They are providing you with a lot of copy-written material.Stuff that belongs to them.the editor belongs to them.If I let you borrow my super cool Lego's, and you built a really neat castle with them; those are still my Lego's and I want them back!
That's like saying an artist's work belongs to a paintbrush maker because they made the tools the artist used.
Can understand not being able to sell something entirely made of Blizzard assets.
But what if I want to remake my map on anther engine and use the same name/design to attract the players of the original map?
everything is tedious because of some hidden code that i can't figure out by just default user interface. I don't know how everything is handled internaly, BUT the funny thing the editor demand this knowledge to make things that work properly. So even simple idea turns nightmare most of time because the thing that you set up in your head that SHOULD work obviously won't work as intended at first implementation.
i tell this: if you want something more than firing missile then youre in a lot of trouble.
The editor is definitely designed with Blizzard's team in mind and everyone else as an after thought.
Oh yeah, without a doubt Steam is a much better place to put your content out on. And Blizzard COULD be doing more like Valve to encourage content creation.
But I don't think the arcade is completely hopeless. If you have a map that stays on page 1-2, I guarantee you could be getting $500-1000 monthly from crowdfunding if you dedicated your time to working on it.
That's about what I'd be making from an extra part-time job which would totally justify absurd amounts of time spent working in the editor and would encourage me to put some extra quality into the project I'm working on.
So, the general consensus that I'm gathering is the community is for creators being compensated for their work, but also feel the time has passed for crowdfunding and that it could never replace a full-time job or even a part-time job.
But I still feel some of the creators of the top played games could get more than enough money for a sandwich and coffee every day if they just integrated crowdfunding in a meaningful and responsible way.
Totally agree it's not an easy task though since there is an average of only 14,000(?) players on Starcraft 2, and yeah, I imagine only a small percent of that is arcade people.
Starcraft 2 is going to last a long time though, possibly even longer than SC1 since Blizzard doesn't seem to be stopping new content for it any time soon. And it's still going to have a place even with the inevitable Warcraft 4 down the pipeline.
So, it's not too late to deliver on something that could gather the attention at the level of something like SCU.
Also, sad to hear the SCU guy had to take out loans? Didn't they get $84,918 from Kickstarter alone? That's some serious money mismanagement if they only spent 2 years on it. Well, props on them for delivering what they promised either way.
There is no way to copy and past events from one actor to another and there are so many events clogging up most actors that it usually takes some time to find one if you are trying to remove from already existing events.
I haaate this. Especially on the mac version of the editor because it doesn't show the values for some things, so I have to completely guess what things like tint color are.
I think a Blizzard advertisement deal would be a decent idea. All custom Maps have (optionally) advertisements in their loading screens. The more traffic your map generates, the more you make off the map. Blizzard would get their cut, and "purists" could simply not check the "enable advertisements" box in map options.
I haven't seen advertisements in a Blizzard game/platform since Diablo 1 and Starcraft 1.
I like the idea. But the idea of bringing back ads on Battle.net is probably not in Blizzard's interest.
And depending on ad revenue is really lame. Look at what's happening on youtube for example, their videos are getting a reduction on monetization from ads because their videos have certain tags.
Crowdfunding is definitely the way to support content creators.
I would suggets most to skip to xml view on data editing. Upgrades become painless. Requirement nodes and conversations totally need the visual editor tho.
For me, even ddespite what i said, the data editor still grinds my gears, because loading all items and shit take forever for my cpu.
Yeah, good idea, I should have switched to xml for upgrades sooner, don't like using it for most things in the data editor though. It did save me about an hour or so here thankfully.
@GnaReffotsirk: Go
I see what you're saying but I don't think that would be the case at all. You have communities for engines like Unreal and Unity, which are made up of developers who are definitely in competition within one another, but still share information with a passion.
If the Arcade became a market place like Blizzard spitballed, I think SC2Mapster and other communities would be in the exact same state.
But crowdfunding is waaay different than having a real market place. Crowdfunding (except with things like Kickstarter) lets the people who are supporting the map be able to stop supporting it whenever they want. If the author of a map isn't providing worthwhile content, stop supporting them.
I think the entire topic is opinion based. There is no right or wrong answer.I think it is great that some people could get money for their projects.Some people may be against it, for the purity of the concept.There is no requirement to crowdfund, so no one should have to prove anything.
Personally, I wouldn't take money for a project, due to the fact that I feel I would owe someone something.I make the project I want to make; not the project I want everyone to want, or partake in the development of.
Hobbies are not jobs, and should not be viewed as such.Imagine how much SCU would be worth if you combined their work hours, and multiplied it by the salary of their respective positions at at a real job.they are working for pennies on the dollar.
Hmm, how do you really define a "real job". My current job gets their money through advertisers, who sell shit like mattresses.
Does that guy who sells mattresses have a real job, but the SCU guys have a fake job? They're essentially providing a game with the 20x the effort of an indie game you'd see on Steam. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played it, but doesn't SCU mostly use custom assets? That's way work than just making some rectangles without textures in Unity and calling it artsy.
But yeah, I suppose you're right in this is all opinion.
I just sometimes think, as I spend 4 days straight on one small aspect of my map, if this is just a hobby. I can only speak for myself, but making a large scale map feels like a full-time job for me. And I'm not really making it for myself, but the small community that plays the map that expect you to fix the problems with it.
And you say there is no requirement, but there is, time. Like you said, imagine the time you could be spending working an actual job. But I would love to make a map (or a mod, because they are technically mods of Starcraft 2, at least the ones that are games within their own right) instead of getting a part-time job on top of a full-time job.
It's sort of like making music, yeah it can be a pretty casual hobby. You can throw a song together pretty quick in Ableton, Maschine, or whatever you use.. but is it something people are going to want to listen to?
Same case with maps, you can make a nice quick-and-dirty DotA clone, but are people actually going to play it longer than a week/month/year?
I just think if people want to see the arcade grow, crowdfunding is something that needs to be embraced to encourage development like the contest Blizzard had for the fantasy map.
Such as like what Starcraft Universe is doing through crowdfunding.
Personally, I think it's great. I remember when Starcraft 2 was in it's early stages, Blizzard talked about map creators being able to set up a price on their map. I think they eventually decided to go against that as it would likely cause a lot backlash.
But with third-party crowdfunding, it sort of lets the community decide what your map is worth and if it's a good investment to support the creator.
I've found a lot of people tend to stick with 1-3 maps and spend hundreds of hours playing them. These are usually larger scale maps, that probably required thousands of hours to get to where they are at and could be considered a full-time job.So it make sense that the community should be able to support it.
You see Youtubers get $10,000-30,000 a month for a lot less work (trust me, I work full-time as an editor for a television station).
But what do you guys think?
Do you think a map needs to prove itself as something that can be played long-term before the creators can consider crowdfunding?
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Ah, so *technically* a "Dota 2" could happen from SC2?
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That's like saying an artist's work belongs to a paintbrush maker because they made the tools the artist used.
Can understand not being able to sell something entirely made of Blizzard assets.
But what if I want to remake my map on anther engine and use the same name/design to attract the players of the original map?
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Did they ever update it after the backlash?
Because if not, that's incredibly lame.
Realize the chance of a Dota 2 ever happening again is slim, but what does Blizz have to gain from owning the rights to the maps we make?
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Congrats, that mod is looking mighty sexy.
Patreon seems like the way to go for crowdfunding.
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Still, just sort of weird you can't copy and paste without xml.
The editor is definitely designed with Blizzard's team in mind and everyone else as an after thought.
So we kind of have to decipher things on our own.
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@Zolden: Go
Oh yeah, without a doubt Steam is a much better place to put your content out on. And Blizzard COULD be doing more like Valve to encourage content creation.
But I don't think the arcade is completely hopeless. If you have a map that stays on page 1-2, I guarantee you could be getting $500-1000 monthly from crowdfunding if you dedicated your time to working on it.
That's about what I'd be making from an extra part-time job which would totally justify absurd amounts of time spent working in the editor and would encourage me to put some extra quality into the project I'm working on.
0
So, the general consensus that I'm gathering is the community is for creators being compensated for their work, but also feel the time has passed for crowdfunding and that it could never replace a full-time job or even a part-time job.
But I still feel some of the creators of the top played games could get more than enough money for a sandwich and coffee every day if they just integrated crowdfunding in a meaningful and responsible way.
Totally agree it's not an easy task though since there is an average of only 14,000(?) players on Starcraft 2, and yeah, I imagine only a small percent of that is arcade people.
Starcraft 2 is going to last a long time though, possibly even longer than SC1 since Blizzard doesn't seem to be stopping new content for it any time soon. And it's still going to have a place even with the inevitable Warcraft 4 down the pipeline.
So, it's not too late to deliver on something that could gather the attention at the level of something like SCU.
Also, sad to hear the SCU guy had to take out loans? Didn't they get $84,918 from Kickstarter alone? That's some serious money mismanagement if they only spent 2 years on it. Well, props on them for delivering what they promised either way.
0
I haaate this. Especially on the mac version of the editor because it doesn't show the values for some things, so I have to completely guess what things like tint color are.
0
I haven't seen advertisements in a Blizzard game/platform since Diablo 1 and Starcraft 1.
I like the idea. But the idea of bringing back ads on Battle.net is probably not in Blizzard's interest.
And depending on ad revenue is really lame. Look at what's happening on youtube for example, their videos are getting a reduction on monetization from ads because their videos have certain tags.
Crowdfunding is definitely the way to support content creators.
0
lol
Yeah, good idea, I should have switched to xml for upgrades sooner, don't like using it for most things in the data editor though. It did save me about an hour or so here thankfully.
0
@GnaReffotsirk: Go I see what you're saying but I don't think that would be the case at all. You have communities for engines like Unreal and Unity, which are made up of developers who are definitely in competition within one another, but still share information with a passion.
If the Arcade became a market place like Blizzard spitballed, I think SC2Mapster and other communities would be in the exact same state.
But crowdfunding is waaay different than having a real market place. Crowdfunding (except with things like Kickstarter) lets the people who are supporting the map be able to stop supporting it whenever they want. If the author of a map isn't providing worthwhile content, stop supporting them.
0
@Alevice: Go
Honestly, I think some creators of the maps on the front page of NA/EU could replace their job if they just tried crowdfunding.
Hmm, how do you really define a "real job". My current job gets their money through advertisers, who sell shit like mattresses.
Does that guy who sells mattresses have a real job, but the SCU guys have a fake job? They're essentially providing a game with the 20x the effort of an indie game you'd see on Steam. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played it, but doesn't SCU mostly use custom assets? That's way work than just making some rectangles without textures in Unity and calling it artsy.
But yeah, I suppose you're right in this is all opinion.
I just sometimes think, as I spend 4 days straight on one small aspect of my map, if this is just a hobby. I can only speak for myself, but making a large scale map feels like a full-time job for me. And I'm not really making it for myself, but the small community that plays the map that expect you to fix the problems with it.
And you say there is no requirement, but there is, time. Like you said, imagine the time you could be spending working an actual job. But I would love to make a map (or a mod, because they are technically mods of Starcraft 2, at least the ones that are games within their own right) instead of getting a part-time job on top of a full-time job.
It's sort of like making music, yeah it can be a pretty casual hobby. You can throw a song together pretty quick in Ableton, Maschine, or whatever you use.. but is it something people are going to want to listen to?
Same case with maps, you can make a nice quick-and-dirty DotA clone, but are people actually going to play it longer than a week/month/year?
I just think if people want to see the arcade grow, crowdfunding is something that needs to be embraced to encourage development like the contest Blizzard had for the fantasy map.
0
Such as like what Starcraft Universe is doing through crowdfunding.
Personally, I think it's great. I remember when Starcraft 2 was in it's early stages, Blizzard talked about map creators being able to set up a price on their map. I think they eventually decided to go against that as it would likely cause a lot backlash.
But with third-party crowdfunding, it sort of lets the community decide what your map is worth and if it's a good investment to support the creator.
I've found a lot of people tend to stick with 1-3 maps and spend hundreds of hours playing them. These are usually larger scale maps, that probably required thousands of hours to get to where they are at and could be considered a full-time job.So it make sense that the community should be able to support it.
You see Youtubers get $10,000-30,000 a month for a lot less work (trust me, I work full-time as an editor for a television station).
But what do you guys think?
Do you think a map needs to prove itself as something that can be played long-term before the creators can consider crowdfunding?
0
@coffeeclubbr: Go
Ah yeah, makes sense.
@DrSuperEvil: Go
Enabled that, but still doesn't seem to be changing in the description.
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Yeah, and when the arcade didn't take a century to load.