Always save after everything you do, if you are importing quite a lot of data you should be importing it into a blank mod file anyways, that holds nothing but imported files.
Real Time is Real World Time ... 1 second in game = 1 second in real life.
Game Time is a variable amount that changes depending on game speed. 90% of games you play are on the Faster setting, and that should be the default for all Sc2 Maps, otherwise it is awefully slow. From memory 1 second real time = 1.33 seconds of game time on Faster setting, so a 30 minute game in Starcraft (Faster) is actually 40 minutes in the replay file, or 40 minutes on Normal speed.
Key responses have notihng to do with time because they have no delay, ie, they will be processed the next game loop which is 32 times a second, however, key responses must be sent from your computer to bnet and back again, so for someone like me in Australia, it is half a second to bnet, half a second back = 1 second delay time when using key responses. This is simply the laws of physics, moving at nearly the speed of light through a dozen routers.
Where as "data" is local, it is based on your computer. The commands you issue are locally shown and sent to the server at the same time = no delay. Hence the need for a Data system for WASD movement, because it would be locally based = no delay.
We have uploaded two more videos, which are showcases of the heroes in the game. I know Dryeyce has done the audio for another 4 heroes, but I just lost an external harddrive with all my photoshop files on it, for all of Tofu. And whilst I do not technically need those photoshop files for the game anymore, as the UI work is done, I no longer have the files required to make the movies, so until I get some time to redo them, or to at least capture the frames from previous videos + put a raid in this comp, the videos will have to wait, cause with only 4gb free on the SSD, there is no way in hell I can capture video.
As stated numerous times, I always understood what community we are showcasing this map to. Obviously, if we marketted it hard to the general Battle.net population, they would be more impressed by eye candy than by technical features. It is really wise for me to list things out, like my engine is plug and play, extremely modular, etc ... to impress fellow scripters? No, because at the end of the day that is all invisible to the general community.
You have by far the best reputation as a Data editor, which by no doubt you are well aware of and is deserved. But I have yet to see anything totally amazing from you, in terms of a finished project. Does anyone care that Icefrog stole/copied/borrowed ideas from Tofu in 2004 whilst he was a beta tester? Or that my skills were greater than his and Guinsoo's at the time? No ... because put simply I never released a finished project. Having these amazing and revolutionary maps are all good and well, but if they are not in the popular map pool, say first five pages, then you have failed, as I did. I cannot wait for you to release something and utterly blow my mind, and I mean that with the utmost respect. Ie, AoS II if it is ever completed -_-.
The video was merely a teaser full of eye candy, a chaotic blend of flashy animation to simply get people to talk about the project, and in that regards we have most certainly succeeded. You guys want technical videos, which we want to do, but there is very little point doing them now if they are subject to change in the future before release. We have probably a few weeks left before full release, I am not talking about beta, which at that time, if we were up to scratch and there are a few bugs if any to fix, we will have time to do all the videos, which at that stage will not be needed as badly, as you can hop in the game and experience it for yourself.
For most fine detail work I use transparent 32bit TGA files, yes they are a bit bigger, but I can clearly see the quality difference on my 27" screen. For huge files, say loading screens, background images etc, its better to use dds. I use Photoshop for creating images, then GIMP for saving them as .dds ... stupid Nvidia for not supporting Win7 64bit.
The way Dry and I are doing it for Tofu TMA is we are using mods.
Map
. . Data Mod
. . . . Asset Mod
. . . . UI Asset Mod
And you should be using [ Records ]. Naughty naughty naughty. The reasons we are using 3 mods is that "balance" changes only require the download if a very tiny 500kb mod file, where as when adding new heroes, it requires the download of say a 1mb, asset file, where as the UI asset file will ve very rarely updated holds about 8-10mb of stuff.
There should be 1 function on your map called something like "Local Variables" (name doesnt matter), in which every single doodad, point, etc, anything map specific should be defined by variables! That way you can copy your whole engine over and you will only need to update 1 function and it won't break everything.
Or in the case of bug fixes, you delete and copy everything except for that one function and it will work fine (obviously don't delete the records).
I have never used triggers as part of a mod file, it is something I might look into in the future, but yes, what you said is exactly what I have done. You have basically a single variable to tell your engine which map it is and the engine will change to suit it.
Network traffic in itself is not a problem, the problem arises with delay, the physical distance between you and b.net, thus using "Player presses key A" will cause delay, because it has to be sent to Bnet and back to show the result on the local computer. Blizzard show allow the creation of local triggers, especially for using hotkeys and 'showing/hiding' dialogs, because it is not interfering with the game itself, not changing anything server side. That is common sense for me.
Pressing a dialog button or a hotkey locally shows up automatically, however because I am in Australia it is about a 1 second wait back to Battle.net.
Real time should always be used for everything in scripting ... now that the data editor is so powerful, unlike Wc3. You should set your game to run "Faster" anyways by default ...
The 50MB mod file I presume without looking at it is the graphics, the sounds, the models, etc.
There is a reason people do not add many new models to the game ... You could try and "delete" things from the import part of the mod file, things you don't need, but you will need to publish the mod in order to utilize your changes.
Chances are it got corrupted and the backup is the best you can do ... put it into perspective, think about how much time you are wasting trying to solve the problem to how much time it would take you to do the work again ... I know it sucks but it is better to cut your losses early. I had Tofu error on me a few times and lost a days worth of work, its not fun, better to have autoback up every 15 mins or so. When it did that I would simply get the last backup and start coding again, because I had already done it, I was faster than the first time. Better than wasting time for something you can't fix simply IMO.
Icetroll Tribes is a game that I made before the version now that is popular was popular? Ugh, Kyx's version from memory? Long before the Island Maps/Jungle Maps etc ... I am not trying to take any credit or anything - I never released the map, but I love Kyx's classic Ice Trolls compared to any other survivor map.
It was stupidily advanced for the time, polished etc ... the screenshot above was an old jpg I found on the other computer that I uploaded about 8 months ago. You could literally click on your "build" or "construct" abilties, it would load that commandcard which you could then select a building, see the placeholder, place it on the ground, and it would use your resources (items), say you had 3 slate, picked up 4 but could only carry 5, you would carry 5 slate + 2 slate, if you wanted to use 6 slate to build something you would then be left with 1 slate. If you didn't have the resources you couldn't build it. It is simple now, but at the time it was unheard of.
Not only that you would freeze faster in water, you could mine gold, dig tunnels, etc, it was amazing. But alas like every other thing I ever did in Wc3 I didn't release it. I have hundreds of maps I didn't release, so sad. You could create a "Tribe Totem Pole" and other players could join your "Tribe" by clicking on the totem pole, you could name your tribe, leave other tribes etc etc. There would be bonuses for being in a tribe, you could capture wild animals as pets etc.
I wanted so badly to bring Ice Trolls to Sc2, or something similar, but I made the choice to do Tofu / TMA first. I told many people that after TMA was released I wanted to make a survivor map - so your map better be damn pro mate. Or I am going to come for you like I am going to go for Phantom Mode :D
@Maknyuzz: Go
League of Legends has huge penalties for dying that cause the game to snowball ridiculously fast. I personally don't like spending 15-45 minutes in a game I know I'm going to lose. (I've played about 450 matches so this comes from personal experience) Although once in a while you find a great back and forth, but its about 1 out of 10 games in my experience.
It is the same as Starcraft II Melee, every little minute action in the beginning of the game snowballs towards the late game. Choosing to make 1 pair of Lings compared to 1 Drone at the start can cost you a game at the very highest level. This is why it is addictive, but if a game is say 2-10 in the first 10 minutes, then you can kindly leave.
It is something that I and Dryeyece have discussed extensively for Tofu, and the way we are implementing the mechanics of the game, for respawning, loot, etc, we are moving away from the Dota/Hon/LoL system of a huge snowballing effect, and are going to try a different way of handling respawn and bonuses. Will it work? Meh, who knows. A lot of people like the snowballing effect when they are behind it, building the snowball, you put the same people in front of it and they are the leaving noob fucks.
After 8 years of playing Dota, I still have my off games and get called a noob, and I am like lolwut? At one time I was at the very pinnicle of Dota in AU, but I am only as good as my team is, do I feed? Maybe one or two out of a hundred games, but that is usually down to a bad hero lineup, or someone stuffing me up early game, ie - denying every single creep, and not letting me get any exp. A week ago I went against a host, he was ranged I was melee, he denied every single creep until I was level 3 against his level 6, I said GG, and he said yeah it is pretty messed up and we remade the game.
People never care to remember the times you carry everyone, the times where it was your pro decision making that won the game, but they will remember if you feed once. In the end, the team needs a leader. In Dota the best Chinese teams have a leader and the rest follow, you need someone to make decisions, if everyone is doing their own thing then you arn't going to get anywhere, because it is a team game.
@Maknyuzz: Go
Suggestions:
Skills - More skill choices with limited slots (Ex. 8 abilities on a champ, but only 4 can be used)
Upgrade - Instead of creeps upgrading over time, they could have player bought upgrades that increase their dmg, atk spd, hp, and arm.
Rating System - System to decrease player rating when leaving before a match is over.
Too many abilities ... there use to exist in the early days, IE - 2003/2004, a Create your Own Dota. Where you could choose from numerous skills, the hero, etc. And it was fun, it was awesome, but it didn't live for long. If it got to the stage where Dota is, there would only be one single hero, with one single lineup of abilities, if you didn't get that then GTFOFKENNOOBCAKE, <insert.small.epenor.rage.here>. I cannot stand the chinese kids who think they are pro in Dota and tell me I buy a wrong item for a hero. It is like ... wtf get fked asshole ... and I go on to pwn. People have become so obsessed over numbers, the fact that there exists a "Chinese Cookie Cutter Template" for every hero, and it you don't do that you're noob, is completely and utterly stupid. There are of course some items that are better on others, but it comes down to your skill level and the way you play.
I personally have no issue running into their fountain to get the kill and dying myself, because I am a dick like that. People are like wtf ... but, when I do make it to the fountain, get the kill, and get out of their base alive, people are speechless because they never see that gameplay before. Having moulded hero designs, tutorials etc, stiffle innovation. The same with the pro Sc2 circuit, the best players are the ones who adapt and wing it, the ones who think outside the box, and try new things. If it doesn't work, alright you know for next time.
Bought upgrades existed in most other AoS maps other than Dota - remember, the secret to Dota is people are selfish assholes (TM). In Dota, you don't care about anything other than your hero, you don't ugprade creeps etc. All these ideas have been done before and Dota came out on top. Feel free to add them to an AoS, but as I said, it had been done before, it had a small following, but the masses are assholes, and they play Dota.
Rating system is obvious and should be implemented in any map, but it is subject to a huge amount of abuse, a huge amount of abuse.
Say you completely own the other team, they rate you down because of that ... go figure.
0
Import, save, import, save, delete, save, delete, save.
Always save after everything you do, if you are importing quite a lot of data you should be importing it into a blank mod file anyways, that holds nothing but imported files.
0
Real Time is Real World Time ... 1 second in game = 1 second in real life.
Game Time is a variable amount that changes depending on game speed. 90% of games you play are on the Faster setting, and that should be the default for all Sc2 Maps, otherwise it is awefully slow. From memory 1 second real time = 1.33 seconds of game time on Faster setting, so a 30 minute game in Starcraft (Faster) is actually 40 minutes in the replay file, or 40 minutes on Normal speed.
Key responses have notihng to do with time because they have no delay, ie, they will be processed the next game loop which is 32 times a second, however, key responses must be sent from your computer to bnet and back again, so for someone like me in Australia, it is half a second to bnet, half a second back = 1 second delay time when using key responses. This is simply the laws of physics, moving at nearly the speed of light through a dozen routers.
Where as "data" is local, it is based on your computer. The commands you issue are locally shown and sent to the server at the same time = no delay. Hence the need for a Data system for WASD movement, because it would be locally based = no delay.
0
It is pretty amazing.
We have uploaded two more videos, which are showcases of the heroes in the game. I know Dryeyce has done the audio for another 4 heroes, but I just lost an external harddrive with all my photoshop files on it, for all of Tofu. And whilst I do not technically need those photoshop files for the game anymore, as the UI work is done, I no longer have the files required to make the movies, so until I get some time to redo them, or to at least capture the frames from previous videos + put a raid in this comp, the videos will have to wait, cause with only 4gb free on the SSD, there is no way in hell I can capture video.
As stated numerous times, I always understood what community we are showcasing this map to. Obviously, if we marketted it hard to the general Battle.net population, they would be more impressed by eye candy than by technical features. It is really wise for me to list things out, like my engine is plug and play, extremely modular, etc ... to impress fellow scripters? No, because at the end of the day that is all invisible to the general community.
You have by far the best reputation as a Data editor, which by no doubt you are well aware of and is deserved. But I have yet to see anything totally amazing from you, in terms of a finished project. Does anyone care that Icefrog stole/copied/borrowed ideas from Tofu in 2004 whilst he was a beta tester? Or that my skills were greater than his and Guinsoo's at the time? No ... because put simply I never released a finished project. Having these amazing and revolutionary maps are all good and well, but if they are not in the popular map pool, say first five pages, then you have failed, as I did. I cannot wait for you to release something and utterly blow my mind, and I mean that with the utmost respect. Ie, AoS II if it is ever completed -_-.
The video was merely a teaser full of eye candy, a chaotic blend of flashy animation to simply get people to talk about the project, and in that regards we have most certainly succeeded. You guys want technical videos, which we want to do, but there is very little point doing them now if they are subject to change in the future before release. We have probably a few weeks left before full release, I am not talking about beta, which at that time, if we were up to scratch and there are a few bugs if any to fix, we will have time to do all the videos, which at that stage will not be needed as badly, as you can hop in the game and experience it for yourself.
0
Smartass.
0
For most fine detail work I use transparent 32bit TGA files, yes they are a bit bigger, but I can clearly see the quality difference on my 27" screen. For huge files, say loading screens, background images etc, its better to use dds. I use Photoshop for creating images, then GIMP for saving them as .dds ... stupid Nvidia for not supporting Win7 64bit.
0
The way Dry and I are doing it for Tofu TMA is we are using mods.
Map . . Data Mod . . . . Asset Mod . . . . UI Asset Mod
And you should be using [ Records ]. Naughty naughty naughty. The reasons we are using 3 mods is that "balance" changes only require the download if a very tiny 500kb mod file, where as when adding new heroes, it requires the download of say a 1mb, asset file, where as the UI asset file will ve very rarely updated holds about 8-10mb of stuff.
There should be 1 function on your map called something like "Local Variables" (name doesnt matter), in which every single doodad, point, etc, anything map specific should be defined by variables! That way you can copy your whole engine over and you will only need to update 1 function and it won't break everything.
Or in the case of bug fixes, you delete and copy everything except for that one function and it will work fine (obviously don't delete the records).
I have never used triggers as part of a mod file, it is something I might look into in the future, but yes, what you said is exactly what I have done. You have basically a single variable to tell your engine which map it is and the engine will change to suit it.
0
This can be done via Data, and should be done via Data.
0
Network traffic in itself is not a problem, the problem arises with delay, the physical distance between you and b.net, thus using "Player presses key A" will cause delay, because it has to be sent to Bnet and back to show the result on the local computer. Blizzard show allow the creation of local triggers, especially for using hotkeys and 'showing/hiding' dialogs, because it is not interfering with the game itself, not changing anything server side. That is common sense for me.
Pressing a dialog button or a hotkey locally shows up automatically, however because I am in Australia it is about a 1 second wait back to Battle.net.
Real time should always be used for everything in scripting ... now that the data editor is so powerful, unlike Wc3. You should set your game to run "Faster" anyways by default ...
0
Chances are you discovered a bug with Starcraft, +1 cookie for you.
You want chocolate chip or macadamia?
0
The 50MB mod file I presume without looking at it is the graphics, the sounds, the models, etc.
There is a reason people do not add many new models to the game ... You could try and "delete" things from the import part of the mod file, things you don't need, but you will need to publish the mod in order to utilize your changes.
0
Chances are it got corrupted and the backup is the best you can do ... put it into perspective, think about how much time you are wasting trying to solve the problem to how much time it would take you to do the work again ... I know it sucks but it is better to cut your losses early. I had Tofu error on me a few times and lost a days worth of work, its not fun, better to have autoback up every 15 mins or so. When it did that I would simply get the last backup and start coding again, because I had already done it, I was faster than the first time. Better than wasting time for something you can't fix simply IMO.
0
You have to have some kind of unit/doodad (neutral colour) as the ground and tint it according to player's colours.
0
You beat me to it Cinicraft.
Icetroll Tribes is a game that I made before the version now that is popular was popular? Ugh, Kyx's version from memory? Long before the Island Maps/Jungle Maps etc ... I am not trying to take any credit or anything - I never released the map, but I love Kyx's classic Ice Trolls compared to any other survivor map.
http://www.dogmai.org/icetrolls.jpg - From early 2004.
It was stupidily advanced for the time, polished etc ... the screenshot above was an old jpg I found on the other computer that I uploaded about 8 months ago. You could literally click on your "build" or "construct" abilties, it would load that commandcard which you could then select a building, see the placeholder, place it on the ground, and it would use your resources (items), say you had 3 slate, picked up 4 but could only carry 5, you would carry 5 slate + 2 slate, if you wanted to use 6 slate to build something you would then be left with 1 slate. If you didn't have the resources you couldn't build it. It is simple now, but at the time it was unheard of.
Not only that you would freeze faster in water, you could mine gold, dig tunnels, etc, it was amazing. But alas like every other thing I ever did in Wc3 I didn't release it. I have hundreds of maps I didn't release, so sad. You could create a "Tribe Totem Pole" and other players could join your "Tribe" by clicking on the totem pole, you could name your tribe, leave other tribes etc etc. There would be bonuses for being in a tribe, you could capture wild animals as pets etc.
I wanted so badly to bring Ice Trolls to Sc2, or something similar, but I made the choice to do Tofu / TMA first. I told many people that after TMA was released I wanted to make a survivor map - so your map better be damn pro mate. Or I am going to come for you like I am going to go for Phantom Mode :D
I would love to see your work in progess mate.
0
You can move things with the Sc2Layout override method, out of sight is out of mind.
0
It is the same as Starcraft II Melee, every little minute action in the beginning of the game snowballs towards the late game. Choosing to make 1 pair of Lings compared to 1 Drone at the start can cost you a game at the very highest level. This is why it is addictive, but if a game is say 2-10 in the first 10 minutes, then you can kindly leave.
It is something that I and Dryeyece have discussed extensively for Tofu, and the way we are implementing the mechanics of the game, for respawning, loot, etc, we are moving away from the Dota/Hon/LoL system of a huge snowballing effect, and are going to try a different way of handling respawn and bonuses. Will it work? Meh, who knows. A lot of people like the snowballing effect when they are behind it, building the snowball, you put the same people in front of it and they are the leaving noob fucks.
After 8 years of playing Dota, I still have my off games and get called a noob, and I am like lolwut? At one time I was at the very pinnicle of Dota in AU, but I am only as good as my team is, do I feed? Maybe one or two out of a hundred games, but that is usually down to a bad hero lineup, or someone stuffing me up early game, ie - denying every single creep, and not letting me get any exp. A week ago I went against a host, he was ranged I was melee, he denied every single creep until I was level 3 against his level 6, I said GG, and he said yeah it is pretty messed up and we remade the game.
People never care to remember the times you carry everyone, the times where it was your pro decision making that won the game, but they will remember if you feed once. In the end, the team needs a leader. In Dota the best Chinese teams have a leader and the rest follow, you need someone to make decisions, if everyone is doing their own thing then you arn't going to get anywhere, because it is a team game.
Too many abilities ... there use to exist in the early days, IE - 2003/2004, a Create your Own Dota. Where you could choose from numerous skills, the hero, etc. And it was fun, it was awesome, but it didn't live for long. If it got to the stage where Dota is, there would only be one single hero, with one single lineup of abilities, if you didn't get that then GTFOFKENNOOBCAKE, <insert.small.epenor.rage.here>. I cannot stand the chinese kids who think they are pro in Dota and tell me I buy a wrong item for a hero. It is like ... wtf get fked asshole ... and I go on to pwn. People have become so obsessed over numbers, the fact that there exists a "Chinese Cookie Cutter Template" for every hero, and it you don't do that you're noob, is completely and utterly stupid. There are of course some items that are better on others, but it comes down to your skill level and the way you play.
I personally have no issue running into their fountain to get the kill and dying myself, because I am a dick like that. People are like wtf ... but, when I do make it to the fountain, get the kill, and get out of their base alive, people are speechless because they never see that gameplay before. Having moulded hero designs, tutorials etc, stiffle innovation. The same with the pro Sc2 circuit, the best players are the ones who adapt and wing it, the ones who think outside the box, and try new things. If it doesn't work, alright you know for next time.
Bought upgrades existed in most other AoS maps other than Dota - remember, the secret to Dota is people are selfish assholes (TM). In Dota, you don't care about anything other than your hero, you don't ugprade creeps etc. All these ideas have been done before and Dota came out on top. Feel free to add them to an AoS, but as I said, it had been done before, it had a small following, but the masses are assholes, and they play Dota.
Rating system is obvious and should be implemented in any map, but it is subject to a huge amount of abuse, a huge amount of abuse.
Say you completely own the other team, they rate you down because of that ... go figure.