I can't believe a pretentious coward like yourself actually became a moderator on this site. I'm glad I turned Sixen down when he asked me to be one - I wouldn't want to work with someone like you.
... Ah, and falling on the bible, the truth, the real God. The God you can feel. The God that answers prayers. Cant express the sigh of relieve. Suffice to say, all other bs is no longer of any interest for me.
... God is not a hypothesis. Its a logical answer of which the definition fulfills the equation. You do not know the definition. Science will never solve the equation unless they understand the definition. You will be stuck in chain logic and come to a stumbling block unless you understand it. ...
... Bible, yea, you cant prove its wrong like some sort of science, ...
Look man. I really, really, REALLY REALLY REALLY wish all this was true. For example, my relationship with my parents is very strained right now because I despise the way they raised me and my siblings (sheltered, taught us almost nothing but their religion); but this relationship would be healed if I believed in god/etc. But I can't do the faith thing, lying to myself would be even worse than this.
I have sacrificed A LOT of my time trying to figure out what I can about god; and by all accounts I am no fool. But the more I learn the less I believe in god... and yet here you strut around acting like it's OBVIOUS. I have thick skin, but this attitude is particularly insulting fyi.
Regardless, I wasn't kidding when I said you were the only one who's made me question my lack of belief recently. You seem so incredibly sure about god, but I didn't think that was why you're the most convincing theist I've listened to... Being the searching soul that I am, I ask you how you know what you know about god (page 9). You make a huge post (page 23) containing unique definitions for already decently established terms, largely avoiding the question at hand; at best you establish that God is the name you give the force that "started" this universe... even Mozared comments,
I think you just explained in a really detailed way that something exists (or existed) that put everything into motion. ...
You do not really explain how you logically get from that to a god/deity/father that cares about me, does miracles, gives me the potential to inherit eternal life, wants me to believe him and worship him, gives me 10 commandments that I will be punished if I break without repenting, and does it all for his own glory. Nor do you come close to explaining satan's existence. So I ask again (page 24). Ignored. But this is really important to me, so I ask again (page 37). Ignored. Again.
This last time I asked you a very pointed question: "Do you rely on faith?". The first time you answered a question like this in this thread, you did not list faith as one of the reasons for your belief, only evidence. Indeed, you even gave faith a new definition: "... Faith is the realization of Knowledge which is ...". And here I am still wondering if you can actually explain your absolute belief in god... you see, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I shouldn't be able to list even half of those. For someone who's so sure about something, your arguments should be able to stand by themselves, don't you think? For someone who professes to be so educated, this should be second nature to you by now. Indeed, you are the most convincing theist I have talked to.. but apparently even you can't defend the position without resorting to so many logical fallacies.
TLBarrin:
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If I were to answer your question, it is possible to take any knowledge from other sources by investigation as revelation from God.
For example?
Quote:
It is crucial though to accept as believers that all we know about God is what is revealed.
So what we know about god is what is revealed. Where does what is revealed come from? What is revealed comes from other people... so it is thus logical to conclude that all we know about god comes from other people; or, at the very least, is hear-say? Or has god revealed himself to you?
You keep claiming that you have such concrete knowledge of God. But I am still waiting for you to actually explain how you know that he is and does what you think is and does.
So far all we have established is that there was something that turned a lot of energy into a lot of mass ("creation", if you will) some time ago. I can agree with you here; Science has a place for something like this called the Higgs Boson particle - it's what the Large Hadron Collider (SUPER expensive machine) was built to find.
But how do you get from (A) turning energy into mass to (B) a deity/god/father that cares about me, wants me to believe in and worship him so he can perform miracles and reward me with eternal life, has 10 commandments he will judge me with and punish me if I don't follow, and does all of this for his own glory?
Seems like a bit of a stretch to me - was hoping you had more to explain.
Why would something create life if it had no purpose for it.
I do not accept your personification of said force. And nowhere did I call it a creative force - I don't think it created anything. Mass is energy, the energy was already there IMO (don't ask me where it came from). When I say 'started it all', I only mean something that turned this energy into mass (which apparently had many effects).
From what I can tell, we haven't proved any farther than that.
Why would gravity make things come closer together if it didn't have a purpose for it? Silly question isn't it? Who's to say it 'has a purpose' beyond pure cause and effect? Maybe it just 'does' and there ya go do with it as you will. Shrug.
I too believe that there was some force that started it all.
You did answer what I actually asked, but I guess what I meant to ask is: how do you get from a starting force.. to a God/Deity/'Father' that cares about me, does miracles, gives me the potential to inherit eternal life, wants me to believe in him and worship him, gives me 10 commandments that I should repent if I don't follow or else he'll punish me, and does all of this for his own glory?
And how did you come to the conclusion of Satan's existence?
I have so many questions :( if Satan exists, he is powerful indeed.
I actually spent over 500 hours (6+ months) working on Breadth of Gameplay in SC2 where I promoted the '6m1g' / FRB concept (it was 'almost done' most of that time). I'd imagine you feel even more strongly about this than I do about that; take your time no pressure.
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?
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@Charysmatic: Go
You're right, that's not the only thing I was looking for at all when I started, but somewhere along the way it was.
I'm actually pretty relieved.
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I'm glad you finally dropped your arrogance and stupidity; this admission is all I was looking for.
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Wow. You won't even respond to me EW?
I can't believe a pretentious coward like yourself actually became a moderator on this site. I'm glad I turned Sixen down when he asked me to be one - I wouldn't want to work with someone like you.
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EternalWraith. Buddy. I think it's time we had a little chat.
Look man. I really, really, REALLY REALLY REALLY wish all this was true. For example, my relationship with my parents is very strained right now because I despise the way they raised me and my siblings (sheltered, taught us almost nothing but their religion); but this relationship would be healed if I believed in god/etc. But I can't do the faith thing, lying to myself would be even worse than this.
I have sacrificed A LOT of my time trying to figure out what I can about god; and by all accounts I am no fool. But the more I learn the less I believe in god... and yet here you strut around acting like it's OBVIOUS. I have thick skin, but this attitude is particularly insulting fyi.
Regardless, I wasn't kidding when I said you were the only one who's made me question my lack of belief recently. You seem so incredibly sure about god, but I didn't think that was why you're the most convincing theist I've listened to... Being the searching soul that I am, I ask you how you know what you know about god (page 9). You make a huge post (page 23) containing unique definitions for already decently established terms, largely avoiding the question at hand; at best you establish that God is the name you give the force that "started" this universe... even Mozared comments,
You do not really explain how you logically get from that to a god/deity/father that cares about me, does miracles, gives me the potential to inherit eternal life, wants me to believe him and worship him, gives me 10 commandments that I will be punished if I break without repenting, and does it all for his own glory. Nor do you come close to explaining satan's existence. So I ask again (page 24). Ignored. But this is really important to me, so I ask again (page 37). Ignored. Again.
This last time I asked you a very pointed question: "Do you rely on faith?". The first time you answered a question like this in this thread, you did not list faith as one of the reasons for your belief, only evidence. Indeed, you even gave faith a new definition: "... Faith is the realization of Knowledge which is ...". And here I am still wondering if you can actually explain your absolute belief in god... you see, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Honestly, you had my hopes up at a point or two in this thread. But upon reflection and close examination, I find that you cannot defend your position without resorting to a slew of logical fallacies, such as: argumentum ad baculum, argumentum ad verecundiam, argumentum ad hominem, argumentum verbosium, affirming the consequent, appeal to emotion, begging the question, cherry picking, equivocation, non-squitur, red herring, conjunction fallacy, historian's fallacy, homunculus fallacy, mind projection fallacy, nirvana fallacy, and at least a few cognitive biases.
I shouldn't be able to list even half of those. For someone who's so sure about something, your arguments should be able to stand by themselves, don't you think? For someone who professes to be so educated, this should be second nature to you by now. Indeed, you are the most convincing theist I have talked to.. but apparently even you can't defend the position without resorting to so many logical fallacies.
-So how do you come to find the truth?
Is it through (a) FAITH, (b) KNOWLEDGE, (c) DOUBTING, and/or (d) DISCUSSIONS that one finds the truth? Apparently you can't even agree with yourself.
-Here's something I can learn from. I don't think I have any more time for discourse with a person that insists on believing in miracles.
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holy shit
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For example?
So what we know about god is what is revealed. Where does what is revealed come from? What is revealed comes from other people... so it is thus logical to conclude that all we know about god comes from other people; or, at the very least, is hear-say? Or has god revealed himself to you?
-That's fine. Just be willing to admit it.
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@EternalWraith: Go
You keep claiming that you have such concrete knowledge of God. But I am still waiting for you to actually explain how you know that he is and does what you think is and does.
So far all we have established is that there was something that turned a lot of energy into a lot of mass ("creation", if you will) some time ago. I can agree with you here; Science has a place for something like this called the Higgs Boson particle - it's what the Large Hadron Collider (SUPER expensive machine) was built to find.
But how do you get from (A) turning energy into mass to (B) a deity/god/father that cares about me, wants me to believe in and worship him so he can perform miracles and reward me with eternal life, has 10 commandments he will judge me with and punish me if I don't follow, and does all of this for his own glory?
Seems like a bit of a stretch to me - was hoping you had more to explain.
Do you rely on faith?
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whats happening o.O
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you're*
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I do not accept your personification of said force. And nowhere did I call it a creative force - I don't think it created anything. Mass is energy, the energy was already there IMO (don't ask me where it came from). When I say 'started it all', I only mean something that turned this energy into mass (which apparently had many effects).
From what I can tell, we haven't proved any farther than that.
Why would gravity make things come closer together if it didn't have a purpose for it? Silly question isn't it? Who's to say it 'has a purpose' beyond pure cause and effect? Maybe it just 'does' and there ya go do with it as you will. Shrug.
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@EternalWraith: Go
Thanks for post, learned a bunch +1 :)
I too believe that there was some force that started it all.
You did answer what I actually asked, but I guess what I meant to ask is: how do you get from a starting force.. to a God/Deity/'Father' that cares about me, does miracles, gives me the potential to inherit eternal life, wants me to believe in him and worship him, gives me 10 commandments that I should repent if I don't follow or else he'll punish me, and does all of this for his own glory?
And how did you come to the conclusion of Satan's existence?
I have so many questions :( if Satan exists, he is powerful indeed.
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@EternalWraith: Go
I actually spent over 500 hours (6+ months) working on Breadth of Gameplay in SC2 where I promoted the '6m1g' / FRB concept (it was 'almost done' most of that time). I'd imagine you feel even more strongly about this than I do about that; take your time no pressure.
(epic shameless plug if I do say so myself )
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:) Appreciate it, u are one of very few ppl who have recently challenged my (lack of) believe. I'm on a learning spree.
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I will remember this; I could probably use a consultant on some future character developments. <3