Sequel to Empire Builder 2.
Superior to EB1
Found on EU and NA
This map will ALWAYS be free and open to the community.
Hello. im a big fan of your Empire builder 2.
Although i played this game until i broke the map, nowadays, i can solo nightmare in 44-48 minutes. I have a few comments.
1) Oil is simply too powerful early game. Zero oil, and your first striker AH will come at 25:00
One oil, it will come at 21:00. Two oils, it will come at 19:00. Three oils, and it will come at 17:00. The player with most oil will win, and the game becomes a frantic oil grab! >_<
2) Air units is simply too powerful! in both PVP and and PVProtoss. There is no other way to effectively take down all the stargates in nightmare, without having air units (because lastturrets do so little against armored protoss buildings)
3) Some starting positions are too good! (specifically the three starting positions near the starting point). they have big space to build, and one entrance.
4) The ability of Command centre to "block" enemies by spamming 200$ houses in the way can be annoying! I think buildings built by command centre should start with 1 hp, and fill in hp until full.
and lastly 5) I really really really really hope you can release this in my home server that is Asia server. Empire builder 1 v6.4 is extremely popular strategic game here (only second to civilisation saphire). But not everyone likes EB1 as it takes eons to develop a good city.
i dont earn much here as i deliver kimchi and ramen in my place, but i dont mind donating some money if you can help launch it in the asia server >_<
Sorry if my english is horrible, thanks again for a great map.
no, i mean an option to turn it OFF at the start... that would be a good thing to add, if u want to play a 3 hour match with ur buddies, and dont want the colonies to send in the bomber squad at 1hr in... that THAT is what i want....
Crossover, a vote option? That seems silly, you'd be able to win every game if people voted for colony support. However, I agree that colonies should support more often than they do now. I've seen the game scripts, and there's nothing to determine if the player needs help, all events have an equal chance of happening good or bad. Meaning you can get 10 bad events in a row, even early game catastrophically game ending events.
its annoying to play against the ai, and be waiting for your friends to be ready to take on the protoss boss then (at 1 hr gametime) out comes the bombers and blow away the protoss base unleashing the guy and annihilating the progress that u've made... please have the "colonies support" as a vote option at the beginning!
I believe that I am entirely done now. I'm tired of losing ever since the addition of air units. I finally managed to get good anti air up, and suddenly an immortal necro spawns. So. Fuck it. I'm done, absolutely, entirely, 100% done. Necro is severely over powered in my opinion and works with the enemy, not against. He does not attack enemy structures even if he spawns closer to them than he does to you. The necro could probably single handedly take out the entire Protoss armada.
I'll attack my final replay here. It is the furthest I've ever gotten and then the fucking necro spawned right after another bad event and then another bad event after that when I had already lost so FUCK THIS. Seriously. I'm really pissed off. I did much better that time, and one bad event triggers, then a game ending super unbalanced event triggers, and even though I had already lost, a game ending impossible to defeat event appears (the emitter) after I had already lost all my population so restarting in a new area wouldn't have worked. Fucking god damn.
I've noticed at least 10 locations you forgot to add water cells at. :P
Also, to everyone who may be curious what the new map layout is, here it is!
Yellow circles are spawn pads for random events.
Yellow/gold base with red ramps is hostile area.
Dark grey is 2nd level cliff, with darker ramps.
Light grey is first level cliffs with light ramps.
White is ground level.
Blue is rivers or, where a river should be.
Light blue is where you can walk through the water.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30270697/images/EmpireBuilder2.png 345KB, 4096x4096
Hi guys! Just wanted to tell you that there is group for people who like Empire Builder maps.
Wanted to ask if you can add it to loading screen or into description...
First your map is awsome!
Because there are several versions of the game i am not sure if this bug is still there.
1. You can build a large army that makes you have -30.000 income and attack other players. I think as soon as your income goes into minus your units should desert. Maybe you can give a warning and then 33% of your army desert and fight against you. If your income is still in minus another 33% of them should desert.
-> If peoples economy cant support a big army they should not be able to have it.
2. If two players play together one can focus on techpoints and have high negative income then he sends the techpoints to his friend. Solution: If your income is negative you should not get techpoints at all.
-> If people cant afford science, they should not get the techpoints.
Lastly, I'd like to present an image for you in suggestions towards the UI. I wish I knew how to edit the UI and such as you have, adding elements and new resources and such so I could do it myself but I couldn't figure it out. :P
I think it would be nice, if the game did certain things per second or half second, such as food income. While certain things remain on the upkeep timer, food upkeep. Of course, even if you end up not doing this, you can still move things around so that it matches the normal game look. Would be nice after all and that little red number at the side would be the countdown for refreshing upkeep and balances. I'd like the area that holds all this to still be refreshed every second or half second, due to the fact that I don't want to wait 10 seconds to know if I have enough oil income to keep my newly built aircraft army up or when I sell/buy stuff, I don't want it to remain invisible until it refreshes.
Also, hovering on that red countdown thing, would display "Upkeep/Balance timer" or some such like that.
The Archive UI bit you added could be made a whole line smaller, it doesn't need to be that large after all.
You can also see I shrank the market window too. Holding a modifier key could change it from sell to buy. Just like those quick buttons I added below the resources.
Ideas for additional things or changes to existing:
Decrease walk/move speed on farms by 30%, remove this debuff on underground hydroponics mentioned below. Maybe even add a 15% speed boost or more.
Level 5 Farm upgrades into Underground Hydroponics
Underground Hydroponics upgrade button says "Add new level", allowing for 10 levels.
Underground Hydroponics I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X
Each new level doesn't double, it adds to the growth rate. Say you get 100 food per tick on level 1, upgrade gives you 200 and last level gives 1000. It's a compact structure that uses z levels rather than your base area to grow food. Each level should consume 25 electricity, upkeep should be logarithmic.
25, +25, +25, +24, +24, +23, +22, +21, +21, +20 (230)
The reason for this upkeep change, is because it is easier to control the environment underground.
So assuming you have no modifiers from government, a level 10 would have these stats;
1100 HP base (+50 per level) > 1550 HP
25 power usage per level > 250 Electricity
Logarithmic upkeep > 230 Upkeep
100 food per level > 1000 food
1x1 Turbine, 1/5th everything of the 2x2 sized wind turbine.
You should allow passage through the turbines, all of them. Make their ground post smaller, thinner that is. Don't allow new constructions on their space, just allow walk through as if a burrowed structure.
Add "Bunker Housing". This housing will be able to hold 25 people, and will have a 75% resistance to starvation and a 50% resistance to emitters. Will cost 25 electricity always, and 1 per person inside. This will have high HP compared to normal housing, and be above ground still. 2x2 in size.
Add "Underground Housing Complex". This will be able to support 100 population, and will be underground like the underground hydroponics, giving same speed boost as it for walking over it, if you should add this to the hydros. It will have a normal starvation rate, but a 10% resistance to emitters. It will cost 100 electricity constantly +1 per person living there.
Make the Capital act as bunker housing with a 90% resistance to starvation and an 85% resistance to emitters while being able to house 100 population.
Cap some research types. Also, make their upgrades exponential, not just double it each time. Their upgrades should be logarithmic while the cost should be exponential.
E.G. If you upgrade food, it gives you 100% boost the first time, costing 100 science. The second time it costs 230 science, but only gives you an additional 90%. I leave it to you to play with these numbers, unless you want me to try and come up with some stuff.
I'd say cap food research at 20 levels, or whenever your logarithmic calculation yields useless results. Same for the others, I suppose.
I discovered that it is possible to beat this map on easy, only if you share a base with someone and one person focuses on military and the other defense and one of you sends the other all research points to get anti air up before air waves start.
I've also discovered two things that need fixing:
Enemies should not be able to attack through cliffs.
Enemies should not be able to attack things on top of cliffs.
Funny enough, these two things never happened to me when I played solo.
I must say. I like that the map changed, but I hate the map. There is only one base with only one door on it and that's the same base as before and I liked the previous doorway better because it had two high cliffs over looking the entrance making a ground entry impossible if well defended.
Also, you still haven't added nobuilding terrain blockers in the water areas. So the enemy can still spawn bases in the water now. I've come across an area where the protoss buildings were under water in that previous screenshot I linked where you forgot a water tile, I could see the buildings there under the water.
I'm going to go ahead and try this again, solo since I have no other choice really. I wish you to join me at some point, however, I would like to see if I can come up with a better map layout at some point too, if I can ever update the damn map editor.
Ok, I just can't do it anymore. If people are bitching about how this map is too easy, demand they share their replay files with you so you can verify they aren't cheating. This is ridiculously impossible now after all your recent updates. I just can't play anymore, I give up, I'm done, I'm finished possibly forever. I may just go back to Kenji's version. Air units before I can even get Anti-air, anti air defenses totally useless by the time I unlock them with the range of a peanut thrower, emitters or necromancers spawning early game making it impossible. Fuck it. And I play solo on Easy.
Fucking lost this last time because early game emitter half way across the god damn map and bankruptcy. Yea, as if my military's gonna stand there and let themselves be murdered to death all over the place bits and pieces of them splattered everywhere, because I don't pay them anything. Total logic. Lets stick you out in a life or death situation, and tell you either shoot the hostiles or die and see if you demand a paycheck!
Add me on steam, Anteep, if you wish to talk. I'm rather frustrated at the difficulty of the game.
Anyone who claims they can solo it on easy on the hardest difficulty, share your replay file. Replay files are not valid forms of proof if they were made prior to December 2015.
Also, as a side note Anteep, your support AI (The colonies) are bugged a bit, they always go after the middle base first it seems and that's the main protoss fortress, therefor they are no help whatsoever anymore because they don't kill any of the weak spawned areas and instead just go suicide up against the main batteries.
You should add a green tooltip thing to anything that attacks to signify what it can attack "Air" "Ground" "Air & Ground", I lost to air units early game because I couldn't get fortifications researched and the first turret you have access to is still useless by all standards. :P
You forgot a block of water. :P
I will edit this as I keep retrying. :P
I like some of the things said below, I haven't played since you updated in November though. I do have some quick thoughts as I sit here in the lobby though.
Add new game modes that alter the game prior to you getting in.
Mode: Cooperative | Players all start out allied with each other and on one team.
Mode: Competitive | Players all start out neutral with each other, and a scoreboard is set up to reflect the amount of kills total that player has or rather score. Each thing gives a certain score when killed so killing a probe gets you 1 score while killing a gateway gets you 30 score, such and such.
Mode: PVP | All players start out neutral, no score board is present
Mode: Team Game | All players start out allied with their team members but neutral with the other teams. This allows you to select more than 4 teams, setting the AI on their own 3 teams while you split up the 10 player game into either 2 teams of 5, 5 teams of 2, (3 teams of 3 if 9 players present or 10th becomes observer).
You can also add a difficulty setting prior to the game start, in the menu for each player. So each player can vote on a difficulty before the game starts. If left "Unchosen" the player votes in game, but if chosen, the game auto votes for you once the menu comes up. If all players choose, then it can skip this task.
You might even give the player the ability to choose a government, religion, and military style right here in the menu so they can just build their capital right off the bat rather than the chooser buildings.
Have you ever played StarParty? You notice their UI and such? I love how smooth it transitions and such. Amazing stuff. You could use a UI much like theirs for government choosing and such prior to a game starting up, have everything chosen before everyone spawns and give some time frame there where people can click "vote for more time" in case someone is still choosing. Then, once everyone has chosen and the screen exits, then you execute the game timers for the protoss to start doing their thing on timer schedules. You can also place a "game time" UI element to show the time since the players spawned since the game time counter at the bottom, would be inaccurate for timed events. :P Just some other thoughts. I don't know how the dev of StarParty made it so epicly awesome though, I love his UI. :P
This is my favorite map in the entire arcade, hands down. I know the same is true for other "regulars" who I play with frequently. Thank you for this phenomenal contribution to the SC2 community.
I'm including below a couple suggestions. Am happy to discuss, if helpful - please let me know.
The following "measurements" were taken in a game with no AI and with the Oligarchy (i.e., no buffs or debuffs) and the first Econ choice (i.e., (5%) upkeep on military but no other economic buffs or debuffs):
1. Quantifying impact of Clinic as well as the Genetic Screening and Cloning research options in the University
It would be helpful if possible to quantify the increase in energy regeneration rate (which is what I assume is impacted by this research.)
2. Showing level of upgrades on Protoss units
At the moment, Protoss units will always show 0/0/0 in their shield/armor/attack upgrade stats. It would be helpful if possible to have these stats correspond to the number of archives that were not destroyed before the timer expired. For example, if 1/1/1 (i.e., one archive not destroyed on time) were to correspond to a certain shield armor / armor / weapon value, it would help players quickly determine what upgrades to get on army units / defensive structures.
3. Giving option to disband/demolish or relinquish Mines/Boreholes and Oil Wells
The idea here is that if we are stuck in a negative tax balance or negative power (due to Boreholes) situation, it makes sense that relinquishing control of a Mine/Borehole or Oil Well as one option to instantly ease the situation.
4. Having the benefit of the Tech Income Upgrade (at university) scale exponentially (rather than linearly), to match the fact that upgrade costs scale exponentially
So for example, let's say that we have a University (+5 Tech Income), a School (+5 TI) and three Laboratory Vs (+75 TI), for a total of +85 TI. In the current version of the map, the first time we research the tech income +25% upgrade would result in our tech income increasing to 106 TI (i.e., 85 + 85 * 0.25). The second time we research the tech income upgrade would result in tech income jumping to 128 TI (i.e., 85 + 85 * 0.25 * 2).
My proposal is to structure the mechanic such that the second tech income research upgrade would have a cumulative impact on tech income. In other words, the second time we research the upgrade (in the example above) would result in a tech income of 133 (i.e., 85 * 1.25 ^ 2).
Although the difference between the two approaches is minimal after two rounds of upgrades, the cumulative approach results in meaningfully higher tech income after 10 or so upgrades. Using the above example: after 10 tech income upgrades, the current version of the mechanic would result in tech income of 298 whereas the proposed cumulative mechanic would result in tech income of 792.
It remains to be seen whether this approach would maintain balance but I thought I'd offer a suggestion as to how it might be possible to fix the fundamental issue: upgrade costs scale exponentially but upgrade benefits scale linearly.
5. Clarifying that each unit of population yields 3 credits per tick
I deduced this using some quick calculations but it would be helpful for players to understand this right away for purposes of managing economy.
6. Quantifying the impact of economic depressions and booms
I'm not sure how this is implemented in the game. I suspect that a depression (or boom) is simulated by reducing (or increasing) the credit per population multiplier (i.e., which is at a default of 3 during non-depression/non-boom periods). I do think it's important that the quantification of the depression/boom is communicated to the players.
7. Impacting the per-tick income of export-based empires during economic depressions and booms
Conceptually, it does not make sense that export-based empires are relatively immune to economic depressions/booms as compared to their tax-based counterparts.
One fix would be to change food/metal/oil prices: an increase in price during booms and a decrease in price during depressions (e.g., food drops to 0.85 in depression and increases to 1.15 in boom; similar changes for metal and oil). Though I imagine that this would depend on the game engine's ability to handle decimal values and round them as appropriate.
1. Building upgrades and current selection
Proposed change: It would simplify management of building upgrades - namely for farms, houses and tech labs - if upgraded buildings remain in the current selection. For example, let's say I have four Farm Is currently selected. If I upgrade one of them to a Farm II, then that farm is removed from the current selection, which now includes three Farm Is. The change I'm proposing is that upgrading one of the farms to a Farm II should result in the current selection containing all four farms (with the "Tab" key allowing us to shift focus between the Farm Is and the Farm II).
Why this would be helpful?: The reason this would be beneficial is that it allows control-group based management of building upgrades. In other words, as long as I'm diligent about adding newly constructed farms to my control group dedicated for Farms, then I can manage upgrades without looking back at my base.
2. Keyboard shortcuts for building construction
Proposed change: At the moment, there are a few overlaps in the keyboard shortcuts for ordering the construction of buildings, both via the Capital and Worker Bot:
Construction via Capital:
Construction via Worker Bot:
3. Unit priority when using mouse for boxing
Proposed change: At the moment, Mines take precedence over all units (including worker bots). For example, let's say I have 3 worker bots next to a Silver Mine. In the current version, if a draw a box over these three worker bots which contains a part of the Silver Mine, I will end up with the Silver Mine selected instead of the workers.
Why this would be helpful?: It would greatly simplify the management of Worker Bots when securing ownership of resources or controlling Army units. It would also align with the boxing priority of traditional, melee SC2.
Interesting feedback, I've read everything you put.
Solar powered vehicles are an interesting idea. I was planning to add some other electric vehicles that operate in different ways too. Bots do need a disband option yes.
"Evil" isn't allied to the Protoss, at least all the times I've played, and plenty of times I have seen the Necro die to the Protoss. I will double check this, but I've seen them attack eachother many times.
As for difficulty, your feedback is at odds with many other peoples' opinions. Many people seem to find the game quite easy at the moment with recent patches, even on hard and similar difficulties. I'm not sure how easier I could make easy without it being dull to be honest. The difficulty settings seem to work fine so far with most players and err on the side of an easier game. I never intended this game to be incredibly easy, perhaps try different strategy and tactics in the game, quite a few players have solo'd Nightmare let alone easy mode. A learner difficulty could be done, and that's great for a learner, but I'd worry that new players and inexperienced players vote this in a lobby and end up not growing their abilities because they are facing an inept opposition. I do want a level of difficulty to be present. In short: so far the difficulty isn't putting off the majority of players and the game is easier than it has ever been. I know this might not be the response you want, but honestly I must take into account many other people's feedback too - I've had many people message me that the game is too easy for them right now. A learner difficulty that can only be chosen if the game is solo is probably the best solution here. I don't think I added difficulty scaling, although it was in EB1, I'll have to check. I think the best option for you right now is to play more games with others and see how they handle the AI - for example you say armies are not an option, yet for several people armies are the main and sometimes only option and defences are not so viable in the long run.
And also: some empire choices are more soloable than others, some work better in a team.
Emitters: yes, they are lethal, but economies with mixed income sources can survive against this, ideally you must destroy the emitter as soon as possible and it won't respawn. It is weak and does not have good defences, so a group of units can take it out with ease. It might be a surprise to a new player, but if you see it again you'll be sure to eliminate it ASAP. It's possible that I might require it time to activate first before killing populations. At the moment emitters are designed to be immediate threats that must be responded to.
Highways: I've thought about an upgrade to farms that give them a similar buff.
Difficulty bug: yeah I should probably stop people from voting for the last two difficulties again.
Downloading the map: the map is downloadable through the editor
Another idea, is to allow you to donate resources to the Colonies, so that they send you aid sooner. This game appears to be 100% impossible solo, no matter what government I choose. :/ The random events are survivable.
EDIT: Also, make the necro spawn enemy to the protoss. The protoss hate any other race, so why would they and the zerg and zombies be working together? Make them fight each other.
I miss highways from the Kenji version of the map. :P Though, I didn't like that they were all 1x1 only, took a lot to make a 2x2 path. Would like 1x1 and 2x2 versions though.
I've noticed that the emitter is overpowered just like stated. It deleted 100% of my economy and made the game absolutely impossible. Which it pretty much already is. i didn't even know where the emitter was. There was a protoss gateway directly outside our base, spawned like against the wall letting the enemy walk into our base even though we blocked off the only door, the photons had spawned around it too to protect it, some leaned on the wall sideways. I couldn't find the emitter, and once they killed all my troops, the game was lost, it was impossible. Zero population and I wasn't allowed to build anything else, nor was my friend.
Does the emitter have some sort of range? Or is it a total map thing? If it's a total map thing, it's too overpowered, and needs to be set to a range, or turned WAY down. If it's a local area thing only, it needs to have a red blip or something on the map that can be distinguished so we can find the most deadly of the things around us to kill it.
Other than that, the game is too difficult on Easy. Armies were killed in an instant by everything, the only thing that lasted was our door defense which lasted two hours. The defenses could outlast because of the glitch in AI path finding that walls disallow enemies to find a path and so their random pathing causes them to walk past the wall instead of go up to it. That's the only reason we lasted 2 hours, armies aren't possible. I had maximum military focus, that Elite Soldiers government type, and wow. Random spawn of allied AI had 20 research defense and attack while I was still at 7 and couldn't buy anymore because it cost 2k research each.
I think you should add a Learner difficulty in just like Kenji's version of the older one, that disables the random spawned bases and only sets up the main base. The random spawned bases are too often and too powerful for Easy. We did Disabled first just to learn the units and how they work and stuff, but switched to Easy thinking, hey, we might be able to make some decent progress but nope. We were stuck inside our base all game. Not allowed to leave because no oil, no metal, and marines walk out there and die before they can say "ohshi...."
Also, the timer at the top that counts down, is slightly under the income window, and can you add an income timer? I just feel a bit more secure with my income with an income timer.
I'll give this some more tries. I'd really like to fix a few things in Kenji's version still but I do like how this one is executed, I just think it's much too hard.
One question though. Does the AI scale in difficulty with the amount of players in the map? If not, it should. I feel that if I tried to play Solo, I'd die too often.
First suggestion: Make friendly AI events more often on Easy. I'd say 3x more often on Easy, 2x on Normal, 1x on hard, 0.5x on the harder difficulties. Sorry, didn't memorize the exact difficulty names. :P So anything harder than hard, they come 50% less often, while coming 3 times more often on easy.
Solar powered vehicles, a few small solar powered vehicles, or scouts even.
Along with that, electric powered vehicles that use electricity instead of oil. Has an energy bar so that they use that for electricity storage, and they regain energy so long as they are in a power area (substation or something) shutting down like they are out of oil when their energy depletes. Same for solar vehicles, that gain power during the daylight and burn off their energy during the night.
Scout heli, a heli that works like the scout bot, and is only for scouting.
I want to be able to disband my scout bots and bunkers. So I can get rid of the 30 bots I made all over the map, and so I can replace an old bunker with the upgraded bunker. Or at least, add an upgrade bunker feature to it so I can upgrade it without rebuilding it from scratch. Even if you have to empty it first.
Keep up the good work though, I like it. It's just too difficult for us right now.
Before I forget. After the players vote on a difficulty, the last two difficulties are still clickable afterwords. They don't fade out like the rest.
And lastly, I'd like to be able to hover over the homes to see their max storage per level, just like in Kenji's map, it lists all the home upgrade names and each of their storage amounts. Very helpful. All this needs is a tooltip edit so that won't be hard at all. :P I'd help you with some of these things if I could, but you haven't uploaded the map.
huge update released - 4.9
No files uploaded yet.