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    posted a message on Alternate perspectives on Starcraft lore?

    I opened a discord specifically for discussing alternate universes: https://discord.gg/qbt2bH4

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Defiler mound?

    Hello. I saw the defiler mound in Mass Recall and had an idea. It looked too similar to the evolution chamber for my taste (I think it recycled parts?) and I got to thinking about what a SC2 reimagining of the defiler mound might look like.

     

    So there are some campaign zerg buildings, the infestation pustule and constriction, that look like good candidates for the fleshy part of the mound. Are there are crystal models that could be integrated with that? The overall idea is that the mound is a mass of drooling cancers that have coiled around a formation of pylon crystals.

     

    Could those structures be combined in the editor or would it require modeling software?

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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    posted a message on Alternate perspectives on Starcraft lore?

    Is anybody interested in brainstorming ideas for a demo mission? Gameplay, story, whatever.

     

    I reached the point where just writing about a sandbox setting is not satisfying me anymore. I want to make a mission map that puts my ideas into practice. The Galaxy editor content is now so diverse that I probably don't even need custom content to represent most of the factions that I can imagine.

     

    Long story short, the setting I brainstormed lets you take factions that existed at any point in the starcraft lore (or wholly original factions) and pit them against each other within a generic first contact war setting that mashes the various canon wars together. Overmind's swarm versus Cerberus' enslaved zerg, Protoss Empire versus Ihan-rii, Protoss Empire versus Tau Ceti terrans who want vengeance for genocide, Confederacy versus Dominion, Confederacy versus UED, etc. I suppose it is like Heroes of the Storm in that respect.

     

    There are so many possibilities that I am not sure what anyone would be interested in. And on top of the story I have to devise fun gameplay gimmicks to keep things fresh. Zerg evolution, terran or protoss technology development, multiple choice upgrades/unit variation/etc, multi-outcome objectives, map geography (e.g. cliffs, hazards, etc), etc.

     

    The most detailed idea I have so far is a single mission where you play as Overmind's zerg fighting to recover some of Cerberus' enslaved zerg. I haven't sketched out much beyond the basic objectives and outcome: you need to attack some hive mind emulators controlling enslaved zerg bases while fending off attacks from terrans and cerberus zerg, each liberated base becomes neutral and so you need to bring swarm queens to spray their hives with medic spray to take control of them, and you win when you reclaim all of the enslaved hives and don't need to destroy any enemy bases. Also, a secondary objective I imagined is that you could target some infested buildings the terrans were experimenting on, which gives you access to some aberrations they created. That's it so far. I have no idea what the story would be, since the Overmind's swarm are unknowns as far as canon characterization goes.

     

    Advice? Suggestions? Critique? Any help would be appreciated.

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Starcraft 2: Redux

    Sure, great. You do that.

     

    I always felt that the obsession with Kerry and Raynor has hamstrung the IP's creative potential for the last twenty years. After Heart of the Swarm came out to immense disappointment, the fanfiction and custom campaign scenes seemingly collapsed.

     

    That's what inspired me to write an AU for the story. Long story short, I decided to simply ignore Raynor, Kerry, etc and just go from there. There are tons of really interesting things in the lore that could serve as plot hooks. My published doc on google has barely scratched the surface.

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Starcraft 2: Redux

    Sorry for the necro, if this counts as necro.

     

    I don't have any comment for this idea, sorry. I think the story problems go back all the way to SC1 and that it makes more sense to reboot the lore with the benefit of hindsight.

     

    I have plenty of ideas I'd be happy to discuss but this forum seems to be pretty anemic.

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Alternate perspectives on Starcraft lore?

    I have started working on a google doc exploring an alternate universe that aims to be less silly than canon and serve as something of a “greatest hits” of lore bits.

     

    Feel free to critique or suggest: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BPucJLVfcCcuqwfn9G5HavaUBCShkMhkpT3TJW2ehYo/pub

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Brand new, unseen Xel'Naga and Hybrid Concept Art from "The Cinematic Art of StarCraft"

    Blizzard has never been good at writing. With the benefit of hindsight, it is clear that they were making up the plot of SC on the fly. Notice how every campaign systematically destroys all the world building painstakingly setup by the previous installment?

     

    SC2 had nowhere to go but down because SC1 had an unstable plot to begin with due to a tumultuous development history. Making Mengsk, Raynor and Kerry the main characters to the exclusion of other more interesting plot threads (or the logistics of the setting itself) proved to be detrimental to the story. Systematically destroying and retconning the cultures of all three sides proved detrimental to the story.

     

    Because the constant setting turnover and absurd retcons, it is impossible to continue the story of Koprulu in a way that does not feel artificial, forced and ham-fisted. The three sides having their motivations for fighting was sufficient for the manual, they didn’t need xel’naga interference or queen of blades demigods.

     

    That is why is think the story should be rebooted and re-focus on the first contact war as a morally ambiguous anthology sandbox setting. The fanfic bible “Starcraft: Enumerate” provides many helpful suggestions in that regard, even if I personally disagree with parts. https://www.sc2mapster.com/projects/enumerate-continuation

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Commander Concept: Zasz and Daggoth

    In reply to DrSuperEvil:

     
    Quote from DrSuperEvil >>

    Small problem is that the experience gains from custom maps could be biased.

     
     Blizzard probably does quality assurance for any community-submitted mods before giving them an official seal of quality. At least, that is common sense.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Commander Concept: Zasz and Daggoth

     

    Quote from bummknallpeng >>

    You're right. This actually gives me an idea...

    What if Blizzard introduced the option of community made coop maps? Like, custom maps you can play and still level up your character? I think that would open the door for a lot of interesting concepts to be explored (alternate timelines, etc.) while actually rewarding you for playing.

     I only liked Starcraft for the story. More accurately, the story I imagine it could have been. Now it is full of so many rewrites and inconsistencies that I cannot muster the effort to do much more than complain.
     
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Commander Concept: Zasz and Daggoth
    Quote from bummknallpeng >>

    That would be pretty cool. I'd love it if Blizzard made an actual official coop campaign. Like, a DLC that is specifically designed to be played with multiple people. Another idea would be a last stand mode (like in Dawn of War II) that allows players to hold out against neverending waves, kinda like In Utter Darkness.

    Zeratul is still canonically dead though. :P

    Canon is overrated anyway. Blizzard has never stuck to a consistent canon, as shown by the countless retcons in all their stories. Officially acknowledging that alternate timelines exist is simple honesty. 
    I never liked the canon anyhow. I know Starcraft was always mediocre and cliche, but the games did a terrible execution of the premise they were given. The manual introduces us to the Confederacy, Conclave, Overmind and an open-ended sector-wide war, then the game just bulldozes through all those plot points as fast as possible and sabotages the sequels. BW introduces the UED out of left field, trivially dispenses with them, arbitrarily makes Kerry ruler of the zerg, and retcons the xel'naga into the real villains. Then SC2 introduces a generic apocalypse villain, turns Kerry human then zerg again, and generally it's all just a huge mess.
    In the end, the lore is really just filler and the game mechanics and art are the real meat of the IP. But that doesn't mean we should settle for shlocky story. Again, the original premise is mediocre... but it does have the seeds for interesting ideas like the Confederacy in space and the zerg have this family dynamic. A competent writer could spin lots of interesting stories out of that. We see this in the licensed fiction, so why not in the games?
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Commander Concept: Zasz and Daggoth

    Zeratul was recently revealed as another co-op commander, supposedly surviving because of an alternate timeline or something.

     

    This gives me hope that Blizzard will probably pilfer the lore for other dead and obscure characters to fight in the end war. Tassadar, Overmind, Mengsk, Duke, etc. The justifications will probably be very flimsy, just like how Stukov and Fenix were resurrected with convenient plot devices.

     

    I would like it if Blizzard could offer other historical wars to fight in as well. Maybe they could have co-op campaigns and maps for the guild wars, great war, brood war, second great war, etc? This would allow them to introduce co-op commanders who would not make much sense to fight in the end war.

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Commander Concept: Zasz and Daggoth

     

    Quote from bummknallpeng >>

    Yes! The story turned from an epic that described the downfall and rise of empires to a much more character-focused "hero's journey"-type story, which works if the characters are well written, but sadly a lot of them are not. It especially shows in heart of the swarm where the only interesting characters show up towards the end of the campaign (Abathur does not count because he has literally 0% impact on the story).

    What I liked about the way that SCI put a spin on the classic epic was the atmosphere. I LOOOOOOVE how the game gives you so much power (as in you fight and win every battle), but still manages to make you feel powerless. You are in the middle of what's happening, but you are still unable to influence it.

     
     To be honest, SC1 did some of this too. The campaign stories were really disjointed and had no sense of scale. There were also a fair number of contradictions and plot holes. Compare the original manual to the games: it included loads of political plot hooks that could have fueled years of in-universe conflict, but the game just dismantles that (and the sequels scramble to assemble a conflict).
    The licensed expansion Insurrection, at least after the bugfixing it got recently, does a much better job of taking advantage of the plot hooks given by the manual. It's not a perfect story and the voice acting is hilarious, but it certainly tries and I would argue the script is for the most part better constructed than Starcraft 1's campaigns.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Commander Concept: Zasz and Daggoth

     

    Quote from bummknallpeng >>

    In reply to mithras_gnosis:

     Yep. Not a fan of the "they all died" thing either. I like the idea of SCII queens and broodmothers but they resulted in the Zerg loosing a lot of their personality.
     
    I generally disliked the direction that the games took in general. I mean, back in 1998 the official website (an earlier iteration) and the manual suggested that the three-way conflict would last indefinitely in Koprulu (and the zerg's invasion of the protoss empire would be a galactic apocalypse, since back then the Protoss were a galactic power and the Overmind was the ultimate villain). The game just bulldozed through all those interesting plot hooks and ended up really shooting itself in the foot by killing all the governments. The Confederacy, Conclave and Overmind could have kept the franchise running indefinitely without ever leaving Koprulu, but now the setting is much smaller, bland and boring.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Commander Concept: Zasz and Daggoth

     

    Quote from bummknallpeng >>

    In reply to mithras_gnosis:

     You're right! Their broods all have specific traits that would make them unique when implemented in coop but I choose Z and D because they are arguably the most iconic.
     
     They are the only cerebrate characters to ever appear before Blizzard shafted the zerg and turned them into Kerry’s and Amon’s slaves.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Commander Concept: Zasz and Daggoth

    Several cerebrates are named in the lore. Daggoth, Nargil, Gorn, Zasz, Araq, Kagg, Auza and Zargil.

     

    There were apparently countless others in the background that were not mentioned.

    Posted in: General Chat
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