Took 3 years off work to develop Tofu. The average wage for a male where I live is 6 figures, if I went out to work I would be on ~ 120-150k/year - but it is hard work with long hours, not gonna lie. I would rather develop games.
We needed financial support and more technical support regarding upgrading the platform to support these types of games.
I have applied 3 times for 5 positions within Blizzard (on the suggestion of Devs), each time I had internal support and each time I failed to even get to the phone-call stage. My last application was rejected a few days ago, and I am tired, I am really tired now.
Given my skillset basis in corporate Australia, I should have been *theoretically* over qualified for the positions. 3 were entry level, 2 were mid level. As such, no luck.
@ Mozza,
It could very much be finished in our spare time but the problem lies herein; whilst developing Tofu we regularly put in 50-90 hours per week. We sacrificed time with our families and loved ones to do this project. Therefore, you honestly cannot expect us to go work say 40 hours per week then spend another 20-30 hours a week developing Tofu because it is in our 'spare time'. This is time that is better being spent with our families, because as history as shown us, our families support us a lot better than Blizzard has - which is to be expected.
Tofu indeed has 'big multiple-zones' planned, it was a three part project of the RPG | Hero-Arenas and Moba. We hit the same kind of technical limit that SCU reached in that regard and were waiting for a fix. We wanted fully custom models, some of which were getting done. Good Terrain, yes, we left it to last as it was not worth spending time on until we had finalised all the mechanics etc. Essentially by the time we had finished, you should not be able to tell that you were still playing Starcraft.
But it all comes down to money as well, I would be better of developing in my spare-time in Unity for Steam than Sc2 and Battle.net. If we knew what we knew back then when I started, I would have probably gone with Unity as Battle.net 2.0 didn't live up to what was promised to us. Keep in mind, that I have supported Blizzard 110% up until this point, but with this last rejection, there is no future here for me unless something changes on their end.
Tofu was never finished, simple as that. There are many flaws that we wanted to address but we had to walk away.
There are two types of developers for Battle.net 2.0, unlike in Warcraft III where there was one.
Those that did it as a real job, wanting to create hugely polished projects, and those that did it for a hobby.
At no time have I ever said for those who do it because they enjoy it to stop doing it. I merely pointed out, investment wise, it is a poor choice to support Battle.net 2.0 as a development platform for those that wish to earn an income from developing these projects - as was promised to us from Blizzard.
There are many people. including SCU, who did this for REAL money, as a REAL job and worked as such. Many projects folded early on, two stayed (that we know of); SCU and Tofu. If this kickstarter had failed then Ryan and Mille would have walked away like Dryeyece and I, there is no difference between the two projects. Both are unfinished, both teams are in a huge amount of debt - even with the kickstarter injecting funds.
If we received a $80,000 kickstarter, Dryeyece and I could finish Tofu up to where we wanted it to be, but it does not make up for all the lost income from the years preceding. As it stands now, as pointed out by both sides of the argument, it is mediocre and it is unfinished - no body understands that more than Dryeyece and I, but what can we do? We got basically no support (aside from much valued feedback and game tests), we were told to do things by the developers, of which we did and nothing eventuated out of it. We wasted more time and energy trying to do what was "right" on the basis of more and more promises, of which all were broken. It sucks, but such is life.
I am tired, honestly, I am really really tired. I am tired of the project, I am tired of getting no support, I am tired of being rejected and I am tired of having my life on hold because we made the choice to support Battle.net 2.0. In hindsight, Unity and Steam would have been the better choice, but at the time, both platforms looked as good as each other but one was neglected ... go figure.
I do have a really good polished project on my resume, but it is only good if I get a job in the industry.
But as always, everything much happen for a reason right, so we can only look forward to the future and hope something comes out of the work we have done.
This equates to an income (before Kickstarter's cut and taxes etc) of $10,000 per year for both Ryan and Mille. Add in the latter, and it is down to about 6/7k per year ... unemployment wages are higher than that.
Tofu would break even at about the $400,000-$500,000 mark.
This is why when I say I lost $250,000 developing Tofu, I really did, it is a justified amount as the average wage for a male on my side of Australia is 6 figures and that is what I gave up because I had faith in the promises that were made to us. I will never get back that lost income unless I get a job in the games industry that is over 150k/year because I can go earn 120k/year driving a truck in my city, just to put things in perspective.
Having a 80k kickstarter after 3 years would be almost like a slap in the face. Obviously, Ryan is I dare say, a lot more privy to information than I am, or has better guesses, and has a rough idea of what is coming *if it comes*. Thus, he set SCU up to gain more income at that point.
Make no mistake, at least we as a community are now, no one can ever pull off this fluke again.
Ryan got super lucky when Blizzard stuffed up. Every move Ryan makes is plastered all over the front page of every major gaming website.
No other project can come close.
Yes I understand it is the idea of an MMORPG of Sc2 but come the f.. on ... you know as well as I do it comes down to Blizzard stuffing up because I dare say, how many times has Blizzard stuffed up like that? That is where the success of SCU comes from. Nothing more, nothing less.
For the rest of us, we are being forced to leave. Blizzard could save us, but at least as it stands now, they choose not to.
I know Eckonovokol (RNG - SOTIS/AOS) and I are gunning for the same position in life, and only one if any can succeed. This will define the future of what we can achieve through battle.net, does Blizzard support the innovators or do they support the copycats? I love RNG, as I do Ryan and Mille, obviously all of us at the top of the development community get along because we all hate the mods here with an equal passion, but we are all different, all seeking different outcomes based upon the same system.
The majority of the top developers have already left regardless if their project is active or not. And unless I get a lifeline from Blizzard I too will be forced to go. We are losing everyone because everyone lost too much money when Blizzard broke their promises. Some more than others.
Time will tell, do not attempt to copy this kickstarter, you will not succeed.
I say this not through spite, but through love for you all ... I don't want to see you fail.
Wait at least until things improve in the platform. :)
I posted it not to make an example of any Sc2 kickstarters, but because I thought that the majority of people here would actually be interested in supporting this project.
I'll get around to donating $20 in like a week or so ... I would love the $250 signed hard cover art book ... just don't have that money to spare atm ...
We have never hit the doodad limit and our Arenas are quite bland for the most part, so this does not affect us as much, but I completely agree with your statement. On a side note we did hit the unit limit whilst making Evo Wars X :)
What I posted was merely the headers of what I wrote, I did not see any reason to post the explanations etc.
@ ArcanePariah on the IRC, the question was asked what do we need; I responded as such. Some of them will fall into 'pure fantasy', the others will fall into 'easily doable', but that was the whole point of the exercise - to get an idea of what we want in a perfect world.
As to whether or not it would be cost prohibitive, it depends on where you want the arcade to go. If you want something that could rival steam in regards to Indi Projects / User Created Content then it would be wise to meet the bulk of these suggestions. If not, and it stays merely an internal sub-feature of Starcraft II, then yes, you are indeed right and there is very little reason to put in any of the more advanced features.
I will direct Blizzard to read this thread, good suggestions Renee.
At the end of the day I have to put forward issues that directly affect our development, as such, many issues that you guys wanted changed we wanted as well. For those that are interested, this is what I am sending to Blizzard.
Developer Experience Stuff
Feature: Financial Support
Feature: Developer Summit
Feature: Employment Pathways
Feature: More communication between Blizzard and Developers
Feature: Change the background colour of the Trigger/Data editor etc.
Feature: Offline Editor
Player Experience Stuff
Feature: Standalone Launcher and Matchmaking
Feature: Free To Play Arcade
Feature: Download Map/Mod BEFORE entering lobby! Pending Players are bad!
Feature: Server-Side storage of player data and global data
Feature: VIP Developers should get more storage
Feature: Map/Mod Encryption
Feature: Arcade should be expansion free
Feature: DNS Server for Map Links
Feature: Linking Maps on the Fly (Multiplayer Campaigns)
0
It was meant to be used in conjunction with the previous mod system.
EDIT>
@ Tya's solution, this is the way to do it if you don't want to use a modulo system.
0
Convert to string > convert back to real.
0
It is not from rotation, it is from Anchor Points. Using a bit of maths you can do it via a custom function ...
Normal (Left to Right / Anchor to Far Point)
Reversed (Right to Left / Far Point to Anchor)
0
Damned if I do. Damned if I don't.
Split the thread, I ain't hijacking anything.
0
@ Fullachain,
Took 3 years off work to develop Tofu. The average wage for a male where I live is 6 figures, if I went out to work I would be on ~ 120-150k/year - but it is hard work with long hours, not gonna lie. I would rather develop games.
We needed financial support and more technical support regarding upgrading the platform to support these types of games.
I have applied 3 times for 5 positions within Blizzard (on the suggestion of Devs), each time I had internal support and each time I failed to even get to the phone-call stage. My last application was rejected a few days ago, and I am tired, I am really tired now.
Given my skillset basis in corporate Australia, I should have been *theoretically* over qualified for the positions. 3 were entry level, 2 were mid level. As such, no luck.
@ Mozza,
It could very much be finished in our spare time but the problem lies herein; whilst developing Tofu we regularly put in 50-90 hours per week. We sacrificed time with our families and loved ones to do this project. Therefore, you honestly cannot expect us to go work say 40 hours per week then spend another 20-30 hours a week developing Tofu because it is in our 'spare time'. This is time that is better being spent with our families, because as history as shown us, our families support us a lot better than Blizzard has - which is to be expected.
Tofu indeed has 'big multiple-zones' planned, it was a three part project of the RPG | Hero-Arenas and Moba. We hit the same kind of technical limit that SCU reached in that regard and were waiting for a fix. We wanted fully custom models, some of which were getting done. Good Terrain, yes, we left it to last as it was not worth spending time on until we had finalised all the mechanics etc. Essentially by the time we had finished, you should not be able to tell that you were still playing Starcraft.
But it all comes down to money as well, I would be better of developing in my spare-time in Unity for Steam than Sc2 and Battle.net. If we knew what we knew back then when I started, I would have probably gone with Unity as Battle.net 2.0 didn't live up to what was promised to us. Keep in mind, that I have supported Blizzard 110% up until this point, but with this last rejection, there is no future here for me unless something changes on their end.
0
Tofu was never finished, simple as that. There are many flaws that we wanted to address but we had to walk away.
There are two types of developers for Battle.net 2.0, unlike in Warcraft III where there was one.
Those that did it as a real job, wanting to create hugely polished projects, and those that did it for a hobby.
At no time have I ever said for those who do it because they enjoy it to stop doing it. I merely pointed out, investment wise, it is a poor choice to support Battle.net 2.0 as a development platform for those that wish to earn an income from developing these projects - as was promised to us from Blizzard.
There are many people. including SCU, who did this for REAL money, as a REAL job and worked as such. Many projects folded early on, two stayed (that we know of); SCU and Tofu. If this kickstarter had failed then Ryan and Mille would have walked away like Dryeyece and I, there is no difference between the two projects. Both are unfinished, both teams are in a huge amount of debt - even with the kickstarter injecting funds.
If we received a $80,000 kickstarter, Dryeyece and I could finish Tofu up to where we wanted it to be, but it does not make up for all the lost income from the years preceding. As it stands now, as pointed out by both sides of the argument, it is mediocre and it is unfinished - no body understands that more than Dryeyece and I, but what can we do? We got basically no support (aside from much valued feedback and game tests), we were told to do things by the developers, of which we did and nothing eventuated out of it. We wasted more time and energy trying to do what was "right" on the basis of more and more promises, of which all were broken. It sucks, but such is life.
I am tired, honestly, I am really really tired. I am tired of the project, I am tired of getting no support, I am tired of being rejected and I am tired of having my life on hold because we made the choice to support Battle.net 2.0. In hindsight, Unity and Steam would have been the better choice, but at the time, both platforms looked as good as each other but one was neglected ... go figure.
I do have a really good polished project on my resume, but it is only good if I get a job in the industry.
But as always, everything much happen for a reason right, so we can only look forward to the future and hope something comes out of the work we have done.
0
More like realist?
I like my simple life in the country, it is nice. Overall life is a good experience, developing for Battle.net, no so much.
Hopefully things change though ...
0
This equates to an income (before Kickstarter's cut and taxes etc) of $10,000 per year for both Ryan and Mille. Add in the latter, and it is down to about 6/7k per year ... unemployment wages are higher than that.
Tofu would break even at about the $400,000-$500,000 mark.
This is why when I say I lost $250,000 developing Tofu, I really did, it is a justified amount as the average wage for a male on my side of Australia is 6 figures and that is what I gave up because I had faith in the promises that were made to us. I will never get back that lost income unless I get a job in the games industry that is over 150k/year because I can go earn 120k/year driving a truck in my city, just to put things in perspective.
Having a 80k kickstarter after 3 years would be almost like a slap in the face. Obviously, Ryan is I dare say, a lot more privy to information than I am, or has better guesses, and has a rough idea of what is coming *if it comes*. Thus, he set SCU up to gain more income at that point.
Make no mistake, at least we as a community are now, no one can ever pull off this fluke again.
Ryan got super lucky when Blizzard stuffed up. Every move Ryan makes is plastered all over the front page of every major gaming website.
No other project can come close.
Yes I understand it is the idea of an MMORPG of Sc2 but come the f.. on ... you know as well as I do it comes down to Blizzard stuffing up because I dare say, how many times has Blizzard stuffed up like that? That is where the success of SCU comes from. Nothing more, nothing less.
For the rest of us, we are being forced to leave. Blizzard could save us, but at least as it stands now, they choose not to.
I know Eckonovokol (RNG - SOTIS/AOS) and I are gunning for the same position in life, and only one if any can succeed. This will define the future of what we can achieve through battle.net, does Blizzard support the innovators or do they support the copycats? I love RNG, as I do Ryan and Mille, obviously all of us at the top of the development community get along because we all hate the mods here with an equal passion, but we are all different, all seeking different outcomes based upon the same system.
The majority of the top developers have already left regardless if their project is active or not. And unless I get a lifeline from Blizzard I too will be forced to go. We are losing everyone because everyone lost too much money when Blizzard broke their promises. Some more than others.
Time will tell, do not attempt to copy this kickstarter, you will not succeed.
I say this not through spite, but through love for you all ... I don't want to see you fail.
Wait at least until things improve in the platform. :)
0
I posted it not to make an example of any Sc2 kickstarters, but because I thought that the majority of people here would actually be interested in supporting this project.
I'll get around to donating $20 in like a week or so ... I would love the $250 signed hard cover art book ... just don't have that money to spare atm ...
And who says I don't care about you guys <3
0
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mightyno9/mighty-no-9
0
I dare say it would have to do with RAM usage. As when we hit the unit limit in Sc2, even if they were not being rendered, it really lagged down.
And yes, it would be just a constant number they changed.
0
We have never hit the doodad limit and our Arenas are quite bland for the most part, so this does not affect us as much, but I completely agree with your statement. On a side note we did hit the unit limit whilst making Evo Wars X :)
0
What I posted was merely the headers of what I wrote, I did not see any reason to post the explanations etc.
@ ArcanePariah on the IRC, the question was asked what do we need; I responded as such. Some of them will fall into 'pure fantasy', the others will fall into 'easily doable', but that was the whole point of the exercise - to get an idea of what we want in a perfect world.
As to whether or not it would be cost prohibitive, it depends on where you want the arcade to go. If you want something that could rival steam in regards to Indi Projects / User Created Content then it would be wise to meet the bulk of these suggestions. If not, and it stays merely an internal sub-feature of Starcraft II, then yes, you are indeed right and there is very little reason to put in any of the more advanced features.
0
I will direct Blizzard to read this thread, good suggestions Renee.
At the end of the day I have to put forward issues that directly affect our development, as such, many issues that you guys wanted changed we wanted as well. For those that are interested, this is what I am sending to Blizzard.
Developer Experience Stuff
Feature: Financial Support
Feature: Developer Summit
Feature: Employment Pathways
Feature: More communication between Blizzard and Developers
Feature: Change the background colour of the Trigger/Data editor etc.
Feature: Offline Editor
Player Experience Stuff
Feature: Standalone Launcher and Matchmaking
Feature: Free To Play Arcade
Feature: Download Map/Mod BEFORE entering lobby! Pending Players are bad!
Feature: Server-Side storage of player data and global data
Feature: VIP Developers should get more storage
Feature: Map/Mod Encryption
Feature: Arcade should be expansion free
Feature: DNS Server for Map Links
Feature: Linking Maps on the Fly (Multiplayer Campaigns)
Feature: NO-FLY Pathing, NO-ANYTHING Pathing.
Feature: 512x512 maps.
Feature: 16 Terrain Options.
Feature: More than 3 height levels.
Feature: Real water and amphibious units.
Feature: Warcraft III, World of Warcraft Assets
Feature: Local Triggers / Asynchronous Support
Feature: Youtube Videos in the Arcade Page
Feature: Statistics for Developers
Feature: Bug Report
Feature: Force Tutorial First
0
Or you could create one giant text label and set it to the text + text label. Eventually you will hit the limit though, but it will be doable.
One way would be to check how many msgs are sent and then don't send anymore.
Set everything in variables, like text[1] = hi text[2] = lol
That way you can set the text label to text[1]+text[2] and it would be hi lol