Mozared, that was brilliant- and beautiful. I second that explanation, it's the only reason I even decided to dignify this topic with a response. There is a lot of reasons: jealously, sick of hearing about him, hate the music, but I think most people just hate the corporate bs.
I myself have no ill will, or feeling at all. In fact- I just filed his folder in my brain as "IRRELEVANT", with a big red rubber stamp, and went on with my life.
Side Note: I've been searching the forums for an answer for quite a while. I see that to create an AI you would most likely use Triggers, but some have suggested that the data module is capable of it too- although I've not seen proof of this yet. However, while my question is related to that, my goal is somewhat more simple than that.
Question: How would someone expand on the melee AI? Is there a way to edit the default melee AI? Or, where is the AI located in the editor?
Example: If I add a new structure that is available to an SCV, how would I actually be able to change the default AI for it to recognize and build this new structure (at a reasonable point during melee gameplay)?
Comment: Right now it seems like I would have to actually recreate the whole AI from scratch, and that seems silly to do just for 1 or two extra units/structures. Additionally, I would be highly disappointed in the power of the editor if this were the case- PLEASE say it ain't so!
I'm glad you figure it out! I was certain that even with limited experience you would get the point. Onto answer your question: no it doesn't exactly work the way that one would expect. I'm pretty sure it actually take your base ms: say it's 3.00. Then it applies the behavior once to slow it by 0.80. If we multiply the two numbers we get: 2.4. THEN it applies the behavior again ON TOP of the new amount so it takes 2.4 and slows it by 0.80 which is 1.92- not the 1.80 that you should expect.
However, I figured that since you didn't know that much about the editor, you wouldn't care if it was exactly correct. There is a way to get it to work perfectly like you mentioned, but it gets a bit more complicated. Basically it would be what Nardival mentioned in his "neater version".
This is actually pretty simple. You just need an effect, validator, and a behavior. I'll explain this quickly, and assume that you have a basic understanding of the editor, just do as follows:
To start, create an "Apply Behavior" effect, just change the behavior to be set to a new buff that we will create. The behavior is going to slow MS by setting the movement fraction to 0.80. Then you make the maximum stack count to 5 with a periodic effect that apply's our behavior yet again, and set the period duration to be 0.8. Lastly make a validator that counts the number of behaviors on the unit, making sure that it is set to the our behavior being "less than 5". Next just set that validator to be in the "validator remove" field of the the behavior.
There you have it. Now whenever the buff is applied once to a unit, it will continuously reapply itself until it hits 5, at which point it will be removed. Since the unit is slowed more with each stack count, it will progressively get slower as well. Let me know if you have questions!
Looks like someone beat me to it, oh well, I'll post anyways.
You might want to clarify what you mean about this "Lifesteal through data editor doesn't work.", as it does in fact work. It might not work WELL, but it does work. So I think you should explain what you mean by that.
I'm not trying to argue you, but I just want other people who read this to know exactly what you mean by that statement.
5 Heroes and 18 Spells each...yeah I would definitely go with triggers. Especially, if that list will get larger later on in the development of the game, planning ahead is crucial. Besides, it will be much cleaner for you to work with, since you won't have a clutter of data.
No that's fine, each player can have one hero of EACH variety. That is because the game saves separate versions of each ability/spell and everything else for each player individually. So each player has their own instance of everything you created in the data module, which can be modified without affecting the data of other players.
Just look up how to use "catalog triggers" and you should be fine! I would explain it, but I'm sure someone else has already done a better job than I have.
Well basically you need a validator that counts each stack count of your particular stat you want to use. Then you would have to use switch effects to compare the validator (and put that switch effect in place of where your original effects were going to be) and make it use a particular damage/aoe/chance effect for each different level of stat you have. However, this still would not allow you to change the cost of an ability based on a stat.
Is that long enough? It might literally take you 80+ hours of work to pull off one heroes abilities, provided you have a max of like 50 in each stat- lol.
I would use the trigger method if you plan on having a lot of heroes, or a high stat max. But the trigger method (as someone mentioned before me) would change the ability/effect in every instance for that player. So you would have to make sure only one hero of one kind can be used by any single player.
Right, sorry. I forgot to mention that it is +2% of your CURRENT attack speed. So basically it's: 1.50 + 2% + 2%, etc. for each stack of the agility attribute.
Unfortunately from my experience there is no way to make it use a flat percentage that is based off of your BASE amount of attack speed, rather than your current amount of attack speed.
A workaround is to possibly use upgrades since they do base the increase of attack speed off the base amount.
FYI: The helicopter in the trailer is NOT based off of a Banshee, actually...if anything those helicopters were the inspiration to Banshee's. "Those helicopters", are called "Orca's" and they were in the VERY FIRST C&C game...way to rush to judgement.
On a non-stupid note, I too am skeptical that the game will be good, but I think OneTwo has the right idea- we should just support RTS games in general...beggars can't be choosers!
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@Mozared: Go
Mozared, that was brilliant- and beautiful. I second that explanation, it's the only reason I even decided to dignify this topic with a response. There is a lot of reasons: jealously, sick of hearing about him, hate the music, but I think most people just hate the corporate bs.
I myself have no ill will, or feeling at all. In fact- I just filed his folder in my brain as "IRRELEVANT", with a big red rubber stamp, and went on with my life.
0
Side Note: I've been searching the forums for an answer for quite a while. I see that to create an AI you would most likely use Triggers, but some have suggested that the data module is capable of it too- although I've not seen proof of this yet. However, while my question is related to that, my goal is somewhat more simple than that.
Question: How would someone expand on the melee AI? Is there a way to edit the default melee AI? Or, where is the AI located in the editor?
Example: If I add a new structure that is available to an SCV, how would I actually be able to change the default AI for it to recognize and build this new structure (at a reasonable point during melee gameplay)?
Comment: Right now it seems like I would have to actually recreate the whole AI from scratch, and that seems silly to do just for 1 or two extra units/structures. Additionally, I would be highly disappointed in the power of the editor if this were the case- PLEASE say it ain't so!
0
@zjat: Go
I'm glad you got it working, congrats!
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@zjat: Go
I'm glad you figure it out! I was certain that even with limited experience you would get the point. Onto answer your question: no it doesn't exactly work the way that one would expect. I'm pretty sure it actually take your base ms: say it's 3.00. Then it applies the behavior once to slow it by 0.80. If we multiply the two numbers we get: 2.4. THEN it applies the behavior again ON TOP of the new amount so it takes 2.4 and slows it by 0.80 which is 1.92- not the 1.80 that you should expect.
However, I figured that since you didn't know that much about the editor, you wouldn't care if it was exactly correct. There is a way to get it to work perfectly like you mentioned, but it gets a bit more complicated. Basically it would be what Nardival mentioned in his "neater version".
0
@zjat: Go
This is actually pretty simple. You just need an effect, validator, and a behavior. I'll explain this quickly, and assume that you have a basic understanding of the editor, just do as follows:
To start, create an "Apply Behavior" effect, just change the behavior to be set to a new buff that we will create. The behavior is going to slow MS by setting the movement fraction to 0.80. Then you make the maximum stack count to 5 with a periodic effect that apply's our behavior yet again, and set the period duration to be 0.8. Lastly make a validator that counts the number of behaviors on the unit, making sure that it is set to the our behavior being "less than 5". Next just set that validator to be in the "validator remove" field of the the behavior.
There you have it. Now whenever the buff is applied once to a unit, it will continuously reapply itself until it hits 5, at which point it will be removed. Since the unit is slowed more with each stack count, it will progressively get slower as well. Let me know if you have questions!
Looks like someone beat me to it, oh well, I'll post anyways.
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@Sharicasmi: Go
You might want to clarify what you mean about this "Lifesteal through data editor doesn't work.", as it does in fact work. It might not work WELL, but it does work. So I think you should explain what you mean by that.
I'm not trying to argue you, but I just want other people who read this to know exactly what you mean by that statement.
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@TheSkunk2: Go
5 Heroes and 18 Spells each...yeah I would definitely go with triggers. Especially, if that list will get larger later on in the development of the game, planning ahead is crucial. Besides, it will be much cleaner for you to work with, since you won't have a clutter of data.
No that's fine, each player can have one hero of EACH variety. That is because the game saves separate versions of each ability/spell and everything else for each player individually. So each player has their own instance of everything you created in the data module, which can be modified without affecting the data of other players.
Just look up how to use "catalog triggers" and you should be fine! I would explain it, but I'm sure someone else has already done a better job than I have.
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@TheSkunk2: Go
The long way?
Well basically you need a validator that counts each stack count of your particular stat you want to use. Then you would have to use switch effects to compare the validator (and put that switch effect in place of where your original effects were going to be) and make it use a particular damage/aoe/chance effect for each different level of stat you have. However, this still would not allow you to change the cost of an ability based on a stat.
Is that long enough? It might literally take you 80+ hours of work to pull off one heroes abilities, provided you have a max of like 50 in each stat- lol.
I would use the trigger method if you plan on having a lot of heroes, or a high stat max. But the trigger method (as someone mentioned before me) would change the ability/effect in every instance for that player. So you would have to make sure only one hero of one kind can be used by any single player.
Pick your poison!
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@KillerAmoebaswat: Go
Right, sorry. I forgot to mention that it is +2% of your CURRENT attack speed. So basically it's: 1.50 + 2% + 2%, etc. for each stack of the agility attribute.
Unfortunately from my experience there is no way to make it use a flat percentage that is based off of your BASE amount of attack speed, rather than your current amount of attack speed.
A workaround is to possibly use upgrades since they do base the increase of attack speed off the base amount.
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In short, no. Yes, it is lame...
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FYI: The helicopter in the trailer is NOT based off of a Banshee, actually...if anything those helicopters were the inspiration to Banshee's. "Those helicopters", are called "Orca's" and they were in the VERY FIRST C&C game...way to rush to judgement.
On a non-stupid note, I too am skeptical that the game will be good, but I think OneTwo has the right idea- we should just support RTS games in general...beggars can't be choosers!
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@KillerAmoebaswat: Go
Yes, in fact attack speed can (by default) ONLY be increased by a percentage. Just go to your agility stat and then:
Modification >> Combat >> Attack Speed Multiplier >> and change 1.00 to 1.02.