The hotkeys take a short while to get used to; though if you're playing many other games, and not smashcraft all day (like you should be doing :3), you could easily be mixed up often, reverting to the former games you've played.
NEVER make a game more easier than it should be. The fact that the a class/hero is so difficult to use is its selling point for many; people will try to master this hero, deem it as their own, and build a competitive connection to those with equally difficult heroes. On the other side of the spectrum, people will deem it pointless that their innate abilities don't match up to those around, while others will be crushed just as soon as they get the hand on things, causing them to /ragequit. Simply, a hero that takes a whole lot of skill to use, but causes massive amounts of damage, is badass; some will try, some will fail, and some will succeed. Making it easier for one portion of the players isn't going to satisfy the whole of the playerbase. It's very possible to make everyone happy, though it requires either a lot of intuition, or a lot of knowledge to create that effect. ;3
A time limit is a viable option; as earlier stated, 5 minutes would be perfect for matches with a kiting healer, Sarina vs. Sarina, or Ezzerat vs. Ezzerat . Having the outcome based on remaining health will take out many of the mechanics and connotative ties to what makes a fighting game enjoyable in the end.
Agreed about fog of war; It would definitely enhance gameplay and require more tactics to function. Randomness is a charm for players. Allowing them to choose will make them see how many maps there really are, increasing the need for more maps; there needs to be a sense of mystery, background, and certain aspects uncontrollable to stimulate the feel for the game. Allowing choice will have people wanting to choose what their abilities are as well ;3.
About Sarina. One way to balance her is to allow a healing cap; however, that would cause disappointment for many people who seek to rely on healing (pretty much a foot to the face). Another way is to have many more abilities that work in different ways that require you to time them accordingly, pulling off chain heals; this would be a bit too complex and would require a lot of planning, however. Another way to balance her is to adjust her current heals to be more based on skill, than on healing output.
Here's what I have in mind:
Channeled Healing: Channeling is a horrible burden, in general, but to a healer who has nothing else to do but heal, channeling isn't a burden at all. To fix this, you could either make using other abilities more worth it, or you could make the ability work only out-of-combat. Instead of a channeling heal, you could have it be a bandage-type spell that is only maintainable on one ally at a time (not self).
AoE Heal: Good, as long as there is a spell-cast time.
Emergency Self-heal: Most medics use this as a self-heal in general, even when there is no control effect on them at all. Allowing it to heal only when a buff is canceled would balance it a lot more.
Ultimate: Considering how each ability is, or is about to be, this ability pretty much is the most balanced ultimate for this hero.
Yes, and I've had a concept for a map like this for a few years now. I put it on hold for certain, personal reasons, and found out that you picked it up in the end. Coincidence or not, I knew it would come back eventually; now that it is back, I want to make sure it will be the best game it can be possible.
I'm glad you picked up well on the melee attacks; I tried to do this with triggers back in WC3, and was unsuccessful (I was so inexperienced back then).
Once you show acceptance to those who challenge your personal way of doing things, you'll soon be able to see things in a logical, and then philosophical manner. A good thing I notice is how you retain your flow of ideas and creativity when you speak, keeping a neutral point of view, ignoring the need of taking a side (very good!).
Pretty soon you'll be able to plan everything from the start like I do. ;3
Balance in correlation to what? Eachother? What about eachother? The damage? If so, how will changing the damage output of one class effect the others?
You can build this game by feel, but you're going to have to try hard as hell not to try and define anything. Try to define something, and you have to deal with connotative definitions, and the effects of subconscious manipulative and psychological algorithms. Accept everything you come across, and this game will fall, although you will personally succeed
Making this game, however, is going to have you thinking abstractly; anything else will bring the game into the ground. If you truly want to make this game the way you're going about it now, stop listening to everyone, and allow the game to flourish by your own intuition. The moment you listen to someone else, you'll kill this game, the same way many dead games out there have died.
If you're ready to take the concept of games, life, and everything in your consciousness, then let me know.
As of now, everyone is your enemy; the more it seems naught, the moreso it is. Once you can only see the best in everyone, and love the presence of human nature, you'll be the one progressing.
Adding more classes is going to be difficult if you don't have an overall concept. Having new concepts spawn off of spoofs, common ideals, and spontaneity, will only build up to turmoil in the end. I'm glad you picked the main 4 archetypes; the most common four-part concept map in many, many games.
Unless you have an overall plan for hero development, taking ideas from other sources without filtering it for pre-balance will cause this game to crash eventually (whether it is frustration, laziness, or influx of complaints). Again, I've seen this in many, many, MANY games.
How does this relate to the core mechanics of the game, other than number crunching?
The only conditional requirement is the caster's timing and attention, compared to damage classes who have to aim, time between two moving targets, and decide exactly how each ability will hit in correlation to the enemy's attention, timing, etc. In short, healing doesn't require as much skill, and therefor is deemed as OP. The only people who will have a say on this are people who are biased towards DPS or HPS, of which contain different connotative concepts; pointless to talk about either one in balance to eachother, unless you have someone with a pure point of view, or at least compare the viewpoints on each side of the bias spectrum.
From much experience in comparing philosophical concepts between gameplay mechanics of games that only follow damage/healing formulas and/or require a movement/timing/real-time planning mechanic, for a game that only crunches numbers (follows damage/healing independently of any other mechanic), you need a sense of conditional balance: a concept that people will only be able to grasp intuitionally, causing many complaints, and changes in the wrong direction. I've seen this many, many times.
Conditional balance is the tie between each ability, and the gameplay mechanics. Each ability has an individual conditional balance, and each ability in correlation to eachother has a conditional balance that is related to eachother's conditional balance. Individual conditional balance, based on a three-part concept map (the most common) is described as reaction, timing, and placement; each ability has at least one of these concepts. For example, an ability that causes direct damage on just a target, instantly, will only have individual conditional balance in timing; if it had to be aimed or had to be in melee range, it would be conditionally balanced between timing and placement; if you split the damage into direct + the rest of the damage when the target hits you or something, then the ability would be balanced evenly across each concept, regardless of number damage.
Conditional Balance between each ability is a bit tricky, and is found only through philosophical concepts. The balance between each ability isn't the number, but the skill, and conditional balance between each ability as a whole. It's like trying to find a correlation between three or more variables, you would need a three-dimensional (or more) graph. Most people mistake this for how the numbers interact, which is true when individual conditional balance is met by the player through experience; experience is based on memorization, not solely skill. In order to achieve full conditional balance, you would need to balance healing and damage, first of all, which is what I'm trying to let you realize for the future of this game (or another game).
When you think 1 DPS class = 1, HPS class = 0, 3 is better than 2 when 3 DPS is against 2 DPS and 1 HPS.
This is number crunching once more; the only thing deciding the battle is HPS vs. DPS, which is exactly what I'm talking about.
You mustn't just think of situations through a DPS class, but a DPS with skill as a variable. Not always is someone going to dish out the maximum DPS possible, but with how healers are now, with instant target and clicks, the healer is always going to dish out the maximum HPS possible. Skill is reliant on the mechanics, not the numbers and formulas of the abilities.
After playing many games in which healing is a cornerstone, and a requirement to have any effectiveness, I've concluded that it's the mechanics, opposed to number crunching, that decided a balance between damage and healing.
Since this game is about skill, and those without skill and proper timing fail, the only way to balance healing is to make it skill based as well, which seems a bit benign at first. Perhaps healing that only occurs on hit;
Ex (using EQ2 ability formatting, as it's easier to understand):
When target takes damage, this ability will cast Regrowth of the Void
Regenerates health equal to 25% of incoming damage plus 3% of the target's max health over 1 second
Lasts until 5 hits are taken
Ex2:
Target: Enemy; No cast; Reuse: 10 seconds; Duration: 20 seconds
When target takes damage, this ability will cast Void's Unforgiving Touch
Instantly regenerates 20 health to allies in an area of effect around the target
As opposed to just clicking allies to heal then running away, you would have to wait for a condition, and time it well in order to succeed. You could even have abilities based completely on skill:
Target: Enemy; No cast; Reuse: 3 seconds; No duration
Does 10 damage to enemies in a frontal arch
If enemyt is killed by this attack, this ability will cast Void Reaper
-Instantly restores 100% of max health of all allies currently on the field
I've been playing this for a while now, and I've concluded that it's a very fun map. Of course, before you get to where it's fun, it's only confusing as hell.
Other than the amazing game mechanics, that have never been seen before, blatantly hit you in the face, the new button layout really makes you wonder what is going on.
For new players, perhaps you could add a summary text, or color code it; all of the abilities look the same for a new player.
There are constantly people who are just sitting there, trying to work out what each ability does, while they click aimlessly around, only to die. Many of them leave the game before even trying to figure out why everyone else knows what they're doing.
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@thebaron87: Go
The hotkeys take a short while to get used to; though if you're playing many other games, and not smashcraft all day (like you should be doing :3), you could easily be mixed up often, reverting to the former games you've played.
NEVER make a game more easier than it should be. The fact that the a class/hero is so difficult to use is its selling point for many; people will try to master this hero, deem it as their own, and build a competitive connection to those with equally difficult heroes. On the other side of the spectrum, people will deem it pointless that their innate abilities don't match up to those around, while others will be crushed just as soon as they get the hand on things, causing them to /ragequit. Simply, a hero that takes a whole lot of skill to use, but causes massive amounts of damage, is badass; some will try, some will fail, and some will succeed. Making it easier for one portion of the players isn't going to satisfy the whole of the playerbase. It's very possible to make everyone happy, though it requires either a lot of intuition, or a lot of knowledge to create that effect. ;3
A time limit is a viable option; as earlier stated, 5 minutes would be perfect for matches with a kiting healer, Sarina vs. Sarina, or Ezzerat vs. Ezzerat . Having the outcome based on remaining health will take out many of the mechanics and connotative ties to what makes a fighting game enjoyable in the end.
Agreed about fog of war; It would definitely enhance gameplay and require more tactics to function. Randomness is a charm for players. Allowing them to choose will make them see how many maps there really are, increasing the need for more maps; there needs to be a sense of mystery, background, and certain aspects uncontrollable to stimulate the feel for the game. Allowing choice will have people wanting to choose what their abilities are as well ;3.
@EchoedRequiem: Go
About Sarina. One way to balance her is to allow a healing cap; however, that would cause disappointment for many people who seek to rely on healing (pretty much a foot to the face). Another way is to have many more abilities that work in different ways that require you to time them accordingly, pulling off chain heals; this would be a bit too complex and would require a lot of planning, however. Another way to balance her is to adjust her current heals to be more based on skill, than on healing output.
Here's what I have in mind:
Channeled Healing: Channeling is a horrible burden, in general, but to a healer who has nothing else to do but heal, channeling isn't a burden at all. To fix this, you could either make using other abilities more worth it, or you could make the ability work only out-of-combat. Instead of a channeling heal, you could have it be a bandage-type spell that is only maintainable on one ally at a time (not self).
AoE Heal: Good, as long as there is a spell-cast time.
Emergency Self-heal: Most medics use this as a self-heal in general, even when there is no control effect on them at all. Allowing it to heal only when a buff is canceled would balance it a lot more.
Ultimate: Considering how each ability is, or is about to be, this ability pretty much is the most balanced ultimate for this hero.
@Mephs: Go
Yes, and I've had a concept for a map like this for a few years now. I put it on hold for certain, personal reasons, and found out that you picked it up in the end. Coincidence or not, I knew it would come back eventually; now that it is back, I want to make sure it will be the best game it can be possible.
I'm glad you picked up well on the melee attacks; I tried to do this with triggers back in WC3, and was unsuccessful (I was so inexperienced back then).
@Mephs: Go
Success!
Once you show acceptance to those who challenge your personal way of doing things, you'll soon be able to see things in a logical, and then philosophical manner. A good thing I notice is how you retain your flow of ideas and creativity when you speak, keeping a neutral point of view, ignoring the need of taking a side (very good!).
Pretty soon you'll be able to plan everything from the start like I do. ;3
@Mephs: Go
Balance in correlation to what? Eachother? What about eachother? The damage? If so, how will changing the damage output of one class effect the others?
You can build this game by feel, but you're going to have to try hard as hell not to try and define anything. Try to define something, and you have to deal with connotative definitions, and the effects of subconscious manipulative and psychological algorithms. Accept everything you come across, and this game will fall, although you will personally succeed
Making this game, however, is going to have you thinking abstractly; anything else will bring the game into the ground. If you truly want to make this game the way you're going about it now, stop listening to everyone, and allow the game to flourish by your own intuition. The moment you listen to someone else, you'll kill this game, the same way many dead games out there have died.
If you're ready to take the concept of games, life, and everything in your consciousness, then let me know.
As of now, everyone is your enemy; the more it seems naught, the moreso it is. Once you can only see the best in everyone, and love the presence of human nature, you'll be the one progressing.
This is your final warning.
@Mephs: Go
If you have an overall concept for hero development, then what is it?
Adding more classes is going to be difficult if you don't have an overall concept. Having new concepts spawn off of spoofs, common ideals, and spontaneity, will only build up to turmoil in the end. I'm glad you picked the main 4 archetypes; the most common four-part concept map in many, many games.
Unless you have an overall plan for hero development, taking ideas from other sources without filtering it for pre-balance will cause this game to crash eventually (whether it is frustration, laziness, or influx of complaints). Again, I've seen this in many, many, MANY games.
@Mephs: Go
How does this relate to the core mechanics of the game, other than number crunching?
The only conditional requirement is the caster's timing and attention, compared to damage classes who have to aim, time between two moving targets, and decide exactly how each ability will hit in correlation to the enemy's attention, timing, etc. In short, healing doesn't require as much skill, and therefor is deemed as OP. The only people who will have a say on this are people who are biased towards DPS or HPS, of which contain different connotative concepts; pointless to talk about either one in balance to eachother, unless you have someone with a pure point of view, or at least compare the viewpoints on each side of the bias spectrum.
From much experience in comparing philosophical concepts between gameplay mechanics of games that only follow damage/healing formulas and/or require a movement/timing/real-time planning mechanic, for a game that only crunches numbers (follows damage/healing independently of any other mechanic), you need a sense of conditional balance: a concept that people will only be able to grasp intuitionally, causing many complaints, and changes in the wrong direction. I've seen this many, many times.
Conditional balance is the tie between each ability, and the gameplay mechanics. Each ability has an individual conditional balance, and each ability in correlation to eachother has a conditional balance that is related to eachother's conditional balance. Individual conditional balance, based on a three-part concept map (the most common) is described as reaction, timing, and placement; each ability has at least one of these concepts. For example, an ability that causes direct damage on just a target, instantly, will only have individual conditional balance in timing; if it had to be aimed or had to be in melee range, it would be conditionally balanced between timing and placement; if you split the damage into direct + the rest of the damage when the target hits you or something, then the ability would be balanced evenly across each concept, regardless of number damage.
Conditional Balance between each ability is a bit tricky, and is found only through philosophical concepts. The balance between each ability isn't the number, but the skill, and conditional balance between each ability as a whole. It's like trying to find a correlation between three or more variables, you would need a three-dimensional (or more) graph. Most people mistake this for how the numbers interact, which is true when individual conditional balance is met by the player through experience; experience is based on memorization, not solely skill. In order to achieve full conditional balance, you would need to balance healing and damage, first of all, which is what I'm trying to let you realize for the future of this game (or another game).
@Mephs: Go
When you think 1 DPS class = 1, HPS class = 0, 3 is better than 2 when 3 DPS is against 2 DPS and 1 HPS.
This is number crunching once more; the only thing deciding the battle is HPS vs. DPS, which is exactly what I'm talking about.
You mustn't just think of situations through a DPS class, but a DPS with skill as a variable. Not always is someone going to dish out the maximum DPS possible, but with how healers are now, with instant target and clicks, the healer is always going to dish out the maximum HPS possible. Skill is reliant on the mechanics, not the numbers and formulas of the abilities.
After playing many games in which healing is a cornerstone, and a requirement to have any effectiveness, I've concluded that it's the mechanics, opposed to number crunching, that decided a balance between damage and healing.
Since this game is about skill, and those without skill and proper timing fail, the only way to balance healing is to make it skill based as well, which seems a bit benign at first. Perhaps healing that only occurs on hit;
Ex (using EQ2 ability formatting, as it's easier to understand):
Target: Ally; Cast: 1.5 seconds; Reuse: 15 seconds; Duration: 30 seconds
When target takes damage, this ability will cast Regrowth of the Void
Ex2:
Target: Enemy; No cast; Reuse: 10 seconds; Duration: 20 seconds
When target takes damage, this ability will cast Void's Unforgiving Touch
As opposed to just clicking allies to heal then running away, you would have to wait for a condition, and time it well in order to succeed. You could even have abilities based completely on skill:
Target: Enemy; No cast; Reuse: 3 seconds; No duration
Does 10 damage to enemies in a frontal arch
I've been playing this for a while now, and I've concluded that it's a very fun map. Of course, before you get to where it's fun, it's only confusing as hell.
Other than the amazing game mechanics, that have never been seen before, blatantly hit you in the face, the new button layout really makes you wonder what is going on.
For new players, perhaps you could add a summary text, or color code it; all of the abilities look the same for a new player.
There are constantly people who are just sitting there, trying to work out what each ability does, while they click aimlessly around, only to die. Many of them leave the game before even trying to figure out why everyone else knows what they're doing.