The main emphasis can be fog of war, and long distance engagements using artillery and cannons.
Your main ship has small visibility, but you can build smaller ships, cruisers and such, to scout for you.
You can also deploy radar which, enables you to detect cloaked units, basically submarines or the likes, and marks them on the map or on the screen as their 'last known position', every 3 seconds.
The main idea with attacking, is that you NEVER once auto attack, or target ships with abilities. All attacks are area based point of effect, hence you shoot rounds at that point, it'll fly over there after a few seconds of flight time.
Gameplay isn't very long really, both sides would generally play 'invisible chess' in a sense to hide their battleships, but launch scouting tactics to gain insight on each other's unit's location.
I could go very far in expanding this idea, and would like to build this map myself, but I don't have the skills as I don't dabble much in SC2 Map editor.
Or maps that takes advantage of the new stuff in HoTS?
I was thinking of making a Battleship kind of map, not like Star Battle as it's too DotA-ish with leveling.
I wonder what it would take to make a skill based 'battleship' map with you being blind, but need to use smaller crafts to scout an area, to make guesses then to bombard enemy locations.
This means:
The main unit a player controls is a Battleship, it has low visibility and has various guns for various distances or engagements.
For instance, a 88mm Flak Cannon for anti-air capability, it fires a 'siege tank' kind of rounds into the sky, causing explosion in a wide area that only hits air units, but none of the gun system in the game ever locks onto targets, the player must manually fire rounds at specific areas.
So when you fire the Flak Cannon, I would guess that instead of a single shot doing AoE damage in an area, it instead fires multiple tiny cluster projectiles that explodes in a random area, inflicting HIGH damage if you get lucky and it lands where the air unit is.
I'd probably need some math and scripting to get this to work, basically it could be an ability that picks a coordinate, then randomly causes 'effects' in a coordinated randomization.
If the center of the circle is (0,0), then it has a radius of 20 and random explosions will go off within -20,-20 to 20,20 over time when this ability is used.
The main idea is that damage can be lethal and most likely cause additional status condition to go off maybe if the Battleship has various stats that governs it. But at this point it'd be too complex for my current skill level.
I tried making a test sample of this earlier, but all it does is make a battlecruiser a ground unit, shoots slow shots at long distance targets (150 distance), but the thing I DON'T want it to do is fire instant hitting rounds, I want it to fly to the target point, not hit as soon as the caster shoots it.
Maybe replace the 'structure' building spells with something more workable...
Like a 'AI' builder spell that makes a rapid 'hive' or base that constantly spawns units and attacks other players?
What about boomerang type spells that can be shot, and it will fly back to the user?
Then you can apply various attributes to the boomerang to do different effects...
Like a Fire Boomerang will burn all targets in it's path, when the flight goes to and returns to the user. Lava based version may leave behind a fire trail (dmg over time)?
Ice type will slow and inflict ice damage to all targets in it's path, and Blizzard based will leave a trail of ice that continuously slows and inflict damage over time, but less damage than fire/lava.
Lightning/Thunder types can be fast, and chains to multiple targets as it flies near them... With thunder having a wider scope of AoE with the chaining.
If you can add stuff like gravity or gravitational pull to it, it can be pretty neat in pulling opponents to you...
So yes, instead of using a few base spell types with various effects, try to balance the number of spell types to the numbers of effects...
Single shot to Spread Shots are common, so I suggest:
- Orbs that can be tossed and rolled around like physics, and it blows up to inflict the effect afterwards. Gravitational effect pushes opponents.
- Trails that when used inflicts effects on targets on them.
- Intelligent Bolts that tries to home into a target but the turning curve is very steep so it can't be used effectively if the opponent moves away too far, but handy with certain effects.
- Invisible orbs that shoots slower and basically looks like a transparent 95% bolt, very hard to see.
- Spray spell types if you didn't have done so already, where you spray a large number of effects at once.
- debuffing spells that cancels other spells that collides with it.
Anything with simply 'triggers' and edited 'data' files and a few custom sound files wouldn't suffice for a 'sell-able' map/mod...
If you want to sell one, you have to at least have 75% of the content to be custom made, and that includes galaxy codes (meaning real programming) instead of triggers and imported content from 3d model editors and such.
Meaning if you truly want to sell your game, learn game design to make a 'actual game', not a mod, not a map, but the idea that it 80% feels like a 'actual indie game'.
And 'real efforts' isn't spending 1000 hours on a map, where you simply adjust, balance, and tweak stuff, no.
Real effort is in creating custom sfx, music, custom tilesets, custom models and animations, and custom codes that changes how SC2 plays entirely (like 95% not like a RTS or a 'faked' game type).
Most of the Third person shooters, side scrollers, and the likes are 'faked' into the RTS game hence it ends up having awfully bad optimization for key latency and the likes.
Once someone actually put a 'true effort' into making a mod or content that turns SC2 into a actual FPS with HUD, GUI, v_models, and first person animations etc. Then you would have a 'game'.
^That, is my expectation, because modders in the mod industry can do it, quite easily sometimes, why are mappers for SC2 slacking off?
When you force yourself to learn and adapt to the level of a 'standard map editing' software, you essentially dumb down the quality of the possible output of the map since you hold and limit yourself to the limitations of the software itself.
also, how did they mix up tilesets in hero attack?
They probably extracted them all from each files and placed em into a custom tileset?
Then again, when HoTS comes out, they might not do it and mix up the HoTS content tilesets so WoL users can use it...
Blizzard would ban any maps that has HoTS content and is playable on both games...
-.-
Hopefully the community being full of 12 year olds would know what copyright and trademark infringement is.
And that's not the least of your problem, imagine people calling out 'plagiarism' on each other when their game is 'similar' to each other...
It turns into a game of 'Blizzard bans whom's map'.
That's basically what Blizzard wants to do, get the mapping community to help it net some extra income.
This also lets Blizzard sell it's own 'DLCs' which can come in forms of campaigns or some other kind of 'extras' of SC2.
While the general idea 'doesn't seem bad', the results is more likely not as good as you would think.
When incorporating new systems, the publisher has to constantly maintain control over it, especially if players can use and put stuff on it.
Make a slower pace, long term, survival game that doesn't bore you mid or end game.
Seriously, if you can create a survival map that doesn't get boring or laggy end game, then you win.
1 Idea:
Nuclear Survivor
The world is a post-apocalyptic world.
Nuclear radiation litters the world like ponds, creating dangers everywhere.
Mutants exists everywhere, STALKER style.
Survivors have to try to survive day by day by relying on food, resources, and wits.
There's guns involved, but there's also ammunition system to make it interesting. Combat seems a little slow, but it brings out the suspense of dying since you gotta make smart use of your items. Items becomes vital as all and any items collected has a important use somewhere.
Oh and PVP is always on, but killing other players won't guarantee you will survive either.
Edit: Actually be sure you didn't change any of the editor's setting because I simply did the same thing in the editor, chose merc compound and placed it and it ain't invisible.
Because making a game from scratch and selling it is more reasonable than making a mod for a game and then selling it.
Do you ever wonder why Blizzard takes ages to consider and balance the whole idea of map marketplace? While it is typically new, all it does is pushes SC2 into the whole DLC era and a lot of consumers (mostly veteran PC gamers) on the PC market really hates that idea.
On a console it is fine and all... You can't really mod your game yourself you know...
On a PC though, it becomes a WHOLE different level.
Why would you get pissed? If you don't have money that's too bad. You don't have $100 you cant get collector's edition of SC2. Why should Blizzard be sorry about you and reduce the price? No such thing. I/mappers never force you to pay us $1 or $4.99. Never. Stop telling us what to do.
Funny you mention Karma. You don't have money. Heck yeah Karma's a bitch. Maybe your parents did something bad back then. There goes Karma, now u r homeless and poor, dont even have 99c to buy map...
I never said I was pissed.
The thing is, your replies is more childish than ever.
While you don't have to listen to me, you obviously reacted in a emotional way, and seems to be the only person too.
I don't take this thing personally, I'm just telling you guys that things won't always work out the way you think it does, and I've seen a lot of games getting bad rep for attempting to profit before they even finish developing. Cortex Command really really enraged their playerbase. Why? Because the developer was intentionally delaying the updates and development TO MAKE customers buy the game, by misleading them to think that it will get more expensive once it's down... And they only updated twice... LAST YEAR!
I mean are you gotta sell the map and then provide updates for them? What if the updates for the map gets cut off at some point because you can't physically update or work on it for some reason?
When you put a game up for sale, you literally is selling out a bit of yourself to others as a service or merchandise and customers has the right to judge how you would look like too...
The main problem here is your attitude in the whole thing, you are talking like you've made indie games before.
Also, the problem isn't forcing players or customer to buy it, it's not even about the price line, it's YOUR credibility as a developer/mapper/modder on the line here, not the product.
And I know developers who has to make a living to live, the developers of Project Zomboid is one of them, but they at least have the incentive to be more professional about it than you.
EDIT: Angry Birds is a flash game made for the PC first, then incorporated into the Android Platform to sell along with the iPhone platforms and you get the picture. I'm talking about maps, or essentially 'games/mods' that you are creating within a already developed game.
You are recycling parts of SC2 into the game and selling it, that includes some of the vital RTS systems, even if you do use your own contents. In a sense, you are making 'expansion packs' for SC2 since it still requires SC2 to play it, meaning you gotta own SC2 first and then buy this mod or map for it.
Angry Birds is a whole indie game so comparing it is quite irrelevant.
These things I'm suggesting is expected to be like 10x greater in size in triggers and anything else, bigger than the mods and maps you can currently get in SC2!
I'm thinking actual huge game sizes, not minigames and the likes that I see way too common.
Mappers needs to think bigger, badder, and have a larger motivation to create something huge.
The Map Arcade will be quite important for this, because you want your map to stand out from the bunch, but you also need to solidify your 'ratings' as a mapper first before attempting to sell them, and even then, you don't really want to make every single map afterwards a 'premium' paid map.
You can use these 'boundary' cut outs to separate game areas, and its used common when making map selection...
What if you can use that in a huge game instead? Offering optimized rendering size (so your big ass game doesn't lag everyone who has less than decent pc) and special triggers to spawn the units into the map when needed.
This is smart development, and isn't easy, it is hardcore and very nasty for the average mapper. It involves you planning ahead to every single region and spawns for structures, players, and such, and developing a system that handles the spawning so the game doesn't end up using too many resources, and when boundary changes, the rendering will be cut so resources still aren't used when you don't even see them!
I'm saying, quit being a mapper, and actually develop games! Don't look at a SC2 mapper as your 'greatest achievement' look further and try to actually be a real game developer.
That is what Blizzard wants out of it's community, actual developments of actual games thanks to maps starting them off to a good start.
My friend is developing a isometric mmo using C#, and he originally got into mapping games before getting into programming. It's quite important to never stop at one skills just because you are a mapper and not a real developer, because that same skill is quite handy in other roles too.
I'm not a great programmer, I can't draw very well, or solve or come up with awesome logics, but I do like to be creative in what I do and mix and match my ideas to make new ones. In SC2's case I can't terrain well because of the level of details needed and the skills to use the editor properly (or the PC that don't lag and crash and make you hate it), but I did use the SC1 trigger editor and such to start off years back. The complexity seems a bit out of reach for me but that doesn't mean I can't do anything. I seem to be a awesome analyst for games and can easily figure out the pros and cons, the balance and the imba, and the likes... Basically I'm better at playing and testing games than actually making em.
If everyone's like you, sooner or later, developers will die hungry.
I bet you don't have smartphone eh? ohhh!! You jailbreak/root your phone, hence pirate all those apps? I bet your PC has all those torrents actively downloading. Man we don't need cheapo like you. You're nothing but a cancer to developers/programmer.
What about this, Why don't you make a great map then release it for free for us?? Would you do that? Answer this. I challenge you. Make a map, spend thousands of hours until it's good enough, then release it for free. If you're able to do that, I'll follow your path.
Oh right, you can't cos you know nothing about development you parasite. You should be ashamed of yourself.
If you are a smart bastard who goes to school and graduates from college, you would have financial support because you are able to get a job.
The real world really is "Why should I pay you for what you offer" and the real world really is cruel to such developers.
Grow up.
People want to know the value of what they are buying, BEFORE they buy it.
They would want to know if it's already offered for free somewhere else, and if there's other ways to get it for free first. This is a natural way of thinking and you know that, deep down inside that people will consider testing free stuff before buying ANYTHING on the marketplace.
SC2 Marketplace will likely also be full of plagiarism, so no one will buy because of the fear of loss of money over something that can be free (they don't care if its legit or not).
0
Battleship - Lethal scout and destroy style.
The main emphasis can be fog of war, and long distance engagements using artillery and cannons.
Your main ship has small visibility, but you can build smaller ships, cruisers and such, to scout for you.
You can also deploy radar which, enables you to detect cloaked units, basically submarines or the likes, and marks them on the map or on the screen as their 'last known position', every 3 seconds.
The main idea with attacking, is that you NEVER once auto attack, or target ships with abilities. All attacks are area based point of effect, hence you shoot rounds at that point, it'll fly over there after a few seconds of flight time.
Gameplay isn't very long really, both sides would generally play 'invisible chess' in a sense to hide their battleships, but launch scouting tactics to gain insight on each other's unit's location.
I could go very far in expanding this idea, and would like to build this map myself, but I don't have the skills as I don't dabble much in SC2 Map editor.
0
Or maps that takes advantage of the new stuff in HoTS?
I was thinking of making a Battleship kind of map, not like Star Battle as it's too DotA-ish with leveling.
I wonder what it would take to make a skill based 'battleship' map with you being blind, but need to use smaller crafts to scout an area, to make guesses then to bombard enemy locations.
This means:
The main unit a player controls is a Battleship, it has low visibility and has various guns for various distances or engagements. For instance, a 88mm Flak Cannon for anti-air capability, it fires a 'siege tank' kind of rounds into the sky, causing explosion in a wide area that only hits air units, but none of the gun system in the game ever locks onto targets, the player must manually fire rounds at specific areas.
So when you fire the Flak Cannon, I would guess that instead of a single shot doing AoE damage in an area, it instead fires multiple tiny cluster projectiles that explodes in a random area, inflicting HIGH damage if you get lucky and it lands where the air unit is.
I'd probably need some math and scripting to get this to work, basically it could be an ability that picks a coordinate, then randomly causes 'effects' in a coordinated randomization.
If the center of the circle is (0,0), then it has a radius of 20 and random explosions will go off within -20,-20 to 20,20 over time when this ability is used.
The main idea is that damage can be lethal and most likely cause additional status condition to go off maybe if the Battleship has various stats that governs it. But at this point it'd be too complex for my current skill level.
I tried making a test sample of this earlier, but all it does is make a battlecruiser a ground unit, shoots slow shots at long distance targets (150 distance), but the thing I DON'T want it to do is fire instant hitting rounds, I want it to fly to the target point, not hit as soon as the caster shoots it.
0
Maybe replace the 'structure' building spells with something more workable...
Like a 'AI' builder spell that makes a rapid 'hive' or base that constantly spawns units and attacks other players?
What about boomerang type spells that can be shot, and it will fly back to the user?
Then you can apply various attributes to the boomerang to do different effects...
Like a Fire Boomerang will burn all targets in it's path, when the flight goes to and returns to the user. Lava based version may leave behind a fire trail (dmg over time)? Ice type will slow and inflict ice damage to all targets in it's path, and Blizzard based will leave a trail of ice that continuously slows and inflict damage over time, but less damage than fire/lava.
Lightning/Thunder types can be fast, and chains to multiple targets as it flies near them... With thunder having a wider scope of AoE with the chaining.
If you can add stuff like gravity or gravitational pull to it, it can be pretty neat in pulling opponents to you...
So yes, instead of using a few base spell types with various effects, try to balance the number of spell types to the numbers of effects...
Single shot to Spread Shots are common, so I suggest:
- Orbs that can be tossed and rolled around like physics, and it blows up to inflict the effect afterwards. Gravitational effect pushes opponents.
- Trails that when used inflicts effects on targets on them.
- Intelligent Bolts that tries to home into a target but the turning curve is very steep so it can't be used effectively if the opponent moves away too far, but handy with certain effects.
- Invisible orbs that shoots slower and basically looks like a transparent 95% bolt, very hard to see.
- Spray spell types if you didn't have done so already, where you spray a large number of effects at once.
- debuffing spells that cancels other spells that collides with it.
0
Anything with simply 'triggers' and edited 'data' files and a few custom sound files wouldn't suffice for a 'sell-able' map/mod... If you want to sell one, you have to at least have 75% of the content to be custom made, and that includes galaxy codes (meaning real programming) instead of triggers and imported content from 3d model editors and such.
Meaning if you truly want to sell your game, learn game design to make a 'actual game', not a mod, not a map, but the idea that it 80% feels like a 'actual indie game'.
And 'real efforts' isn't spending 1000 hours on a map, where you simply adjust, balance, and tweak stuff, no. Real effort is in creating custom sfx, music, custom tilesets, custom models and animations, and custom codes that changes how SC2 plays entirely (like 95% not like a RTS or a 'faked' game type).
Most of the Third person shooters, side scrollers, and the likes are 'faked' into the RTS game hence it ends up having awfully bad optimization for key latency and the likes.
Once someone actually put a 'true effort' into making a mod or content that turns SC2 into a actual FPS with HUD, GUI, v_models, and first person animations etc. Then you would have a 'game'.
^That, is my expectation, because modders in the mod industry can do it, quite easily sometimes, why are mappers for SC2 slacking off?
When you force yourself to learn and adapt to the level of a 'standard map editing' software, you essentially dumb down the quality of the possible output of the map since you hold and limit yourself to the limitations of the software itself.
0
They probably extracted them all from each files and placed em into a custom tileset? Then again, when HoTS comes out, they might not do it and mix up the HoTS content tilesets so WoL users can use it... Blizzard would ban any maps that has HoTS content and is playable on both games... -.-
0
@dra6o0n: Go
Hopefully the community being full of 12 year olds would know what copyright and trademark infringement is.
And that's not the least of your problem, imagine people calling out 'plagiarism' on each other when their game is 'similar' to each other... It turns into a game of 'Blizzard bans whom's map'.
0
@thepumaman1: Go
That's basically what Blizzard wants to do, get the mapping community to help it net some extra income. This also lets Blizzard sell it's own 'DLCs' which can come in forms of campaigns or some other kind of 'extras' of SC2.
While the general idea 'doesn't seem bad', the results is more likely not as good as you would think. When incorporating new systems, the publisher has to constantly maintain control over it, especially if players can use and put stuff on it.
0
Make a slower pace, long term, survival game that doesn't bore you mid or end game.
Seriously, if you can create a survival map that doesn't get boring or laggy end game, then you win.
1 Idea:
Nuclear Survivor
The world is a post-apocalyptic world. Nuclear radiation litters the world like ponds, creating dangers everywhere. Mutants exists everywhere, STALKER style. Survivors have to try to survive day by day by relying on food, resources, and wits.
There's guns involved, but there's also ammunition system to make it interesting. Combat seems a little slow, but it brings out the suspense of dying since you gotta make smart use of your items. Items becomes vital as all and any items collected has a important use somewhere.
Oh and PVP is always on, but killing other players won't guarantee you will survive either.
0
You really want to make a dota?
You really want to make unique to the point it's not dota?
Make a 4 faction all out war on 4 points of the map. Make it a 3v3v3v3.
Then whenever a team gets destroyed the losers joins the other teams randomly with 1 random player per team. A 4v4v4.
When another player gets destroyed, the losers join but to balance out the player count per team again, thus becomes a 6v6.
Winner ends up assimilating everything else.
0
Just don't rip the content from the dependencies into a custom dependency for the WoL players, because Blizzard would ban the map...
0
Edit: Actually be sure you didn't change any of the editor's setting because I simply did the same thing in the editor, chose merc compound and placed it and it ain't invisible.
You got rendering issues.
Maybe configure the editor's graphics?
0
Because making a game from scratch and selling it is more reasonable than making a mod for a game and then selling it.
Do you ever wonder why Blizzard takes ages to consider and balance the whole idea of map marketplace? While it is typically new, all it does is pushes SC2 into the whole DLC era and a lot of consumers (mostly veteran PC gamers) on the PC market really hates that idea.
On a console it is fine and all... You can't really mod your game yourself you know...
On a PC though, it becomes a WHOLE different level.
0
I never said I was pissed.
The thing is, your replies is more childish than ever. While you don't have to listen to me, you obviously reacted in a emotional way, and seems to be the only person too.
I don't take this thing personally, I'm just telling you guys that things won't always work out the way you think it does, and I've seen a lot of games getting bad rep for attempting to profit before they even finish developing. Cortex Command really really enraged their playerbase. Why? Because the developer was intentionally delaying the updates and development TO MAKE customers buy the game, by misleading them to think that it will get more expensive once it's down... And they only updated twice... LAST YEAR!
I mean are you gotta sell the map and then provide updates for them? What if the updates for the map gets cut off at some point because you can't physically update or work on it for some reason?
When you put a game up for sale, you literally is selling out a bit of yourself to others as a service or merchandise and customers has the right to judge how you would look like too...
The main problem here is your attitude in the whole thing, you are talking like you've made indie games before.
Also, the problem isn't forcing players or customer to buy it, it's not even about the price line, it's YOUR credibility as a developer/mapper/modder on the line here, not the product.
And I know developers who has to make a living to live, the developers of Project Zomboid is one of them, but they at least have the incentive to be more professional about it than you.
EDIT: Angry Birds is a flash game made for the PC first, then incorporated into the Android Platform to sell along with the iPhone platforms and you get the picture. I'm talking about maps, or essentially 'games/mods' that you are creating within a already developed game.
You are recycling parts of SC2 into the game and selling it, that includes some of the vital RTS systems, even if you do use your own contents. In a sense, you are making 'expansion packs' for SC2 since it still requires SC2 to play it, meaning you gotta own SC2 first and then buy this mod or map for it.
Angry Birds is a whole indie game so comparing it is quite irrelevant.
0
These things I'm suggesting is expected to be like 10x greater in size in triggers and anything else, bigger than the mods and maps you can currently get in SC2!
I'm thinking actual huge game sizes, not minigames and the likes that I see way too common.
Mappers needs to think bigger, badder, and have a larger motivation to create something huge.
The Map Arcade will be quite important for this, because you want your map to stand out from the bunch, but you also need to solidify your 'ratings' as a mapper first before attempting to sell them, and even then, you don't really want to make every single map afterwards a 'premium' paid map.
You can use these 'boundary' cut outs to separate game areas, and its used common when making map selection...
What if you can use that in a huge game instead? Offering optimized rendering size (so your big ass game doesn't lag everyone who has less than decent pc) and special triggers to spawn the units into the map when needed.
This is smart development, and isn't easy, it is hardcore and very nasty for the average mapper. It involves you planning ahead to every single region and spawns for structures, players, and such, and developing a system that handles the spawning so the game doesn't end up using too many resources, and when boundary changes, the rendering will be cut so resources still aren't used when you don't even see them!
I'm saying, quit being a mapper, and actually develop games! Don't look at a SC2 mapper as your 'greatest achievement' look further and try to actually be a real game developer.
That is what Blizzard wants out of it's community, actual developments of actual games thanks to maps starting them off to a good start.
My friend is developing a isometric mmo using C#, and he originally got into mapping games before getting into programming. It's quite important to never stop at one skills just because you are a mapper and not a real developer, because that same skill is quite handy in other roles too.
I'm not a great programmer, I can't draw very well, or solve or come up with awesome logics, but I do like to be creative in what I do and mix and match my ideas to make new ones. In SC2's case I can't terrain well because of the level of details needed and the skills to use the editor properly (or the PC that don't lag and crash and make you hate it), but I did use the SC1 trigger editor and such to start off years back. The complexity seems a bit out of reach for me but that doesn't mean I can't do anything. I seem to be a awesome analyst for games and can easily figure out the pros and cons, the balance and the imba, and the likes... Basically I'm better at playing and testing games than actually making em.
0
If you are a smart bastard who goes to school and graduates from college, you would have financial support because you are able to get a job. The real world really is "Why should I pay you for what you offer" and the real world really is cruel to such developers.
Grow up.
People want to know the value of what they are buying, BEFORE they buy it. They would want to know if it's already offered for free somewhere else, and if there's other ways to get it for free first. This is a natural way of thinking and you know that, deep down inside that people will consider testing free stuff before buying ANYTHING on the marketplace.
SC2 Marketplace will likely also be full of plagiarism, so no one will buy because of the fear of loss of money over something that can be free (they don't care if its legit or not).