I wouldn't be surprised if Fenix is added if they do have him have Sentinels too but possibly with some new ability.
I think the units chosen for Karax all make sense. Even giving the Khaydarin Monolith makes sense as there is a comment in the campaign when you first get it about how quickly he adapted it for their use and as you say barring bringing back the dead there's no other Nerazim commanders they can use (kinda sad really that there are so few named Nerazim now...)
The difficulty for Fenix is how to make him different from Artanis? Based on his abilities in the campaign and his personality he seems like he'd be based around barreling into the enemy, a brawler if you will. Though it raises a fun mental image if he were to get the Summon Fenix ability... "I summon... ME!"
An interesting thing I could see revived for a commander is in the Void campaign files there are upgrades that suggest the Immortal at one point would have had a self ressurection ability (like the Sentinel or Thor in WoL)
I do wonder if they might bring back Urun who got sadly forgotten in the campaign as a fleet commander? Selendis might fit for that role too though there are potentially lore issues with her, depending on how much they worry about the rough timeframe Co-op missions have (the Shakuras Temple mission already standing out)
I also think a ranged-focusd Protoss army could be interesting so Adepts but no Zealots (perhaps this faction would have some of the requirements/cost of Adepts reduced to balance) simply to mix things up a bit :)
Sorry about all the problems that happened with making the Sloth... I still feel bad about that even if real life got in the way, with a lot with my custom models beyond minor changes. As can be seen with it taking me a few years to finish up my Adept enough for release. ¬.¬
That said Heart of the Swarm brought actual bulldozer models so who knows? Maybe I could make something. However still not in a position to promise anything I'm afraid.
Well said. I always hated that the game supposedly meant to be the ending for the Tiberian franchise wasn't even originally a C&C game, they just slapped the name on and did some weird campaign. It's the only C&C game I was never able to bring myself to finish... I didn't get past the first mission to be honest.
Hrmm true about Nerazim commanders, given Mohandar is dead lorewise... then again if they brought Zeratul back anything's possible :P
I just wonder if a Leviathan hero would be too OP or need to be nerfed too much though. Then again Co-op doesn't use normal melee balance... so who knows?
What I mean with Zeratul is that Vorazun already has the whole 'stealth' kit. And to be honest Nerazim heavy weapons don't really fit to me with the personality of Zeratul. If they were going to have Zeratul I would think he would have had the kit Vorazun has
As for Izsha yes she could have a Leviathan hero. I was just meaning that you couldn't have a hero unit of her outside of the Leviathan as she seems to be connected to it.
I didn't say they were CANON but it's clear from comments in the Void campaign itself of Amon's forces striking across the sector and from the fact you're fighting exclusively Amon forces in the Co-op campaign that there's some sort of loose story connection going on to give co-op missions a bit of story to them so they're not just randomness. This is further supported by the (current) commanders only being ones who are alive concurrently with the events of the majority of the Void campaign.
As you say Shakuras is the main thing that makes it impossible to be fully canon as well as Artanis and Vorazun being in places other than the Void campaign. Ultimately though I like the effort on Blizz's part to give some loose story to tie the missions together :) This is why I find any of the SC1 characters unlikely, and for Zeratul too to be honest - particularly as how different could you really make Zeratul when Vorazun already has the stealth kit?
Also sorry to be a party pooper but keep in mind that datamined commanders may also be references to commanders previously considered in older iterations but then cut and are no guarantee they WILL be added back.
That said, Abathur seems very likely given we've got Swann and Karax is coming. Stukov too seems like he could lend a lot to the gameplay (possibly even having trained Infested Terrans in some places. Maybe Infested Marines instead of Hydralisks?)
Izsha could also be an interesting choice, (though she couldn't really have a hero unit) if only for possibly trained Leviathans of some form!
Given his popularity Alarak seems a certainty as well.
I could imagine the Overmind perhaps having a special Primary Hive (IE his real body) but maybe have a specialized strain as a hero. Or as SoulFilcher said he could just be like Protoss. That said I still find the idea of Pre SC2 characters surprising/unlikely given how the Co-op missions are loosely based during the war with Amon. Then again as I say it is loose and there's a few things already in it which are not entirely canon to the course of events in the actual campaign so maybe they'll just take that further.
Abathur I imagine they could take inspiration from Heroes of the Storm and have him be a hero not designed to go on the front lines (kinda a super queen) but have a lot of abilities to boost units mapwide or such.
I would also imagine Dehaka might have Swarm Hosts as they were adapted from Primal Essences too.
Horner would clearly be a fleet focused commander.
Either Mengsk could have a lot of techy units/ghosts and tactical.
In regards to the Odin, well when I had a quick look in the Coop Mod file I noticed an Odin MK II unit.
Keep in mind for anything to do with sound file references, I don't know the specifics but they could also tied to the alternate advisor thing they talked about at BlizzCon.
Regarding a Nerazim replacement for Templar Archives, thematically I'd suggest something connected to these guys: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Alyssar They're basically the Nerazim version of Preservers, though it's a more 'oral' kind of thing as when a Nerazim believes they are near the end of their life they put their memories into an Ihan crystal (like what Zeratul used to warn Raynor)
As for name, well maybe something like Shadow Archives perhaps? Or Sanctuary of Wisdom which is actually the name of the library where the Alyssar are based but isn't there something like THE Templar Archive on Aiur too? So using the name could work.
As for the Warden, another possibility would be to use it as the Purifiers' Mothership?
Also in regard to transport ships and Warp Prism functionallity, you could revisit an old idea and give one of the factions the SoA Pylon Warp in ability maybe from the Nexus (but maybe a weaker, smaller radius pylon) and have their transport be the Shuttle (for example)
Also in regards to cloaking, it doesn't HAVE to be tied to Dark Templar/Void related for other factions. Don't forget the Arbiter and Mothership cloak units without any connection to the Void, so it's not exactly difficult lorewise to justify a cloaking Purifier warrior for example. Although on that topic, one idea that kind of appeals to me would be maybe something like the WC3 Blademaster's Mirror Image or Heroes' Nova's Holo Decoy ability. So rather than true stealth some kind of ability (autocast?) that creates one or more Holographic decoys. Though I guess that doesn't fit the stealthy movement idea hrmm.
Sorry I got a bit meandering there. Hopefully something in there could be useful ^_^
Hmm I can see how the Archon stuff would be problematic. It stems from the Nerazim and Tal'darim BOTH using Void energies, and if I'd have to guess it seems like red Void energy is more destructive/chaotic (remember the lore for Dark Archons makes them sound very dangerous and unstable, something that perhaps even something the Nerazim themselves fear.) so Nerazim only use such powers in dire circumstances whereas for the Tal'darim use it all the time.
I have it on good authority (PM me for my source if you want) that had they had the assets at the time the Tal'darim in Wings and Swarm would have used the red and black appearance so I'd be dis-inclined to use the green void energies versions for them myself. That said the Dark Archon being red is iconic. Problematic to be sure...
A crazy thought here: Make the Tal'darim Archon Purple in reference to Terrazine?
Ooh or another thought: Make the Tal'darim Archon a Void Shadow using the Glaze Material. The one problem I could see with that is I'm not sure Team Colour would be visible :-/
Sorry for not being more help, but maybe something in my ramblings will prove useful ^_^'
@SoulFilcher: Go
Hmm you could call the faction Khalai Caste for now, if people do get confused then maybe rethink it?
Regarding the motherships they are actually two things. There's the one that's just called Purifier from the Haven missions in WoL (which also appears in LotV as an NPC Mothership) referred to as a more powerful Mothership but there's also another unit called the Purifier Mothership and it's description to me seems to suggest it was originally a summoned unit (My guess is the Purifier Beam SoA power might have originally summoned a Purifier Mothership) and when placed in a map it actually seems to have a Data driven despawning where it warps away.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Heh, good to know I'm not the only one who thought that'd be quite a Tal'darim thing to do :D. I understand wanting to use the Blizzard intention, good luck with the search. If I come across anything I'll let you know.
I think Phasesmith is a more specific job as it were, (something like the Protoss version of an Engineer) as now I think about it I think the Khalai Caste also includes Protoss civillians. Basically everyone who isn't a Judicator or a Templar (or a Preserver but they're a mini caste as it were).
I'm pretty sure at one point in the campaign Artanis or Karax himself refers to him as being of the Khalai class (possibly when he is first introduced)... confusingly though the term does indeed also seem to be used to refer to Aiur Protoss... hrmm.
Of course in universe the term to refer to Aiur Protoss is probably fairly recent as before the reunification with the Nerazim most Aiur Protoss viewed themselves as just Protoss and had no need to distinguish themselves.
Something I've just been reminded of while reading on StarCraft wiki in regard to Khalai Caste is they also include Protoss scientists there is a broad spectrum for them to have experimental units and such too.
Hi, in regard to an ability for the Skylord, I've been thinking about that recently and this might be too OP for multiplayer (I've just been thinking in campaign context) but my idea would be one which lets you order the Skylord's Interceptors to make a kamikaze run at a target unit/structure. So you can do a burst of damage but of course you have to rebuild the Interceptors.
I also like the idea of using the Furinax tribe as the fifth, the builders, the Khalai Caste. (I think, if I'm remembering right)
Have you tried using the smooth tool under Raise/Lower textures? I seem to recall sometimes that can smooth out oddness at connecting points between cliffs and slopes.
0
I wouldn't be surprised if Fenix is added if they do have him have Sentinels too but possibly with some new ability.
I think the units chosen for Karax all make sense. Even giving the Khaydarin Monolith makes sense as there is a comment in the campaign when you first get it about how quickly he adapted it for their use and as you say barring bringing back the dead there's no other Nerazim commanders they can use (kinda sad really that there are so few named Nerazim now...)
The difficulty for Fenix is how to make him different from Artanis? Based on his abilities in the campaign and his personality he seems like he'd be based around barreling into the enemy, a brawler if you will. Though it raises a fun mental image if he were to get the Summon Fenix ability... "I summon... ME!"
An interesting thing I could see revived for a commander is in the Void campaign files there are upgrades that suggest the Immortal at one point would have had a self ressurection ability (like the Sentinel or Thor in WoL)
I do wonder if they might bring back Urun who got sadly forgotten in the campaign as a fleet commander? Selendis might fit for that role too though there are potentially lore issues with her, depending on how much they worry about the rough timeframe Co-op missions have (the Shakuras Temple mission already standing out)
I also think a ranged-focusd Protoss army could be interesting so Adepts but no Zealots (perhaps this faction would have some of the requirements/cost of Adepts reduced to balance) simply to mix things up a bit :)
0
@SheogorathSC: Go
Very nice! I particularly like the structure built on the edge of the crater.
0
@SoulFilcher: Go
Sorry about all the problems that happened with making the Sloth... I still feel bad about that even if real life got in the way, with a lot with my custom models beyond minor changes. As can be seen with it taking me a few years to finish up my Adept enough for release. ¬.¬
That said Heart of the Swarm brought actual bulldozer models so who knows? Maybe I could make something. However still not in a position to promise anything I'm afraid.
0
@DeltaCadimus: Go
Well said. I always hated that the game supposedly meant to be the ending for the Tiberian franchise wasn't even originally a C&C game, they just slapped the name on and did some weird campaign. It's the only C&C game I was never able to bring myself to finish... I didn't get past the first mission to be honest.
0
@Zarxiel93: Go
Hrmm true about Nerazim commanders, given Mohandar is dead lorewise... then again if they brought Zeratul back anything's possible :P
I just wonder if a Leviathan hero would be too OP or need to be nerfed too much though. Then again Co-op doesn't use normal melee balance... so who knows?
0
@Zarxiel93: Go
What I mean with Zeratul is that Vorazun already has the whole 'stealth' kit. And to be honest Nerazim heavy weapons don't really fit to me with the personality of Zeratul. If they were going to have Zeratul I would think he would have had the kit Vorazun has
As for Izsha yes she could have a Leviathan hero. I was just meaning that you couldn't have a hero unit of her outside of the Leviathan as she seems to be connected to it.
0
@Zarxiel93: Go
I didn't say they were CANON but it's clear from comments in the Void campaign itself of Amon's forces striking across the sector and from the fact you're fighting exclusively Amon forces in the Co-op campaign that there's some sort of loose story connection going on to give co-op missions a bit of story to them so they're not just randomness. This is further supported by the (current) commanders only being ones who are alive concurrently with the events of the majority of the Void campaign.
As you say Shakuras is the main thing that makes it impossible to be fully canon as well as Artanis and Vorazun being in places other than the Void campaign. Ultimately though I like the effort on Blizz's part to give some loose story to tie the missions together :) This is why I find any of the SC1 characters unlikely, and for Zeratul too to be honest - particularly as how different could you really make Zeratul when Vorazun already has the stealth kit?
Also sorry to be a party pooper but keep in mind that datamined commanders may also be references to commanders previously considered in older iterations but then cut and are no guarantee they WILL be added back.
That said, Abathur seems very likely given we've got Swann and Karax is coming. Stukov too seems like he could lend a lot to the gameplay (possibly even having trained Infested Terrans in some places. Maybe Infested Marines instead of Hydralisks?)
Izsha could also be an interesting choice, (though she couldn't really have a hero unit) if only for possibly trained Leviathans of some form!
Given his popularity Alarak seems a certainty as well.
0
I could imagine the Overmind perhaps having a special Primary Hive (IE his real body) but maybe have a specialized strain as a hero. Or as SoulFilcher said he could just be like Protoss. That said I still find the idea of Pre SC2 characters surprising/unlikely given how the Co-op missions are loosely based during the war with Amon. Then again as I say it is loose and there's a few things already in it which are not entirely canon to the course of events in the actual campaign so maybe they'll just take that further.
Abathur I imagine they could take inspiration from Heroes of the Storm and have him be a hero not designed to go on the front lines (kinda a super queen) but have a lot of abilities to boost units mapwide or such.
I would also imagine Dehaka might have Swarm Hosts as they were adapted from Primal Essences too.
Horner would clearly be a fleet focused commander.
Either Mengsk could have a lot of techy units/ghosts and tactical.
In regards to the Odin, well when I had a quick look in the Coop Mod file I noticed an Odin MK II unit.
Keep in mind for anything to do with sound file references, I don't know the specifics but they could also tied to the alternate advisor thing they talked about at BlizzCon.
0
Regarding a Nerazim replacement for Templar Archives, thematically I'd suggest something connected to these guys: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Alyssar They're basically the Nerazim version of Preservers, though it's a more 'oral' kind of thing as when a Nerazim believes they are near the end of their life they put their memories into an Ihan crystal (like what Zeratul used to warn Raynor)
As for name, well maybe something like Shadow Archives perhaps? Or Sanctuary of Wisdom which is actually the name of the library where the Alyssar are based but isn't there something like THE Templar Archive on Aiur too? So using the name could work.
As for the Warden, another possibility would be to use it as the Purifiers' Mothership?
Also in regard to transport ships and Warp Prism functionallity, you could revisit an old idea and give one of the factions the SoA Pylon Warp in ability maybe from the Nexus (but maybe a weaker, smaller radius pylon) and have their transport be the Shuttle (for example)
Also in regards to cloaking, it doesn't HAVE to be tied to Dark Templar/Void related for other factions. Don't forget the Arbiter and Mothership cloak units without any connection to the Void, so it's not exactly difficult lorewise to justify a cloaking Purifier warrior for example. Although on that topic, one idea that kind of appeals to me would be maybe something like the WC3 Blademaster's Mirror Image or Heroes' Nova's Holo Decoy ability. So rather than true stealth some kind of ability (autocast?) that creates one or more Holographic decoys. Though I guess that doesn't fit the stealthy movement idea hrmm.
Sorry I got a bit meandering there. Hopefully something in there could be useful ^_^
0
@SoulFilcher: Go
Hmm I can see how the Archon stuff would be problematic. It stems from the Nerazim and Tal'darim BOTH using Void energies, and if I'd have to guess it seems like red Void energy is more destructive/chaotic (remember the lore for Dark Archons makes them sound very dangerous and unstable, something that perhaps even something the Nerazim themselves fear.) so Nerazim only use such powers in dire circumstances whereas for the Tal'darim use it all the time.
I have it on good authority (PM me for my source if you want) that had they had the assets at the time the Tal'darim in Wings and Swarm would have used the red and black appearance so I'd be dis-inclined to use the green void energies versions for them myself. That said the Dark Archon being red is iconic. Problematic to be sure...
A crazy thought here: Make the Tal'darim Archon Purple in reference to Terrazine?
Ooh or another thought: Make the Tal'darim Archon a Void Shadow using the Glaze Material. The one problem I could see with that is I'm not sure Team Colour would be visible :-/
Sorry for not being more help, but maybe something in my ramblings will prove useful ^_^'
0
@SoulFilcher: Go Hmm you could call the faction Khalai Caste for now, if people do get confused then maybe rethink it?
Regarding the motherships they are actually two things. There's the one that's just called Purifier from the Haven missions in WoL (which also appears in LotV as an NPC Mothership) referred to as a more powerful Mothership but there's also another unit called the Purifier Mothership and it's description to me seems to suggest it was originally a summoned unit (My guess is the Purifier Beam SoA power might have originally summoned a Purifier Mothership) and when placed in a map it actually seems to have a Data driven despawning where it warps away.
0
@SoulFilcher: Go Heh, good to know I'm not the only one who thought that'd be quite a Tal'darim thing to do :D. I understand wanting to use the Blizzard intention, good luck with the search. If I come across anything I'll let you know.
I think Phasesmith is a more specific job as it were, (something like the Protoss version of an Engineer) as now I think about it I think the Khalai Caste also includes Protoss civillians. Basically everyone who isn't a Judicator or a Templar (or a Preserver but they're a mini caste as it were).
I'm pretty sure at one point in the campaign Artanis or Karax himself refers to him as being of the Khalai class (possibly when he is first introduced)... confusingly though the term does indeed also seem to be used to refer to Aiur Protoss... hrmm.
Of course in universe the term to refer to Aiur Protoss is probably fairly recent as before the reunification with the Nerazim most Aiur Protoss viewed themselves as just Protoss and had no need to distinguish themselves.
Something I've just been reminded of while reading on StarCraft wiki in regard to Khalai Caste is they also include Protoss scientists there is a broad spectrum for them to have experimental units and such too.
0
Hi, in regard to an ability for the Skylord, I've been thinking about that recently and this might be too OP for multiplayer (I've just been thinking in campaign context) but my idea would be one which lets you order the Skylord's Interceptors to make a kamikaze run at a target unit/structure. So you can do a burst of damage but of course you have to rebuild the Interceptors.
I also like the idea of using the Furinax tribe as the fifth, the builders, the Khalai Caste. (I think, if I'm remembering right)
0
Have you tried using the smooth tool under Raise/Lower textures? I seem to recall sometimes that can smooth out oddness at connecting points between cliffs and slopes.
0
Some very nice stuff there Ghost! I especially like the Hover Platform concept guy :)