From your earlier post. You haven't paid 60 quid for anything, so, no your not entitled. And you never will be, until you spend the 60 quid. And just how do you know anything about the system when you can't even use it? Clearly you don't know there's a seach function, which *gasp* searches. And you obviously have no idea about what maps have been up since release, why? Cause you can't find out in game. I'm guessing your american, which means you may know what games were up on the USA Servers, but you have no idea about the other regions. Believe me, the maps change. Stop being drawn into something, you know nothing about. Either buy the game, and see what your complaining about with enlighted eyes, or shut up, and stop bitching about something you don't know about.
Oh, and Blizz isn't preventing you from buying the game, you are.
Hmm, you might wanna head on back to school, because you appearently never learned what the word "if" means. I never said I bought the game, I never said I am, currently, entitled to anything. I said -IF- I buy a game, I'm entitled. Lrn2engrish.
Blizzard is preventing me from buying the game by proving, time and time again, that they don't care about their players. The pop system was said to be bad way back during the beta, THOUSANDS of players said it was bad. They ignored us all, and months later they haven't even hinted that they'll ever fix it.
I dunno about you, but I don't have unlimited money. So I'm not gonna go throw it at a broken game I can't enjoy, made by a company who couldn't give two shits about it's players. If you like supporting such companies, go ahead, you'll be helping the downfall of the gaming industry, but fuck it's your money. I for one have a little higher standards, and I'll buy the game once they fix the fucking problems with it.
P.S. Why the fuck would I give two shits what happens on other regions? It doesn't effect me. I know what maps have been up since the beta because this very fucking site has a list. I also know how the system is because it hasn't changed since the beta, and like the beta the search function is still useless. Honestly man, I don't need the game to be informed on it. All I need is a source of information, and considering I have 3 friends who all bought the game (two quit cuz it's broke as shit), I'm more then capable of keeping tabs on it. Your ignorance is showing, you might wanna cover it up.
Given that you haven't bought the game, your not entitled to anything. This isn't a dig at not buying the game, god knows I've done it in the past, and still do, and will probably do so in the future. But holy shit, you got no right to complain about something you haven't paid for. You get something free, enjoy what ya got, it might be the last time.
I'm complaining about it because it's keeping me from buying the game. So yeah, I have every right to complain. I don't have to actually buy the game to complain about broken systems that keep me from buying the game. That's just stupid. And I didn't say I was entitled to anything without buying the game, I was saying that if I spend 60 bucks on a game, I am entitled to enjoy it without having blizzard micromanage what I'm allowed to see. There's a fucking reason it says "online interactions not rated by the ESRB", blizzard needs to fucking honor that so I can buy and enjoy the game.
Man, I hate when people pull the entitled card. You know what? I -AM- fucking entitled. If I pay 60 bucks for a game, I am ENTITLED to be able to enjoy it and play it as I see fit. It's not blizzard's place to babysit us all, telling us what's inappropriate and keeping us from doing what we want. What made SC and WC3 good was the freedom they gave, SC2 takes all that freedom away, freedom I am ENTITLED to. If they wanted to make the publishing system and popularity system optional, then by all means, implement bullshit restrictions to maintain control. But you can't force me to use these systems AND force your restrictions on me, it's horse shit to the highest degree.
Also, I didn't buy the game because of this shit, if they got their heads out of their collective asses and fixed this shit, I'd buy the game in a heart beat.
You're naive for thinking it can't work, and you are contradicting yourself. First you are saying a popularity system can't work, then you say the Wc3 system worked because the people decided what is popular. This means a popularity system can work, you just need to change the way the popularity is calculated.
They can do whatever they want, and I would hope they would ban people that intentionally try and mess up the system. It's their game, they can make it work how they like, you can either work within their system or go elsewhere.
I never said -A- popularity system can't work, I said -THIS- popularity system can't work. WC3 and SC relied on a popularity system that was neither monitored, nor automated, nor controlled. It was simply, popular maps get hosted and played a lot, non-popular maps didn't. It works because it was in the hands of the players. THIS, specific system doesn't work because it's automated. The players aren't deciding what's popular, they're being told what's popular. THIS system can not, and never will work, if you want a popularity system that works, that'd be WC3.
It can't, and wont work. You're naive if you think a system that TELLS people what is and isn't popular will work. The popularity system in SC and WC3 worked because the players decided what was popular, on SC2 the system itself decides what's popular, it CAN'T be fixed, get your head out of your ass and you'd realize this. Besides you have yet to put forth a single idea that'd fix the system, and considering how much you claim it can be fixed, that's a little self-defeating.
Besides, they can't ban accounts for my idea. They never said your maps had to meet a minimum content quota, the maps wont be violating any of the rules they've put forth. What could they ban us for?
somebody make a stupid map which makes to the top 10 and when its there, change its name or content...
I suggest It should be stupid 1 player td with 5 minute content.
-Points to the thread he just made-, we should ALL do that. The first two pages being nothing beyond shitty maps that all express how we want the old hosting system back. Organized protests :(
Krat, for the love of god, stop exaggerating to make your point. "Thousands of games", seriously dude? Neither SC nor WC3 had "thousands of games", they didn't even have hundreds. There were like, 50-60 lobbies at any given time, and if it was a good map it'd be full and started in 5 mins. Honestly, the way you talk makes me think you never played WC3.
Also, making is optional isn't a way of fixing the popularity, and you taking it as such is soooo grasping for straws. Fixing implies.. well.. fixing. Making it optional doesn't fix it, it just means we don't have to use it. Making it optional accomplishes the same as outright removing it, only the 1% who actually like it can still use it. It'll still be a broken system where only boosted maps can be on the top, it'll just be an optional broken system.
I'm sorry man, but you need to get it through your head that the popularity system will -NEVER- work. Things with popularity systems are things like netflix. I'm not looking for a movie to take home and watch, nor a game to take home and play. I'm looking for a game to play with other people. Name me -ONE- online game where the only way of finding other players was some stupid popularity system. The system may work for shopping, but not for gaming. The hosting method worked because you'd browse through the ever-updating list, seeing what people were playing, not what was played most, what people were playing at that very fucking second. And you'd join what you wanted. If nothing appealed to you, you'd go and host a map that did.
WC3 was the pinnacle of perfection, what few problems it had could simply be fixed. You can try to defend the broken popularity system until you're blue in the face, but you'll never find a solution to fix it, because you CAN'T fix it. Only way to fix it, is to get rid of it, either by making it optional or outright getting rid of it. And that's what we need to push for, we need to organize all those who hate this abomination, and force blizzard to change back to a system that's worked for over a decade.
You could easily find the most popular maps in the old BNet system (WC3). The most popular maps would turn up more often. There were problems with that system too, but overall it worked out much better in that new maps that weren't popular yet would turn up too. Some kind of compromise between the popularity system and the old system would be ideal. What needs to be done is to bring back the old system, and then also allow users to search for specific maps when joining.
They should just make the popularity system optional, have both the old AND the new. Feeling lazy? Don't wanna look for a map? Wanna just join a quick tug game? Go to the popularity system and play nexus wars. However if you'd like to see a wide array of maps, all of which you KNOW have people playing them, you use the old system. I've said from the moment they mentioned the publishing/popularity system, they need to make it OPTIONAL. I'm sure some people (god knows why) enjoy the new system, many more don't. So making it optional and giving people a choice is the best of both worlds. EVERYONES happy.
Absolute nonsense. Popularity systems are common systems and can work. Not having a popularity system will not help anything. How are you going to find the most popular maps out of thousands of maps, without a popularity system? You aren't.
Where and what, specifically has the community said? Can you link me to constructive feedback regarding the popularity system? (not a bunch of whiny/bitchy posts)?
Popularity systems generally involve "people choose what they want", I mean by definition WC3 and SC ran under a popularity system. Popular maps were hosted and played, unpopular maps weren't. The thing is, when you try to automate and control what's popular and what isn't, then it simply does not work. And that's what this system does.
But you know what, I'll humour you, come up with ideas to fix it and I'll shoot them down, explaining why they wont work. There's only one course of action, ditching this broken system, it can not be saved. And to start, I'll shoot down your original ideas.
A search function when joining games (same as when creating one) - Search for what? For a map? Ok say I wanna play.... LOTR, I search for it, find it, join it.... and nobody else joins. See, I found my map easily, but I coulda found it by cycling through the pages too. People STILL don't know anyones playing it, and STILL don't join.
A solid list of game categories, allowing you to publish into one of those categories. - Ok, so we publish under categories. So I go to the Tug category, my only options are those at the top. I go to the conquest category, my only options are those at the top. All this does is spread the problem out, it doesn't fix it. I'm still FORCED to play the maps at the top of the list, or sit in empty lobbies.
Feel free to come up with more ideas, but I guarantee you, you wont come up with an idea that fixes the system. You need to understand that it's BROKEN, and sometimes you simply can not fucking fix something that's broken. You need to accept that this popularity system is a lost caused, and needs to be abandoned.
Sorry that was a typo, I meant to write best way to improve the popularity system (too used to writing about the editor!)
Personally I think it's better for the community to put a positive effort and offering suggestions, than resorting to the above tactics of a lame 5 minute map. So far all I have seen is random incoherent bitching.
Imo, it's sites like SC2Mapster that should be putting in the effort of getting the communities message accross, we could all work together to keep a thread bumped at the top of the forums (ironic i know).
Again, there's only one way to fix it. The popularity system is inherently flawed, nothing we come up with could ever make it work, it's just not a feasable system. The only way to fix it, is to scrap it, or make it optional, and put in the old way of hosting. The communities also said this since the Beta, and Blizzard has done NOTHING, which is why I keep saying they don't give a shit anymore. The community has said so loudly that they hate the popularity system, we've been ignored. So asking them nicely to go back to the old way wont do anything, we need to SHOW them we can't stand it. Flooding the first two pages of the list with shitty 5 minute maps that you can't play, all with descriptions like "we want bnet 1.0 hosting". THAT might get some attention.
Yes. This would be wonderful and much more doable than shutting down the map-making communities (since some people would continue to publish maps even in the absence of communities). Blizzard can't ignore this though and it only requires a few people making lame 5 minute maps and boosting them to the top. Please do this. Making the maps itself would take no time too so that's a plus =D
We should pool creative ideas for lame maps. Marine trapped in a box is a good one. Hm, what other lame maps can we make? We could give everyone a Nexus with no resources or probes! That would be a fun map too!
We should try to organize something, I'd be more then willing to whip up some shitty map if other people got on board. We'd need enough maps and boosters to flood the first, and preferably second page for it to work, though. I mean almost every map maker is pissed at the popularity system, if we just took the effort to try to organize the communities, I could see something like this happening.
So is there a constructive list of suggestions about the best ways you guys can think of to improve the editor? I haven't seen one, but maybe I missed it?
If not, why dont we create one here, and create a thread on the official forums and keep it popular?
There are lots of random people that complain about it and bitch about it, but bitching to developers rarely makes them feel like wanting to improve things.
The editor isn't the problem, sure it could use a few tweaks and whatnot, but it's relatively solid. What needs work is fucking Bnet, and the popularity system. And the best way of fixing it has been given time and time again "go back to the old way", they had it right the first time. Allowing people to simply go on and host their maps was the pinnacle of perfection. If a map was good and popular, people would join it, if not, they didn't. It was like capitalism, the strong survive and the weak never get played. The popularity system is like .... I wanna say socialism but it's shittier then socialism. The popularity system basically FORCES people to play bad maps, simply because if they go deeper down the list and join a different map, they can guarantee nobody else will join them.
Blizzard needs to get their heads out of their asses and admit that modeling Bnet after xbox live was fucking stupid, and to bring back the way that worked. Make the popularity system and publishing OPTIONAL, if I wanna host my map on blizzard's servers so it gets more views, awesome, but I shouldn't HAVE to do it that way.
We should try to organize all the map makers out there, have everyone make some shitty five minute map where each player starts with a lone marine and is trapped in a box with nothing to do. And then boost the fuck out them all. So the first two pages are nothing but the same shitty map. I'd love to see Blizzard's response to that.
Pathetic is your whining......
And my map wasnt really meant to stay up on the list its not even near complete....
Anyways we all agree for the most part that It could be made much much better. But why complain about it anymore... after 5 months its gotten pretty old. Hell most of us knew what it was like before we bought it.
Because what are we suppose to do? Our options are to either bend over and let Blizzard continue to fuck us in the ass, or bitch about their shitty system. Dunno bout you, but I like my ass the way it is, so I'll bitch.
Game's don't make it to the top because they're good, or fun, and anyone who says otherwise is a goddamned retard defending blizzard because they're a fanboy. Almost every map at the top of the list has been there since the beta, and any newcomers get there due to boosting. Do you know WHY this is? Because it's physically impossible to get there legitly, no matter what you say it's simply not possible. Because say a map is really good, and say someone scroll down to page 10 and joins. How many other people will scroll down to page 10 and join that game with you? Oh, that's right, nobody. So you can sit there for hours, never playing the map, and thus it never goes up in the list.
People aren't patient, they come to play, not wait. The only games they can reliably play are at the top of the list, so 99% of people wont even click the 'next page' tab. This isn't because the top games are good, it's because only the top games have people. So seriously, shut the fuck up with your "Hurr maek gud map n it get top!", it doesn't fucking work that way. I could make the shittiest map imaginable and if I boosted it, it'd be number 1. The system is the most fucked up pile of shit, ever, period. And Blizzard's proven just how shit they are for refusing to fix it.
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Hmm, you might wanna head on back to school, because you appearently never learned what the word "if" means. I never said I bought the game, I never said I am, currently, entitled to anything. I said -IF- I buy a game, I'm entitled. Lrn2engrish.
Blizzard is preventing me from buying the game by proving, time and time again, that they don't care about their players. The pop system was said to be bad way back during the beta, THOUSANDS of players said it was bad. They ignored us all, and months later they haven't even hinted that they'll ever fix it.
I dunno about you, but I don't have unlimited money. So I'm not gonna go throw it at a broken game I can't enjoy, made by a company who couldn't give two shits about it's players. If you like supporting such companies, go ahead, you'll be helping the downfall of the gaming industry, but fuck it's your money. I for one have a little higher standards, and I'll buy the game once they fix the fucking problems with it.
P.S. Why the fuck would I give two shits what happens on other regions? It doesn't effect me. I know what maps have been up since the beta because this very fucking site has a list. I also know how the system is because it hasn't changed since the beta, and like the beta the search function is still useless. Honestly man, I don't need the game to be informed on it. All I need is a source of information, and considering I have 3 friends who all bought the game (two quit cuz it's broke as shit), I'm more then capable of keeping tabs on it. Your ignorance is showing, you might wanna cover it up.
I'm complaining about it because it's keeping me from buying the game. So yeah, I have every right to complain. I don't have to actually buy the game to complain about broken systems that keep me from buying the game. That's just stupid. And I didn't say I was entitled to anything without buying the game, I was saying that if I spend 60 bucks on a game, I am entitled to enjoy it without having blizzard micromanage what I'm allowed to see. There's a fucking reason it says "online interactions not rated by the ESRB", blizzard needs to fucking honor that so I can buy and enjoy the game.
Man, I hate when people pull the entitled card. You know what? I -AM- fucking entitled. If I pay 60 bucks for a game, I am ENTITLED to be able to enjoy it and play it as I see fit. It's not blizzard's place to babysit us all, telling us what's inappropriate and keeping us from doing what we want. What made SC and WC3 good was the freedom they gave, SC2 takes all that freedom away, freedom I am ENTITLED to. If they wanted to make the publishing system and popularity system optional, then by all means, implement bullshit restrictions to maintain control. But you can't force me to use these systems AND force your restrictions on me, it's horse shit to the highest degree.
Also, I didn't buy the game because of this shit, if they got their heads out of their collective asses and fixed this shit, I'd buy the game in a heart beat.
I never said -A- popularity system can't work, I said -THIS- popularity system can't work. WC3 and SC relied on a popularity system that was neither monitored, nor automated, nor controlled. It was simply, popular maps get hosted and played a lot, non-popular maps didn't. It works because it was in the hands of the players. THIS, specific system doesn't work because it's automated. The players aren't deciding what's popular, they're being told what's popular. THIS system can not, and never will work, if you want a popularity system that works, that'd be WC3.
It can't, and wont work. You're naive if you think a system that TELLS people what is and isn't popular will work. The popularity system in SC and WC3 worked because the players decided what was popular, on SC2 the system itself decides what's popular, it CAN'T be fixed, get your head out of your ass and you'd realize this. Besides you have yet to put forth a single idea that'd fix the system, and considering how much you claim it can be fixed, that's a little self-defeating.
Besides, they can't ban accounts for my idea. They never said your maps had to meet a minimum content quota, the maps wont be violating any of the rules they've put forth. What could they ban us for?
-Points to the thread he just made-, we should ALL do that. The first two pages being nothing beyond shitty maps that all express how we want the old hosting system back. Organized protests :(
Krat, for the love of god, stop exaggerating to make your point. "Thousands of games", seriously dude? Neither SC nor WC3 had "thousands of games", they didn't even have hundreds. There were like, 50-60 lobbies at any given time, and if it was a good map it'd be full and started in 5 mins. Honestly, the way you talk makes me think you never played WC3.
Also, making is optional isn't a way of fixing the popularity, and you taking it as such is soooo grasping for straws. Fixing implies.. well.. fixing. Making it optional doesn't fix it, it just means we don't have to use it. Making it optional accomplishes the same as outright removing it, only the 1% who actually like it can still use it. It'll still be a broken system where only boosted maps can be on the top, it'll just be an optional broken system.
I'm sorry man, but you need to get it through your head that the popularity system will -NEVER- work. Things with popularity systems are things like netflix. I'm not looking for a movie to take home and watch, nor a game to take home and play. I'm looking for a game to play with other people. Name me -ONE- online game where the only way of finding other players was some stupid popularity system. The system may work for shopping, but not for gaming. The hosting method worked because you'd browse through the ever-updating list, seeing what people were playing, not what was played most, what people were playing at that very fucking second. And you'd join what you wanted. If nothing appealed to you, you'd go and host a map that did.
WC3 was the pinnacle of perfection, what few problems it had could simply be fixed. You can try to defend the broken popularity system until you're blue in the face, but you'll never find a solution to fix it, because you CAN'T fix it. Only way to fix it, is to get rid of it, either by making it optional or outright getting rid of it. And that's what we need to push for, we need to organize all those who hate this abomination, and force blizzard to change back to a system that's worked for over a decade.
They should just make the popularity system optional, have both the old AND the new. Feeling lazy? Don't wanna look for a map? Wanna just join a quick tug game? Go to the popularity system and play nexus wars. However if you'd like to see a wide array of maps, all of which you KNOW have people playing them, you use the old system. I've said from the moment they mentioned the publishing/popularity system, they need to make it OPTIONAL. I'm sure some people (god knows why) enjoy the new system, many more don't. So making it optional and giving people a choice is the best of both worlds. EVERYONES happy.
Popularity systems generally involve "people choose what they want", I mean by definition WC3 and SC ran under a popularity system. Popular maps were hosted and played, unpopular maps weren't. The thing is, when you try to automate and control what's popular and what isn't, then it simply does not work. And that's what this system does.
But you know what, I'll humour you, come up with ideas to fix it and I'll shoot them down, explaining why they wont work. There's only one course of action, ditching this broken system, it can not be saved. And to start, I'll shoot down your original ideas.
A search function when joining games (same as when creating one) - Search for what? For a map? Ok say I wanna play.... LOTR, I search for it, find it, join it.... and nobody else joins. See, I found my map easily, but I coulda found it by cycling through the pages too. People STILL don't know anyones playing it, and STILL don't join.
A solid list of game categories, allowing you to publish into one of those categories. - Ok, so we publish under categories. So I go to the Tug category, my only options are those at the top. I go to the conquest category, my only options are those at the top. All this does is spread the problem out, it doesn't fix it. I'm still FORCED to play the maps at the top of the list, or sit in empty lobbies.
Feel free to come up with more ideas, but I guarantee you, you wont come up with an idea that fixes the system. You need to understand that it's BROKEN, and sometimes you simply can not fucking fix something that's broken. You need to accept that this popularity system is a lost caused, and needs to be abandoned.
Again, there's only one way to fix it. The popularity system is inherently flawed, nothing we come up with could ever make it work, it's just not a feasable system. The only way to fix it, is to scrap it, or make it optional, and put in the old way of hosting. The communities also said this since the Beta, and Blizzard has done NOTHING, which is why I keep saying they don't give a shit anymore. The community has said so loudly that they hate the popularity system, we've been ignored. So asking them nicely to go back to the old way wont do anything, we need to SHOW them we can't stand it. Flooding the first two pages of the list with shitty 5 minute maps that you can't play, all with descriptions like "we want bnet 1.0 hosting". THAT might get some attention.
We should try to organize something, I'd be more then willing to whip up some shitty map if other people got on board. We'd need enough maps and boosters to flood the first, and preferably second page for it to work, though. I mean almost every map maker is pissed at the popularity system, if we just took the effort to try to organize the communities, I could see something like this happening.
The editor isn't the problem, sure it could use a few tweaks and whatnot, but it's relatively solid. What needs work is fucking Bnet, and the popularity system. And the best way of fixing it has been given time and time again "go back to the old way", they had it right the first time. Allowing people to simply go on and host their maps was the pinnacle of perfection. If a map was good and popular, people would join it, if not, they didn't. It was like capitalism, the strong survive and the weak never get played. The popularity system is like .... I wanna say socialism but it's shittier then socialism. The popularity system basically FORCES people to play bad maps, simply because if they go deeper down the list and join a different map, they can guarantee nobody else will join them.
Blizzard needs to get their heads out of their asses and admit that modeling Bnet after xbox live was fucking stupid, and to bring back the way that worked. Make the popularity system and publishing OPTIONAL, if I wanna host my map on blizzard's servers so it gets more views, awesome, but I shouldn't HAVE to do it that way.
We should try to organize all the map makers out there, have everyone make some shitty five minute map where each player starts with a lone marine and is trapped in a box with nothing to do. And then boost the fuck out them all. So the first two pages are nothing but the same shitty map. I'd love to see Blizzard's response to that.
Because what are we suppose to do? Our options are to either bend over and let Blizzard continue to fuck us in the ass, or bitch about their shitty system. Dunno bout you, but I like my ass the way it is, so I'll bitch.
Game's don't make it to the top because they're good, or fun, and anyone who says otherwise is a goddamned retard defending blizzard because they're a fanboy. Almost every map at the top of the list has been there since the beta, and any newcomers get there due to boosting. Do you know WHY this is? Because it's physically impossible to get there legitly, no matter what you say it's simply not possible. Because say a map is really good, and say someone scroll down to page 10 and joins. How many other people will scroll down to page 10 and join that game with you? Oh, that's right, nobody. So you can sit there for hours, never playing the map, and thus it never goes up in the list.
People aren't patient, they come to play, not wait. The only games they can reliably play are at the top of the list, so 99% of people wont even click the 'next page' tab. This isn't because the top games are good, it's because only the top games have people. So seriously, shut the fuck up with your "Hurr maek gud map n it get top!", it doesn't fucking work that way. I could make the shittiest map imaginable and if I boosted it, it'd be number 1. The system is the most fucked up pile of shit, ever, period. And Blizzard's proven just how shit they are for refusing to fix it.