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    posted a message on Monthly Mapping Exercise #1

    Using this thread as an excuse to finally learn the mapping tools a bit more.

    early wip; http://imgur.com/ZVLlz.jpg

    most recent update;


    white = rocks pink lines = brush pink dots = xel naga towers blue/gold = minerals

    the one blue/watery spot probably wont be water..but some other movement blocker (like small elevated area with a statue)

    Definitely needs a lot of work, but figured I'd post some early WIP shots. The texturing will likely take a while since I plan on doing it in similar style to a texture test I did with the editor a while back;


    Posted in: Miscellaneous Development
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    posted a message on make custom ground
    Quote from Reaper872: Go

    @Alrik1989: Go

    Umm... not to sound dumb but how do you actually make the texture? In the editor or somewhere else?

    You need to use photoshop or a similar program that can edit .dds files.

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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    posted a message on Recruitment - Dune: Evolution

    Glad you guys have decided to switch to Starcraft 2. If you're serious about it though, I'd highly suggest you kill the C&C3 version and focus on the SC2 one entirely...with a project of your scope it is extremely difficult to finish a release for 1 engine, let alone 2. Keep in mind that the final 5-10% of any project will take much much more time than you could ever expect. Hell, for Mideast Crisis 2...it took us 6-8 months to polish our 2 faction beta into something we could release. Then we spent another 6-8 just polishing and iterating it more for the 2nd release...and tbh we could still have spent more time polishing.

    I'd also suggest you guys rethink the resource system since switching to SC2 offers more options. I'd love to see a Dune RTS that used; spice, money and water as its 3 core resources. The interaction of the three is what makes it interesting, using spice for fremen-type units or selling it for money, using money to buy units, all units requiring water when built (but also is harvestable from fallen units)...and so on.

    Either way, I can't wait to play a version of it (on either engine). Best of luck!

    Posted in: Team Recruitment
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    posted a message on Where did everyone go?
    Quote from Karawasa: Go

    Your prediction for the scene is wishful thinking. What makes you think that a fix is coming anytime soon?

    1) Blizzard has said, many times, by many different devs that they'll do so.

    2) Blizzard clearly has made supporting the modding scene a priority as part of their plans for ensuring SC2 longevity and aiming to use it as another possible revenue stream. The last part is the key element there, them building SC2 to have a sort of mini-steam/xbla is part of a business strategy. This isn't them going "gee this'll be nice for the fans"...no, at the core it is done as an attempt to earn more money and as such it has a higher priority than otherwise.

    Compare this to other highly moddable games; Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, etc. they are made so moddable and flexible as a side effect of the games aiming to license the engine's (which is very similar to what the premium marketplace is said to be).

    Proof of this focus is seen early on with; tools out in the beta, them making/releasing their own custom mods, the blizzcon contest, patch updates to the editor...etc. I haven't seen this level of support before in an RTS.

    3) I never said "soon", this is Blizzard we're talking about. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the art export tools and bnet tweaks are out within 6 months.

    Quote from Karawasa: Go

    While I agree that the "shiny phase" is partially to blame for the decline in the scene, it should be noted that this effect was amplified by the various BNET problems. This "it takes time" argument is quite flawed. The game has been out for several months, even longer if you include beta. No one is asking for a total conversion or a fully developed DotA at this moment. But, we definitely should be seeing more than we are now. Notice how our beloved Nexus Wars is actually an inferior Footman Frenzy for example...

    How is it flawed, what other modding communities are you comparing SC2 to? I personally am overwhelmed with the amount of clever, well made mods made (and being made) for SC2 at this point...far far more than I'd have predicted.

    Posted in: Off-Topic
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    posted a message on SkaldCG's Modelling Thread

    Pretty nice model, although kinda hard to offer detailed critique due to not having any of the texture flats posted or knowing the polycount. I can offer the following comments though;

    -This is way higher poly than it should be. This is an RTS/RPG civilian building (meant to be placed many, many times on a map), and that model has at least 500-1000 polies more than needed. You could have virtually the same look, at a fraction of the polies if you made most of the wood detailing be raised with the normal map and not through the actual geometry.

    -UVMap, I do have to commend you for tiling textures and reusing them where possible...however keep in mind that, this is made to be from a top-down, pulled out perspective. This means that the part most visible of the building will always be the roof. I'd either edit the roof texture to look less obviously tiled, or make it into 1 texture that fits each side of the roof fully (instead of 1 texture tiled across one side 4x).

    Again, nice work. It is great to see more custom art posted up.

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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    posted a message on Where did everyone go?

    There is a lot of whining and doomsaying in the thread, some of you really need to just chill out and get some perspective. First up, if you're getting into modding purely for popularity...you're doing it for the wrong reasons. In my opinion, you should mod because you enjoy the process of modding itself.

    A few years ago I was lucky enough to be invited to a community event in LA with the Command and Conquer 3 dev's. At dinner one night I was talking to the team lead and some of the designers, and it was unanimous that the first RTS to have modding anywhere near the scope of Quake 3 would be awesome and game-changing. At the time it was a nice blue sky idea that no one seriously think would ever happen (let alone one that would happen with a built-in steam-like system).

    That game is Starcraft 2, and most (if not all) the complaints I've seen are due to issues that Blizzard has said they'll be fixing (or releasing, in the case of art export tools). The popularity system ya, is annoying and certainly has put some people off of modding...but they'll come back when its fixed. Its also pretty common to see a drop off of modders after the initial "oh this is new and shiny, lets tinker with it" phase. It is extremely hard, and time consuming to make and release a mod of any substantial scope...so it will take time to see big mods pop up. I'll go as far to say that we probably won't see a ton of activity in SC2 modding until it gets its first hugely popular mod (its Counterstrike, its Dota, etc.).

    Bringing comparison's back to C&C3, right now I'm wrapping up my mod just so we can focus on our SC2 project 100%. After tinkering with SC2 modding, its really hard to even go back to C&C3. Very little actual dev support, a small fraction of the moddability and depth SC2 has, much smaller userbase (with it being likely that 99% of those who bought CNC3 didn't even know mods exist for it), no potential of having any sort of premium marketplace...oh and a tiny, minor issue that in order to even test the mod out, we have to spend 20-30minutes to compile it first. Even with all those annoyances, we've still spent years working on a mod...why? because we love it.

    Posted in: Off-Topic
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    posted a message on CnC4

    Nice to see some more CNC people around;

    Quote from SouLCarveRR: Go

    Any of you guys remember modding Red Alert Map ini files... Me and my friends had a lot of fun making crazy shit and then playing over lan. =)

    Hell ya, our favorite thing for some reason was buildable exploding barrels with no distance limit. :P


    If you want to know more about why CNC4 was so bad, check out this interview; http://www.cncsaga.de/foren/viewtopic.php?id=522

    As for good CNC's, I'd go with RA2 and then Generals easily as my favorites (also, same designer as SC2).

    Posted in: Off-Topic
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    posted a message on Creating textures similiar too...
    Quote from FraindorX: Go

    If there is nothing special on that texture, please create a step-by-step/video instructions so I can learn to create the not so special texture =)

    The thing is, for those with decent core art skills replicating that texture isn't a big deal. If you can't draw or paint decently, there really isn't much someone can tell you that'll let you copy it. Its like asking someone to teach you (in an hour) a way to copy the Mona Lisa...its just not possible. :P

    Not exactly what you're looking for, but might give you some insight into the workflow used in a texture like that; http://www.isotx.com/forums/index.php?topic=8581.0 (click the thumbnails, show process pics)

    You should be able to do some of the techniques at least.

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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    posted a message on Uv Wrap isn't working properly?

    You really need to post some more info before we can help you much...things like; what software you're using (3dsmax, etc.), and ideally screenshots of what exactly is your issue

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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    posted a message on Having trouble with unwrap uvw

    By 'unfold mapping' you mean pelt mapping right? There are a lot of tutorials on it, and its pretty simple to get the hang of (its only really that useful on organic/cloth elements though).

    For uvmapping I always keep 2 things in mind;

    1) Make sure there is as little wasted space as possible (all that empty black area is a no-no, you have at least 25% wasted space there). The more efficient your texture is, the higher resolution it'll look ingame.

    2) Keep the model in as few chunks as possible (meaning less seams, more logical layout). Example, so if you have an arm that would be 1 chunk, torso/legs could be another, and so on.

    If you want some good examples of uvmap efficiency just look at the SC2 textures, see how they are laid out. If you want to see extreme efficiency go load up some of the older WoW textures.

    Here are a couple examples of infantry I uvmapped/textured for my last mod (sorry don't have the actual uv's on hand..should give an idea of how its laid out though);

    http://www.derelictstudios.net/users/smurf/mec2/israel_reservist_1.jpg http://www.derelictstudios.net/users/smurf/mec2/arab_fedayeen_1.jpg

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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    posted a message on Texturing Workflow Article

    Awesome to see you doing some SC2 stuff. ;) From what I've seen the community could use more skilled artists.

    Tools...hopefully we'll get the particlefx editor eventually (was such a pain doing CNC3 ones by hand).

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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    posted a message on Texturing Workflow Article

    In between working on very early stages of our SC2 project, my team has also been working to wrap up our Command and Conquer 3 conversion. One of our latest updates includes a lengthy article about the texturing workflow we used throughout the project, and the 200+ textures made for it. Keep in mind this is not specifically about Starcraft 2, and the spec/normal map area will not be the same as SC2...but the general idea of how I texture, how I save time on the normal map and so on is universal.

    Hopefully someone finds this helpful. :)


    Once I get into doing art for our SC2 project, I'll probably be doing some new more specific tutorials up.

    If you have any questions about texturing in general, post below and I'll do my best to help. I won't be much use for anything specific to SC2 yet though (plus there already are a few tutorials on the basics of model exporting/etc.).

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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    posted a message on Higher resolution terrain texture?

    I am pretty sure you can get away with it if its a decal, or 3d model embedded.

    No clue if there is a way to up the resolution of the default textures much though (all of this is on my list of things I want to test out at some point).

    Posted in: Terrain
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    posted a message on Anyone else worried the map editor will spoil the single player campaign?
    Quote from Sixen: Go

    I don't think so. If models were all to the SC storyline, that'd worry me more, :P.

    I think what they mean is if you loaded the editor up and saw a Zerg King Raynor model...you might spoil yourself on the sp some. ;)

    Most people will be playing the campaign first anyway, don't think its a big deal.

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on [Contest] 3D Modeling
    Quote from Dieable: Go

    will there be a second contest ?

    I hope so.

    Suggestion on a new contest though, if you do one...instead of asking people to make things completely unrelated to Starcraft 2. Why not make it something useful for non-artists, make it so that when done all contest entries would be used as open source art files.

    Example of what could be done; make a new set of doodads for an existing SC2 tileset, or brainstorm up a new tileset and ask people to do things according to that theme

    Posted in: Artist Tavern
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