I checked and there is a transient flag for research abilities. My point was that it doesn't tie up the build queue and you can use the specializations even if something else is researching.
I know I would hate it if I was researching +1 atk on the forge and it was half done, but then I forgot to specialize, so I can't build an immortal without cancelling the upgrade or waiting another 80 seconds to do so.
Also, if the specializations were on the starting buildings with their current 4 second build time, it would prevent you from building workers during the time you're upgrading. If they were instant I guess it wouldn't matter so much, but 4 seconds x the number of specializations can add up in the early game where every second can matter.
For zerg, I would stick the specialization upgrade on the hatchery because it's never doing anything in the early game. It'll always be unoccupied until you're building a queen or something and can't impact on other build timings. But I don't see anything wrong with putting it on the overlord either
Sorry for not replying faster - I've been play testing your map between posts.
My extended melee map is called Bizarro World. On Bnet, you can search up Bizarro Ice Temple or Bizarro Crevasse.
This was my first ever custom mapping project. I started it back in October of last year because I was raging at how impossible it seemed to stop 3rax with protoss. So, instead of balance QQ on forums, I just went and nerfed/buffed the units myself. And eventually I just started learning how to do stuff and coming up with cool ideas for new and old units.
When I last counted, I think the tech tree is more than 3x as big as before, so all the races have a lot of new options. Although, I'll be the first to admit that I may have made protoss a little overpowered. But they deserve it given how they're being thrashed lately by them korean terrans.
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I know what you mean about having to redo dialog triggers in maps. It sucks and defeats the purpose. Having to manually update the dependency for each map everytime you make a change to your mod is bad enough.
I agree that you shouldn't have to pick before you have to, but at the same time, if you can't pick before you need to, that's a problem. Like if you went for a 1 gate FE and you need a stalker so marines don't kite you to death, then you're in a bind because you can't afford a forge in that build.
My reasoning for suggesting the pylon/depot is that those buildings you would be always getting anyway (unlike a forge), and they have basically empty command cards.
But if you were still intent on using the starting buildings, couldn't you just use submenu buttons on the command card? Then you could put the whole array on cards 3 and 4. You have a single specializer button in the middle of the command card and that opens up submenu 2 that lets you pick between units and tribe submenu; then 3 is the units and 4 is the tribe specialization. Seems like a lot of buttons to click though.
And I haven't played around with it yet, but doesn't that new 'transient' flag that blizzard put in last patch allow you to give ability commands that don't use the unit's command queue? If so, that would actually address my earlier qualm about it eating into build time for other buildings. Then you actually could build/research concurrently with specializing.
As a fellow extended melee map maker, I saw your map/thread and was interested to see what kind of ideas other people had in making customized melee maps. I have to say that your map is certainly a lot more ambitious than mine - making a fracticious tribal system takes a lot more work than merely adding units and powers into the existing tech tree.
I haven't gotten a chance to try out all the tribes yet, but I did play through as protoss a few times. From a gameplay aspect, I really think it would be better if you were to move your tribe upgrade/specializations onto the pylon/supply depot/hatchery or something like that.
The reason for this is that it totally messes up the early game. There are lots of times were I don't have the resources to build a forge before getting my first stalker/dragoon. By having the upgrades on the above buildings, you can make the selections early, but also don't eat into time that would be needed on buildings that make probes or warpgate or things like that.
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@SoulFilcher:
I checked and there is a transient flag for research abilities. My point was that it doesn't tie up the build queue and you can use the specializations even if something else is researching.
I know I would hate it if I was researching +1 atk on the forge and it was half done, but then I forgot to specialize, so I can't build an immortal without cancelling the upgrade or waiting another 80 seconds to do so.
Also, if the specializations were on the starting buildings with their current 4 second build time, it would prevent you from building workers during the time you're upgrading. If they were instant I guess it wouldn't matter so much, but 4 seconds x the number of specializations can add up in the early game where every second can matter.
For zerg, I would stick the specialization upgrade on the hatchery because it's never doing anything in the early game. It'll always be unoccupied until you're building a queen or something and can't impact on other build timings. But I don't see anything wrong with putting it on the overlord either
0
@SoulFilcher:
Sorry for not replying faster - I've been play testing your map between posts.
My extended melee map is called Bizarro World. On Bnet, you can search up Bizarro Ice Temple or Bizarro Crevasse.
This was my first ever custom mapping project. I started it back in October of last year because I was raging at how impossible it seemed to stop 3rax with protoss. So, instead of balance QQ on forums, I just went and nerfed/buffed the units myself. And eventually I just started learning how to do stuff and coming up with cool ideas for new and old units.
When I last counted, I think the tech tree is more than 3x as big as before, so all the races have a lot of new options. Although, I'll be the first to admit that I may have made protoss a little overpowered. But they deserve it given how they're being thrashed lately by them korean terrans.
****
I know what you mean about having to redo dialog triggers in maps. It sucks and defeats the purpose. Having to manually update the dependency for each map everytime you make a change to your mod is bad enough.
0
I agree that you shouldn't have to pick before you have to, but at the same time, if you can't pick before you need to, that's a problem. Like if you went for a 1 gate FE and you need a stalker so marines don't kite you to death, then you're in a bind because you can't afford a forge in that build.
My reasoning for suggesting the pylon/depot is that those buildings you would be always getting anyway (unlike a forge), and they have basically empty command cards.
But if you were still intent on using the starting buildings, couldn't you just use submenu buttons on the command card? Then you could put the whole array on cards 3 and 4. You have a single specializer button in the middle of the command card and that opens up submenu 2 that lets you pick between units and tribe submenu; then 3 is the units and 4 is the tribe specialization. Seems like a lot of buttons to click though.
And I haven't played around with it yet, but doesn't that new 'transient' flag that blizzard put in last patch allow you to give ability commands that don't use the unit's command queue? If so, that would actually address my earlier qualm about it eating into build time for other buildings. Then you actually could build/research concurrently with specializing.
0
As a fellow extended melee map maker, I saw your map/thread and was interested to see what kind of ideas other people had in making customized melee maps. I have to say that your map is certainly a lot more ambitious than mine - making a fracticious tribal system takes a lot more work than merely adding units and powers into the existing tech tree.
I haven't gotten a chance to try out all the tribes yet, but I did play through as protoss a few times. From a gameplay aspect, I really think it would be better if you were to move your tribe upgrade/specializations onto the pylon/supply depot/hatchery or something like that.
The reason for this is that it totally messes up the early game. There are lots of times were I don't have the resources to build a forge before getting my first stalker/dragoon. By having the upgrades on the above buildings, you can make the selections early, but also don't eat into time that would be needed on buildings that make probes or warpgate or things like that.