I see some problems: The system is very complicated so it will need a lot of code and it will be hard to teach players how to play.
Also you need a lot of content for it to be fun.
But if you are feeling up to it, this map could acutally be fun if you can pull it off. It's just that since it's a simulation it's very easy to push it to a complexity where players just plain don't understand it anymore.
That's more like the way of making suggestions. I found your tone in the last post offensive, I apologize if i misunderstood that.
OC S:E:R:S should actually show how many % it gives, but i realize that a stack number would be better. Sadly there is no way to show a behaviors stack count that i know of. I'll see what i can do.
Yes the difficulty is an issue. That's something that just needs a lot of testing. I am planning to make the survival more manageable.
As for someone not picking. I just wanted the players to start together. If I didn't do that, People would still have to wait for each other later. I think impatient people like that would also leave if they allready reached the time machine and everyone else hasn't even picked yet. I think starting together is part of playing as a team.
Maybe I will make players able to start earlier then the others and go on ahead, but I right now I don't find this to be the right approach. Maybe I will just add a countdown. So impatient people at least know that they don't need to wait longer than 30 seconds or so. In the end, leavers are just not avoidable.
I actually think it's REALY high time for Blizzard to realize that they should allow mappers to set their map up so that players can join after a game has allready started. I mean look at counterstrike, battlefield and these kinds of games. They wouldn't work as maps simply because we have this "only join at start" limitation.
They dissapear? First time I heard about that. When exactly do they dissapear? I can't really look into it if i have no point of reference as to when it happens.
Well the inventory had some limits, first of which is that i can't use right clicking for picking up and can't make a drag and drop system. Simply because the Editor doesn't support this sort of thing yet.
But I realize that it can be quite hard at times to keep the inventory clean. Especially with all the new items you recieve quite often.
That's something I am looking to improve in the future. One of the improvements will be custom items icons, unique for each item. So it will be quite a lot easier to discern different items. However I can't tell when I am going to introduce those.
Yes, only a portion of the skill points earned are saved. 10% to be exact.
EDIT:
1: You don't get stuck on the loading screen, it only appears to be the case due to b.net.
2: You don't get stuck on a black screen, you have to wait untill the other players are ready. It says that.
3: people who follow the tutorial properly, will not die in it.
4: I realize these flaws and i will improve them. This map just came out of beta state.
5: most importantly: I will not continue talking with you if you keep up this offensive attitude.
@Ryaneko: Go
Well the voice acting is quite an experimental thing. You can actually just turn on subtitles, but i will make the text still display in the next version if i can.
You actually can see what others picked. It is displayed when they pick. There is also the text command -teamlist that will show you all picks. But I will be adding a UI that shows each players status and Agent in the future.
As for the Skills:
A: they are not supposed to have a great impact, that would be against the design philosophy stated above.
B: Don't forget that they are saved. So the longer you played, the more impact they have.
If I play the warrior, I start with max level thoughness and level 2 stun, which is a BIG deal, believe me. And I atually played like ... 20 times maybe. Which is like 5 hours or so which is really not a lot by RPG standards.
I added a scaling system that will scale down difficulty if the game is started with fewer players than the maximum 5.
For each missing player, all enemies health and damage will be reduced by 10%.
Therefore when playing in solo mode, enemies will be at 60% of their normal strengh.
Since this is only a small edge, the game will still be easier with the full amount of players but it will be possible to get quite far alone or in smaller teams.
Also I seem to have fixed the lobby problem. It really was a field that I had set. The field used to do nothing apperently but since the last patch it makes the game start right away.
Top 3? are you serious? Well that's quite the compliment. Thank you. That will certainly keep me going :)
The Implosive shot ability has been introduced later than all others and is therefore probably subject to change. I'd like to keep it but i know it looks kinda strange. Mabe I'll find a different technique for it.
As for the lobby problem: You are the second one who told me that and I am really not sure how this is caused. I expect it's something that changed with some patch and now I need to change something in the lobby settings. Which are quite a pain in the ars right now. Blizzard said they would improve it, maybe it's a side effect of that. At any rate, I'll look into it.
Is the voice acting in yet or not? I am confused now. It sure is when i try the map online.
I just finished the voice acting and introduced it in the newest version. It is now accessible from here(see first post) or b.net EU.
Let me hear what you guys think of the voice acting. I spent quite some time on it but i think i made a decend job in the end.
Yes. As sad as that is, all experience proves it. I have my Tips anyway because I want to believe some people might read them, but what I usually whitness is that people will only read Ability descriptions at most.
Well I have been wondering about it myself. In the end what it comes down to, is that you need voice acting. I think it's as simple as that, people are not willing to read but if they hear it they will not miss it and might actually follow the story.
There is no voice acting right now and frankly, only the very basic aspects of the story are told yet. And the few people who played it yet, of course they didn't read any of that. In fact, they didn't even read the tramissions that were there to guide them, as a short tutorial. That was always the major flaw of the "public". The cummon mindset is "Ah it's just a funmap. I'll just go right ahead to the action." and then they die a minute later and don't know what happened because the overread all the 10 Warning signs that you gave them. It sometimes makes you believe people just can't read at all. It's really frustrating.
Be that as it may, I am planning to add voice acting. Actually I am in a theatre group and there are a few people with according skills who might help me out on it. What it comes down to is just how large the story is. I don't think that you can tell a hugh story with lots of different plot twists in a multiplayer map. However I think that if the story is "small" enough and you find a good rythmn of conveying it. You might actually succedd to tell it in a fashion that will not make people say "Just cut to the chase allready". What I mean by a "good rythmn" is that you shouldn't tell all the story at once, but cut it in small pieces. People will be bored with a 2 minute cinematic, but make it 10 cinematics of 30 seconds each, and people will most likel not be bored cause they got to play inbetween.
And yes: I realize that I have somewhat failed in doing exactly that with the current map. But story was my last concern of course, I first wanted the mechanics running. So nothing is set in stone yet. This is work in progress.
Hello everyone.
I'd like to present a map that I have been working on for quite a while now.
Here's the project Link: Chrono Agents
So what is this map? I usually just call it "Cooperative" but I realize that by now, it has a whole lot of RPG elements and might be called an RPG. Which I don't really approve of, for reasons I'll state later.
The Game:
Basically There are 5 players working together and each player controls one Character (refered to as "Agent"). Each Agent has his own unique abilities and role in the team. There are currently 6 Agents available to choose from:
The Agents:
Asssasin - A very agile and stealthy agent. Excells at taking out key enemies and then getting out alive. Probably most fun and most challenging.
Warrior - A meele fighter Agent. Excells at holding the line and keeping enemies stunned. He's also fairly agile and can pack a punch.
Stider - A very though robotic Agent with strong shields. Excells at surviving a lot of enemy attacks. Keeping the shields up is vital to this one.
Specialist - A high ranged sniper. Excells at taking out single enemies from high range. Fairly adept at gathering information as well.
Elder - The main caster agent. Excells at healing, empowering and reviving his allies. His offensive abilities are actually stronger then they seem to be.
Foreseer - Supportive caster Agent. Excells at providing energy and information to the team. Also very vital to keep the enemies under control.
The Objective:
This map's objective is to Travel back in time to return to a time when not all hope was lost yet. You have a Time Machine but it needs more power to iniate a far tavel like that. Therefore, you need to collect 7 Chrono Crystals to power it. After that you need to protect the time machine untill it teleports you to the past. (I'd like to stress at this point that this only the first map of a series. I can't promise anything but I was planning to release about 4 maps. Each map will have it's own Objectives and I will try to keep them diverse). The problem is that your home planet "Cyan" has been invaded by the "Bioroid", a race of Bio-Mechanical Hybrid creatures (currently they look like Zerg but plans for custom skins are in motion). You will need to fight them to gather the crystals you need to complete your objective.
The Enemies:
There are many unique kinds of Bioroid. Each of them has its unique abilities, strengths and weaknesses. In addition, all Bioroid have a Level from 1to 5. higher level Bioroid are stronger in any regard. Each of them must be confronted in its own fashion and sometimes it's hard to decide which enemies should be the primary target. Here is a short summary of each Bioroid enemy you might encounter:
Celloid - A simple meele Bioroid creature. These can actually deal a lot of damage in high numbers and at high levels.
Replicant - A short ranged Bioroid with a corrosive attack. Corrsion will only effect Mechanical targets. Upon death, Replicants will spawn 2 Celloids.
Seeker - A high Ranged Bioroid with a toxic attack. It's poison will only effect biological targets and can't be used in meele combat.
Acidoid - A suicidal Bioroid that will leap at you and burst. It can be avoided and even hurt it's own allies, so it can work heavily for or against you.
Breeder - a realy nasty Bioroid that spits tons of Celloids. These should really be top priority since they provide the Bioroid with a lot of reinforcements.
Composite - the largest Bioroid currently known. These can suddely rush forward and squash their foes. Engage with caution.
Summary:
So from the sound of it, this is an RPG map isn't it? Well the reason why I state it's not is because of my design philosophy on this one:
The Main design goals/guidlines of this map are:
Success or failure shall depend on how well the players perform e.g. how fast they act, how well they work togther etc.
Faming is a way to silightly boost your chances, not the only way to victory. Farming alone shall NEVER win you a game.
A good team shall be able to beat the map without farming at all.
There shall be a variaty of ways to beat the map and it shall be up to the players creativity to find them.
This map shall try to prove that multiplayer maps CAN actually have a story.
So if that sounds like something you might enjoy, try the map.
I'd like to stress that even though the map is locked, I am willing to share any knowlegde/techniques as long as I am ASKED. You'll find that I will respond to any questions as to how I did this or that. (even though I don't think there is anything that unique in this map yet).
ANY feedback is appritiated. Tell me if you like/hate it. Suggest me how to improve it. Tell me whether you agree with my design philosophy. Tell me whether I sticked to it properly thus far. Tell me what feature you would like to see or which feature was a mistake and should be removed.
Basically I'd like to hear from you guys and hope you enjoy this map.
@s3rius: Go
Thank you for saing that. To be honest I was about to pm you to ask you which mods were actually for it. I really did expect you to say "sorry i can't telly you that."
But now that I know and it turns out to be just as I thought, I have nothing to add.
Nothing you guys would want to hear anyway.
Well I figured there has been quite the discussion in the background but i really can't get my head around how you could end with that decision.
So far I have only seen 3 people here who want to keep this thread, and only 2 of them were mods if I recall right.
Considering the vast amount of people who are against it, it would seem to me that this decision means that the public opinion has been completely ignored at those meetings.
We're not here just to criticize, flame and spam we're trying to warn you (the people running this site) of a big mistake. And I think we had plenty of good arguments too.
The mods have already determined that it will stay up.
If this offends you.... go find a better source for SC2 editor information..... good luck
That's a great attitude. If you don't like it leave. Never try to change anything ...
If I didn't care about this site, I would have left at this point. But I, for one, am trying to convince the mods that they are taking the completely wrong direction here.
Why do you think that? Blizzard's allready annouced that the Blizzard custom maps will not be locked in the first place. Furthermore they encouraged us to upen up these maps for learning purposes. There is no way we could fake these maps anyway, not with the blizzard symbol still attached. I wonder what would happen if someone actually managed to find a way to fake the blizzard authification, there would be a major uproar i suppose.
Yes, but the bosses decided that the pros of keeping it outweight the cons, and that (although we'll not tolerate hacked maps) mapster should be a base for all kinds of knowledge.
I don't see the pros, seriously. As I stated in my last post, these pros aren't worth much.
Imagine you would run a Car Magazine, and one day you decided to publish an article on how to short circuit or otherwise steal cars. Your sustification for pulishing it would be "Sc2carster is a place where ALL information regarding cars should be made available in a neutral way". What would happen? You'd get into MAJOR trouble of course.
And now don't come with that arguement that it matters whether money is involved or not, because it doesn't. Or at least it shouldn't. It makes me sick that the term "mental property" does exists but law usually doesn't do a heck to protect what's not material.
In fact I think it's the people who can't tell right from wrong WITHOUT any law being involved who belong into prison. Having said that, I'll admit that i am taking this to far in the political direction so I will stop right here.
0
@BudSMoken: Go
Well it might be something people would enjoy.
I see some problems: The system is very complicated so it will need a lot of code and it will be hard to teach players how to play. Also you need a lot of content for it to be fun.
But if you are feeling up to it, this map could acutally be fun if you can pull it off. It's just that since it's a simulation it's very easy to push it to a complexity where players just plain don't understand it anymore.
0
@Ryaneko: Go
That's more like the way of making suggestions. I found your tone in the last post offensive, I apologize if i misunderstood that.
OC S:E:R:S should actually show how many % it gives, but i realize that a stack number would be better. Sadly there is no way to show a behaviors stack count that i know of. I'll see what i can do.
Yes the difficulty is an issue. That's something that just needs a lot of testing. I am planning to make the survival more manageable.
As for someone not picking. I just wanted the players to start together. If I didn't do that, People would still have to wait for each other later. I think impatient people like that would also leave if they allready reached the time machine and everyone else hasn't even picked yet. I think starting together is part of playing as a team.
Maybe I will make players able to start earlier then the others and go on ahead, but I right now I don't find this to be the right approach. Maybe I will just add a countdown. So impatient people at least know that they don't need to wait longer than 30 seconds or so. In the end, leavers are just not avoidable.
I actually think it's REALY high time for Blizzard to realize that they should allow mappers to set their map up so that players can join after a game has allready started. I mean look at counterstrike, battlefield and these kinds of games. They wouldn't work as maps simply because we have this "only join at start" limitation.
0
@Ryaneko: Go
They dissapear? First time I heard about that. When exactly do they dissapear? I can't really look into it if i have no point of reference as to when it happens.
Well the inventory had some limits, first of which is that i can't use right clicking for picking up and can't make a drag and drop system. Simply because the Editor doesn't support this sort of thing yet.
But I realize that it can be quite hard at times to keep the inventory clean. Especially with all the new items you recieve quite often.
That's something I am looking to improve in the future. One of the improvements will be custom items icons, unique for each item. So it will be quite a lot easier to discern different items. However I can't tell when I am going to introduce those.
Yes, only a portion of the skill points earned are saved. 10% to be exact.
EDIT: 1: You don't get stuck on the loading screen, it only appears to be the case due to b.net.
2: You don't get stuck on a black screen, you have to wait untill the other players are ready. It says that.
3: people who follow the tutorial properly, will not die in it.
4: I realize these flaws and i will improve them. This map just came out of beta state.
5: most importantly: I will not continue talking with you if you keep up this offensive attitude.
0
@Ryaneko: Go Well the voice acting is quite an experimental thing. You can actually just turn on subtitles, but i will make the text still display in the next version if i can.
You actually can see what others picked. It is displayed when they pick. There is also the text command -teamlist that will show you all picks. But I will be adding a UI that shows each players status and Agent in the future.
As for the Skills:
A: they are not supposed to have a great impact, that would be against the design philosophy stated above.
B: Don't forget that they are saved. So the longer you played, the more impact they have. If I play the warrior, I start with max level thoughness and level 2 stun, which is a BIG deal, believe me. And I atually played like ... 20 times maybe. Which is like 5 hours or so which is really not a lot by RPG standards.
0
Update!
I added a scaling system that will scale down difficulty if the game is started with fewer players than the maximum 5.
For each missing player, all enemies health and damage will be reduced by 10%. Therefore when playing in solo mode, enemies will be at 60% of their normal strengh.
Since this is only a small edge, the game will still be easier with the full amount of players but it will be possible to get quite far alone or in smaller teams.
Also I seem to have fixed the lobby problem. It really was a field that I had set. The field used to do nothing apperently but since the last patch it makes the game start right away.
0
Well thank you for the great feedback.
Top 3? are you serious? Well that's quite the compliment. Thank you. That will certainly keep me going :)
The Implosive shot ability has been introduced later than all others and is therefore probably subject to change. I'd like to keep it but i know it looks kinda strange. Mabe I'll find a different technique for it.
As for the lobby problem: You are the second one who told me that and I am really not sure how this is caused. I expect it's something that changed with some patch and now I need to change something in the lobby settings. Which are quite a pain in the ars right now. Blizzard said they would improve it, maybe it's a side effect of that. At any rate, I'll look into it.
Is the voice acting in yet or not? I am confused now. It sure is when i try the map online.
0
Update!
I just finished the voice acting and introduced it in the newest version. It is now accessible from here(see first post) or b.net EU. Let me hear what you guys think of the voice acting. I spent quite some time on it but i think i made a decend job in the end.
0
It's actually published on EU.
There is no way for me to publish it on any other server than my own, is there? The Entire system sure needs some serious rework by Blizzard... -.-
0
@Eiviyn: Go
Yes. As sad as that is, all experience proves it. I have my Tips anyway because I want to believe some people might read them, but what I usually whitness is that people will only read Ability descriptions at most.
0
@Obatztrara: Go
Well I have been wondering about it myself. In the end what it comes down to, is that you need voice acting. I think it's as simple as that, people are not willing to read but if they hear it they will not miss it and might actually follow the story.
There is no voice acting right now and frankly, only the very basic aspects of the story are told yet. And the few people who played it yet, of course they didn't read any of that. In fact, they didn't even read the tramissions that were there to guide them, as a short tutorial. That was always the major flaw of the "public". The cummon mindset is "Ah it's just a funmap. I'll just go right ahead to the action." and then they die a minute later and don't know what happened because the overread all the 10 Warning signs that you gave them. It sometimes makes you believe people just can't read at all. It's really frustrating.
Be that as it may, I am planning to add voice acting. Actually I am in a theatre group and there are a few people with according skills who might help me out on it. What it comes down to is just how large the story is. I don't think that you can tell a hugh story with lots of different plot twists in a multiplayer map. However I think that if the story is "small" enough and you find a good rythmn of conveying it. You might actually succedd to tell it in a fashion that will not make people say "Just cut to the chase allready". What I mean by a "good rythmn" is that you shouldn't tell all the story at once, but cut it in small pieces. People will be bored with a 2 minute cinematic, but make it 10 cinematics of 30 seconds each, and people will most likel not be bored cause they got to play inbetween.
And yes: I realize that I have somewhat failed in doing exactly that with the current map. But story was my last concern of course, I first wanted the mechanics running. So nothing is set in stone yet. This is work in progress.
0
Hello everyone. I'd like to present a map that I have been working on for quite a while now. Here's the project Link: Chrono Agents
So what is this map? I usually just call it "Cooperative" but I realize that by now, it has a whole lot of RPG elements and might be called an RPG. Which I don't really approve of, for reasons I'll state later.
The Game:
Basically There are 5 players working together and each player controls one Character (refered to as "Agent"). Each Agent has his own unique abilities and role in the team. There are currently 6 Agents available to choose from:
The Agents:
The Objective:
This map's objective is to Travel back in time to return to a time when not all hope was lost yet. You have a Time Machine but it needs more power to iniate a far tavel like that. Therefore, you need to collect 7 Chrono Crystals to power it. After that you need to protect the time machine untill it teleports you to the past. (I'd like to stress at this point that this only the first map of a series. I can't promise anything but I was planning to release about 4 maps. Each map will have it's own Objectives and I will try to keep them diverse). The problem is that your home planet "Cyan" has been invaded by the "Bioroid", a race of Bio-Mechanical Hybrid creatures (currently they look like Zerg but plans for custom skins are in motion). You will need to fight them to gather the crystals you need to complete your objective.
The Enemies:
There are many unique kinds of Bioroid. Each of them has its unique abilities, strengths and weaknesses. In addition, all Bioroid have a Level from 1to 5. higher level Bioroid are stronger in any regard. Each of them must be confronted in its own fashion and sometimes it's hard to decide which enemies should be the primary target. Here is a short summary of each Bioroid enemy you might encounter:
Summary:
So from the sound of it, this is an RPG map isn't it? Well the reason why I state it's not is because of my design philosophy on this one:
The Main design goals/guidlines of this map are:
So if that sounds like something you might enjoy, try the map.
I'd like to stress that even though the map is locked, I am willing to share any knowlegde/techniques as long as I am ASKED. You'll find that I will respond to any questions as to how I did this or that. (even though I don't think there is anything that unique in this map yet).
ANY feedback is appritiated. Tell me if you like/hate it. Suggest me how to improve it. Tell me whether you agree with my design philosophy. Tell me whether I sticked to it properly thus far. Tell me what feature you would like to see or which feature was a mistake and should be removed.
Basically I'd like to hear from you guys and hope you enjoy this map.
0
@s3rius: Go Thank you for saing that. To be honest I was about to pm you to ask you which mods were actually for it. I really did expect you to say "sorry i can't telly you that."
But now that I know and it turns out to be just as I thought, I have nothing to add. Nothing you guys would want to hear anyway.
0
@EternalWraith: Go
Well I figured there has been quite the discussion in the background but i really can't get my head around how you could end with that decision.
So far I have only seen 3 people here who want to keep this thread, and only 2 of them were mods if I recall right. Considering the vast amount of people who are against it, it would seem to me that this decision means that the public opinion has been completely ignored at those meetings.
We're not here just to criticize, flame and spam we're trying to warn you (the people running this site) of a big mistake. And I think we had plenty of good arguments too.
That's an even better attitude. "If you talk about the problem, it will get worse, so better shut up." Is this what you're saying?
0
That's a great attitude. If you don't like it leave. Never try to change anything ... If I didn't care about this site, I would have left at this point. But I, for one, am trying to convince the mods that they are taking the completely wrong direction here.
If you think that's futile, keep thinking so.
0
@barakatx2: Go
Why do you think that? Blizzard's allready annouced that the Blizzard custom maps will not be locked in the first place. Furthermore they encouraged us to upen up these maps for learning purposes. There is no way we could fake these maps anyway, not with the blizzard symbol still attached. I wonder what would happen if someone actually managed to find a way to fake the blizzard authification, there would be a major uproar i suppose.
I don't see the pros, seriously. As I stated in my last post, these pros aren't worth much.
Imagine you would run a Car Magazine, and one day you decided to publish an article on how to short circuit or otherwise steal cars. Your sustification for pulishing it would be "Sc2carster is a place where ALL information regarding cars should be made available in a neutral way". What would happen? You'd get into MAJOR trouble of course.
And now don't come with that arguement that it matters whether money is involved or not, because it doesn't. Or at least it shouldn't. It makes me sick that the term "mental property" does exists but law usually doesn't do a heck to protect what's not material.
In fact I think it's the people who can't tell right from wrong WITHOUT any law being involved who belong into prison. Having said that, I'll admit that i am taking this to far in the political direction so I will stop right here.