible
As for the army sizes i have no clue as to their sizes/values which would be realistic and/or ideal.
The Terran player should have 2 command centers full of energy worth of scans (this might need tweaking but imitates the limitations of scans. even if you have several orbital commands you can't spam scans until the end of time) available.
The actual training should be as follows: scan, kill the observers with their vikings, walk forward with ghosts and snipe/EMP the High templar before EMPing the protoss ball and finally engaging. The bio army should be kiting while the vikings remain in position to deal damage to the colossi. AFAIK this is what should be happening during the engagement, but as i have mentioned i am a new player and thus not sure if this is the correct method (although it seems to be correct). If it is incorrect then some adjustments should be made.
You level up if you wipe out the enemy army or the training session ends when one players supply is zero (depending on which method was taken).
Ideally the protoss army should move around, split high templar and cast storm if the Terran thinks he can just charge in headlong. Further improvements could be storming cloaked ghosts (as sometimes the protoss will blind storm/notice the blur). the protoss should not ever attack the terran on their own - although in a proper game this is certainly a possibility this is a training map and thus the terran player should be given as much time as they feel necessary to hotkey/mentally prepare/take medication. I assume programming such AI would be difficult but some of you out there like challenges.
If there are any questions feel free to ask, constructive criticism is appreciated and
Hi nice post! I want to say that I am making a map that loosely fits in to your idea. I say loosely because it will not be exactly the like the Current Hots Terran; However, It will be a Terran vs Protoss siege survival map where you under constant attack and I will tell you this the Protoss will be your worst nightmare. This will be a map to put your skills to the test. Sure their will be some changes to the Terran arsenal but is it not going to be a complete overhaul that will drastically changes the dynamic of the game and beside Lotv is still in the works so who know how the game will shift when that is released. Here is some picture of the game as of right now. Also some of the upgrades from the Terran campaign are researchable in this map as well and Protoss will have there tricks too.
Your going to have a lot of issues trying to tackle it the way you have for many many reasons.
Firstly mappers extremely aren't fond of having some new coming in to ask them to do something for them epecially when they haven't even bothered in the slightest to get off their own butt and try themselves. Especially when you very first line is equivalent to "I'm too lazy to try this and a lack of practice map is the source of terrans issues" (try the bnet qq forum if you wish to continue down this road). There is going to be even less interest when it comes to a melee style mas as mappers have generally moved into customs in order to move away from ladder. By far the large majority of the practice maps already out there are thus created by ladder players; however, you actually get much further ahead using that same amount of time to actually play normal games to practice instead of trying to create a practice sim. As for existing practice maps, you haven't heard of playing with a practice partner, building multiple armies at will and test engagements?
The other issue is again linked to that newbie mentality of trying to fix one whole issue instead of breaking it down to see the much smaller and far more important steps. For instance, almost every single useful practice map out there only even focuses on 1 or barely 2 simple techniques at a time; not an entire games collection of events and even the 5+ techniques needed alone just for take out a toss deathball.
The next biggest issues isn't gonna be the actual programming of the toss ai which would be relatively easy, its again going to be trying to dumb the ai down to a level that bad players can actually do something against. If you have seen any of automaton ai demos you'll see that ai micro can be set to be basically perfect and far exceeds anything even the top pro's can do. Looking at the next step down from there, now you've got to make a sloppy ai that messes up and makes human errors and in reality in a real game, human error on the toss side is the only thing that would even allow you to win vs a deathball. Even if you broken the practice map down to something as simple as two armies with the toss deathball just straightup engaging you in a straight line, your practicing the wrong thing and will loss almost every time; If you actually look at any pro game they don't straightup engage, they dance back and forth waiting again for human error to kick in so they can take advantage, again using one technique at a time.
Having actually been a trainer who has taken several players from bronze to plat in usually around 2 weeks, I can tell you if your losing to what you think is a toss deathball in anything below diamond league, then there are far more things that you did wrong in the first 10 minutes of the game that are actually the cause of your loss.
And...... Hi, welcome to mapster. Feel free to ask questions, as people around will be willing to answer them when they can, most of the time at least.
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The Starcraft II map editor is a complete nightmare to learn so i pass my idea to those who will listen (or read in this case)
So many people including myself are finding it difficult to beat protoss players, especially during the later stages of the game. I believe that a specific map to help Terran players fight your typical Protoss Ball would be a way to improve the win rates of Terran against protoss. I am however a newbie and thus i am unaware of the wide range of maps that have been created and perhaps someone has had this idea and done it already in which i implore you to point me in that direction.
The idea would be similar to the Marine Split Training (which was extremely helpful). The terrain should be flat. We will assume a bio army (so a combination of stim Marine, Marauders, medivacs) along with Ghosts (with Cloak) and Vikings against a Protoss army of Zealots (with charge), Blink Stalkers, Collosi (with the thermal lances), High Templar (with storm) and Observers (with the gravitation booster thing). From here i can see two methods of efficient training. 1. Levels. You start with your set army size and progressively fight larger and larger protoss balls 2. Both armies have set sizes and players continuously try to become as cost effective as possible As for the army sizes i have no clue as to their sizes/values which would be realistic and/or ideal. The Terran player should have 2 command centers full of energy worth of scans (this might need tweaking but imitates the limitations of scans. even if you have several orbital commands you can't spam scans until the end of time) available.
The actual training should be as follows: scan, kill the observers with their vikings, walk forward with ghosts and snipe/EMP the High templar before EMPing the protoss ball and finally engaging. The bio army should be kiting while the vikings remain in position to deal damage to the colossi. AFAIK this is what should be happening during the engagement, but as i have mentioned i am a new player and thus not sure if this is the correct method (although it seems to be correct). If it is incorrect then some adjustments should be made.
You level up if you wipe out the enemy army or the training session ends when one players supply is zero (depending on which method was taken). Ideally the protoss army should move around, split high templar and cast storm if the Terran thinks he can just charge in headlong. Further improvements could be storming cloaked ghosts (as sometimes the protoss will blind storm/notice the blur). the protoss should not ever attack the terran on their own - although in a proper game this is certainly a possibility this is a training map and thus the terran player should be given as much time as they feel necessary to hotkey/mentally prepare/take medication. I assume programming such AI would be difficult but some of you out there like challenges.
If there are any questions feel free to ask, constructive criticism is appreciated and
Hi nice post! I want to say that I am making a map that loosely fits in to your idea. I say loosely because it will not be exactly the like the Current Hots Terran; However, It will be a Terran vs Protoss siege survival map where you under constant attack and I will tell you this the Protoss will be your worst nightmare. This will be a map to put your skills to the test. Sure their will be some changes to the Terran arsenal but is it not going to be a complete overhaul that will drastically changes the dynamic of the game and beside Lotv is still in the works so who know how the game will shift when that is released. Here is some picture of the game as of right now. Also some of the upgrades from the Terran campaign are researchable in this map as well and Protoss will have there tricks too.
Your going to have a lot of issues trying to tackle it the way you have for many many reasons.
Firstly mappers extremely aren't fond of having some new coming in to ask them to do something for them epecially when they haven't even bothered in the slightest to get off their own butt and try themselves. Especially when you very first line is equivalent to "I'm too lazy to try this and a lack of practice map is the source of terrans issues" (try the bnet qq forum if you wish to continue down this road). There is going to be even less interest when it comes to a melee style mas as mappers have generally moved into customs in order to move away from ladder. By far the large majority of the practice maps already out there are thus created by ladder players; however, you actually get much further ahead using that same amount of time to actually play normal games to practice instead of trying to create a practice sim. As for existing practice maps, you haven't heard of playing with a practice partner, building multiple armies at will and test engagements?
The other issue is again linked to that newbie mentality of trying to fix one whole issue instead of breaking it down to see the much smaller and far more important steps. For instance, almost every single useful practice map out there only even focuses on 1 or barely 2 simple techniques at a time; not an entire games collection of events and even the 5+ techniques needed alone just for take out a toss deathball.
The next biggest issues isn't gonna be the actual programming of the toss ai which would be relatively easy, its again going to be trying to dumb the ai down to a level that bad players can actually do something against. If you have seen any of automaton ai demos you'll see that ai micro can be set to be basically perfect and far exceeds anything even the top pro's can do. Looking at the next step down from there, now you've got to make a sloppy ai that messes up and makes human errors and in reality in a real game, human error on the toss side is the only thing that would even allow you to win vs a deathball. Even if you broken the practice map down to something as simple as two armies with the toss deathball just straightup engaging you in a straight line, your practicing the wrong thing and will loss almost every time; If you actually look at any pro game they don't straightup engage, they dance back and forth waiting again for human error to kick in so they can take advantage, again using one technique at a time.
Having actually been a trainer who has taken several players from bronze to plat in usually around 2 weeks, I can tell you if your losing to what you think is a toss deathball in anything below diamond league, then there are far more things that you did wrong in the first 10 minutes of the game that are actually the cause of your loss.
And...... Hi, welcome to mapster. Feel free to ask questions, as people around will be willing to answer them when they can, most of the time at least.