Thanks for the effort on this report. It had interesting aspects, like FTB (which I played a long time ago) being also hosted by Curse. Most of it sadly is beyond me, so I can't really comment a lot. Sorry about that.
I didn't read the whole thread. My position is, that I am glad they have migrated to a new infrastructure, it may not be perfect, but it also means it gets attention. If it gets attention, it is not getting shut down, which is the worst that could happen for me.
@all
I don't use a whole lot of mapster functionality. What I do use is searching old posts and tutorials. My mapster usage is basicly: put on some music, use the fav'd link to the forum or tutorials (skipping the front page) and start searching whatever I am searching for. Sometimes I also take a look if some interesting topic is being discussed, but then I also go to the forum dirrectly.
I also like to ramble sometimes.
So, since this actually a feedback thread, here is something you guys may want to take a look on:
I recently searched, if there was a topic discussing the attachment of beams to a missile. So my search is: "beam attach missile"
I seem to be getting a lot of results which seemed irrelevant, but here comes the funny thing: near the end of the second results page, I get a topic named: "attaching a beam to a missile".
This should have been the first hit I think. As it so happens this result contains a link to an older post, which has an example map attached, with exactly what I was looking for.
So my feedback would be two-fold:
a) can someone take a look on the search-algorithm? The default settings seem to be a little counter-intuitive. I am not saying what is happening is not smart, it probably is in some way, but it should not be the default.
b) Luckily I downloaded the map file, before the migration. Now I am getting a 404. That would actually really be a loss to mapster, if all those old attachments were broken. So are the "assets of evil" for example.
b2) taking a brief look on the post interface, I can't work out how to attach a map like this for the posteriority either.
Your nuclear burst is like a slightly more vile version of an active sonar in submarines for example. You can check your distance but also reveal your position.
What you could go into is having different modes of movement, like noiceless vs. fast. (I recently watched 'hunt for red october')
If you go with this kind of radar/soar approach you can start thinking about decoys/ dummy units as suggested before.
Maybe you can take some inspiration in modern warfare technology: anti-air missiles with active radar tracking not only meassure the distance from the target but also it's velocity via doppler-shift of the return signals frequency. Spoofing this by sending back a wrong frequency signal is actually a real thing.
Researching electronic warfare can provide you with some inspiration, I think.
A lot of modern warfare is marked by a disproportion of armor to firepower. That's why they don't try to build bigger and bigger units, but units which have better and better conceilment or can obstruct targetting.
On a funny little sidenote, in the early second half of the 19th century in naval warfare it looked exactly the other way around, due to the possibility to build the first ships armored with Iron instead of wood. What happened? They brought back naval rams, which had disappeared from (most) naval battlefields for a long time at this point.
This will teach you something about why better hardware sometimes does not speed up a game. For example, you will probably not want an 8-core CPU to do SC2.
Before going on, it would be interesting to know, what your usual desktop looks like, do you need editor with some other software in parallel?
Else, here's is what I gather from the articles above (but I am just an amateur at best, I don't frequently build my own PCs, take these with a few pinches of salt):
CPU: take a dual Core CPU (usually i5's from intel). SC2 can't make use of more anyways. But things are still not that simple. At the moment I have an it-2630QM, which is labeled 2.0 GHz x 4 cores. However, the deal with those CPUs is, that they overclock themselves a little, if not all cores are in use, so I can get 2.9 GHz if only a single Core is in use or 2 x 2.5 GHz, if only two are used. If you are doing video editing in parallel to editor or sc2, then you may want more cores.
GPU: I would hazard the guess, that for the terrain editor you need high video memory. As pointed out in the article above: video memory of multiple video cards won't stack up. I would suggest going for a solid single card. Use benchmark sites such as suggested by Glorn, is the best I can advice, too, here.
Windows vs. Mac: Look, I know you don't want to hear this, but, there is usually I primary system something is designed and supported for. For SC2 it is windows. You can make it run on Mac, but you will run into technical trouble more frequently. The gateway error in particular seems to be on blizz's side anyways, so I don't think you can do anything about it anyways.
Just do yourself a favor and go for Windows 7. This is what SC2 was designed on if I am not entirely mistaken. Don't go windows 10. From what I near it can be a convenient OS, but only after changing half its settings. Just stick with what is working and go for 7.
Edit: On an unrelated note, since I brought up AotSingularity: I have been wondering if it will be worth it to migrate to AotS modding in the future, due to the whole tech-wank-off (well, it somewhat makes sense to me from what is written) going on about it. And knowing how quickly SC2 can get to its limits.
But for that I will have to build a new (and expensive Oo') desktop first.
No, but if those who are not bigots do NOT speak out against it, they are tacitly endorsing it.
Hardly. If they don't participate or consent, you just have to provide the a more attractive alternative and you will see how much they really endorsed it. There was a lot more attached to both Clinton and Trump than 'racism: yes or no'.
Would be a different story, if the US had to rerun the entire process if voter turnout was below 40%. But when your choices are effectively Trump, Clinton and 'whoever of the two the others think better' this can hardly be made about a single aspect, can it?
Those who are wishing for economic return of work will be very disappointed, those jobs have been automated out of existence. Those who wish to promote bigotry and hatred will find that it has economic limits. Those who wish to halt free trade will find it is painful to do so.
[...]
Bluntly put, the bar is being raised to be economically viable/competitive and by definition, an ever increasing amount of the existing and future population will not be (from a strictly economic point of view) worth anything, quite possible net negative.
Keyword automation. What we shouldn't forget here are advances in AI which will also reduce work in law and journalism among other things. Because searching written information may not be a job people are efficient at any more. If people want to have work a decade or two down the road they will have to do smart stuff. Can our educational systems cover that? Are we investing enough in them?
In a utopian world we would finally all ahve time to be scientists, artist, investigative journalists, etc. (teachers?). But are we actually educating all people to be able to be confortable in those jobs? And apart from that is the economic system rigged in a way to see it as a 'worthy investment'?
On the upside, population control has already been discovered and implemented, namely A) Birth Control and B) Educating people. As a result, nearly the entire western world has a native population decline, with immigration outpacing it for now, in places that allow it. Japan, last I checked, was on a path to extinction in about a century (1.2 births on average, almost half the replacement rate).
I saw a talk/documentary a while ago which claimed that the world would cap out at 12 billion, even if everyone decided to go two child family at the point of time of the talk/documentary. A major contributor of growth will be Africa. We will have more than enough immigration to come. Does education apply to them? Libya and Syria have had decent educational systems. Now people are migrating through and from there.
So to close the arc to my above point: The people who will be able to still work jobs and whos offspring have the best chances to live in that world will choose not to, while the people less prepared are an increasing part of the population.
What about growth rates divided by urban and rural areas? migration between these two? I didn't look it up, but if educated people get less children and there are no jobs in the rural areas in the future...
This is a huge crisis in the making and we are neither prepared nor preparing. Saying "you not being prepared is not my problem" won't be a solution. They will make it your problem.
I may also have watched a little too much Jonathan Pie tonight, so excuse my ramblings. Feel free to be harsh with me :)
I don't think Trump is at the helm of introducing a new racist dark age either. There may very well have been some racism in the US still which is only now surfacing. But these things aren't happening because Trump is an evil terrible person (not trying to claim the opposite about the filthy 1%er though).
This is also not an isolated event but part of a trend visible in Brexit in the UK, Marie Le Pen in France, the german anti-immigrant movement etc.
I think this is more or less about all the things people felt unheard about. Middle eastern wars, growing financial inequality and more. People are past demonstrations, letters, etc. Now they rather vote for uncertainties than a certain continuation of the present.
What I think is a major aspect here, is mainstream media not cutting it against 'the internet' any more. Their popular claim - of print media and their online extensions of being the most serious/reliable source of information - they have been undermining themselves for a long time now. They simply don't have the credibility to defend that claim against other independent news sources (well, more or less, depending on whom we are talking about) even if their arguments may be more accurate.
Another disturbing aspect to this is, that the mainstream media is very (too) slow to realize they don't have the pull on people any more. They seem to think they have to strongly support the current establishments and that they can turn this trend, but just deepen the divide between themselves and many people by this, since they are not changing much about the credibility of their arguments.
I would think of this as an earthquake. It is also somewhat scary to think about what will happen if this doesn't provide relief of tension at all and the true quake is still about to happen. And that is what I would be more concerned about with Trump.
Snowballing in itself is not a bad thing in my opinion. What is problematic, is if the game transitions into an unrecoverable position for one team, but still isn't near to the end. In that case one or both teams are just wasting their time progressing to the end. For the losing team this is obviously not fun.
A little bit of snowballing should be in any competitive game, because otherwise the early stages are essentially meaningless, aren't they?
The only thing I could figure out on the fly, was how forcefields get crushed by massive units:
The target unit has an ability (Shatter), which automaticly targets massive units and plays an effect which kills the caster. Plus some autocast stuff... maybe target sorts.
If you gave all your light units that ability, it would have the effect you described. If this is how you did it, you could go through the flags of the ability, because it might be possible, they run towards the massive units attempting to cast the shatter ability. Or play with the prepare and approach phases, I am not too sure here.
You might be interested in this extra credits episode:
Apart from that, I agree with the others:
Half an hour of only grinding would be a waste of time to me. 4 hours of dense exciting narrative might feel too short to me in the end. It really depends on the quality of the map.
Thank you both for the information. Now I feel like my map is a bit of a waste of time...
Dunno what your map is, but part of the reason I brought up Edison is, that often times not the innovative idea, brings the most benefit, but lots of iteration. What makes you think you are not iterating in a good way?
It is around this time that a map maker only known under the alias 'Eul' asks himself the question: why not automate the control of the troops so the player can focus only on their hero? [...]
"The first version of Defense of the Ancients was released in 2003 by a mapmaker under the alias of Eul who based the map on a previous StarCraft scenario known as 'Aeon of Strife' "
"The roots of the genre can be traced back decades to one of the earliest real-time strategy titles, the 1989 Sega Mega Drive/Genesis game Herzog Zwei.[4][5] It has been cited as a precursor to,[6] or an early example of,[7] the MOBA genre. It used a similar formula, where each player controls a single command unit in one of two opposing sides on a battlefield."
It's details, but I thought I should point it out in the hope you didn't turn in your thesis yet (and not ridiculing myself with my eikipedia knowledge :d ).
Dota basicly was for mobas, what Thomas Edison was for the light bulb. Not the first with the idea, but the first to manage to bring it to the masses.
I didn't play WoW and can't comment on its arena pvp.
But the idea of dota is a 30-60 minute tactical battle (rather then immersion in the story as in an rpg). Gains made in one battle do not carry over to other matches. So it is very different from an mmorpg in that regard. You allways start with a hero level one (which is like a normal warcraft3 hero) and no equipment. Over the course of a battle you usually reach level 25 which is max. You will also by equipment although, you usually don't max out your slots with max expensive items.
The Winning condition is destroying a building in the center of the enemy base. The short term strategic goals are acquiring XP and gold for your own heroes and deny it to the enemy heroes. XP is gained by having creeps die near you, gold is gained by killing (i.e. last hitting) a creep. Creeps are regularily spawned from either base and there are some neutral creeps in the map, which respawn in periodic intervals (though these neutrals are usually only enough to feed one player per team). You also gain XP and gold from killing other heroes.
In the early game you will have a phase where the teams split over the map, which is organized in 3 roads (lanes) and terrain in between those. The roads are used by the creeps spawning from the bases and you will usually see 1v1 and 2v2 situations on these in the early game. Gradually the game will transition towards people breaking out of those roads and team up against other heroes in order to take them out 2v1, 3v1 or 3v2 (ganking). Eventually there is a phase where people rarely populate the roads to farm XP and gold, but rather stick in groups and try to wipe out the entire enemy team in a team fight. This advantage is used to make progress on destroying enemy buildings and eventually win.
Maybe this helps illustrates it a bit. I didn't play dota2 but suspect it is very close to dota.
at about min 10 he starts showing the game and seems to go over a lot of theoretical stuff
maybe do smth. like watch until minte 3 or so then jump to 10 and then go back to the theory.
I would define MOBA as a type of game, where players control a character with abilities and which improves over time and face each other in teams. Combat is tactical and the game duration is usually somewhere in the region of 30-50 minutes. DOTA was - I think - the first huge success in that genre. More modern games which are very close to DOTA are DOTA 2, League of Legends (LoL), Heroes of Newearth and Heroes of the Storm to name only a few examples. A less close relative would be Fractured space for example. Or in the Arcade: Star battle and Warships.
Some of these titles are for free, just play a round or two, or watch some stream or youtube video of it.
0
@QueenGambit
Thanks for the effort on this report. It had interesting aspects, like FTB (which I played a long time ago) being also hosted by Curse. Most of it sadly is beyond me, so I can't really comment a lot. Sorry about that.
I didn't read the whole thread. My position is, that I am glad they have migrated to a new infrastructure, it may not be perfect, but it also means it gets attention. If it gets attention, it is not getting shut down, which is the worst that could happen for me.
@all
I don't use a whole lot of mapster functionality. What I do use is searching old posts and tutorials. My mapster usage is basicly: put on some music, use the fav'd link to the forum or tutorials (skipping the front page) and start searching whatever I am searching for. Sometimes I also take a look if some interesting topic is being discussed, but then I also go to the forum dirrectly.
I also like to ramble sometimes.
So, since this actually a feedback thread, here is something you guys may want to take a look on:
I recently searched, if there was a topic discussing the attachment of beams to a missile. So my search is: "beam attach missile"
I seem to be getting a lot of results which seemed irrelevant, but here comes the funny thing: near the end of the second results page, I get a topic named: "attaching a beam to a missile".
This should have been the first hit I think. As it so happens this result contains a link to an older post, which has an example map attached, with exactly what I was looking for.
So my feedback would be two-fold:
a) can someone take a look on the search-algorithm? The default settings seem to be a little counter-intuitive. I am not saying what is happening is not smart, it probably is in some way, but it should not be the default.
b) Luckily I downloaded the map file, before the migration. Now I am getting a 404. That would actually really be a loss to mapster, if all those old attachments were broken. So are the "assets of evil" for example.
b2) taking a brief look on the post interface, I can't work out how to attach a map like this for the posteriority either.
Non-the-less:
Happy holidays to everyone.
0
Your nuclear burst is like a slightly more vile version of an active sonar in submarines for example. You can check your distance but also reveal your position.
What you could go into is having different modes of movement, like noiceless vs. fast. (I recently watched 'hunt for red october')
If you go with this kind of radar/soar approach you can start thinking about decoys/ dummy units as suggested before.
Maybe you can take some inspiration in modern warfare technology: anti-air missiles with active radar tracking not only meassure the distance from the target but also it's velocity via doppler-shift of the return signals frequency. Spoofing this by sending back a wrong frequency signal is actually a real thing.
Researching electronic warfare can provide you with some inspiration, I think.
A lot of modern warfare is marked by a disproportion of armor to firepower. That's why they don't try to build bigger and bigger units, but units which have better and better conceilment or can obstruct targetting.
On a funny little sidenote, in the early second half of the 19th century in naval warfare it looked exactly the other way around, due to the possibility to build the first ships armored with Iron instead of wood. What happened? They brought back naval rams, which had disappeared from (most) naval battlefields for a long time at this point.
I hope this helps and inspires you a bit.
0
Hi,
I think I have two articles for you to read:
This will teach you something about why better hardware sometimes does not speed up a game. For example, you will probably not want an 8-core CPU to do SC2.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/06/building-a-4th-generation-rts
The second article is on PC building specificly:
http://gamingtrend.com/2016/09/19/next-generation-gaming-pcs-a-cautionary-tale/
Before going on, it would be interesting to know, what your usual desktop looks like, do you need editor with some other software in parallel?
Else, here's is what I gather from the articles above (but I am just an amateur at best, I don't frequently build my own PCs, take these with a few pinches of salt):
CPU: take a dual Core CPU (usually i5's from intel). SC2 can't make use of more anyways. But things are still not that simple. At the moment I have an it-2630QM, which is labeled 2.0 GHz x 4 cores. However, the deal with those CPUs is, that they overclock themselves a little, if not all cores are in use, so I can get 2.9 GHz if only a single Core is in use or 2 x 2.5 GHz, if only two are used. If you are doing video editing in parallel to editor or sc2, then you may want more cores.
GPU: I would hazard the guess, that for the terrain editor you need high video memory. As pointed out in the article above: video memory of multiple video cards won't stack up. I would suggest going for a solid single card. Use benchmark sites such as suggested by Glorn, is the best I can advice, too, here.
Windows vs. Mac: Look, I know you don't want to hear this, but, there is usually I primary system something is designed and supported for. For SC2 it is windows. You can make it run on Mac, but you will run into technical trouble more frequently. The gateway error in particular seems to be on blizz's side anyways, so I don't think you can do anything about it anyways.
Just do yourself a favor and go for Windows 7. This is what SC2 was designed on if I am not entirely mistaken. Don't go windows 10. From what I near it can be a convenient OS, but only after changing half its settings. Just stick with what is working and go for 7.
Edit: On an unrelated note, since I brought up AotSingularity: I have been wondering if it will be worth it to migrate to AotS modding in the future, due to the whole tech-wank-off (well, it somewhat makes sense to me from what is written) going on about it. And knowing how quickly SC2 can get to its limits.
But for that I will have to build a new (and expensive Oo') desktop first.
0
Hardly. If they don't participate or consent, you just have to provide the a more attractive alternative and you will see how much they really endorsed it. There was a lot more attached to both Clinton and Trump than 'racism: yes or no'.
Would be a different story, if the US had to rerun the entire process if voter turnout was below 40%. But when your choices are effectively Trump, Clinton and 'whoever of the two the others think better' this can hardly be made about a single aspect, can it?
Keyword automation. What we shouldn't forget here are advances in AI which will also reduce work in law and journalism among other things. Because searching written information may not be a job people are efficient at any more. If people want to have work a decade or two down the road they will have to do smart stuff. Can our educational systems cover that? Are we investing enough in them?
In a utopian world we would finally all ahve time to be scientists, artist, investigative journalists, etc. (teachers?). But are we actually educating all people to be able to be confortable in those jobs? And apart from that is the economic system rigged in a way to see it as a 'worthy investment'?
I saw a talk/documentary a while ago which claimed that the world would cap out at 12 billion, even if everyone decided to go two child family at the point of time of the talk/documentary. A major contributor of growth will be Africa. We will have more than enough immigration to come. Does education apply to them? Libya and Syria have had decent educational systems. Now people are migrating through and from there.
So to close the arc to my above point: The people who will be able to still work jobs and whos offspring have the best chances to live in that world will choose not to, while the people less prepared are an increasing part of the population.
What about growth rates divided by urban and rural areas? migration between these two? I didn't look it up, but if educated people get less children and there are no jobs in the rural areas in the future...
This is a huge crisis in the making and we are neither prepared nor preparing. Saying "you not being prepared is not my problem" won't be a solution. They will make it your problem.
I may also have watched a little too much Jonathan Pie tonight, so excuse my ramblings. Feel free to be harsh with me :)
0
I don't think Trump is at the helm of introducing a new racist dark age either. There may very well have been some racism in the US still which is only now surfacing. But these things aren't happening because Trump is an evil terrible person (not trying to claim the opposite about the filthy 1%er though).
This is also not an isolated event but part of a trend visible in Brexit in the UK, Marie Le Pen in France, the german anti-immigrant movement etc.
I think this is more or less about all the things people felt unheard about. Middle eastern wars, growing financial inequality and more. People are past demonstrations, letters, etc. Now they rather vote for uncertainties than a certain continuation of the present.
What I think is a major aspect here, is mainstream media not cutting it against 'the internet' any more. Their popular claim - of print media and their online extensions of being the most serious/reliable source of information - they have been undermining themselves for a long time now. They simply don't have the credibility to defend that claim against other independent news sources (well, more or less, depending on whom we are talking about) even if their arguments may be more accurate.
Another disturbing aspect to this is, that the mainstream media is very (too) slow to realize they don't have the pull on people any more. They seem to think they have to strongly support the current establishments and that they can turn this trend, but just deepen the divide between themselves and many people by this, since they are not changing much about the credibility of their arguments.
I would think of this as an earthquake. It is also somewhat scary to think about what will happen if this doesn't provide relief of tension at all and the true quake is still about to happen. And that is what I would be more concerned about with Trump.
0
About snowballing
Snowballing in itself is not a bad thing in my opinion. What is problematic, is if the game transitions into an unrecoverable position for one team, but still isn't near to the end. In that case one or both teams are just wasting their time progressing to the end. For the losing team this is obviously not fun.
A little bit of snowballing should be in any competitive game, because otherwise the early stages are essentially meaningless, aren't they?
0
You don't need custom values for that, you can call unit types directly via triggers.
I attached an example map where a trigger adds any created marine to a control group.
0
You could make a validator of type "unit filter", which is essentially a target filter. Would that help?
0
The problem is not so much, that nobody knows how to make a crush system, but that people know how many ways of making are there.
Inspired by how blizz made sentry fields crushable (and what others suggested before), I can think of a few possible solutions:
- Ability on the side of the crushed unit
- Ability on the side of the crusher
- Weapon of the crusher
- Weapon of the crushable unit
- Behavior based system for either crusher or crushed witha search effect
- trigger-based on the event "unit enters/leaves range of unit"
0
The only thing I could figure out on the fly, was how forcefields get crushed by massive units:
The target unit has an ability (Shatter), which automaticly targets massive units and plays an effect which kills the caster. Plus some autocast stuff... maybe target sorts.
If you gave all your light units that ability, it would have the effect you described. If this is how you did it, you could go through the flags of the ability, because it might be possible, they run towards the massive units attempting to cast the shatter ability. Or play with the prepare and approach phases, I am not too sure here.
Sorry for the late reply, didn't see it earlier.
0
You might be interested in this extra credits episode:
Apart from that, I agree with the others:
Half an hour of only grinding would be a waste of time to me. 4 hours of dense exciting narrative might feel too short to me in the end. It really depends on the quality of the map.
0
Dunno what your map is, but part of the reason I brought up Edison is, that often times not the innovative idea, brings the most benefit, but lots of iteration. What makes you think you are not iterating in a good way?
0
The idea is older; from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_the_Ancients
"The first version of Defense of the Ancients was released in 2003 by a mapmaker under the alias of Eul who based the map on a previous StarCraft scenario known as 'Aeon of Strife' "
and from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_arena
"The roots of the genre can be traced back decades to one of the earliest real-time strategy titles, the 1989 Sega Mega Drive/Genesis game Herzog Zwei.[4][5] It has been cited as a precursor to,[6] or an early example of,[7] the MOBA genre. It used a similar formula, where each player controls a single command unit in one of two opposing sides on a battlefield."
It's details, but I thought I should point it out in the hope you didn't turn in your thesis yet (and not ridiculing myself with my eikipedia knowledge :d ).
Dota basicly was for mobas, what Thomas Edison was for the light bulb. Not the first with the idea, but the first to manage to bring it to the masses.
0
I didn't play WoW and can't comment on its arena pvp.
But the idea of dota is a 30-60 minute tactical battle (rather then immersion in the story as in an rpg). Gains made in one battle do not carry over to other matches. So it is very different from an mmorpg in that regard. You allways start with a hero level one (which is like a normal warcraft3 hero) and no equipment. Over the course of a battle you usually reach level 25 which is max. You will also by equipment although, you usually don't max out your slots with max expensive items.
The Winning condition is destroying a building in the center of the enemy base. The short term strategic goals are acquiring XP and gold for your own heroes and deny it to the enemy heroes. XP is gained by having creeps die near you, gold is gained by killing (i.e. last hitting) a creep. Creeps are regularily spawned from either base and there are some neutral creeps in the map, which respawn in periodic intervals (though these neutrals are usually only enough to feed one player per team). You also gain XP and gold from killing other heroes.
In the early game you will have a phase where the teams split over the map, which is organized in 3 roads (lanes) and terrain in between those. The roads are used by the creeps spawning from the bases and you will usually see 1v1 and 2v2 situations on these in the early game. Gradually the game will transition towards people breaking out of those roads and team up against other heroes in order to take them out 2v1, 3v1 or 3v2 (ganking). Eventually there is a phase where people rarely populate the roads to farm XP and gold, but rather stick in groups and try to wipe out the entire enemy team in a team fight. This advantage is used to make progress on destroying enemy buildings and eventually win.
Maybe this helps illustrates it a bit. I didn't play dota2 but suspect it is very close to dota.
at about min 10 he starts showing the game and seems to go over a lot of theoretical stuff maybe do smth. like watch until minte 3 or so then jump to 10 and then go back to the theory.
0
I would define MOBA as a type of game, where players control a character with abilities and which improves over time and face each other in teams. Combat is tactical and the game duration is usually somewhere in the region of 30-50 minutes. DOTA was - I think - the first huge success in that genre. More modern games which are very close to DOTA are DOTA 2, League of Legends (LoL), Heroes of Newearth and Heroes of the Storm to name only a few examples. A less close relative would be Fractured space for example. Or in the Arcade: Star battle and Warships.
Some of these titles are for free, just play a round or two, or watch some stream or youtube video of it.