With all this talk about how much the popularity system sucks, no one has ever mentioned that hosts in WC3 were never afk. Why? Because to stay at the top of the list ("page 1"), they had to constantly close and open slots in the game. Just thought I'd throw that out there to anyone who has ever joined a game, gotten it half/three quarters full, and then realized the host was afk.
Thanks, I'm looking into it now, but one line really confused me. What does this mean?
"The damage effect has a validator of the Unit Compare Behavior Count variety that counts the number of counter buff stacks on the caster to make sure it is below the units damaged per shockwave cap."
Does it mean there is a maximum number of units that can be damaged by the shockwave?
I don't see why you need to remove popular maps. If it is a cyclic list and they only take up one spot (because we aren't switching to named lobbies), it doesn't matter.
Alright. The issue isnt whether 1/2/3 are prequels, it is what order they should be watched in. Prequels almost always should be watched after the original series because they rely on knowledge gained in the original series and are designed to invoke emotions in people who have seen the original series. Not to mention the whole Darth Vader-Luke thing and Leah-Luke thing would be ruined...
Heres an example, seeing Yoda do backflips while kicking ass with a lightsaber? Not so awesome if you havent seen him old and frail in the original series.
Only ever played Dark Messiah's demo, but it seemed to be a very good system (swords actually hit eachother, blade locks, disarming, very low actual health, etc.). Too bad the game itself looked pretty mediocre. I wish they had put that system in Oblivion (which just sucked).
Anyone questioning replay value obviously didn't enjoy Minecraft. While the games are very different, the kind of activity they give you is very similar (Minecraft = legos, Dust = sand castles).
I think a simple cyclic list of currently hosted games as the default tab with all the other tabs in place would work wonders. If you wanted to host a game, you could go to popular, up and coming, or fun or not, but if you were the usual drivel you would just join a currently hosted game.
The issue with fun or not is that the default tab people see is still the popularity list (never underestimate how lazy people are). And I don't think people would appreciate fun or not being the default tab.
As to why the same maps keep going to page one (even after being sent down by blizzard), its because people went "I only ever play Nexus Wars, but I guess I'll try something new after a couple games of Nexus Wars." Hence, Nexus Wars gets played more. Then they see that Nexus Wars is back at the top and only ever play Nexus Wars. It takes a long time to break people out of their normal habits. The best result would of course be them trying something new occasionally, and then more and more frequently. Because all the page 1 games go back to page one, the second step never happens.
I'm assuming thats a bash on the fact that after NINE YEARS the only map that has survived on WC3 is DotA? It wasn't always like that you know, only once everyone who wasn't a diehard DotA fan left the game because it was SO FRICKING OLD.
I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't hate the current system doesn't play custom maps very often. Its the same as someone going to a theme park for 30 minutes and then telling everyone to stop complaining that it only has one ride. Even if it is a fairly decent ride, the fact is that after a couple rides it gets pretty boring... Yet after going for half an hour and riding the ride once, you would have no complaints!
Replayability (the only reason I'll ever buy a game) is complete shit.
And you don't need to tell me why a game isn't on page one. I can understand why Cat N Mouse will never be on page one. What I can't understand is why half the time there is no one playing it (even though if I were playing WC3, I could get a lobby of it to fill in seconds with people who would love the game).
Edit:
To those who say they don't want to see crap makes pop up in any other sort of system (besides popularity), I understand its scary to try new things, but if you want to play on the jungle gym you have to be ready to scrape your knee every once in a while.
I think it is because it is so much simpler to do detection for squares aligned with the grid (a simple X<Y<Z) and for circles (a simple distance calculation).
Edit: and if you were wondering about ovals, that is simply an ellipse (where you modify the distance formula to favor one side or the other). I wonder why they don't use other curvatures though, as those are pretty easy to do if you have done much linear algebra.
My point is that "triggering ..." is not overwritten (as proven by HuggetSukker's tests), as it is individual to each instance of a trigger (whereas global variables are not) and that if you use the run trigger action, you can still use "triggering ..." in the trigger being run. This means "triggering ..." is neither strictly local nor strictly global. In light of those two facts, I don't see why it would be unsafe to use it (the only possibility being a limit to the number of "triggering ..."s available at a time, but that would just be stupid design).
@HuggetSukker
Another test to run would be:
Event
Any unit is selected by player any player
Actions
Run trigger next trigger
Event
Actions
Wait 5.0 game time seconds
Kill (Triggering Unit)
Just to show that it is safe even after "run trigger"
Ender is the main character of Orson Scott Card's book, Ender's Game, training to be a military commander (in space). Part of his training is competing in the Battleroom, a large, null G room with a few cubes (or "stars") floating in it to provide cover. Two armies of forty people each enter on opposite sides of the room, then proceed to fire their light guns (which have both a sniper and a shotgun mode, and overheat) at eachother. When hit with a lightbeam for more than a split second, the movement amplifying suit they are wearing freezes in that location, limiting the ability to fight and ultimately stopping the wearer from moving at all. Victory is traditionally thought of as disabling all enemies and then completing the "victory ritual" of getting 5 people to the enemies entrance (or "gate"), but technically can be completed without disabling all enemy soldiers.
How is This a Map?
While it is impossible to make the game operate in three dimensions, an open area with square cliffs rising up serves well as the battleroom. As for movement, whenever the player's unit gets too far away from a wall (either of the room or of one of the stars), he kicks off the wall and floats through the air at high speed, until he collides with another wall. Combat is a simple top down shooter, using either a sniper skill (that deals low damage but travels a long way) or a shotgun skill (that deals high damage, but has limited range). Victory conditions could be set as either deathmatch or victory ritual (with a changeable required number of players completing the ritual).
How is it Unique?
The issue with top down shooters is lag and the insistence on using WASD movement. My map not only slows down combat considerably (by using energy to fire the gun), but with the null G movement, reduces the twitch reliance and virtually eliminates the annoyance of lag. Despite all this "slowing down" and "simplification", it will still be a fun, challenging, and tactical game. Shots fired don't hit the enemy instantly (they travel out in a straight line), so you must surprise them or intercept their course (as they cannot change course if they are floating through mid air!). Stars provide cover, as well as blocking view for sneak attacks. And the best part? While it will take relatively little to make a playable game, it has plenty of opportunity for updates with new skins, abilities, and tactical options.
Here's Where I Need a Partner
I am primarily a trigger man and the map has little requirement for terraining or custom ui, but I do need at least a couple skills. I have completed the terrain for a 1v1 battleroom, and gotten all aspects of movement and camera control finished (camera control is actually quite cool, it follows a point in between your mouse and unit).
While I will be finishing terraining (and regioning, and pathing) the other sizes of battlerooms as well as making my triggers multiplayer-friendly, all I need is a data editor to make a couple abilities. Exceptional skills aren't even required, although you must be able to at least make a shockwave type spell (much like a lurker's attack).
Please PM me if interested. I can communicate via Skype, phone calls, emails, etc. if necessary.
Edit: I would post a video of everything working, but I have no idea how to make one that doesn't lag like crazy (my screen recorder probably gets a solid 1 fps at lowest resolution and quality).
Updates:
I'm looking for someone to make a video of my map for me (as my computer seems to hate me). Its pretty simple stuff if you know what you're doing though. The map is in one of my next posts.
Thanks to Aczchef and SouLCarveRR for offering to help.
Shooting has been changed from a shockwave to a projectile skill.
Dead units are now made colorless and (if they were moving when they died) bounce around the battleroom for the rest of eternity :)
Live units now bounce around the battleroom (gaining speed after the first bounce or so) and must press W to grab onto the next wall they encounter.
Officially went alpha and then made a shitton of improvements.
I saw a video a while back that had a bunch of islands floating above a gas giant that could be sunk by destroying some building, and that gave me an idea: can you randomly generate pieces of terrain at the beginning of the game? All I really need is a bunch of 4x4 "islands" in the middle of an empty area.
0
With all this talk about how much the popularity system sucks, no one has ever mentioned that hosts in WC3 were never afk. Why? Because to stay at the top of the list ("page 1"), they had to constantly close and open slots in the game. Just thought I'd throw that out there to anyone who has ever joined a game, gotten it half/three quarters full, and then realized the host was afk.
0
@DrSuperEvil: Go
Thanks, I'm looking into it now, but one line really confused me. What does this mean?
"The damage effect has a validator of the Unit Compare Behavior Count variety that counts the number of counter buff stacks on the caster to make sure it is below the units damaged per shockwave cap."
Does it mean there is a maximum number of units that can be damaged by the shockwave?
0
@ProzaicMuze: Go
Truth. Now we need a solution.
@Lonami: Go
I don't see why you need to remove popular maps. If it is a cyclic list and they only take up one spot (because we aren't switching to named lobbies), it doesn't matter.
0
Alright. The issue isnt whether 1/2/3 are prequels, it is what order they should be watched in. Prequels almost always should be watched after the original series because they rely on knowledge gained in the original series and are designed to invoke emotions in people who have seen the original series. Not to mention the whole Darth Vader-Luke thing and Leah-Luke thing would be ruined...
Heres an example, seeing Yoda do backflips while kicking ass with a lightsaber? Not so awesome if you havent seen him old and frail in the original series.
Oh, I think I remember that episode. Is that when Doctor Who tells the goa'uld to go fuck themselves?
0
Only ever played Dark Messiah's demo, but it seemed to be a very good system (swords actually hit eachother, blade locks, disarming, very low actual health, etc.). Too bad the game itself looked pretty mediocre. I wish they had put that system in Oblivion (which just sucked).
0
Anyone questioning replay value obviously didn't enjoy Minecraft. While the games are very different, the kind of activity they give you is very similar (Minecraft = legos, Dust = sand castles).
0
@Maknyuzz: Go
I don't think it even requires up and coming.
I think a simple cyclic list of currently hosted games as the default tab with all the other tabs in place would work wonders. If you wanted to host a game, you could go to popular, up and coming, or fun or not, but if you were the usual drivel you would just join a currently hosted game.
The issue with fun or not is that the default tab people see is still the popularity list (never underestimate how lazy people are). And I don't think people would appreciate fun or not being the default tab.
As to why the same maps keep going to page one (even after being sent down by blizzard), its because people went "I only ever play Nexus Wars, but I guess I'll try something new after a couple games of Nexus Wars." Hence, Nexus Wars gets played more. Then they see that Nexus Wars is back at the top and only ever play Nexus Wars. It takes a long time to break people out of their normal habits. The best result would of course be them trying something new occasionally, and then more and more frequently. Because all the page 1 games go back to page one, the second step never happens.
0
@Eiviyn: Go
I'm assuming thats a bash on the fact that after NINE YEARS the only map that has survived on WC3 is DotA? It wasn't always like that you know, only once everyone who wasn't a diehard DotA fan left the game because it was SO FRICKING OLD.
But yes, I was talking about SC2.
0
I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't hate the current system doesn't play custom maps very often. Its the same as someone going to a theme park for 30 minutes and then telling everyone to stop complaining that it only has one ride. Even if it is a fairly decent ride, the fact is that after a couple rides it gets pretty boring... Yet after going for half an hour and riding the ride once, you would have no complaints!
Replayability (the only reason I'll ever buy a game) is complete shit.
And you don't need to tell me why a game isn't on page one. I can understand why Cat N Mouse will never be on page one. What I can't understand is why half the time there is no one playing it (even though if I were playing WC3, I could get a lobby of it to fill in seconds with people who would love the game).
Edit: To those who say they don't want to see crap makes pop up in any other sort of system (besides popularity), I understand its scary to try new things, but if you want to play on the jungle gym you have to be ready to scrape your knee every once in a while.
0
I say we get South Park vs Wallmart on their ass (giant crowd holding torches and singing Kumbayah while the Blizzard building burns down).
0
I think it is because it is so much simpler to do detection for squares aligned with the grid (a simple X<Y<Z) and for circles (a simple distance calculation).
Edit: and if you were wondering about ovals, that is simply an ellipse (where you modify the distance formula to favor one side or the other). I wonder why they don't use other curvatures though, as those are pretty easy to do if you have done much linear algebra.
0
@Ahli634
My point is that "triggering ..." is not overwritten (as proven by HuggetSukker's tests), as it is individual to each instance of a trigger (whereas global variables are not) and that if you use the run trigger action, you can still use "triggering ..." in the trigger being run. This means "triggering ..." is neither strictly local nor strictly global. In light of those two facts, I don't see why it would be unsafe to use it (the only possibility being a limit to the number of "triggering ..."s available at a time, but that would just be stupid design).
@HuggetSukker
Another test to run would be:
Event
Actions
Event
Actions
Just to show that it is safe even after "run trigger"
0
Ender's Battleroom
Who is Ender and What is His Battleroom?
Ender is the main character of Orson Scott Card's book, Ender's Game, training to be a military commander (in space). Part of his training is competing in the Battleroom, a large, null G room with a few cubes (or "stars") floating in it to provide cover. Two armies of forty people each enter on opposite sides of the room, then proceed to fire their light guns (which have both a sniper and a shotgun mode, and overheat) at eachother. When hit with a lightbeam for more than a split second, the movement amplifying suit they are wearing freezes in that location, limiting the ability to fight and ultimately stopping the wearer from moving at all. Victory is traditionally thought of as disabling all enemies and then completing the "victory ritual" of getting 5 people to the enemies entrance (or "gate"), but technically can be completed without disabling all enemy soldiers.
How is This a Map?
While it is impossible to make the game operate in three dimensions, an open area with square cliffs rising up serves well as the battleroom. As for movement, whenever the player's unit gets too far away from a wall (either of the room or of one of the stars), he kicks off the wall and floats through the air at high speed, until he collides with another wall. Combat is a simple top down shooter, using either a sniper skill (that deals low damage but travels a long way) or a shotgun skill (that deals high damage, but has limited range). Victory conditions could be set as either deathmatch or victory ritual (with a changeable required number of players completing the ritual).
How is it Unique?
The issue with top down shooters is lag and the insistence on using WASD movement. My map not only slows down combat considerably (by using energy to fire the gun), but with the null G movement, reduces the twitch reliance and virtually eliminates the annoyance of lag. Despite all this "slowing down" and "simplification", it will still be a fun, challenging, and tactical game. Shots fired don't hit the enemy instantly (they travel out in a straight line), so you must surprise them or intercept their course (as they cannot change course if they are floating through mid air!). Stars provide cover, as well as blocking view for sneak attacks. And the best part? While it will take relatively little to make a playable game, it has plenty of opportunity for updates with new skins, abilities, and tactical options.
Here's Where I Need a Partner
I am primarily a trigger man and the map has little requirement for terraining or custom ui, but I do need at least a couple skills. I have completed the terrain for a 1v1 battleroom, and gotten all aspects of movement and camera control finished (camera control is actually quite cool, it follows a point in between your mouse and unit).
While I will be finishing terraining (and regioning, and pathing) the other sizes of battlerooms as well as making my triggers multiplayer-friendly, all I need is a data editor to make a couple abilities. Exceptional skills aren't even required, although you must be able to at least make a shockwave type spell (much like a lurker's attack).
Please PM me if interested. I can communicate via Skype, phone calls, emails, etc. if necessary.
Edit: I would post a video of everything working, but I have no idea how to make one that doesn't lag like crazy (my screen recorder probably gets a solid 1 fps at lowest resolution and quality).
Updates:
I'm looking for someone to make a video of my map for me (as my computer seems to hate me). Its pretty simple stuff if you know what you're doing though. The map is in one of my next posts.
Thanks to Aczchef and SouLCarveRR for offering to help.
Shooting has been changed from a shockwave to a projectile skill.
Dead units are now made colorless and (if they were moving when they died) bounce around the battleroom for the rest of eternity :)
Live units now bounce around the battleroom (gaining speed after the first bounce or so) and must press W to grab onto the next wall they encounter.
Officially went alpha and then made a shitton of improvements.
0
I saw a video a while back that had a bunch of islands floating above a gas giant that could be sunk by destroying some building, and that gave me an idea: can you randomly generate pieces of terrain at the beginning of the game? All I really need is a bunch of 4x4 "islands" in the middle of an empty area.
0
I'm modifying sight radius, and even when I go to the max (32) it seems to only be twice what 8 is. Is it sight area or what?