Hmm, I see. I intend to see the concept through, and there is always a way. For the optional bad guy bases, destroying 1 could lower the amount of souls drained from your units dying, but cause the enemies to drain the soul of their own slain units. For karax, he cannot win any faster than a normal commander, right? I think I can come up with a separate objective for each commander, unique to their play style.
I think with the slow decline of trievas map, he became more critical of other maps. The realization of how dumb the average arcade player is, he attempts to embody that perspective.
Anyway, I work outta town but am home on weekends. If you make a list of things you'd like help with, I'll try to help you get them done so that by the end of the month, you can get some reviews on the updated project.
Thanks for the heads up ducky. I was planning to make it based on supply count, would that work for the above commanders? So a zergling would be .5 while a carrier was 8, or whatever they are these days.
Lack of interest, not surprised. My plan is to still win one of the "this map is unique" prizes. After discussing the rules a bit with people (mostly eric) it seems the only hard-set rules (which might cause you to be disqualified) are that it must be in the starcraft universe, between 2 missions, it must be 2 player (and should require teamwork, and solo points) , and it must not lag to play.
Though there is a lot of suggested nonsense, (stuff that is required if you want to win the grand-prize, for a blizzard look-alike contest), there is still a lot of room within the rules to make an exceptional game. And I have been thinking of some neat ideas; and think I have a unique one.
MY unique idea, which anyone is free to use or modify or join me with: Opening the dark portal in wc3, combined with starcraft 2. "something something something protoss portal (giant beast from another dimension eating your souls)". every unit that dies goes to feed the portal (too many deaths early on, you lose) Portal can be destroyed by destroying base, or big boss spawns after certain time; strength based on souls fed to portal. Rescueable NPC units, who are killed if you dont save them in time; feeding the portal. Mini-bosses defending special enemy structures which can be destroyed, to remove (custom) upgrades from them, making the fight easier in specific ways; allowing each commander type to gain an advantage.
For the attack ability; you could make a persistent, so the attack fires 7 times; but checks each time to make sure the target is still alive; and that the SCV has enough energy to make the attack. It would be exactly the same as it is now; except rather thank clicking 6 times to kill an overlord, you would click once, and it would fire until you were out of energy or the overlord was dead.
Other than that, im not positive what each of your responses are to ><
I have been leaving r0binicus thoughts and such via sc2 chat; but will post some feedback here for others to read. A lot of my opinions are shared by Treiva.
The loading screen means nothing to me; but you cannot expect someone to read all of it. Keep that in mind with text on a loading screen. The game is paused on the start. You could far more easily fade into an introduction cinematic, of the lander crashing. Panning over some zerg infested terrain, showing a lander crash, "other survivors" get eaten by zerg at night; then day breaks and the players jump out of the ship. Using only a few short transmissions, and some cinematics, you can tell the entire story and concept of the game in less than 20 seconds.
You start out with a builder, and there are some minerals. so, I mine minerals. That is what intuitivity tells me to do. But I cannot spend the minerals on anything. I assume SCV's are weak, so I am afraid to run around and find mineral packs and scraps. I NEED scraps to build turrets. I think you could create a scrap and mineral cluster for each player, that only they can pick up, and that is visible to them on start. You need to show players that exploring is important, and that your SCV can take some hits.
The first night falls, and any new player is still mining minerals (the mission objective told me to). They are left to defend with their lazer beam; which works, but is pretty angering, and can induce panic. Even worse if you built walls, and auto repair is enabled; so you are wasting your minerals repairing walls you wasted minerals building.
After playing with R0binicus, I see how "imbalanced" parts of the game quickly become. Being told "don't build those, because this is much better", by the guy in charge of making sure stuff is well balanced so new players aren't getting the shaft, is a little upsetting. The difference between getting a dozen mules the first night, and not finding a factors because you are a noob; is an income factor of 10. It is absolutely insane the minerals they give you; to the point that you cannot lose. As a new player, playing tree times, I went as far as I felt safe in every direction with my SCV, and never found the factory. The "You must do this" part of it, is to uplift it, and bring it to your base; NOT defend it where it is. Once in the air, it cannot be killed anyway. Same goes for building a bunch of bases to lift off scout the map at the start. One of those things that alters the game by such an exponential amount, and new players have absolutely no clue about.
The game has many ways to win, which I think is awesome. Especially since the end starts to drag; I think it leaves plenty of time to accomplish those goals. You need to make those goals more intuitive though. Again, through short cut scenes and transmissions, you can show players how to win in those other ways. You can have a transmission from a drop ship in orbit; have launch a "location beacon" into the earth at a point, and advise the players that if they build more of them; the dropship can safely land and save them. This goes for all of the various win conditions. There is a lot you can do with 15-20 second cutscenes, during an hour long game, to make the game far more intuitive for players; opposed to reading all of the text; or being left clueless.
After talking with r0binicus, I can get his viewpoint of the game, and it is a place a lot of developers end up. He loves the game, and is insanely good at it, putting him too close to the action to see clearly. This is why he made an extremely difficult version of the game for himself and his buddy. There is a lot of really good content and options here; it is just presented poorly to new people; and some balance issues that can severely hinder a new player.
Also the lag, someone here might know a bit more. running the 32 bit version of the game, there isn't lag in the game. it is playing x64 that the lag is bad. The last time I played though, the lag wasn't as bad as it was my first few times. There was a clear frame drop, but not a horrible lag spike that would have me considering alt+f4.
Final verdict: A very good map that has pretty bad presentation. I love the variety in ways to win; but dislike how "mandatory" some things are if you are playing above normal. I think there is a lot of work that can be done to better explain the story and how to play the game; which would result in a better player return rate.
Do realize almost 1.5 pages of the rules amount to: Don't make a map that will tank in performance.
I get this. I get that blizzard wants something very specific too. Look at the rules for all of the other RTC contests. They never had rules regulating the direction your ramps are facing; the types of shadows, the weather effects, the height of doodads.
If Blizzard follows the posted criteria, as they say they do, it is pretty obvious why they have such little variety. Their goal should be to increase their options, allowing them to be more unique going forward.
I would also like to point out, that blizzard even states that "theses are just guidelines" and that I will not be disqualified for not using them; I will just lose grading points.
Again, this is why I am posting a separate thread, and not offering to team up with people who have already posted to show interest in the contest. I have a different goal; and am looking for someone else who has that goal. If you do not agree with my opinion, that is fine; as it is just my opinion. I am not trying to alter anyone's opinion.
Thank you for pointing out that I was very clear in getting my point across. I am sure there are some people a little slower than you who may not have picked up on it.
Reading the 3 pages of "rules" set forth, I do not believe there are even a dozen possible variations of map that can fit within those insanely strict guidelines. In my opinion, it goes against everything that RTC is; and comes off more as an application to blizzard. "Look, I can make something exactly like the 50 other things just like this that blizzard has made."
I am against it. I am so against it, that I would like to make a map the fits the criteria just enough that they have to test it; and show that just about anything can be better than playing 50 do-overs of the same mission.
I see there are other thread where people are looking for a partner; and for this very rare occurrence, I am looking to be a partner. I phrase it like this because I do not play ladder, or campaign, or co-op. I have very few ideas or goals towards a final product. I honestly don't even know what a "co-op commander" game is like. The extent of my knowledge of that you need to spread out your marines so banelings dont kill them all. I learned that while testing last months "monthly testing thread" game.
What I bring to the table: I am very good with triggers. I can create pretty good dialogs. I am good at data, making custom abilities and upgrades and such. Pretty much anything RPG related (using the built-in AI is something I have never looked at, but I can learn it fast; or just create my own AI for everything in the game, I have one of the few working hero AI systems in sc2).
the style of game I am looking for:
One where my abilities in the editor can shine. Depth, layers of customization. I want the game experience to have true options, bringing a player back to play it again and again. I don't know the main game storyline; but I want to have a unique twist on it. Something refreshing. An M. Night Shyamalan plot-twist.
The partner I am looking for: As I consider myself a 9/10 in triggers and an 8/10 in data, I am looking for someone who is equally skilled at story-writing, terraining, and has experience with actors. Eye candy. Also a huge plus if you have any notion of how triggers work; so I can set up systems, and you can fill in simple blanks (like transmissions, texts, icons, things related to story telling).
**Edit**
I feel it is important to note, that my interest is not in strictly following the guidelines put forth by Blizzard; but to make the best game of all the entries; win or lose. Anyone who is only looking at dollar signs, I am not the dood your looking for.
I am not saying that it is unfathomable; I am using it as an example to support that the site is modern, and more about page views, and keeping updates a "buzz in your pocket away"; than promoting a strong central community, with things like reputation, forum ranks, a main page, color.
True, there is an unfollow button. But, the defaults are set to follow everything, and to have everything emailed to you. How many people out there are excited when they order something online, and start getting 3 emails a day from "Macy's" about their sales, deals, news, stock ticker. No one wants that garbage. Imagine if you were subbed to every video you watched on youtube.
I suspect this question has already been answered but I am not prepared to loose through those 13 pages to find it.
how do you give thanks and gain titles?
See this blank white crispness? It screams "I am modern, I am minimal" and in a modern, minimalist society, things like "titles", "ranks", "thanks", ect, come far behind things like "follows" which will now be emailed to you 16 times per day to make sure you are constantly re-visiting the site, but not enjoying your stay.
@GlornII: The arcade links you've posted in the first thread are from the previous testing thread. I couldn't find it with the search bar, so I got the map by looking page by page for the logo that appeared in .
The US link is this: starcraft://map/1/273307
I'm going to play it now solo. I'll try recording it too.
Fixed, thanks. The game takes nearly an hour, and I cant get my video recording to compress enough to make anything longer than 15 min. I plan to do just an intro video for anyone who hasn't played and needs tips. I didn't know that this was already done for a bi-weekly test by Jay. thanks for the video link.
Lol. that would be sad. I've played the game a few times, and beaten it once (all solo). I wanted to play it multiplayer before I posted a review though. I also see on the US servers that it had jumped to page 4; so people have been playing it; but no one has been posting reviews ><.
0
Hmm, I see. I intend to see the concept through, and there is always a way. For the optional bad guy bases, destroying 1 could lower the amount of souls drained from your units dying, but cause the enemies to drain the soul of their own slain units. For karax, he cannot win any faster than a normal commander, right? I think I can come up with a separate objective for each commander, unique to their play style.
1
I think with the slow decline of trievas map, he became more critical of other maps. The realization of how dumb the average arcade player is, he attempts to embody that perspective.
Anyway, I work outta town but am home on weekends. If you make a list of things you'd like help with, I'll try to help you get them done so that by the end of the month, you can get some reviews on the updated project.
0
Thanks for the heads up ducky. I was planning to make it based on supply count, would that work for the above commanders? So a zergling would be .5 while a carrier was 8, or whatever they are these days.
0
Lack of interest, not surprised. My plan is to still win one of the "this map is unique" prizes. After discussing the rules a bit with people (mostly eric) it seems the only hard-set rules (which might cause you to be disqualified) are that it must be in the starcraft universe, between 2 missions, it must be 2 player (and should require teamwork, and solo points) , and it must not lag to play.
Though there is a lot of suggested nonsense, (stuff that is required if you want to win the grand-prize, for a blizzard look-alike contest), there is still a lot of room within the rules to make an exceptional game. And I have been thinking of some neat ideas; and think I have a unique one.
MY unique idea, which anyone is free to use or modify or join me with:
Opening the dark portal in wc3, combined with starcraft 2. "something something something protoss portal (giant beast from another dimension eating your souls)". every unit that dies goes to feed the portal (too many deaths early on, you lose) Portal can be destroyed by destroying base, or big boss spawns after certain time; strength based on souls fed to portal. Rescueable NPC units, who are killed if you dont save them in time; feeding the portal. Mini-bosses defending special enemy structures which can be destroyed, to remove (custom) upgrades from them, making the fight easier in specific ways; allowing each commander type to gain an advantage.
1
For the attack ability; you could make a persistent, so the attack fires 7 times; but checks each time to make sure the target is still alive; and that the SCV has enough energy to make the attack. It would be exactly the same as it is now; except rather thank clicking 6 times to kill an overlord, you would click once, and it would fire until you were out of energy or the overlord was dead.
Other than that, im not positive what each of your responses are to ><
1
I have been leaving r0binicus thoughts and such via sc2 chat; but will post some feedback here for others to read. A lot of my opinions are shared by Treiva.
The loading screen means nothing to me; but you cannot expect someone to read all of it. Keep that in mind with text on a loading screen. The game is paused on the start. You could far more easily fade into an introduction cinematic, of the lander crashing. Panning over some zerg infested terrain, showing a lander crash, "other survivors" get eaten by zerg at night; then day breaks and the players jump out of the ship. Using only a few short transmissions, and some cinematics, you can tell the entire story and concept of the game in less than 20 seconds.
You start out with a builder, and there are some minerals. so, I mine minerals. That is what intuitivity tells me to do. But I cannot spend the minerals on anything. I assume SCV's are weak, so I am afraid to run around and find mineral packs and scraps. I NEED scraps to build turrets. I think you could create a scrap and mineral cluster for each player, that only they can pick up, and that is visible to them on start. You need to show players that exploring is important, and that your SCV can take some hits.
The first night falls, and any new player is still mining minerals (the mission objective told me to). They are left to defend with their lazer beam; which works, but is pretty angering, and can induce panic. Even worse if you built walls, and auto repair is enabled; so you are wasting your minerals repairing walls you wasted minerals building.
After playing with R0binicus, I see how "imbalanced" parts of the game quickly become. Being told "don't build those, because this is much better", by the guy in charge of making sure stuff is well balanced so new players aren't getting the shaft, is a little upsetting. The difference between getting a dozen mules the first night, and not finding a factors because you are a noob; is an income factor of 10. It is absolutely insane the minerals they give you; to the point that you cannot lose. As a new player, playing tree times, I went as far as I felt safe in every direction with my SCV, and never found the factory. The "You must do this" part of it, is to uplift it, and bring it to your base; NOT defend it where it is. Once in the air, it cannot be killed anyway. Same goes for building a bunch of bases to lift off scout the map at the start. One of those things that alters the game by such an exponential amount, and new players have absolutely no clue about.
The game has many ways to win, which I think is awesome. Especially since the end starts to drag; I think it leaves plenty of time to accomplish those goals. You need to make those goals more intuitive though. Again, through short cut scenes and transmissions, you can show players how to win in those other ways. You can have a transmission from a drop ship in orbit; have launch a "location beacon" into the earth at a point, and advise the players that if they build more of them; the dropship can safely land and save them. This goes for all of the various win conditions. There is a lot you can do with 15-20 second cutscenes, during an hour long game, to make the game far more intuitive for players; opposed to reading all of the text; or being left clueless.
After talking with r0binicus, I can get his viewpoint of the game, and it is a place a lot of developers end up. He loves the game, and is insanely good at it, putting him too close to the action to see clearly. This is why he made an extremely difficult version of the game for himself and his buddy. There is a lot of really good content and options here; it is just presented poorly to new people; and some balance issues that can severely hinder a new player.
Also the lag, someone here might know a bit more. running the 32 bit version of the game, there isn't lag in the game. it is playing x64 that the lag is bad. The last time I played though, the lag wasn't as bad as it was my first few times. There was a clear frame drop, but not a horrible lag spike that would have me considering alt+f4.
Final verdict:
A very good map that has pretty bad presentation. I love the variety in ways to win; but dislike how "mandatory" some things are if you are playing above normal. I think there is a lot of work that can be done to better explain the story and how to play the game; which would result in a better player return rate.
0
If Blizzard follows the posted criteria, as they say they do, it is pretty obvious why they have such little variety. Their goal should be to increase their options, allowing them to be more unique going forward.
I would also like to point out, that blizzard even states that "theses are just guidelines" and that I will not be disqualified for not using them; I will just lose grading points.
Again, this is why I am posting a separate thread, and not offering to team up with people who have already posted to show interest in the contest. I have a different goal; and am looking for someone else who has that goal. If you do not agree with my opinion, that is fine; as it is just my opinion. I am not trying to alter anyone's opinion.
0.987421383647799
Thank you for pointing out that I was very clear in getting my point across. I am sure there are some people a little slower than you who may not have picked up on it.
Reading the 3 pages of "rules" set forth, I do not believe there are even a dozen possible variations of map that can fit within those insanely strict guidelines. In my opinion, it goes against everything that RTC is; and comes off more as an application to blizzard. "Look, I can make something exactly like the 50 other things just like this that blizzard has made."
I am against it. I am so against it, that I would like to make a map the fits the criteria just enough that they have to test it; and show that just about anything can be better than playing 50 do-overs of the same mission.
0.979166666666667
I see there are other thread where people are looking for a partner; and for this very rare occurrence, I am looking to be a partner. I phrase it like this because I do not play ladder, or campaign, or co-op. I have very few ideas or goals towards a final product. I honestly don't even know what a "co-op commander" game is like. The extent of my knowledge of that you need to spread out your marines so banelings dont kill them all. I learned that while testing last months "monthly testing thread" game.
What I bring to the table:
I am very good with triggers. I can create pretty good dialogs. I am good at data, making custom abilities and upgrades and such. Pretty much anything RPG related (using the built-in AI is something I have never looked at, but I can learn it fast; or just create my own AI for everything in the game, I have one of the few working hero AI systems in sc2).
the style of game I am looking for:
One where my abilities in the editor can shine. Depth, layers of customization. I want the game experience to have true options, bringing a player back to play it again and again. I don't know the main game storyline; but I want to have a unique twist on it. Something refreshing. An M. Night Shyamalan plot-twist.
The partner I am looking for:
As I consider myself a 9/10 in triggers and an 8/10 in data, I am looking for someone who is equally skilled at story-writing, terraining, and has experience with actors. Eye candy. Also a huge plus if you have any notion of how triggers work; so I can set up systems, and you can fill in simple blanks (like transmissions, texts, icons, things related to story telling).
**Edit**
I feel it is important to note, that my interest is not in strictly following the guidelines put forth by Blizzard; but to make the best game of all the entries; win or lose. Anyone who is only looking at dollar signs, I am not the dood your looking for.
1
How did the lag improvements turn out in online games? Does it still spike?
0
I am not saying that it is unfathomable; I am using it as an example to support that the site is modern, and more about page views, and keeping updates a "buzz in your pocket away"; than promoting a strong central community, with things like reputation, forum ranks, a main page, color.
0
True, there is an unfollow button. But, the defaults are set to follow everything, and to have everything emailed to you. How many people out there are excited when they order something online, and start getting 3 emails a day from "Macy's" about their sales, deals, news, stock ticker. No one wants that garbage. Imagine if you were subbed to every video you watched on youtube.
0
0
The game takes nearly an hour, and I cant get my video recording to compress enough to make anything longer than 15 min. I plan to do just an intro video for anyone who hasn't played and needs tips. I didn't know that this was already done for a bi-weekly test by Jay. thanks for the video link.
0
Lol. that would be sad. I've played the game a few times, and beaten it once (all solo). I wanted to play it multiplayer before I posted a review though. I also see on the US servers that it had jumped to page 4; so people have been playing it; but no one has been posting reviews ><.