The original might seem like garbage now, but when it came out in (i think) the August after War3's release i remember saying to myself "YES. YES. THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO PLAY." Compared to everything else at the time, the original DotA was spectacular.
@OneSoga:
I'm so glad people remember Eul. In my mind, DotA is his creation. When I first played Allstars after the the release of TFT, i thought it was all crappy because of the name and the horrible balance issues.
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I kinda think it's too bad that no one played Eul's 2nd dota map. He made Dota 2: Thirst for Gamma way back in warcraft 3's prime, but no one would play it. It did crash a lot for me, but the heroes seemed more interesting, and the map wasn't so dumb simple.
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As regards a new Icefrog Dota, it will have to be very, very good to oust LoL and HoN. I played LoL to 400ish wins and am not willing to play anything worse even if from within Sc2. SotIS just bores me.
It would be nice to see Tides of Blood and Eve of the Apocalypse too-- remade for sc2, of course. If Dota2 is really just a copy of the current war3 build of Dota, I will be very unimpressed.
Edit: read more of the posts. The automated system idea invalidates much of what I posted below. I still think they need to support an automated system with a human review team, however.
-----------
You have my sympathy. I liked your map too.
Part of the problem is that in trying to make their game 'kid and mother approved', they're banning normal words that have a slang vulgar or sexual meaning. I think their putting a blanket ban on any use of a word is silly.
If they want to filter vulgar maps, then they need a review team that will look at any maps that are flagged objectionable. If they can't spend the time to censor reasonably, they shouldn't do it at all.
'Dyke', according to my dictionary, is an alternate spelling of 'dike' -- a dam (not a condemnation!) or levee (not lovey). As a secondary definition, it lists that it means (slang) a female homosexual.
Hence, I conclude blizzard is banning lesbians and all mention thereof.
I would like to be able to use the Galaxy Editor when not connected to the internet. Anyone know if someone has come up with a solution to this?
This became an issue last night when a storm knocked me offline for about 12 hours. I thought it a great time to do something productive (if map editing counts) but could not run the editor because it required a bnet login.
I don't really see why Blizzard felt it necessary to require authentication ike this. It's not as if someone is going to pirate sc2 just in order to play with the editor.
In the attack action's actor, in the field "Target - launch site ops+", where you set the attach point, add another actor of the type Site Operation (local offset)
For a model of how they work, look at the actor SOpHigherby3 or read any of the threads already made about them.
I just tried adding those abilities to nova, and they both worked fine with her. Did you use "Ghost - Hold Fire" or one of the other Hold Fire abilities? The Ghost version is the necessary one. Is the Hold Fire buff showing up on her after using it?
As for the second,
Depending on exactly how you want it to be, you have some options. Here are a few possibilities which assume a reasonable knowledge of the data editor:
•make a persistent channeled effect in the area where you want to fire that periodically performs a search and damages with your standard attack damage effect.
• Give the gunner a couple weapons of varying range and arc( standard, long range cannon, mid range, etc.), and enable as needed.
• Modify the weapon's min and max range (buffs maybe) and set a relatively small arc, forcing the gunner to fire in that range. I'm not sure exactly how this would be done or whether it would be worth the trouble to use this idea.
This is currently a featured map and well-deserves it.
So few maps are really about gameplay. Dota maps are about showing off abilities and effects through an established form, Unit war maps are about narrowing the standard melee game, and TD maps are about unit composition ratios and often garden design. Level Up Bound has taken a simple idea, little more complicated than Frogger, and made a cerebral and challenging 25-stage puzzler.
Despite having to make a frantic dash through explosions, this is not a click fest nor a test of reactions. To succeed, the player needs to identify the explosive patterns and determine the proper path. As a playthrough makes obvious, this is not for the easily frustrated. Despite being so simple, the game has kept this reviewer entertained over at least 7 games, and it's not just because of the difficulty.
The terrain(tiles) are very clean and do not distract from the game. Their appearance (though not custom) is reminiscent of a lot of 'hidden temple' shareware games which fits perfectly with both the mysterious and exigent music and the map's genre. The explosions, too, are of an appropriate size and style that they give the game a clean and professional look: there's no cluttering of the screen nor distraction from the game.
The game just seems planned and honed even now, in its first release (afaik), with very few flaws. This is not a Final Fantasy Epic. This is not a modified melee game. This is the Starcraft toolset being used to make an entertaining puzzler.
Gas for upgrades, spawns being more powerful the closer to the enemy base, and capturable teleporters all sound like good ideas to me.
I don't really know what you want other than encouragement. Implement them, and if they don't work, change them or get rid of them.
I haven't seen the mass marine strat, but it sounds fun.
I do best building pretty much anything until I have enough income to build a cannon in a few turns. Then I banpei while the cannon holds them off until I either have enough income/savings to quickly switch to a massed unit they can't counter or put a hero out.
Banelings are good because they don't give kills or minerals to the other team.
Another one I've had a lot of success with is stopping unit production. If the other team nukes my mass of units, their units will mass and accumulate free minerals and reinforcements the whole walk to my base, forcing a nuke. Stopping all unit production at that point means that when they hit my chelupa, they'll only have 1-2 waves since not slowing to kill my units also means not waiting for reinforcements.
I agree with much of what the review said. However, I think this map belongs to a different class of map than most other customs. It trains players in which units counter which by seeing them endlessly charge at each other, thus it could be grouped with melee training maps.
That said, neither the lack of original units nor the bland terrain bothers me. Science vessels and firebats are nice additions but weaken the ties to melee. It needs to be either a melee training game or a full custom. If it were to go the full custom route, it would need a lot of work.
Gameplay issues:
• The other nexus is so far away that a victory at one player's base will result in a snowball effect as that group of units is continually augmented and rampages through the enemy force. Significantly shortening the distance between the two bases would help that as well as the seizure inducing framerates. Unfortunately, it would also make standoffs much more frequent and require other gameplay additions to compensate.
• Upgrades and Income-- Income needs to be modified that it would increase faster early and less later. As it is now, past 130 income, the income increases very very quickly whereas sub-70 income is agonizingly slow. 10-20 income means that it takes 75-200 seconds to accumulate enough to buy a lowly zealot.
Players typically mass units until they hit the supply cap before even touching upgrades. +1 damage to three units just isn't significant until it becomes +1 damage to 20 units or the supply cap is reached, beggaring money's worth. Considering that upgrades don't increase income and require (for many) an extra building, they aren't used until endgame when the income is sufficient to pretty much buy at will. The upgrade system needs to be changed too.
I like this idea. It's great to see bunker functionality used in new ways.
There are two maps near the top of the U.S. custom list which both use bunker-tanks. Using this idea, however, is not enough to make something worth playing. It's a nice start, but it's not an entire map. Ultimate Tank Defense gets it. Bunker Circle Defense does not.
What do both maps have in common?
Both Tower (Tank) Defense maps allow the placement of units inside siege tanks. From inside, they can fire at enemy units while the tanks make good use of their arclite cannons.
Circle defense stops there and takes its place among the hoard of bromide TDs. There is no incentive to put units in tanks nor even to buy tanks, as the units do more damage once they're sufficiently upgraded. The map is won with a simple optimization equation:
((total dmg upgrades+1)*5 / 20 unit cost) > (# of units *5 / cost of upgrade) , build unit. Else save for upgrade.
Even with rough estimates, this is an easy map. Script a bot or conscript a toddler and afk for 30 minutes. Grats, you've won. There's really nothing else here. 3 unit types and 3 towers: 1 ground, 1 air, 1 both. Mix and match as you like. I was never even really sure what the conditions to lose were. One playthrough was enough for me.
Ultimate Tank Defense has been around longer and, consequently, has had more time to acquire polish. It shows. The older heroes are much better balanced than the new ones, and, though it's no epic, what's there makes sense. Units in tanks grant abilities and buffs to the tanks in addition to their own munitional contributions. Voila, reason to garrison them. Was that really so hard?
Ultimate Tank Defense is, however, by no means ultimate. It has a number of shortcomings which we hope shall be limited in future revisions. Certain new heroes *cough* Brutalisk *cough* tend to bring a lot more to the battlefield than others. Too, certain abilities granted by garrisoned units seem very weak. All that aside, the largest flaw this game suffers is horrendous performance. Framerates often dip and are drowned in single digits at around wave twelve. At that point, abilities can't be effectively used.
Conclusion:
With so many barebones TDs around, it's easy to forget what this genre has to offer. While it's not yet Burbenog, Ultimate Tank Defense would be worth playing even if its position on the list didn't force one to play it.
While we hold out in anticipation of later versions, Bunker Circle Defense feels like an alpha of Ultimate Tank Def. Look to it as proof of the custom map system's failings, but don't mistake it for diverting: it's a distraction at best.
Ratings:
Ultimate Tank D 6/10
Bunker Circle D 2/10
0
@OneTwoSC:
The original might seem like garbage now, but when it came out in (i think) the August after War3's release i remember saying to myself "YES. YES. THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO PLAY." Compared to everything else at the time, the original DotA was spectacular.
@OneSoga:
I'm so glad people remember Eul. In my mind, DotA is his creation. When I first played Allstars after the the release of TFT, i thought it was all crappy because of the name and the horrible balance issues.
------
I kinda think it's too bad that no one played Eul's 2nd dota map. He made Dota 2: Thirst for Gamma way back in warcraft 3's prime, but no one would play it. It did crash a lot for me, but the heroes seemed more interesting, and the map wasn't so dumb simple.
------
As regards a new Icefrog Dota, it will have to be very, very good to oust LoL and HoN. I played LoL to 400ish wins and am not willing to play anything worse even if from within Sc2. SotIS just bores me.
It would be nice to see Tides of Blood and Eve of the Apocalypse too-- remade for sc2, of course. If Dota2 is really just a copy of the current war3 build of Dota, I will be very unimpressed.
0
Edit: read more of the posts. The automated system idea invalidates much of what I posted below. I still think they need to support an automated system with a human review team, however.
-----------
You have my sympathy. I liked your map too.
Part of the problem is that in trying to make their game 'kid and mother approved', they're banning normal words that have a slang vulgar or sexual meaning. I think their putting a blanket ban on any use of a word is silly.
If they want to filter vulgar maps, then they need a review team that will look at any maps that are flagged objectionable. If they can't spend the time to censor reasonably, they shouldn't do it at all.
'Dyke', according to my dictionary, is an alternate spelling of 'dike' -- a dam (not a condemnation!) or levee (not lovey). As a secondary definition, it lists that it means (slang) a female homosexual.
Hence, I conclude blizzard is banning lesbians and all mention thereof.
0
It's a couple of months later, but this still hasn't been answered.
Any help?
0
I would like to be able to use the Galaxy Editor when not connected to the internet. Anyone know if someone has come up with a solution to this?
This became an issue last night when a storm knocked me offline for about 12 hours. I thought it a great time to do something productive (if map editing counts) but could not run the editor because it required a bnet login.
I don't really see why Blizzard felt it necessary to require authentication ike this. It's not as if someone is going to pirate sc2 just in order to play with the editor.
0
Besides its being the first pure typing map I've seen, it really is of a very high quality. I give it two "Hella"'s and a "cool".
0
In the attack action's actor, in the field "Target - launch site ops+", where you set the attach point, add another actor of the type Site Operation (local offset)
For a model of how they work, look at the actor SOpHigherby3 or read any of the threads already made about them.
0
I just tried adding those abilities to nova, and they both worked fine with her. Did you use "Ghost - Hold Fire" or one of the other Hold Fire abilities? The Ghost version is the necessary one. Is the Hold Fire buff showing up on her after using it?
As for the second,
Depending on exactly how you want it to be, you have some options. Here are a few possibilities which assume a reasonable knowledge of the data editor:
•make a persistent channeled effect in the area where you want to fire that periodically performs a search and damages with your standard attack damage effect.
• Give the gunner a couple weapons of varying range and arc( standard, long range cannon, mid range, etc.), and enable as needed.
• Modify the weapon's min and max range (buffs maybe) and set a relatively small arc, forcing the gunner to fire in that range. I'm not sure exactly how this would be done or whether it would be worth the trouble to use this idea.
0
I think NA has the best customs.
0
Am I the only one who first read that as $250,000 due to the comma/period regional difference?
I'd play if I were willing to get an EU account.
0
This is currently a featured map and well-deserves it.
So few maps are really about gameplay. Dota maps are about showing off abilities and effects through an established form, Unit war maps are about narrowing the standard melee game, and TD maps are about unit composition ratios and often garden design. Level Up Bound has taken a simple idea, little more complicated than Frogger, and made a cerebral and challenging 25-stage puzzler.
Despite having to make a frantic dash through explosions, this is not a click fest nor a test of reactions. To succeed, the player needs to identify the explosive patterns and determine the proper path. As a playthrough makes obvious, this is not for the easily frustrated. Despite being so simple, the game has kept this reviewer entertained over at least 7 games, and it's not just because of the difficulty.
The terrain(tiles) are very clean and do not distract from the game. Their appearance (though not custom) is reminiscent of a lot of 'hidden temple' shareware games which fits perfectly with both the mysterious and exigent music and the map's genre. The explosions, too, are of an appropriate size and style that they give the game a clean and professional look: there's no cluttering of the screen nor distraction from the game.
The game just seems planned and honed even now, in its first release (afaik), with very few flaws. This is not a Final Fantasy Epic. This is not a modified melee game. This is the Starcraft toolset being used to make an entertaining puzzler.
9/10
0
Gas for upgrades, spawns being more powerful the closer to the enemy base, and capturable teleporters all sound like good ideas to me.
I don't really know what you want other than encouragement. Implement them, and if they don't work, change them or get rid of them.
0
Quote from Hayena:
So if he'd rename all the things, like Mario = Gario and the Koopa's are Woopa's and your done? ^^
----
I see that done far too often :(
Very cool. I wanted to see double jumps and mario getting killed for walking into them.
AND TURTLE SHELLS(ftw)!!!!
0
Regarding strategies:
I haven't seen the mass marine strat, but it sounds fun.
I do best building pretty much anything until I have enough income to build a cannon in a few turns. Then I banpei while the cannon holds them off until I either have enough income/savings to quickly switch to a massed unit they can't counter or put a hero out.
Banelings are good because they don't give kills or minerals to the other team.
Another one I've had a lot of success with is stopping unit production. If the other team nukes my mass of units, their units will mass and accumulate free minerals and reinforcements the whole walk to my base, forcing a nuke. Stopping all unit production at that point means that when they hit my chelupa, they'll only have 1-2 waves since not slowing to kill my units also means not waiting for reinforcements.
0
I agree with much of what the review said. However, I think this map belongs to a different class of map than most other customs. It trains players in which units counter which by seeing them endlessly charge at each other, thus it could be grouped with melee training maps.
That said, neither the lack of original units nor the bland terrain bothers me. Science vessels and firebats are nice additions but weaken the ties to melee. It needs to be either a melee training game or a full custom. If it were to go the full custom route, it would need a lot of work.
Gameplay issues:
• The other nexus is so far away that a victory at one player's base will result in a snowball effect as that group of units is continually augmented and rampages through the enemy force. Significantly shortening the distance between the two bases would help that as well as the seizure inducing framerates. Unfortunately, it would also make standoffs much more frequent and require other gameplay additions to compensate.
• Upgrades and Income-- Income needs to be modified that it would increase faster early and less later. As it is now, past 130 income, the income increases very very quickly whereas sub-70 income is agonizingly slow. 10-20 income means that it takes 75-200 seconds to accumulate enough to buy a lowly zealot.
Players typically mass units until they hit the supply cap before even touching upgrades. +1 damage to three units just isn't significant until it becomes +1 damage to 20 units or the supply cap is reached, beggaring money's worth. Considering that upgrades don't increase income and require (for many) an extra building, they aren't used until endgame when the income is sufficient to pretty much buy at will. The upgrade system needs to be changed too.
0
I like this idea. It's great to see bunker functionality used in new ways.
There are two maps near the top of the U.S. custom list which both use bunker-tanks. Using this idea, however, is not enough to make something worth playing. It's a nice start, but it's not an entire map. Ultimate Tank Defense gets it. Bunker Circle Defense does not.
What do both maps have in common?
Both Tower (Tank) Defense maps allow the placement of units inside siege tanks. From inside, they can fire at enemy units while the tanks make good use of their arclite cannons.
Circle defense stops there and takes its place among the hoard of bromide TDs. There is no incentive to put units in tanks nor even to buy tanks, as the units do more damage once they're sufficiently upgraded. The map is won with a simple optimization equation:
((total dmg upgrades+1)*5 / 20 unit cost) > (# of units *5 / cost of upgrade) , build unit. Else save for upgrade.
Even with rough estimates, this is an easy map. Script a bot or conscript a toddler and afk for 30 minutes. Grats, you've won. There's really nothing else here. 3 unit types and 3 towers: 1 ground, 1 air, 1 both. Mix and match as you like. I was never even really sure what the conditions to lose were. One playthrough was enough for me.
Ultimate Tank Defense has been around longer and, consequently, has had more time to acquire polish. It shows. The older heroes are much better balanced than the new ones, and, though it's no epic, what's there makes sense. Units in tanks grant abilities and buffs to the tanks in addition to their own munitional contributions. Voila, reason to garrison them. Was that really so hard?
Ultimate Tank Defense is, however, by no means ultimate. It has a number of shortcomings which we hope shall be limited in future revisions. Certain new heroes *cough* Brutalisk *cough* tend to bring a lot more to the battlefield than others. Too, certain abilities granted by garrisoned units seem very weak. All that aside, the largest flaw this game suffers is horrendous performance. Framerates often dip and are drowned in single digits at around wave twelve. At that point, abilities can't be effectively used.
Conclusion:
With so many barebones TDs around, it's easy to forget what this genre has to offer. While it's not yet Burbenog, Ultimate Tank Defense would be worth playing even if its position on the list didn't force one to play it.
While we hold out in anticipation of later versions, Bunker Circle Defense feels like an alpha of Ultimate Tank Def. Look to it as proof of the custom map system's failings, but don't mistake it for diverting: it's a distraction at best.
Ratings:
Ultimate Tank D 6/10
Bunker Circle D 2/10