Now, back to religion. You guys should have in mind that none of you will change ideas of anybody in here. I had countless religious debates before, and they always end up the same. Things won't be different here.
What God did was write the code for everything(he wanted) , and then he hit the COMPILE button, and it executed without error.
Do you know what impossible miraculous chances/odds it is for you and us to be here today?. Have you the slightest idea?. How the moon was formed, how water was created on the planet, the formation of protein and DNA?. Ive studied and researched all of that(among other things). Everything just points toward intelligent design, its almost impossible to think otherwise.
Can you really say chance/randomness/luck is the reason for everything?. And what is chance/randomness/luck then?. You have more faith than me then in your belief if you think that.
That's really one sided point of view. We don't know how long things are. "intelligent design" perfectly possibly can be effect of matter/non-matter moving towards more harmonized structure. So we can't really say that something is "designed"; it's organized.
Organization is caused due electromagnetic field which is caused by current which is caused by charge which is caused by electrons which are made of all those smallest things, which people still try to find and as i say they won't because it's just matter or perspective. There's no Universe's pixel. The smaller world does not need to have trees and other people; shape or form. Energy, movement is enough.
We know we are made of cells. Cells are also made from something. This something is also made of something and so on until infinity.
You say it's designed by someone/something. We made PCs that are effect of one matter (us) affecting other matter (the fact they don't live it's just our property. We should say 'they' are different than 'us').
The entire organization is everywhere, it's just the scale which makes it seems that's not there. So to consider anything at our scale to be designed, in my opinion is incorrect. It's more like thrown out.
Furthermore, we can't say where our roots are. The organization could take some time. You say chances are miraculous impossible for us to be here. We could be anything else and you would say same thing.
Just think outside of the box. Our form, our senses, our abilities are just one of endless amount of possibilities. It's just senses that create this illusion of 'being' in proper way. What we call "life" it's just an occurrence. It's not a gift. It's not good or bad vs other matter. Stuff in space spin yet we don't say it lives.
Imo only proper definition of "God" is a 'source'. Not any intelligent being. More of a cause. Root.
Fun thing is that any belief is actually based on hearing about something from someone. There's little to none own thought in this. Just think about how your own beliefs were triggered.
You hear some claim about something and you either accept is as true or not. The word 'belief' on which all religions etc are based actually by definition mean "I know it's true even without being sure". In Christianity there's actually something like "Believe without seeing and you will be blessed". Clever.
Now if you think about it, on how the person telling you this knows this, there are only 3 options:
They heard it from someone else
They made it up (for any reasons)
They had contact with "this" in any form or shape in any way. (And here's the problem because human organism is not that perfect and it always could be some form of misjudge)
Now little about us as beings
I will start with quote that changed my way of looking at everything "Crazy man does not know he's crazy".
Than i asked myself "Who defines 'crazy' then?". It's just matter of one point of view against other. There's no 'normal' or 'different'. There are only individuals which group up with others in this one unificated point of view to become majority which over time affects them to the point that they are sure they are right because they have support of others from their group which actually is generated by the same effect.
So what does this have to do with (current) topic? Everything. Mentioned groups generate beliefs. Why? because members want to find their reality among the others. 1 person is enough to "claim a new fact" and generate feedback which will split the group (due mentioned 'crazy' aspect) or get new allies. The leavers will join other group in same endless search.
I'm not only talking about religions now. It's actually everywhere.
A couple is perfect example of group of minimal size. Never had this situation where you come as guest to some marry couple, do something normal (for you) and they look at you like at 'odd' person? And then you think they are 'odd'? And then you go to your friend to tell him how 'odd' they are and he will either say your right and laugh with you or he will say that they were actually right and the conflict may rise. Your group will weaken and eventually may result in rejecting your friend and eventually finding another one.
(and no it's not a life story, just look around closely)
So what does it have to do with religion actually. Religions are the same groups just in bigger size. They generate same beliefs that promise, expect or claim unification at the 'end'. The 'end' at which you lose this group issue, the reality issue, because at the end reality will be one, and there will be no 'point of view' which is just caused by the fact that we have senses.
Beliefs, by definition, are in the end confirmed or denied. The issue with religion is that is says you will confirm it at the 'end' thus preventing you right from the start from denial. So you either are part of the group or not. It does not mean you have to be enemy with others but it's very vulnerable to create conflict which we can observe right here, right now :) And it's funny because at the end it won't matter. You won't 'think', you won't 'feel' pain in hell or pleasure in heaven. Instead just chill, look at others, tolerate them, understand that no human will ever fully share your point of view.
...Unless you prefer be the 1 who claims.
The only true group which ever should exist is one which isn't actually a group. Which allows everyone to flow thru and does not posses any true form, no beliefs, no claims, no expectations, no requirements, no rules. And this obviously means all people leaving in true honest harmony. ( but it's so hard that we prefer to not )
What if religion wouldn't be created at the first place? :p You wouldn't even think about believing in stuff and focus more on your surrounding than some ghost stories.
@Nerfpl: Go
Heres the thing I will quit believing in it when it is proven wrong, and since you just for the most part said your not Atheist then im gussing agnostic right?
I'm none ;) i don't need to believe in anything. I just accept world as it presents itself to me. I don't need any guide in form of book or teachings. I have my own mind and i can define everything from my own perspective. And if its wrong or right is just a matter of conflict raised by trying to imply your point on someone else's
About proven wrong. That's the issue with religions. They are designed to be impossible to prove anything else. How will you prove that God don't exists if it's not reachable right from the start.
say for one second that atheism was correct( I 100% believe that its garbage), Would knowing any of this help you anyway? are you going to be happy over knowing that there is nothing greater then you?
I just said that belief in whatever wherever means nothing.
I never said there's nothing greater. I never said i'm atheist too :) Again belief is human thing. Your really narrow minded if you think that belief is ultimate ability. Don't you really feel shackled by this? Separated from everything other (not only other people)
So i guess you believe in souls, then what is soul? some unexplained being or non-being. By logic it points connection to higher beings (non material btw). You think that they "think"? That they "care" about your beliefs?They would probably not even care because its all just human. We are in center of attention. Actually there's no center.
Life just is. There's no judge, no rules, no better/worse no good/evil, no true/false. Those are all human made things if you think about it
you say dont feel bad for atheist... but if you are wrong... then your screwed... if your right, then no big deal.. lol.. its a Neutral/Lose situation, where for people who do believe its a win/Neutral
So you have a -1 and we have a +1, therefore atheism as a whole is illogical.
So religion is about belief ? xD Seriously that makes no sense. So entire point is to believe and what? Make someone happy (the god)?
Something as "Religion" should not even exist at the first place. Understanding life is what's important, symbiosis, coexistence. No one in haven or wherever you point will care if you believed or not. That's just state of thoughts. Can change in seconds.
Don't be sad for us who don't believe in an afterlife. Nothingness is neither good nor bad. In this sense, it isn't even something you'd feel. As I have said before, it would be like the time before you were born. Did you enjoy the time before you were born (/became conscious)? No? Were you unhappy? Of course not. You couldn't think during that time. Nothingness is technically impossible to imagine, just like infinity, but that doesn't mean it can't exist.
Personally, I would much rather just die and have nothingness than an afterlife, even if it's bliss.
You nailed it. But nothingness is easy to imagine. Issue is with time flow which you can't visualize. It's like sleeping. The moment you fall asleep is the moment you wake up. When you die technically time will flow till end (or infinity) in instant - For 'you' obviously
Since childhood i always felt that there's something odd in way we percept ourselvs. Recently something as 'consciousnesses' pops a lot. Usually compared to soul-like 'thing'; An observer, not 'controller'.
My current belief (tho i don't bother much with it) is that after 'death' our life ends obviously but it doesn't mean destruction or like disappearance but more like detachment. We won't 'see' or 'feel' but still there is a chance to some other experiences in unknown way or form from completely different perspective.
Whenever i say to myself "that's crazy" i start to imagine cosmos, the size, amount of everything along with space and i say "no chance it's all just for simple beings like humans"
Last note tho. I believe nothing ever will able to answer questions like that. None religion, none professor, no one, nothing. We can guess, make things up and that's it.
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shh... it's for e-peen
That's really one sided point of view. We don't know how long things are. "intelligent design" perfectly possibly can be effect of matter/non-matter moving towards more harmonized structure. So we can't really say that something is "designed"; it's organized.
Organization is caused due electromagnetic field which is caused by current which is caused by charge which is caused by electrons which are made of all those smallest things, which people still try to find and as i say they won't because it's just matter or perspective. There's no Universe's pixel. The smaller world does not need to have trees and other people; shape or form. Energy, movement is enough. We know we are made of cells. Cells are also made from something. This something is also made of something and so on until infinity.
You say it's designed by someone/something. We made PCs that are effect of one matter (us) affecting other matter (the fact they don't live it's just our property. We should say 'they' are different than 'us').
The entire organization is everywhere, it's just the scale which makes it seems that's not there. So to consider anything at our scale to be designed, in my opinion is incorrect. It's more like thrown out.
Furthermore, we can't say where our roots are. The organization could take some time. You say chances are miraculous impossible for us to be here. We could be anything else and you would say same thing.
Just think outside of the box. Our form, our senses, our abilities are just one of endless amount of possibilities. It's just senses that create this illusion of 'being' in proper way. What we call "life" it's just an occurrence. It's not a gift. It's not good or bad vs other matter. Stuff in space spin yet we don't say it lives.
Imo only proper definition of "God" is a 'source'. Not any intelligent being. More of a cause. Root.
Fun thing is that any belief is actually based on hearing about something from someone. There's little to none own thought in this. Just think about how your own beliefs were triggered.
You hear some claim about something and you either accept is as true or not. The word 'belief' on which all religions etc are based actually by definition mean "I know it's true even without being sure". In Christianity there's actually something like "Believe without seeing and you will be blessed". Clever.
Now if you think about it, on how the person telling you this knows this, there are only 3 options:
Check Wiki ( i recommend reading entire page )
Now little about us as beings
I will start with quote that changed my way of looking at everything "Crazy man does not know he's crazy".
Than i asked myself "Who defines 'crazy' then?". It's just matter of one point of view against other. There's no 'normal' or 'different'. There are only individuals which group up with others in this one unificated point of view to become majority which over time affects them to the point that they are sure they are right because they have support of others from their group which actually is generated by the same effect.
So what does this have to do with (current) topic? Everything. Mentioned groups generate beliefs. Why? because members want to find their reality among the others. 1 person is enough to "claim a new fact" and generate feedback which will split the group (due mentioned 'crazy' aspect) or get new allies. The leavers will join other group in same endless search.
I'm not only talking about religions now. It's actually everywhere.
A couple is perfect example of group of minimal size. Never had this situation where you come as guest to some marry couple, do something normal (for you) and they look at you like at 'odd' person? And then you think they are 'odd'? And then you go to your friend to tell him how 'odd' they are and he will either say your right and laugh with you or he will say that they were actually right and the conflict may rise. Your group will weaken and eventually may result in rejecting your friend and eventually finding another one.
(and no it's not a life story, just look around closely)
So what does it have to do with religion actually. Religions are the same groups just in bigger size. They generate same beliefs that promise, expect or claim unification at the 'end'. The 'end' at which you lose this group issue, the reality issue, because at the end reality will be one, and there will be no 'point of view' which is just caused by the fact that we have senses.
Beliefs, by definition, are in the end confirmed or denied. The issue with religion is that is says you will confirm it at the 'end' thus preventing you right from the start from denial. So you either are part of the group or not. It does not mean you have to be enemy with others but it's very vulnerable to create conflict which we can observe right here, right now :)
And it's funny because at the end it won't matter. You won't 'think', you won't 'feel' pain in hell or pleasure in heaven. Instead just chill, look at others, tolerate them, understand that no human will ever fully share your point of view.
...Unless you prefer be the 1 who claims.
The only true group which ever should exist is one which isn't actually a group. Which allows everyone to flow thru and does not posses any true form, no beliefs, no claims, no expectations, no requirements, no rules. And this obviously means all people leaving in true honest harmony. ( but it's so hard that we prefer to not )
I like the guy but he talks too much (Titan Quest)
What if religion wouldn't be created at the first place? :p You wouldn't even think about believing in stuff and focus more on your surrounding than some ghost stories.
Sorry to inform you but the towers were detonated. The plane and the guys and thus the words were part of the plan.
I'm none ;) i don't need to believe in anything. I just accept world as it presents itself to me. I don't need any guide in form of book or teachings. I have my own mind and i can define everything from my own perspective. And if its wrong or right is just a matter of conflict raised by trying to imply your point on someone else's
About proven wrong. That's the issue with religions. They are designed to be impossible to prove anything else. How will you prove that God don't exists if it's not reachable right from the start.
I just said that belief in whatever wherever means nothing.
I never said there's nothing greater. I never said i'm atheist too :)
Again belief is human thing. Your really narrow minded if you think that belief is ultimate ability. Don't you really feel shackled by this? Separated from everything other (not only other people)
So i guess you believe in souls, then what is soul? some unexplained being or non-being. By logic it points connection to higher beings (non material btw). You think that they "think"? That they "care" about your beliefs?They would probably not even care because its all just human. We are in center of attention. Actually there's no center.
Life just is. There's no judge, no rules, no better/worse no good/evil, no true/false. Those are all human made things if you think about it
So religion is about belief ? xD Seriously that makes no sense.
So entire point is to believe and what? Make someone happy (the god)?
Something as "Religion" should not even exist at the first place. Understanding life is what's important, symbiosis, coexistence. No one in haven or wherever you point will care if you believed or not. That's just state of thoughts. Can change in seconds.
You nailed it. But nothingness is easy to imagine. Issue is with time flow which you can't visualize. It's like sleeping. The moment you fall asleep is the moment you wake up. When you die technically time will flow till end (or infinity) in instant - For 'you' obviously
cool topic :) i like
Are we immortal: No... But who is 'We'/'Me'/'You'
Since childhood i always felt that there's something odd in way we percept ourselvs. Recently something as 'consciousnesses' pops a lot. Usually compared to soul-like 'thing'; An observer, not 'controller'.
My current belief (tho i don't bother much with it) is that after 'death' our life ends obviously but it doesn't mean destruction or like disappearance but more like detachment. We won't 'see' or 'feel' but still there is a chance to some other experiences in unknown way or form from completely different perspective.
Whenever i say to myself "that's crazy" i start to imagine cosmos, the size, amount of everything along with space and i say "no chance it's all just for simple beings like humans"
Last note tho. I believe nothing ever will able to answer questions like that. None religion, none professor, no one, nothing. We can guess, make things up and that's it.