SC2Mapster

Quote from Bilxor: Go

Wait so you want to build a custom map but can't even really play/handle sc2 on your computer....erm what

first of: no i don't want to build _a_ custom map.

i want to build a custom map creator tool. (to be even more precise: only/mainly triggers)

and i like the logic and strategy in a starcraft game -> i like to theorycraft. my pc just can't handle the fancy visual effects.

@StripyTail: Go

lol... as if i got any money xD

fyi: i can't even play sc2 myself - at least not with a framerate, that doesn't look super laggy
(2 players, both ~ 90 supply, is around the max my machine can handle before dropping the FPS dramatically)

updated - still looking for anyone :D

i don't wanna sound picky, but i prolly do:

i want to stay with the example custom command i already posted and compare it to the "traditional" way of doing this:

Actions required for the custom command "build outpost":

1. set camera to where you want your "outpost" to be
2. select control group
3. press hotkey for custom command "build outpost"
   1. click 1
   2. click 2
   3. click 3

time required: < 0,5 sec

Actions required for "traditional" way of doing the exact same thing:

1. set camera to worker position
2. select workers
   1. re-adjust selection
3. add workers to control group
4. set camera to marines
5. select marines
   1. re-adjust selection
6. add marines to control group
7. set camera to widow mine
8. add widow mine to control group
9. set camera to medivac
10. select medivac
11. add medivac to control group
12. select whole control group
13. issue the load command for the units into the medivac
14. shift-issue movement command to the location where you want your "outpost"
15. wait until all units are loaded
16. replace movement command with unload command
17. wait until the units arrive at location
18. set camera position to the location
19. select widow mine
20. press hot-key for burrowing
    1. click
21. select workers
22. press hotkey for standard buildings
23. press hotkey for bunker
    1. click
24. press hotkey for standard buildings
25. press hotkey for missile turret
    1. click
26. select bunker
27. add bunker to control group
28. select missile turret
29. add missile turret to control group
30. wait until buildings are finished
31. select marines
32. load marines into bunker

time required: >> 1 sec

... i would guess 5-10 seconds, the waiting not included.
...and i didn't include the actions to jump back with your camera and re-select the control-group, because you had to wait and did something somewhere else on the map.

if you see any faster way of doing this, please tell me :) i don't want to use false information.

/edit: i just noticed, that my "select unit" action, actually is more than a single action after you've added them to your control-group, because you have to either have multiple control-groups or use additional actions to actually get to the unit-selection you want.

i think doing things more than twice as fast is a big difference. starcraft isn't a turn-based game. time is a very limited resource.
and this is just a single custom command... the tool should be a whole library of those custom commands.

I AM VERY BUSY UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF APRIL

GOT RL TO DO, SRY :(

i will have very limited time in the next few weeks to actually come online, but i will try to response ASAP.
Maybe there will be the one or the other interested in this project by then :) else this is going to be a solo-project. (this project is going to happen, promised!)

here it is

PROJECT STATE

pre-alpha
creating first UI

• combining AvalanDock v2 and GalaxyEditor++

LOOKING FOR

anyone who is willing to help

ABOUT ME

I am a relative amateur regarding coding. If it comes to mapping and modding i could be categorized as "full newb". None the less: i am the "i-know-it-all" type of guy :) It will maybe be troublesome to deal with me. Just so you know beforehand.

DISCLAIMER:

_{Because i lack experience, there will be most likely some assumption i made in this thread, that will turn out to be false. If you notice something like this, please feel free to correct me. Also: i am going to use my own interpretation for explanation. You are free to disagree with my interpretation, but don't expect me to change, if you have no valid arguments ;)}

So... what is this project about?

EasyStarcraft (or EZSC) is aimed at the more casual Starcraft2 player. I want to give the players more options to customize the game to their needs and make some of the controls easier to handle.

A lot of the tasked, that you have to do in a Starcraft2 match, are redundant and do not change from match to match. For example: Most players have their own "control-group" layout, they follow each and every game. I want to give the players the option of pushing this "layout", they follow each and every game, to an actual "setting" they can pre-determine. They would have to spend a little work into creating these settings, but they would not need to manually create the control-group while they are in-game. They could focus on the match itself and do not need to search and click(!) for the units, they want in their control-group.

I think the game as of now forces you to much to click on the screen. As a lot of you may know: using the mouse for game-commands is very slow compared to a simple key-stroke. This is one of the reasons why people play with control-groups.

Concrete: if you play with EZSC your units would be automatically added into your pre-determined control-groups after unit-creation. But EZSC doesn't stop here. This is just the essential to get started with this project ;)

I want to provide the users of EZSC with some basic- and examplefunctions. Afterwards the user should be able to create his own "macros" and "custom-commands".

_{there is no command for a "spoiler" in this forum, so i can't give you the option to hide this example, but i wanted to at least provide one.}

for example a control group out of

• 4 Marines
• 2 SCVs
• 1 Widow Mine
• 1 Medivac

than i press my hotkey for the custom-command "build-outpost"(or however i wanna name it), which is only available while you have a control group of said composition selected:

1. the hotkey fires a load-command to all units into exactly that medivac(i don't need the medivac or the units in my screen)
2. i get a chain of 3 Click-Commands:
   1. burrow Widow Mine
   2. build Bunker
   3. build Missile Turret
   4. (indicating every click-command with a hower of a semi-transperent "unit"[like the normal building placement]and a sound)
   5. fire a check after every click, if all units are loaded=true, start moving (a parallel while loop would be great here)
3. the medivac flys to the position(s) and unloads
   1. Widow Mine burrowes on position defined by click 1
   2. SCV Builds Bunker on position defined by click 2
   3. SCV Builds Missile Turret on position defined by click 3
   4. (don't know at what point the 4 marines, yet... gonna decide it later^^)
4. add Bunker to Control Group
5. add Missile Turret to Control Group
6. @100%Bunker:
   1. load Marines into Bunker
   2. (maybe) load SCVs into Medivac
   3. update Control-Group to "Finished Outpost" or something

for smooth gameplay i would need to alter these commands (automaticly) if the control group changes (because a unit dies... not all units build, yet... or whatever)

_{copied from here}

there are a lot more functions i want to add, but i hope this can give you an idea of what kind of functions i am thinking of.

And how do you think all of this could work?

You can add triggers to a Starcraft2 map, with which all of these would be possible. The problem: these triggers would only work for yourself. Your enemy would most likely want to have other triggers, other pre-determined settings. So how can we accomplish that both players can use their very own set of triggers on the map?

The answer is pretty obvious, but not simple to accomplish: merge the trigger-files into one map and assign the triggers to a specific player. Now we have the problem, that we have to create a new map for every single match-up. (unless 2 players want to play a best of 5 on the same map or something)

I think here is a real big problem, not because it is impossible, but because it is hard to handle for the user of EZSC. I would like to automate this, so that the users of EZSC only have to push a single button to merge the triggers into one map, upload the map to the server and connect to the game.

... but i don't want EZSC to be an illegal tool to use: A lot of members here suggested, that blizzard would interpret such actions as "botting" and therefore "ban-worthy".
I really hope this project doesn't fail because it is "too complicated" to actually connect to an EZSC vs EZSC match.

...uhm balancing issues?

Yes, definitely.
The game is currently not designed for easy to handle controls and intuitive gameplay. A lot of units, abilities and so on would have to be rebalanced. I am a PvPler by heart. I love competitive gameplay and i want a balanced game-situation. But i think the balancing-question has to be pushed back for now. Maybe it is a good idea, after EZSC is "finished", to release it as "OpenBeta" and ask the community what they think of the current balance-situation and adjust accordingly until EZSC reaches a balanced situation, that is "Release"-worthy.

Layout/Design of EZSC

I have a dream. I have a dream of an easy to understand, intuitive and customizable GUI(GraphicUserInterface) :))
_{maybe even re-do the whole in-game GUI}

other things?

• wheely - introduce the MouseWheel as viable control. (i'm atm working on this)
• mini-map - 90% (or more) gameplay is mini-map focused: remove the "mini" and make a "map" (over whole screen with variable transparency)
  • this is to reduce a lot of the mouse-movement. makes distances you have to overcome with your cursor way shorter.

i'm sure i forgot some stuff. Maybe even really important stuff that i should have mentioned. If anything is unclear or you have suggestion: feel free to comment below.

so far
necaremus

PS: if you want to dig into some more information: check this thread (here i started the idea of EZSC)

@Alevice: Go i keep missing the point. i think this is true, because i have no idea about what "point" you are talking (i am serious here and would like clarification)
the bot-thingy?
@DOOMEDEARTH: Go ? "read as: project dead before started" ?

Quote from necaremus12333123123: Go

@DOOMEDEARTH: Go

i'm sorry, you are prolly right. i'm a very chaotic person, that usually /dumbs his thoughts down.

i gonna try to summarize this loose thought-collection in a new thread today or tomorrow :) (what would be the right sub-forum?)

delayed to tomorrow, because i want the post to be readable, which is a hard task for me to achieve (got a draft on my hard-drive - without blizzard bashing :D)

@LucidIguana: Go

sry, i may have overdone it with the blizzard bashing, but every guide/info/intro about the galaxy editor, even on this site, is at least once mentioning, that the galaxy editor is "lack-luster" (at best).

Quote:

Unfortunately Galaxy is far from the best scripting language when it comes to usability. The C style makes object orientated programming rather difficult. Also several lacking features greatly reduce usability to the point that normally trivial procedures become a headache to engineer

source: sc2mapsters.com

something else, that is extremely frustrating about the galaxy editor: i have to push like half the window left out of my screen, to see fucking buttons, no left-right scrollbar (which would be bad design already, but this is worse)

and i am definitely not the first to mention something like this, but as always: blizzard keeps ignoring

grml >_< i keep flaming, sry...

about your concern with "bot-ing": i could include a check-box "[ ]push merged map to server". if the thing is un-checked: the tool would not interact with the game at all.
... and automated match-searching would be impossible :/

i only think it would be quite annoying to manually upload and search for the created custom-map every time you want to start a match.

Quote from LucidIguana: Go

I don't honestly think that any of us know. What you're describing is pretty far out there, regardless of the platform. We spent some time chatting about this as a team and have basically concluded that it's very complex—potentially to unbounded limits, depending on how you took inputs. Just the act of recording a macro sounds very hard. You're in uncharted territory here—happy trails!

:)
that is about the reason, why i thought creating my own .exe would be a nice idea... would have just the problem of parsing the triggers, everything else would be a breath to program compared to using the galaxy editor.

the only thing "3rd-party-toolish" - besides creating this custom-map for each(!) match - would be match-making and -searching, because it should be pretty much impossible to find each other with the current search- and sort-algorithms blizzard is providing for custom maps.

and if they ban you for "i want to see the open custom-games a little bit different"... i don't know :/

tbh: i don't rly care if _I_ get banned, because i can't play SC2 myself anyway. but i don't want anyone to get banned, just because he/she is using my tool >-<

i've looked over the guides here and did a quick google search: i failed to find this :/
would rly appreciate a snippet or a link to a guide explaining how to do such a thing (wrote a PM to Alevice concerning this already)

uhm... i still have a question left:

i was assuming, that every match-up needs his own custom-map or custom-mod, because every player has his own "custom-trigger-library", that has to be fused. -> every single match-up has his very own trigger-library-combination.

or can each player load his triggers from his local hard-drive with a mod?
like:

 on MapInit() {
Player1.getTriggerLib(/local/dir/trigger.lib);
Player1.getMapLib(/local/dir/this.map);
Player2.getTriggerLib(/local/dir/trigger.lib);
Player2.getMapLib(/local/dir/this.map);
} 

//wrong syntax, of course^^

imgur

hope working now.
and sry for spam :D

@Alevice: Go

zzzZz just googled an image hoster and took the 1st one... i got no problems with it... still gonna take another one now :/

/edit: btw: this is how the post looks on my screen

@LucidIguana: Go

noticed myself and edited a link, here again bigger image