Hey guys, I'm doing a little mod and I've been trying to rebuild the micro possibilities of the Viking to ressemble a bit more the old BW air fighters, which where far more responsive to micro than the actual Vikings (which are basically semi-static long range fighters). I've already tweaked weapon values and the unit becomes more interesting, specially if we also give it max acceleration.
However, with max acceleration by default, there is no penalty for not microing the vikings, as they are always responsive. I would like to create a Behaviour that sets the acceleration to low values when the unit is Idle. Creating the behaviour is really easy, however I don't know how to set it to apply when the unit is attacking but not moving without messing up with the desired micro (attack-move, constant control) because the viking always slows down a bit when attacking and that probably counts as idling, even for very little.
There are already some validators related with air attack - idling that are possibly related with that, but I'm a bit noob with validators.
I would like to know how to apply an easy behaviour to Idle units without messing too much. Basically:
If the unit is idle/idling attack (static attack) - has low accceleration
If the unit is moving at max speed and moving-attacking, - max acceleration
What I've thought is:
Set the standard acceleration of the unit at maximum.
Create the behaviour (a debuff) that sets a low acceleration value for the unit that lasts for let's say 5s.
applies IF (validator) unit is idling / idle and attacking air for more/not moving for more than a short time (so if you are constantly microing, acceleration doesn't decrease)
The first case (total idle) validator should be really easy > Unit has no orders validator. If true - apply behaviour.
The problem I see there is in the idle and attacking air case (when the units attack without moving) because of the default attack type of the Viking, even if I've disabled backswing and damage point to make it respond immediately.
Anyone with experience could help me a bit with this?
Is there a way to implement this kind of behaviour directly related with movement variables?
All the suggestions are welcome.
EDIT: I don't know why I can structure this as a list, sorry.
Yeah Ahli, I know that. And the easy solution I found was about messing lot with weapon values, eliminiating almost all values that bring firing delays and touching some flags. What I would like to achieve was a mechanic that could be applied to maintain maximum acceleration with moving shot,but penalizing units that have to get idle to shot or aren't microed, because they get more exposed because of slow acceleration when fleeing. The thing was about making air units max acceleration when microed correctly and low acceleration when idling/idle shooting.
It's basically what you've studied and worked a 1000 times for Starbow with moving shot/acceleration and movement mechanics, allowing an interesting control that rewards micro. Simply I wanted to know if this could be done via validators/behaviours to idealy create coded mouvement by behaviour/simple set of effects so we can still maintain some weapon values or directly implement that kind of mouvment type to other units without altering weapon, because I saw that validator names in the editor so it means that devs thought about that. Well, maybe the two or three clever ones.
And @Superdevil, yes, was that. Micro = reward.
I hate actual vikings a bit :P. They could be more interesting in movement and micro in exchange for 1/2 range, and lategame air vs terran could be a bit more viable because of reduced range. Air micro battles T_T
BTW, this is right now a simple theory editor question. Thanks for the answers.
With changing almost all the weapon values about delays, flags and movement allowed the result is pretty decent for my mod. Probably with some tweaks to accelerations it's just rounded up without messing with complicated set of effects/validators. I like my mobile vikings. ^^
Have two Buff behaviours, the first uses a Combine validator that combines a Unit Compare Speed and a Unit Order Queue validator. The first buff when active applies the second that then slows your acceleration down. As you have not given sufficient details this is all I can say for now.
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Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
I'm gonna explain a bit since this could be interesting for some users.
What I'm experimenting with (the intended) is a behaviour/validator mechanic that plays with acceleration values/movement values and interacts more or less with moving-shot for air fighters.
Let's take a unit like the viking, a basic air fighter. It has by default a 2.625 acceleration. In this case, let's give it maximum acceleration for the start (1000) so it's slighly more responsive to movement.
Now, a behaviour: "Engines off" that reduces acceleration to, let's say, 1.5. This behaviour should only activate when the unit stops moving completely - no micro situations, static fighting . So basically, if you forget your air fighters micro, retreat is going to mean a bigger exposure, and you aren't going to chase well.
From what you've said, a simple speed compare validator should be enough. But the problem I see there is that "gliding and stopping" mechanic that happens on air attacks. I'm not completely sure if changing all weapon values could do it to work well with a Speed compare validator like you said.
About moving shot, that's another question, and if you could provide you opinion on how to make it work better with this type of mechanic, this would be really appreciated.
Hey guys, I'm doing a little mod and I've been trying to rebuild the micro possibilities of the Viking to ressemble a bit more the old BW air fighters, which where far more responsive to micro than the actual Vikings (which are basically semi-static long range fighters). I've already tweaked weapon values and the unit becomes more interesting, specially if we also give it max acceleration.
However, with max acceleration by default, there is no penalty for not microing the vikings, as they are always responsive. I would like to create a Behaviour that sets the acceleration to low values when the unit is Idle. Creating the behaviour is really easy, however I don't know how to set it to apply when the unit is attacking but not moving without messing up with the desired micro (attack-move, constant control) because the viking always slows down a bit when attacking and that probably counts as idling, even for very little.
There are already some validators related with air attack - idling that are possibly related with that, but I'm a bit noob with validators. I would like to know how to apply an easy behaviour to Idle units without messing too much. Basically:
What I've thought is:
The first case (total idle) validator should be really easy > Unit has no orders validator. If true - apply behaviour. The problem I see there is in the idle and attacking air case (when the units attack without moving) because of the default attack type of the Viking, even if I've disabled backswing and damage point to make it respond immediately.
Anyone with experience could help me a bit with this? Is there a way to implement this kind of behaviour directly related with movement variables? All the suggestions are welcome.
EDIT: I don't know why I can structure this as a list, sorry.
So you want a behaviour to be added that does what? when the unit is attacking but not constantly moving?
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
Since you want something to be checked after the Viking shoots, then add that effect to its weapon.
Idling usually refers to a unit that has no order and just stands around, but you are refering to the time between the weapon damage points.
@Ahli634: Go
Yeah Ahli, I know that. And the easy solution I found was about messing lot with weapon values, eliminiating almost all values that bring firing delays and touching some flags. What I would like to achieve was a mechanic that could be applied to maintain maximum acceleration with moving shot,but penalizing units that have to get idle to shot or aren't microed, because they get more exposed because of slow acceleration when fleeing. The thing was about making air units max acceleration when microed correctly and low acceleration when idling/idle shooting.
It's basically what you've studied and worked a 1000 times for Starbow with moving shot/acceleration and movement mechanics, allowing an interesting control that rewards micro. Simply I wanted to know if this could be done via validators/behaviours to idealy create coded mouvement by behaviour/simple set of effects so we can still maintain some weapon values or directly implement that kind of mouvment type to other units without altering weapon, because I saw that validator names in the editor so it means that devs thought about that. Well, maybe the two or three clever ones.
And @Superdevil, yes, was that. Micro = reward.
I hate actual vikings a bit :P. They could be more interesting in movement and micro in exchange for 1/2 range, and lategame air vs terran could be a bit more viable because of reduced range. Air micro battles T_T BTW, this is right now a simple theory editor question. Thanks for the answers.
With changing almost all the weapon values about delays, flags and movement allowed the result is pretty decent for my mod. Probably with some tweaks to accelerations it's just rounded up without messing with complicated set of effects/validators. I like my mobile vikings. ^^
Have two Buff behaviours, the first uses a Combine validator that combines a Unit Compare Speed and a Unit Order Queue validator. The first buff when active applies the second that then slows your acceleration down. As you have not given sufficient details this is all I can say for now.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
@DrSuperEvil: Go
I'm gonna explain a bit since this could be interesting for some users. What I'm experimenting with (the intended) is a behaviour/validator mechanic that plays with acceleration values/movement values and interacts more or less with moving-shot for air fighters.
Let's take a unit like the viking, a basic air fighter. It has by default a 2.625 acceleration. In this case, let's give it maximum acceleration for the start (1000) so it's slighly more responsive to movement.
Now, a behaviour: "Engines off" that reduces acceleration to, let's say, 1.5. This behaviour should only activate when the unit stops moving completely - no micro situations, static fighting . So basically, if you forget your air fighters micro, retreat is going to mean a bigger exposure, and you aren't going to chase well.
From what you've said, a simple speed compare validator should be enough. But the problem I see there is that "gliding and stopping" mechanic that happens on air attacks. I'm not completely sure if changing all weapon values could do it to work well with a Speed compare validator like you said.
About moving shot, that's another question, and if you could provide you opinion on how to make it work better with this type of mechanic, this would be really appreciated.
Under the weapon legacy options are fields that say it can move while attacking.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg