First of all, I do believe this belongs here in off topic as it is intended for debate. (Theres an idea Rodrigo) It doesn't really belong with data or galaxy, since it concerns both.
What I have attached to this thread is a spell coded entirely in Custom Script (not GUI), similar to how JASS spells were done back in WC3. It's open source so anyone can feel free to play with it if they like. But be warned, Its not well documented at this point and there will be bugs as it is still in its alpha stages, but its still usable. Constructive criticism on how this code can be improved is more than welcome. But I'm afraid I won't be able to recode this with Data since I suck really badly with it.
To use the spell, just cast any ability after opening the map. Use the basestarsprimative cheat to research faster.
It is inevitable that part of the spell will probably need to be done in Data, such as button creation. Data Editor Pros
More powerful and efficient than wc3 data editor Cons
Extremely steep learning curve as it seems to involve object oriented programming concepts
Can be very confusing to use if you don't understand how actors, behaviors etc connect with each other. Galaxy Pros
Easier to duplicate/modify existing spells, change spell constants since everything is localized
No need to click all over the place. Cons
Very technical, people without prior programming experience would feel intimidated
Relatively easy to learn once you understand the code structure
One could argue that D can create stuff G cannot, or G can create stuff that D cannot. The question is...
Is it worth it to sacrifice power/efficiency in exchange for ease of spell creation?
Is it worth the trouble to make more efficient spells in Data, but spend significantly more time on it?
PS: I have tried learning Data before, I didn't enjoy it. I don't think I can be convinced to start using it again unless its for custom behavior/effect creations. That I can apply through galaxy after.
Also, is there anyone experienced enough with the data editor who can recreate this spell with it? It would be nice if we could have a fair comparison with regards to ease of creation between the 2 methods. The specifications of the spell are as follows. The spell: Psi Barrage
Creates a ball of energy that travels in a line for X seconds. (Move actor by 2DH every 0.05 seconds)
The ball begins releasing psi storms every 0.25 seconds that get bigger and bigger as travel time gets longer after point of impact.
If there is no impact within X seconds, it just explodes.
At point of impact, travel time is reset to 0.25, the minimum interval between psi storm damage instances.
Every time the ball releases a psi storm that hits a group of units, it loses some travel momentum.
Each instance of psi storm damage applied deals its base damage (10) + 25 bonus from the spell. Its possible to make this level dependent as well, but it doesn't seem good for balance. Additional information
X = 1 + 0.5xLevel
The AOE/Scale of the psi storm is dependent on its travel time.
Since this is my first attempt at a custom script spell, it took about a day. But now that theres a template, it should be pretty easy to design more in future.
In my opinion, the efficiency loss from not using Data is worth it, but this is of course a biased opinion.
I disagree, the Data Editor is far more powerful than any of you may imagine. Once familiar, it is more flexible and more stable than galaxy. I am working on a project to bring my ideas for three new races to life completely within the confines of the data editor.
Completely.
This means I have to learn the Data Editor, learn it as if it were my child, or the back of my hand. I disagree that it is an efficiency loss. Data is how Blizzard built their melee. A gem one might say. Everything was done in Data, nothing was preprogrammed, it was done from scratch. Every time I open the data editor, I find exciting things, ideas, concepts. The Data is what scares people away, but bigger is sometimes better, and that's the Data editor. The Data Editor is amazing, and I don't understand why you can't see that, its a scary thing, but it can be powerful, but its not one or the other. Data combined with triggers is more powerful than anything either could do alone. Its a scary thing, but the kind of quality that could be maintained with triggers AND data is quite complex. You'll see in a few years(granted the community lasts that long), and it will be quite scary, I myself intend to pave the road, I hope you'll come with me.
And who the hell said I am participating on that? It seems that any thread about the popularity system, I am accused! I didn't even know about that one. Why are you calling me retarded if I'm not taking part in this attempt?
Have you heard of freedom of speech? Would you ban me because I opened a thread alerting people that you are locking everyone's thread? If you don't like, just don't bother posting on it.
Who is not noticing patterns here is you. First, my posts ARE NOT routtinely locked. Second, things don't happen to most people? The 5 threads Gorandor locked was FROM OTHER PEOPLE, NOT ME.
I came here to warn other people that threads are getting locked, and they accuse me thinking that I was the one who opened the threads.
No, no thread was locked because of me, so stop blaming me.
I have to agree with Rodrigo here, and also disagree with Rodrigo here. Me, Karawasa, and Rodrigo all started the first pinwheel and while I can see how you thought I was targeting those three again, I was hoping ANOTHER spamfest with a LARGER group would sorta work differently...the....second...time...ya I know, bad idea, stupid idea, whatever you wanna call it, it might be my fault we have this lame system in the first place because i came up with the original spamfest which set off the first pinwheel don't kill me.
Anyway, I was hoping for the second pinwheel but I guess it would really be more like the second pinwheel
Anyway, point being, Karawasa bumped it for great justice, and Rodrigo didn't partake, so basically, Rodrigo is the odd one out, and I am at fault, alone. I'm sorry mr moderator sir, please don't ban me! (I rest my case)
It has been far too long my friends. We need some sort of change, some sort of hope. Last time me, Karawasa, and Rodrigo played this game, something happened. However, blizzard has stopped monitoring many of their forums. They have stopped caring. We have to get up in their face and hit them where it hurts. I'm going to make a statement on the forums, and I want some help spamming it across the board to get Blizzard's attention, there is NO WAY, we're going to win this war sitting passively back. You want something to happen? STOP BEING PASSIVE.
I started modding/editing when I was like 12.Warcraft 1 , Duke nukem 1(ascii symbol editor ftw:/) , Doom, then later on Tib Sun, RA 2 etc etc.
Bottom line is I started at a very early age. I definitely think all that experience and exposure helps you later on. You become more confident in modding, have more insight and creativity is generally improved.
While younger modders in Sc2 will naturally lack some experience. I dont think they are necessarily at a disadvantage at grasping and mastering certain aspects of the editor. That being Triggers, Data, and perhaps even terrain.
Ultimately, I think they can still be good map makers, just like the slightly older age group.... and also the very much older age group 50+(Gorandor, talking about you here)
Glhf
Huh, Gorandor is 50 years? Reminds of Wolverabid, the 40 year old hive mod, who left hive in disgust because of other mod's actions... Ah but nevermind that now, that was years ago. The point of me making this thread was to embellish that modding is for all ages. I'm sure someone could make a "older mapmakers unit" thread(if they wanted to anyway). Anyway, keep giving us ages, we want to see the range ;D
the 7.7 gold from sc1 was funa cause it was fun to be realistic. the olympion allience wtf is wrong wit u? i was happy with the greek bc and the russion ghosts . cmon man keep it identical to that one to start then make alternate versions mlets get a map live. if you guyz need thoughts and help pm me
You guys are taking the "diplo" genre to be the diplo map, hasn't anyone ever played Azeroth Wars?
Azeroth Wars is the newest example of a "diplo" map. The diplo means a grandiose war that takes place in a themed setting. There are many names for this genre, some call it, generally, altered melee. I don't know what you call it, but i think it should be titled "diplo" in honor of the popularizer of the series.
Laertessc2: Hi SC2Mapster!
SC2Mapster: Hi, Laertes!
Laertes: You may also call me UloseTheGame!
SC2Mapster:Okay, "UloseTheGame"
UloseTheGame: Well, I'm here to call all mapmakers under 18 to this round table.
Most mapmakers are older than 18, or are at least 20 for a good majority. But some of us can handle the trigger, data, and terrain editor in sc1, and are even GOOD at it! How's that for wierd?
SC2Mapster: You must be kidding! Kids can't mod!
UloseTheGame: Oh? I do very well on the sc2 editor, and i'm just 15! Yes, 15!
SC2Mapster: You must be the youngest mapmaker out there!
UloseTheGame: Don't generalize mapster, I may be young, but I think there may even be younger mapmakers, and they may be even more successful than ME!
SC2Mapster: BS!
UloseTheGame: Nay, I'm calling out to all mapmakers under 18 to post in this thread! Show us that you are a good mapmaker, and can use the SC editor with the best of them!
Don't forget, you can post here even if you're NOT under 18, but be respectful, the internet is ageless!
sc1 was the simplest map creating ever! i was able to do it in my teens! SC2, there are many more options you cna do to make your game better. I would suggest looking have video's on youtube from OneTwoSC. The one i chose was advanced tower defense. Great tutorial, he explains everything! He has a ton of videos, like 72 or something, of all tutorials! It's great!
You completely miss the point of his comment, Laertes. Go and count up all the popularity-system threads that Rodrigo started or hijacked and give us a number, then you'll understand.
Maybe I attacked it wrong Rev, but the point is, everyone picks on Rodrigo, and even if its warranted, its so mean. I know I wouldn't want to be picked on like that, by Vex and Soul and all the others. It just seems very rude and malicious, and I hate people who do it. Again, maybe I shouldn't have attacked his person the way I did, but too many people are pissed at Rodrigo, perhaps out of jealousy, perhaps out of annoyance, and there's no reason to be...stupid...
the way i see it is like this, its really easy to pass judgement on stuff you simply do not understand what your talking about, If map makers see some of the first page maps as easy mode, Then go ahead and create them.
Im pretty sure guys such as yourself, would watch my map and be like, This map is EZ mode. Well guess what, Everybody complains about the data editor taking heaps amount of time, Zealot frenzy for instance doesnt take much triggers, HArdly any as a matter of fact, bascailly all u you need is some win /loose /set team triggers and your done, but for the data editor work? think again, this map requires SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTLOADSSSSSSSSS of data editor work. The stuff that makes map makers here tear their hair out it takes so long.
But guess what, Triggers alone dont define how much EFFORT it takes to making any of the so called "ez mode" maps.
If you look at the common theme of all the first page maps, they are all Extremely heavy in data editor work .
I see guys like rodriguo put togeter maps in just a mere 2-3 months , and claim them to be Great amazing deserving maps that clearly wont be in his biased poll of "average maps"
If anybody here took the slightest amount of effort to see what it takes to create such a map as mine, you will Scream in tears at the amount of work. I started ZF since BETA, and i have the youtube video post date to prove it : date posted june 13th
7 months of HARD work , and im still making it up to this day, When maps like Nexas word wars or debates are basically "DONE", Completed, nothing substantial to be added again.
If you look, every map at first page, is a continous never stopping work in delevopement, all the players know that new versions will just keep being pumped out that change the games themselfs drastically and keep things fresh. (and by drastically i mean additions of new Heroes, or new items, or new tech choices, or units or whatever, theres no limit to how much features you can add is the point im making)
So please, before saying certain maps are Ez mode, Actually play them first and try to understand how much effort it actually takes. Ive spent many a day bascially from as i wake up to as i go to sleep mapping ZF, to then hear douchebags like rodrigue just dismiss maps as "average" or "aweful" in a very public poll when rodriguo has nothing to show for it .
You go try making ZF ,
-create 3 custom spells that level up to "6" YES 6 levels in this god forsaken editor, with 3 levels of ultimates also, and have 20+ heroes in the game with all unique abilties following this rule per hero., and make numerous mercs with specially made custom abilties , Go make 50+ upgrades for your units Each indivdually, and 40+ items that arent all just "stat buffers" , then make 5 tiers with 5 units each, and make a unique racial upgrade for each teched unit with its own requirements,
Do level skip requirements for each hero at level 1/4/7/10/13/16 for standard abilties, and 6/11/16 for ultimates and then come back to me and tell me thats an "ez" map to make..
Some guys here ( not all) simply have no clue what it takes.
Your map does not add anything new to the table, it does not expand on frenzy, it is just like footman frenzy, with zealots. I will omit SOTIS, it is not the map which is bad, it is the community. Star Battle was a new idea, I like it, cause it blends competition with the ability to pay a lot of games with a lot of variation. Zealot Frenzy brings nothing to the table, while "Rodriguo's" map brings a whole new concept, and its an incredibly interesting one, I'm glad its on the list. Then, there's maps like Desert Strike, Nexus Wars, mindless games that drew people in for some reason. These maps suck, and they do not admit it. I do not understand these maps, I don't care if you made a spawner in the data editor, I don't care that you made everything in the data editor, I am a data editor myself and I have to say, it can't be more difficult than creating three whole new races from scratch. I'll say that outright. But, in the end, you must understand that the Customs list is flawed, and, speaking generally , to not want it changed is selfish to the mapmaking community as a whole. Personally to you, I hope you want the popularity list changed as well, because if you don't you have nothing to say here.
RodrigoAlves hasn't posted yet... but my answer will be the opposite of his...
I feel like you could use a good slap right about now, the thing about you is that you have a superiority complex, you seem to think you're better than everyone else. The thing about it though is that you are nothing in the mapmaking community, you haven't made anything notable or memorable, while Rodrigo made debates and nww, that automatically boosts his status higher than yours. You dont have to agree with everyone, but you act so high and mighty when your maps are horrible, and your personality is junk.
I hope you don't say 'i was kidding' that's a bad thing to "kid" about.
I would like to dispute the graph on grounds of subjectivity; I think SotIS is extremely good (and it's on the first page), as well as Desert Strike (and possibly Bunker Wars). :)
Of course, but their general polish and gameplay aren't bad, its their lack of originality, game-play simplicity, and ease of making(imagine a gold division player in tournaments and versing high level players(master league) and succeeding, you'll understand why many mapmakers dislike these maps.) Most mapmakers view these maps as EZ-mode, and feel that their harder work should be given a chance, yet it is not. Now the reason a lot of the maps on the front page are on the front page is their competitiveness. I wish this wasn't true, but the fact that a majority of the community is a group of very competitive kids and young adults means that maps do not get their fair share when lacking "competition".
Finally, the mapmakers hate the maps on the front page for this very reason. Mapmakers are not competitive, some are very smart, but many are not competitive. They do better in games that don't require natural ethletic (yes I meant ethletic) ability. These "ethletes" are very picky about the maps they like, and currently, these are the maps on the front page. Now, the creator of Zealot Frenzy got very defensive earlier, because his map was on the front page. To be frank, I have played all the maps on the front page, and many of them have polish or lack originality, or lack polish and have competition. But to be frank, they all are mostly tug, aos, or mass games, and they do not deviate. However much physical work was put into them, MINIMAL thought was put into them. I put a lot of thought into my maps, I know rodrigo puts thought into his, and I know a lot of mappers think for HOURS to come up with the kind of maps they make. YES, I said HOURS, we are hard thinkers, and when a mapmaker with minimal skill and minimal thought makes a map that isn't amazing but "mediocre" so to speak, and it becomes part of the front page where other maps are more deserving. That just speaks how one sided the community is. They want very few things from customs, and those that want more, they've created niches in lotr, smashcraft, and debates.
This is where I stop, I feel very passionate about this issue, and I think we have to be more vocal. We should take the chance, and I think we should all submit customer service forms stating explicitly to change the format of the customs map system to how it was when it was bugged. And we should send one form each every two weeks, to keep reminding blizzard, please join me, for we are all injured. We need to scream it everywhere, chat channels, forums, everywhere. Its one for all and all for one here, and its time we went on the mapmaking crusade.
0
I disagree, the Data Editor is far more powerful than any of you may imagine. Once familiar, it is more flexible and more stable than galaxy. I am working on a project to bring my ideas for three new races to life completely within the confines of the data editor.
Completely.
This means I have to learn the Data Editor, learn it as if it were my child, or the back of my hand. I disagree that it is an efficiency loss. Data is how Blizzard built their melee. A gem one might say. Everything was done in Data, nothing was preprogrammed, it was done from scratch. Every time I open the data editor, I find exciting things, ideas, concepts. The Data is what scares people away, but bigger is sometimes better, and that's the Data editor. The Data Editor is amazing, and I don't understand why you can't see that, its a scary thing, but it can be powerful, but its not one or the other. Data combined with triggers is more powerful than anything either could do alone. Its a scary thing, but the kind of quality that could be maintained with triggers AND data is quite complex. You'll see in a few years(granted the community lasts that long), and it will be quite scary, I myself intend to pave the road, I hope you'll come with me.
0
Purple
0
@yukaboy: Go
Where is I?
0
I have to agree with Rodrigo here, and also disagree with Rodrigo here. Me, Karawasa, and Rodrigo all started the first pinwheel and while I can see how you thought I was targeting those three again, I was hoping ANOTHER spamfest with a LARGER group would sorta work differently...the....second...time...ya I know, bad idea, stupid idea, whatever you wanna call it, it might be my fault we have this lame system in the first place because i came up with the original spamfest which set off the first pinwheel don't kill me.
Anyway, I was hoping for the second pinwheel but I guess it would really be more like the second pinwheel Anyway, point being, Karawasa bumped it for great justice, and Rodrigo didn't partake, so basically, Rodrigo is the odd one out, and I am at fault, alone. I'm sorry mr moderator sir, please don't ban me! (I rest my case)
0
It has been far too long my friends. We need some sort of change, some sort of hope. Last time me, Karawasa, and Rodrigo played this game, something happened. However, blizzard has stopped monitoring many of their forums. They have stopped caring. We have to get up in their face and hit them where it hurts. I'm going to make a statement on the forums, and I want some help spamming it across the board to get Blizzard's attention, there is NO WAY, we're going to win this war sitting passively back. You want something to happen? STOP BEING PASSIVE.
Link will be posted here.
0
probably fraps, that might be best.
0
Huh, Gorandor is 50 years? Reminds of Wolverabid, the 40 year old hive mod, who left hive in disgust because of other mod's actions... Ah but nevermind that now, that was years ago. The point of me making this thread was to embellish that modding is for all ages. I'm sure someone could make a "older mapmakers unit" thread(if they wanted to anyway). Anyway, keep giving us ages, we want to see the range ;D
0
Quote from excloud2010: @queengambit
the 7.7 gold from sc1 was funa cause it was fun to be realistic. the olympion allience wtf is wrong wit u? i was happy with the greek bc and the russion ghosts . cmon man keep it identical to that one to start then make alternate versions mlets get a map live. if you guyz need thoughts and help pm me
You guys are taking the "diplo" genre to be the diplo map, hasn't anyone ever played Azeroth Wars?
Azeroth Wars is the newest example of a "diplo" map. The diplo means a grandiose war that takes place in a themed setting. There are many names for this genre, some call it, generally, altered melee. I don't know what you call it, but i think it should be titled "diplo" in honor of the popularizer of the series.
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Laertessc2: Hi SC2Mapster!
SC2Mapster: Hi, Laertes!
Laertes: You may also call me UloseTheGame!
SC2Mapster:Okay, "UloseTheGame"
UloseTheGame: Well, I'm here to call all mapmakers under 18 to this round table.
Most mapmakers are older than 18, or are at least 20 for a good majority. But some of us can handle the trigger, data, and terrain editor in sc1, and are even GOOD at it! How's that for wierd?
SC2Mapster: You must be kidding! Kids can't mod!
UloseTheGame: Oh? I do very well on the sc2 editor, and i'm just 15! Yes, 15!
SC2Mapster: You must be the youngest mapmaker out there!
UloseTheGame: Don't generalize mapster, I may be young, but I think there may even be younger mapmakers, and they may be even more successful than ME!
SC2Mapster: BS!
UloseTheGame: Nay, I'm calling out to all mapmakers under 18 to post in this thread! Show us that you are a good mapmaker, and can use the SC editor with the best of them!
Don't forget, you can post here even if you're NOT under 18, but be respectful, the internet is ageless!
0
Its not hard to do sc2 in your teens...
0
Maybe I attacked it wrong Rev, but the point is, everyone picks on Rodrigo, and even if its warranted, its so mean. I know I wouldn't want to be picked on like that, by Vex and Soul and all the others. It just seems very rude and malicious, and I hate people who do it. Again, maybe I shouldn't have attacked his person the way I did, but too many people are pissed at Rodrigo, perhaps out of jealousy, perhaps out of annoyance, and there's no reason to be...stupid...
0
Your map does not add anything new to the table, it does not expand on frenzy, it is just like footman frenzy, with zealots. I will omit SOTIS, it is not the map which is bad, it is the community. Star Battle was a new idea, I like it, cause it blends competition with the ability to pay a lot of games with a lot of variation. Zealot Frenzy brings nothing to the table, while "Rodriguo's" map brings a whole new concept, and its an incredibly interesting one, I'm glad its on the list. Then, there's maps like Desert Strike, Nexus Wars, mindless games that drew people in for some reason. These maps suck, and they do not admit it. I do not understand these maps, I don't care if you made a spawner in the data editor, I don't care that you made everything in the data editor, I am a data editor myself and I have to say, it can't be more difficult than creating three whole new races from scratch. I'll say that outright. But, in the end, you must understand that the Customs list is flawed, and, speaking generally , to not want it changed is selfish to the mapmaking community as a whole. Personally to you, I hope you want the popularity list changed as well, because if you don't you have nothing to say here.
0
@DoctorM: Go
perhaps ^_^
0
I feel like you could use a good slap right about now, the thing about you is that you have a superiority complex, you seem to think you're better than everyone else. The thing about it though is that you are nothing in the mapmaking community, you haven't made anything notable or memorable, while Rodrigo made debates and nww, that automatically boosts his status higher than yours. You dont have to agree with everyone, but you act so high and mighty when your maps are horrible, and your personality is junk.
I hope you don't say 'i was kidding' that's a bad thing to "kid" about.
0
Of course, but their general polish and gameplay aren't bad, its their lack of originality, game-play simplicity, and ease of making(imagine a gold division player in tournaments and versing high level players(master league) and succeeding, you'll understand why many mapmakers dislike these maps.) Most mapmakers view these maps as EZ-mode, and feel that their harder work should be given a chance, yet it is not. Now the reason a lot of the maps on the front page are on the front page is their competitiveness. I wish this wasn't true, but the fact that a majority of the community is a group of very competitive kids and young adults means that maps do not get their fair share when lacking "competition".
Finally, the mapmakers hate the maps on the front page for this very reason. Mapmakers are not competitive, some are very smart, but many are not competitive. They do better in games that don't require natural ethletic (yes I meant ethletic) ability. These "ethletes" are very picky about the maps they like, and currently, these are the maps on the front page. Now, the creator of Zealot Frenzy got very defensive earlier, because his map was on the front page. To be frank, I have played all the maps on the front page, and many of them have polish or lack originality, or lack polish and have competition. But to be frank, they all are mostly tug, aos, or mass games, and they do not deviate. However much physical work was put into them, MINIMAL thought was put into them. I put a lot of thought into my maps, I know rodrigo puts thought into his, and I know a lot of mappers think for HOURS to come up with the kind of maps they make. YES, I said HOURS, we are hard thinkers, and when a mapmaker with minimal skill and minimal thought makes a map that isn't amazing but "mediocre" so to speak, and it becomes part of the front page where other maps are more deserving. That just speaks how one sided the community is. They want very few things from customs, and those that want more, they've created niches in lotr, smashcraft, and debates.
This is where I stop, I feel very passionate about this issue, and I think we have to be more vocal. We should take the chance, and I think we should all submit customer service forms stating explicitly to change the format of the customs map system to how it was when it was bugged. And we should send one form each every two weeks, to keep reminding blizzard, please join me, for we are all injured. We need to scream it everywhere, chat channels, forums, everywhere. Its one for all and all for one here, and its time we went on the mapmaking crusade.