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    posted a message on DBZ Tribute Galaxy

    1. I don't condone such "edgy" behavior, for you see I am a man of the 1990s where the INTEGRITY of Bill Clinton is the absolute pinnacle of truthiness.

    2. It's all okay because you were a kid. Alrighty.

    3. This is an outright lie. The difference here is you have the advantage of the map pretty much being gone because of the collapse of so many Warcraft 3 map sites over the years. I had the map on an old computer and I know what I saw. If someone in your team lied to you, that's understandable though. The models from Rampage also had the kick, walk, and punching animations (I remember them kicking and punching repeatedly when using abilities).

    4. On your forums (if I may direct you here - http://z12.invisionfree.com/SupremeGaming/index.php?showtopic=2111) you blame "the people that took over DBZ Tribute after the original creators left." This is adampalicki. You are accusing him of something.

    5. As you stated in the post on your forum. This is what I went by to assume FT had done work on the models.

    6. Oh good, all of the features DBZ Tribute did better than you were THANKS to you. I HAVE to admit though, if you hadn't shown up we probably never would have seen some of that crap. But for some reason, I'm inclined to believe other maps would have started a level/stat based spell system even if DBZS was never made.

    7. Dammit, you're right. He backed off the second you threatened to internet sue him for sending you a virus over AIM (by his claims of course) which easily puts him at a B-average tops.

    8. You claim the discontinuation is a hard drive failure and not the reasons you told your community. This seems like a far more understandable reason to quit a project than "OMFG NEWBS STOLE MY SHIZZLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I CAN'T INTERNET SUE THEM!!!!!!!!" Congratulations on your line of work though. I've tried my hand at just TRIGGERING Warcraft 3 maps, and it's just not something I can do. I have nothing but respect for the people that not only put themselves through that insane process, but can actually find ENJOYMENT from doing such work. I always found it quite impressive, no sarcasm.

    9. I wholeheartedly agree, competition breeds innovation. This is probably why DBZ maps in general died out on Warcraft 3 when Gotenkz quit updating. With "the pinnacle" having been reached, nobody else really saw a reason to keep with it, so they left for other games. Also, DotA makes me want to suicide.

    And my final note. Gotenkz left again and I quit Starcraft 2 because Blizzard will not be changing the popularity system. Future endeavors, ect. Don't bother with anything particularly long just to try to come out on top. I don't know if you noticed, but nobody cares about this project-that-never-will-be and I doubt people care about a few long dead Warcraft 3 maps when Starcraft 2 has a far more impressive editor that I will never be able to figure out how to work. I find it hilarious though that you said things on your forum along the lines of some Blizzard employee leaking the beta to you JUST for the editor when beta keys became a dime a dozen. Oh hindsight. If only we had you at all times.

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on [New video] Debates: HINTS

    Oh, I did a quick write up on the official forums about why I think Debates isn't popular, if anyone cares.

    http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/374717581

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on [New video] Debates: HINTS

    Debates is absolutely awesome. It's like a chat room map, if people are too dumb to debate (like me) or a way for people to make logical and innovative arguments in a completely anonymous and relaxing environment. The point is rarely to "win" debates, it's all about the fun. Too bad the popularity system kills all the awesome maps like this :<

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on D&D coming back in 4th version

    Start sending emails I guess? :< I would.

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on D&D coming back in 4th version
    Quote from Bibendus: Go

    @MarcusTulliusCicero: Go

    I think there is a kind of licensing for videogames too. Think to games like Baldur's gate or Neverwinter Nights, I doubt they were freely inspired to DD rules without paying a license for it ;)

    I'm seriously at a loss here :< I'm decently sure they MUST have gotten some sort of license (hell, isn't Drizzt a secret killable NPC in Baldur's Gate 1 or 2?), but I just don't know where a Starcraft pay map would fall in. If I had to guess though, I would say Wizards get royalties on video games, rather than a one-time license payment (I could easily be wrong though).

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on D&D coming back in 4th version
    Quote from TDelamay: Go

    @Bibendus: Go

    Another way to offer demo is to limit the content available. For exemple, on a hero map, only 1 or 2 hero can be selected in the free version. That would allow demo versions to mix with premium versions. I wonder how they'll handle version updates though.

    I thought that was what CurseClient was for :D Seriously, from what I understand (and from what I infer WITH NO KNOWLEDGE of how the game ACTUALLY works), it seems that you'll never have a "permanent" map folder, like what we had in WC3. I have no idea how the maps are stored right now, but I figure Blizzard will want all maps to be cached - downloading them will simply tie them to your account. If this pans out to being the case, then I suspect that the locking system will prevent a person on another account from uploading a new version of a map. On the other hand, custom maps aren't actually supported right now, so there could very well be a folder and what not for your downloaded maps. In that case, well, that's what CurseClient is for :D But, once again, I'm not very good with computers, I have no clue how people even figured out how to find the current map files, much less how they started using them to make custom maps before the editor is even out!

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on Items and Heroes

    Is there a working map with the inventory out yet? That's one of the requirements.

    Posted in: Miscellaneous Development
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    posted a message on D&D coming back in 4th version
    Quote from Sixen: Go

    @Truhan: Go

    Don't think there will be a static number for price. Basically, Blizzard takes a percentage of the total earnings per map (not sure what the percentage is, may vary depending on your price), but i'm sure there will be a min/max price range.

    Quote from Kanaru: Go

    I'm sure it will depend on the map. We don't even know the requirements to have it as a premium map yet. I imagine that if a game is large enough (in content) and of a great quality, it could be more expensive, maybe $15. Maybe more, who knows?

    They did after all want people to get small teams together to make games, which would probably work better if the workers were getting paid. They've said that themselves, so whatever is being charged should be profitable and be relative to the amount of work put into it.

    Good points both of these.

    Quote from Bibendus: Go

    Yeah, consider that mods like counter strike were completely new games worthing 15$ and more. Considering that charged maps should be a minimum % i think blizzard will decide personally the maximum price cap for each map.

    The requirement should just be the amount of popularity of the map, as we can see in this screenshoot http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/StarCraft_II_on_BattleNet_2.0.jpg

    Then that would mean pay maps would have to start out free...How else could they get popular before getting set a price? I'm sure there'd be some way around that though. But I do hope the cap is small (I REALLY don't wanna pay $15 for StarCraft: Ghost when my phone is shut off).

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on D&D coming back in 4th version
    Quote from Bibendus: Go

    I was asking infos for that ;) I think that using the SRD engine to make a new SC2 based content can be done, the hard thing is to understand what DD content can be used or not.

    In any case we still need to know how the chargins system will work, it's too early to say anything.

    It'll be similar to iPhone apps, I'm sure. Blizzard will probably cap the amount you can charge (or will only let you charge $1).

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on Items and Heroes
    Quote from Sixen: Go

    @Alevice: Go

    The bigger we get, the better prizes we can give out, Levi, :P.

    Liiiiiiiiiiiike...for-pay maps...paid for?

    Posted in: Miscellaneous Development
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    posted a message on D&D coming back in 4th version
    Quote from Bibendus: Go

    I don't know if it will be charged, I think I'm going to implement a good free map with the DD engine and using the same engine to make more adventures for a small fee. Consider that money increases the beauty and time spent on the work ;)

    Noooooooooooooooo :< It is your choice, but I think you're gonna have to be careful about that SRD.

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on D&D coming back in 4th version
    Quote from Bibendus: Go

    Here is the 4th edition SRD, i forgot to link it ;) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome

    P.S.

    I stopped working on calim river cause i stopped playing warcraft ;)

    :< I'm afraid I'm no lawyer :< :< I miss Calim River :< :< :< :< It was one of the last maps worth my time on WarCraft 3. I honestly don't think there should be any problem, unless you decide to start charging for your map (please don't :<), as making money (or costing a company money) are liable grounds for project termination or a lawsuit. If worst comes to worse, you can always claim no affiliation to Dungeons and Dragons (even though almost every fantasy game ever is based off D&D).

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on D&D coming back in 4th version

    I LOVED Calim River! I was so upset you quit updating :< I don't have the 4th SRD, but I would LOVE to see anything you pull out of your mapmaker's hat 'o trix, even if you just do a 3.5 map again.

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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    posted a message on Items and Heroes

    Some guy just posted this picture of the alleged inventory system on the StarCraft 2 official boards (Renee.islga):

    http://bbs.islga.org/attachment/Mon_1004/90_2086_3babe98103ebdb7.jpg

    Can you guys confirm whether or not it's a fake? He claimed the character sheet is converted from a bag, by the way.

    Posted in: Miscellaneous Development
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    posted a message on DBZ Tribute Galaxy

    First of all, I want to say I have NO experience AT ALL in ANY form of coding, so I'll probably be looking for a good coder to actually lead this project. I would prefer a "team" of people that focus on several different factors so that no one single team member gets overwhelmed with work, and we can afford to lose one or two members to that dastardly villain, real life. The title I'd prefer is "project director" more than "project manager" or anything with "developer." I've mostly just been an idea guy my entire life, and I'm hoping the Galaxy Editor will help me realize some of my ideas.

    A "Brief" History of DBZ Tribute

    Back in the days of Warcraft 3, a DBZ themed map started showing up called "DBZ Rampage." It is unknown who originated this map, because everyone and their mother had their own spin-off version of Rampage. People would do all sorts of crazy crap different, such as DBGT characters, movie rather than story arc characters as the "evil" team. DBZ Tribute was made by Womplord, as a tribute to DBZ and the Rampage maps based off of said maps. Tribute quickly got bigger than any single Rampage map because of the top quality, and it was no longer stated in the credits to be a tribute to Rampage. Where the Rampage maps were largely stripped down terrain with astonishingly little content (and only the occasional working transformation system), Tribute had a working Super Saiyan transformation system (based off the oh-so-common 200 gold depletion standard), creeps that gave stats, and a saga system.

    Womplord quit working on Tribute, and it seemed like it would be the next Rampage, but with higher quality spin-offs. An intermittent version was made that a mapmaker (sometimes known as a CARTOGRAPHER, ckknight) known as Antz (then working on Tank Wars Gold Edition) picked up. Under the alias of "Gotenkz," he called his spin-off DBZ Tribute Ultra. Ultra has since effectively dominated the DBZ mapmaking scene. The transformation system remained as the rudimentary "gold" system that put Saiyans (which dominated the "good" team) at a disadvantage, having to time their bonuses. In version 7 or 8 of Ultra, Saiyans were given the bonus of a % damage buff, while permanent transformations only offered pure stats. In the next version (8.1 I believe), the transformations were taken off the traditional gold standard in favor of a mana-drain system (with more mana drained for stronger transformations). Transformations were also no longer items.

    Between V8.1 and V9, a mapmaker called Hexenlord called the Ultra community and Gotenkz out. He proclaimed his map (DBZ Supreme RPG) would be the greatest map of all time, that Ultra wouldn't even compare. Though Gotenkz wanted no fight, Hexenlord continued to bash the map and the community, creating a long-standing rivalry between the communities. DBZ Supreme RPG focused almost completely on aesthetics. It used DBZ models ripped from a Rampage map, which were themselves ripped from ESF (though Hexenlord will vehemently deny it is even possible, it has even been confirmed by the original ripper that they were taken from ESF as well as several other professional modelers) as well as multiplicative stat-based transformations that were on a more "realistic" timer-based system. Spells that would automatically be upgraded at certain levels were also bragged about, though the effects ended up looking nothing like the moves shown in the anime.

    This competition proved to be extremely good for the Ultra community. Gotenkz quickly went to work on his own multiplicative stat-based transformation system and good-looking spell effects. In 8.1 (or 9.2), spells were based off of characters' "energy" stat (that replaced Intelligence, but otherwise acted exactly like it). This made picking your spells as you level a strategic choice. When Supreme was finally released after much delay and anticipation, it was considered a major bomb. It is largely thought Hexenlord instigated a rivalry to heighten the popularity of his map (which did work, until it was released). The timed transformation system never worked, the way multiplicative stat-based transformations were programmed was laughably simple (characters only gained stats from levels, so a 3x transformation was just a different hero that gain three times the stats per level), the saving system was incredibly buggy, the Dragonball wishes were all pointless except the wish to get a better character, and Hexenlord had managed to piss off an extremely good coder that made a code generator for his map as retaliation.

    After all this mess, DBZ Tribute Ultra was stagnant at V9.3. V10 promised to be revolutionary, aesthetically, as every character was to have a custom made (not ripped) model from modelers orgrim and FinalTyrant (also the modeler for DBZ Supreme RPG). These models were made to be efficient, unlike the ESF rips, and Saiyan hair transformations wouldn't be entirely new models (instead, they would act as doodads placed on the head). After well over a year (possibly even two) of absolutely no word from Gotenkz, the website died. The person that had bought the website (unimatrixzer0) had passed the billing on to Gotenkz and he had failed to pay for the next year of the website running. At this point, Ultra was considered dead and all the work from V10 was considered gone. Some versions from former community members (Reverted, Exterted) popped up, but never rose above Ultra's quickly waning popularity. DBZ Tribute Elite (made by ikcilapmada) was made, with some models (these were re-ripped from ESF to be far more efficient), semi-regular updates, and some new content (secret characters, more sagas). Hexenlord canceled DBZ Supreme RPG because Elite used these ESF models that Hexenlord insisted he had copyrights on.

    My Brief History in WarCraft 3

    I used to go by the alias Tsunami_Shijo, and I was a major part of the original Angel Arena maker's clan (Clan AA, US West, Lil_Devil_Child). I tinkered around with maps a little bit, attempting to make my own DBZ themed Angel Arena. I don't know where my zeal for the anime came from, as I had only seen a small portion of it, and watched it very irregularly. I eventually started working (from an already made, unprotected map) on a DBZ ORPG map (no saving mind you), inspired by DBZ Tribute. When Womplord quit, I didn't even notice. But when DBZ Tribute Ultra V3 came out, I DID take notice. I've been with the Ultra community ever since under the new alias of Truhan (which I still use today). When Hexenlord came around, I played both communities, using my current alias for Tribute and my old alias for Supreme. I wanted to be a major part of both communities, but I eventually decided to stick with the Ultra community. Though I did eventually watch the entire Dragonball series, it really never interested me quite like the WarCraft 3 maps. When the Ultra website went down, however, I effectively ended my WarCraft 3 career.

    My Goal with StarCraft 2

    Recently, Gotenkz has come back to the community. Adam effectively canceled Elite, but now works with Gotenkz on Ultra V10 (which is in open beta testing). Some of the V10 features are lost, but most have come back (the hand-made models, some better effects). Some discussion has come up about bringing Ultra to SC2 as DBZ Tribute Galaxy. I discussed this with Adam, and he says he will not be doing a conversion and would not be part of a Galaxy version of Tribute (though he would be part of the community). He doesn't want DBZ to be the only theme he's known for. Gotenkz also doesn't seem too keen on the idea of remaking the map from scratch in a new editor (remember, he just picked up where others had left off). This has left the prospect of a DBZ Tribute Galaxy map open, and I want to make sure DBZ Tribute lives on. I want to make sure all of the known people that put work into what Ultra has become to receive co-credit for inspiring others to continue the project.

    I want this project to be FREE and OPEN. I want this map to be the other extreme of Hexenlord's intense obsession with keeping "his" things under "his" (user)name. As long as all the project members get credit, I want other to be able to easily see what has been done to make the map, and even be able to recreate the map themselves if they wished. I believe this sort of openness could have kept the DBZ mapmaking community together (and possibly even more innovative maps), had Gotenkz offered up the same openness. I WOULD consider donations if DBZ Tribute Galaxy ends up good enough, but not for me. I'm probably not even going to get started on the map until the GUI editor comes out (though I'm definitely getting SC2 on Day One), so right now I'm mostly looking for someone to try and get started on some of the models. I noticed the Ɯberlisk a while back, and was hoping something similar can be done to place Super Saiyan heads on the original models so that it won't need a new model for each transformation.

    Some Intended Features

    In Ultra, heroes are currently chosen by the player number/color. V10 b10 of Ultra (the upcoming beta version) will include a hero selection system, a feature I've always wanted in Tribute. In this project, I would like a Tavern-style selection system for characters, modes, and possibly starting points.

    I would like to use maplinking to make huge saga zones (like a massive Namek for the Namek story arc sagas).

    I want to keep a LOT of the iconic features from Ultra (multiplicative stat-based transformations, chaining, stats from killing monsters).

    I want to include several different stats this time around. I heard only three stats would be visible in StarCraft 2, but I played a custom map that had four stats visible. It looked like the UI has enough room for a fifth stat, so I am assuming there are five possible displayable stats: Strength - increases auto-attacking damage (and possibly a chance to critically strike creeps and other players) Agility - increases movement and attack speed (and possibly evasiveness against creeps but not other players) Ki Energy - increases maximum ki and ki regeneration Toughness - increases armor and hp Special Attack Power - increases the strength of ALL ki-based attacks

    Obviously, SAP can be rolled back into Energy, if needs be. In the end, I want all ki-based attacks to use at least one stat in a different way (like perhaps agility grants a short stun to one ability, while another ability could use strength as the primary stat that its power is based off of). I will want at least one coder working on spells, preferably two.

    Because of the way I want spells to work this time around, I also want transformations to act differently. In Ultra, most stat transformations affect all stats. I want almost every transformation to offer something different in this project. For example, the Super Saiyan transformation may offer 2x to all the stats, but Ultra Super Saiyan would offer 2.5x to Strength, Toughness, and Special Attack power; but only 1.5x to Agility and Ki Energy. One of the key reasons why I want the ki-based attack power as a separate stat is because of transformations like Ultra Super Saiyan, where the attacks SHOULD be stronger, but you shouldn't be able to use as many of them. However, I want ALL a character's stats to be visible and easily understandable for players. Ideally, I will want one coder dedicated to this.

    I'm honestly not sure if I wanna recreate some of the iconic terrain from Ultra, especially since I intend to use maplinking (if it's available). Since everything else will have to be made from scratch, I wouldn't mind having one to three people working on terrain and mob placement.

    I honestly don't care whether models are ripped, converted, or hand-made. I just want as many models as we can get for the playable characters (first and foremost) and saga bosses (and all of their forms). I'm willing to take on a modeling team, but I would prefer community submissions if the community gets big enough.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well, that's it. Most of this information is useless, but I wanted to put this project out there before anyone else had a chance to hijack it and claim all the work as their own. I'm willing to go completely uncredited, so long as I can get a good team together. I might tinker around in the GUI a bit, just to get the project started, but I have no intention of learning any form of coding. There's a reason I'm majoring in Criminal Justice, and it's NOT because I've always wanted to make my own game. If anyone's interested, do send me a message.

    Posted in: Project Workplace
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