I played about 10 more times on my own. Obviously there's meant to be a team, so playing individual heroes alone isn't a good way to measure the game, but here are my thoughts:
I don't like the level 21 limit. As far as I can tell each level doesn't give you any innate bonuses, just an extra skill point. Skill points don't do nearly enough, unfortunately. 2 damage (probably not so bad), 20 hp (worthless), or 10 energy (useful at the start of the game to get an extra spell in or something, then useless later). You can pretty much get 10 levels worth of bonuses from rare items alone. You can have 8 rare items, and only 21 level points. If you don't increase the bonus, at least raise the level limit, possibly lowering the level xp requirements as well so you can at least generate your worthless points faster.
The marine seemed pretty well balanced. Unfortunately, as you'll see later, "pretty well balanced" means the computer is too hard and this guy is so overpowered he managed to overcome the difficulty. His spells are all low mana cost, but none of them have cooldown or a charge time like the Templar's nuke so he can spam them like crazy. He has a great dps skill, an amazing tanking skill that also does damage, a solid though slow aoe (the charge, I never really bothered using the mines since they appeared to be low damage), and a fairly worthless support skill. (Even inside the chrono rift my stats never changed, and neither did the stats of any enemies that I didn't kill almost immediately) Chrono Rift had a surprising use at the end of the game: King Wicker's projectiles got caught in it, letting me delay a lot of his damage for a really long time. Less useful if you're using the queen to tank for you, but still.
His ult is probably the best in the game, and by that I mean it sucks but is still usable. It does a small amount of damage in a large AOE immediately, but apparently lowers damage resistance after a while.
My best game I ended up with 4 Jaws of Whatever to give him huge damage, and I still couldn't beat Wicker. If I saved at the beginning of the attack and replayed, I bet 1 out of 10 times I could have done it. This is probably actually a good ratio to aim for, it makes the game very challenging without being impossible. However, the actual likelyhood I'd get 4 of the best attack item in the game again... not so good.
The Templar pretty much sucks. I'm pretty much going to be comparing everything he has to the Marine, since the Marine has everything he does and is so much better.
His main nuke does 220 base against most units, I think. Maybe 330? It also has a huge mana cost and a long channel time. The marine can throw down 3 of his aoe charges and get the same effect, damage after 5 seconds, except his splash damage is 100% instead of 60. He also gets to actually attack during this time.
His other AOE hits himself, which is pretty ridiculous. The Marine's charges never friendly fire, why should razor swarm? It does 240 damage over a long time, for its cost (80?) the marine can throw down 2 charges and get the same amount of damage much faster. If you really insist on it doing friendly fire, I'd say separate the Persistent data effect into one that targets enemies and one that targets allies, and have any spell damage boosters actually reduce the ally damage instead, so you actually friendly fire less the more you stack spell damage.
His shield spell is mostly worthless for the shield, just the speed boost. I'm guessing the Marine's turret has 500 hp, probably with armor. It costs 80. Templar's shield gives 220 shield, without armor, for 110. Both can be spammed, though, which is good for the Templar. If you're surrounded by zerglings, that 220 is going to go away real fast, whereas if you were down to hp your armor would have made you take only like 10 damage. Whenever he gains an armor bonus, maybe give him a shield bonus as well? Otherwise just flat-out increase the shields he gets.
Forcefield says it doesn't work on heroic or massive units. I figured everything else would be blocked but those units can go through. Nope, they just break it, making this a pretty useless spell. I'd change the massive/heroic units' collision types to not include the forcefield (unused 11 or something?) so they can just walk through it while other units get blocked. This might make it a really good spell, since large units press on while their tiny meatshields get left behind and can't tank small amounts of damage for them.
His ult is worthless. He's a sitting duck for 25 seconds. Enough said.
I found he did pretty well against the first two bosses, who have hp low enough that his main nuke can end them fairly quickly. Their low range and low dps also don't threaten the templar much. Once I got to the ARES, though, he could hit me from long range, and my nuke couldn't stop him quickly enough. Game ended quickly there.
I haven't used the DT much, though I expect he'd be better than templar but worse than marine.
He has an awkward nuke. It deals % damage, but doesn't work on the units with the highest hps. The heal is a nice touch, but if I'm poking big things I want to be cloaked, and not taking damage from them.
I think his cloak is the only ability in the game with a cooldown. I think all bosses are detectors, which kinda hurts his cloak too. Its not like it lasts long enough for you to really abuse anything.
He probably has the best aoe. It comes out much faster than the other 2 guys'. I'm not sure what the damage is on it, actually, but it seemed powerful.
His ult is pretty bad. I don't know how much the summons deal or anything. I assume its not very impressive.
Obviously, he's melee. This really, really sucks. He doesn't even have a decent amount of hp to use to tank.
As for non-hero issues:
When I die, sometimes I lose minerals, sometimes not. If I lose them early on, that 300 is huge, and I usually just ragequit and start another game by myself. I think the revive time is enough punishment.
The King's forces chasing you down while battling creeps is really annoying. I don't mind being attacked while travelling, or if I'm at a healing spot, but when I'm in a creep section, I don't like them coming behind me and messing up my attacks.
Solars cleave through bunkers, killing the units inside before the bunkers themselves die. Other units may do this too.
I don't like how King Wicker will just AOE all of your mercs and instakill them. Kinda lame if I actually try to use them rather than making a really badass hero all game without worrying about the little guys..
The heal stations are laughable. They're outside of bases, where you probably want them to be, and they heal for so little I'm probably better off dying right now so I can just revive with full hp.
What's wrong with the 1 damage to shield? Make a set that deals 1 damage and restores 1 shield. The damage validates that the target already has shields, otherwise doesn't work, so you're not affecting hp.
Look at existing minerals. They change model as their resource count falls. Instead of changing the model, though, you'd set the scale lower and lower.
Sure, its doable, but I've never seen anybody actually do it. Besides, triggers are the easy way out. How about you make the Spirit Link ability through data and persistent effects.
Here are some others to try:
Melee units that can attack while moving, so they can't be kited.
Dynamically altering terrain mid-game, more than just actors that don't actually affect the layout/function, only the look.
Some effect where you can temporarily use your opponents units without him knowing or losing control.
Try creating a game where you draft each race's units. So you could have zerglings at t1, marauders at t1.5, immortals at t2, etc. Your opponent might build marines at t1, roaches at t1.5, mutas at t2, and so on. Maybe not even restrict by tiers, so you can pick all 3 t1 units if your opponent is careless so he has no early defense.
Create a new way of harvesting resources.
Build a morale system
Units weaken based on damage
Find a clever way to make it look like there are more than 3 cliff levels.
Projectiles that can be shot down/intercepted.
In WC3 there was a skill called Spirit Link or something that split and shared damage among units.
In SC2 lots of people seem to want to make squad based maps.
Why not combine the two? Recreate WC3's spell, only share 100% of the damage instead of some fraction.
Create the same building with two different autocast morph abilities, with validators based on where it is placed.
Or, always create the normal weak cannon, and give it a single morph ability validating on if a mineral field is within range to turn it into the better cannon.
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@Pottfish:
I played about 10 more times on my own. Obviously there's meant to be a team, so playing individual heroes alone isn't a good way to measure the game, but here are my thoughts:
I don't like the level 21 limit. As far as I can tell each level doesn't give you any innate bonuses, just an extra skill point. Skill points don't do nearly enough, unfortunately. 2 damage (probably not so bad), 20 hp (worthless), or 10 energy (useful at the start of the game to get an extra spell in or something, then useless later). You can pretty much get 10 levels worth of bonuses from rare items alone. You can have 8 rare items, and only 21 level points. If you don't increase the bonus, at least raise the level limit, possibly lowering the level xp requirements as well so you can at least generate your worthless points faster.
The marine seemed pretty well balanced. Unfortunately, as you'll see later, "pretty well balanced" means the computer is too hard and this guy is so overpowered he managed to overcome the difficulty. His spells are all low mana cost, but none of them have cooldown or a charge time like the Templar's nuke so he can spam them like crazy. He has a great dps skill, an amazing tanking skill that also does damage, a solid though slow aoe (the charge, I never really bothered using the mines since they appeared to be low damage), and a fairly worthless support skill. (Even inside the chrono rift my stats never changed, and neither did the stats of any enemies that I didn't kill almost immediately) Chrono Rift had a surprising use at the end of the game: King Wicker's projectiles got caught in it, letting me delay a lot of his damage for a really long time. Less useful if you're using the queen to tank for you, but still.
His ult is probably the best in the game, and by that I mean it sucks but is still usable. It does a small amount of damage in a large AOE immediately, but apparently lowers damage resistance after a while.
My best game I ended up with 4 Jaws of Whatever to give him huge damage, and I still couldn't beat Wicker. If I saved at the beginning of the attack and replayed, I bet 1 out of 10 times I could have done it. This is probably actually a good ratio to aim for, it makes the game very challenging without being impossible. However, the actual likelyhood I'd get 4 of the best attack item in the game again... not so good.
The Templar pretty much sucks. I'm pretty much going to be comparing everything he has to the Marine, since the Marine has everything he does and is so much better.
His main nuke does 220 base against most units, I think. Maybe 330? It also has a huge mana cost and a long channel time. The marine can throw down 3 of his aoe charges and get the same effect, damage after 5 seconds, except his splash damage is 100% instead of 60. He also gets to actually attack during this time.
His other AOE hits himself, which is pretty ridiculous. The Marine's charges never friendly fire, why should razor swarm? It does 240 damage over a long time, for its cost (80?) the marine can throw down 2 charges and get the same amount of damage much faster. If you really insist on it doing friendly fire, I'd say separate the Persistent data effect into one that targets enemies and one that targets allies, and have any spell damage boosters actually reduce the ally damage instead, so you actually friendly fire less the more you stack spell damage.
His shield spell is mostly worthless for the shield, just the speed boost. I'm guessing the Marine's turret has 500 hp, probably with armor. It costs 80. Templar's shield gives 220 shield, without armor, for 110. Both can be spammed, though, which is good for the Templar. If you're surrounded by zerglings, that 220 is going to go away real fast, whereas if you were down to hp your armor would have made you take only like 10 damage. Whenever he gains an armor bonus, maybe give him a shield bonus as well? Otherwise just flat-out increase the shields he gets.
Forcefield says it doesn't work on heroic or massive units. I figured everything else would be blocked but those units can go through. Nope, they just break it, making this a pretty useless spell. I'd change the massive/heroic units' collision types to not include the forcefield (unused 11 or something?) so they can just walk through it while other units get blocked. This might make it a really good spell, since large units press on while their tiny meatshields get left behind and can't tank small amounts of damage for them.
His ult is worthless. He's a sitting duck for 25 seconds. Enough said.
I found he did pretty well against the first two bosses, who have hp low enough that his main nuke can end them fairly quickly. Their low range and low dps also don't threaten the templar much. Once I got to the ARES, though, he could hit me from long range, and my nuke couldn't stop him quickly enough. Game ended quickly there.
I haven't used the DT much, though I expect he'd be better than templar but worse than marine.
He has an awkward nuke. It deals % damage, but doesn't work on the units with the highest hps. The heal is a nice touch, but if I'm poking big things I want to be cloaked, and not taking damage from them.
I think his cloak is the only ability in the game with a cooldown. I think all bosses are detectors, which kinda hurts his cloak too. Its not like it lasts long enough for you to really abuse anything.
He probably has the best aoe. It comes out much faster than the other 2 guys'. I'm not sure what the damage is on it, actually, but it seemed powerful.
His ult is pretty bad. I don't know how much the summons deal or anything. I assume its not very impressive.
Obviously, he's melee. This really, really sucks. He doesn't even have a decent amount of hp to use to tank.
As for non-hero issues:
When I die, sometimes I lose minerals, sometimes not. If I lose them early on, that 300 is huge, and I usually just ragequit and start another game by myself. I think the revive time is enough punishment.
The King's forces chasing you down while battling creeps is really annoying. I don't mind being attacked while travelling, or if I'm at a healing spot, but when I'm in a creep section, I don't like them coming behind me and messing up my attacks.
Solars cleave through bunkers, killing the units inside before the bunkers themselves die. Other units may do this too.
I don't like how King Wicker will just AOE all of your mercs and instakill them. Kinda lame if I actually try to use them rather than making a really badass hero all game without worrying about the little guys..
The heal stations are laughable. They're outside of bases, where you probably want them to be, and they heal for so little I'm probably better off dying right now so I can just revive with full hp.
Okay, I spent way too long typing this. Have fun.
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I tried playing this alone, it was fairly cool though obviously I died pretty quickly with 1 hero defending 3 bases.
Anybody want to plan out a time to play this as a group?
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What's wrong with the 1 damage to shield? Make a set that deals 1 damage and restores 1 shield. The damage validates that the target already has shields, otherwise doesn't work, so you're not affecting hp.
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@Khalanil1:
Broodlord hangar.
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Create an invisible (read: no model) unit right on top of the pseudo-detector that will move along with it.
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Look at existing minerals. They change model as their resource count falls. Instead of changing the model, though, you'd set the scale lower and lower.
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Its been done in WC3, almost a straight conversion, a couple of times, and no version was terribly popular.
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If you only ever upgrade attack, and only ever have 1 upgrade building, give the building a queue of 1 instead of 5.
Otherwise, you need to make several different upgrades, each with their own requirements.
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Sure, its doable, but I've never seen anybody actually do it. Besides, triggers are the easy way out. How about you make the Spirit Link ability through data and persistent effects.
Here are some others to try:
Melee units that can attack while moving, so they can't be kited.
Dynamically altering terrain mid-game, more than just actors that don't actually affect the layout/function, only the look.
Some effect where you can temporarily use your opponents units without him knowing or losing control.
Try creating a game where you draft each race's units. So you could have zerglings at t1, marauders at t1.5, immortals at t2, etc. Your opponent might build marines at t1, roaches at t1.5, mutas at t2, and so on. Maybe not even restrict by tiers, so you can pick all 3 t1 units if your opponent is careless so he has no early defense.
Create a new way of harvesting resources.
Build a morale system
Units weaken based on damage
Find a clever way to make it look like there are more than 3 cliff levels.
Projectiles that can be shot down/intercepted.
0
In WC3 there was a skill called Spirit Link or something that split and shared damage among units.
In SC2 lots of people seem to want to make squad based maps.
Why not combine the two? Recreate WC3's spell, only share 100% of the damage instead of some fraction.
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My first thought is that your weapon activates on equip, but you have it set to just being carried or whatever.
I couldn't understand much of anything you said about potions, though.
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@Vexal:
I don't understand.
You want to be able to give it to neutral? Have you tried that? Neutral is the only way shops work. Otherwise it gives the problems you're describing.
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Create the same building with two different autocast morph abilities, with validators based on where it is placed.
Or, always create the normal weak cannon, and give it a single morph ability validating on if a mineral field is within range to turn it into the better cannon.
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Were you basing it off a zerg unit?
Try basing it off a terran unit like a siege tank instead. Zerg units heal when they morph.
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You should be able to check a flag in the trigger saying (Ignore Placement Requirements) or something.