Public Beta? (Eyes go bigger than O_O, mouth smiles and drops larger than =D) (Or does that just sound ridiculous?)
However, yay! Pub Beta! Would love a new reason to get on SC2 these days, kinda bored of most of the other maps atm...(and it'd give a reason to stop only playing priv games too hahaha)
:)
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Thoughts on Erekul (watched part of vid, paused, wrote thoughts, went back to vid, repeat): "DT" with HT unit? That'll confuse people who don't know what custom maps are...hah.
Well, they will get used to it, I guess.
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Chain lightning like skill, sweet.
I actually think about replacing it, those bouncing skills are a pain in the ass to make in the editor, and they don't even look or feel good. Not to mention they cause problems, when used by multiple players :/
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Wind Walk like ramming skill....that looks kinda cool actually. Reminds me of one of those guys in RoC, one of the later versions, the Ghost Rider guy I think it was...looks like you're kinda ripping off own skills :P.
Well, if I would always have to create something absolutely original, this would probably take a while...
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Third skill: So it's kinda like Maar's "graviton prison" (or whatever it was) only groups....okay, cool.
Yes, its actually very similar to Maar's ability. I did realize this, after I was finished with the spell :D
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Ultimate...wow. How to describe? Hmm, anyway, it seems way too short. I mean you got what was there and that was it. Channeling skill...for about 3 seconds? Far too short in my opinion.
I want to avoid too long channeling times, While channeling, you are extremely vulnerable usually, also you need to make sure to finish the channel to get the maximum spell effect. I would rather use a shorter channelling time and use a shorter cooldown as well.
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Overall: I think my main problem with this guy is the model, HT model just makes me think the guy'll be very squishy, and one of those makes me think you'll be tanking a lot of damage should you not kill everything with it (WW ram). However, he looks good.
Well, you can use it as an escape spell, as well. Also you cannot be hit by missiles, while you are travelling.
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(Should I post thoughts on other heroes like this? Critique every skill overall thoughts?)
As always kueken, cant wait to test it out ;) Srry for not being available today - severe comp problems, had to reinstall windows twice this weekend...
Oh, well, I did not have THAT much time, either. I hope you get your comp up&running soon xD
After some private testgames, I realized, I need to try some bigger test games soon. The basic concept works quite nice, but despite all my efforts the balancing is still way off, and the HLW feeling is not coming up as well as I had expected (at least for me personally). For this to improve, I most likely need feedback and test games on a larger scale, so you guys can expect a public beta test soon (as in probably the next few days).
However, it might be very possible, that you will be disappointed by the feeling and the balance in the first versions. If this is the case, please try to figure out, whats the reason and give me feedback.
I will do some more private testgames and fix some last minute issues, and hopefully I can release the beta version this week.
Anyway, having a beta soon would be awesome. (I'd love to test AI, or do you not have that in yet?)
The first release will not support AI, creating a decent one would require a serious amount of time and testing, and I delayed the release long enough ;).
For now, I'd like to finish the few issues left with the current content, then move to balance testing/tweaking and finally release the first version.
AI will probably be implemented for later versions.
Sounds good. Hopefully the pvp will actually be interesting rather than just "look at me basic attack you" or "fear my never ending stun/s"
Oh, that brings me to another point. What about implementing PVP battles where every X minutes 1 person on each team with the highest income battle each other for a small reward, but it will be fun to watch. During the process everything else stops and the others players can only spectate but once the fight is complete, every one returns to their normal positions but the game is still not in motion for about 5 seconds so people can view the map a little to see where they are at.
I don't know if you might be able to get any other good ideas from this site but i highly recommend you look at it, it can help you create great moves along with figuring out the formulas for certain abilities Link to site > League of Legends. This game derived from the makers of Dota. I dont expect you to make the ability system like they did, but this is just to help you create ideas on what moves you can make and ways to balance out the moves.
Well, tbh, right now I did not even implement pvp in the map at all. This was a part I kinda disliked for the game anyway, since it is absolutely not balanced for pvp. If I would want pvp, I would create an AoS or a hero arena; HLW is heroes vs mobs, and I'd like to focus on that. So there will be DEFINITELY no periodic team battles, maybe a lategame pvp once again, however, I am not even sure about that (yes, I know, this will probably annoy many people, but I like to think, that I will be able to keep the game entertaining without direct pvp)
I will never be able to balance the heroes for pvp anyway, since its all about killing massive amounts of mobs right now. Any hero specialized in single target hero killing would absolutely suck throughout the entire game, just to get a small edge in those (pretty unimportant) hero vs hero fights.
Playing vs computer controlled mobs or playing vs enemy players are 2 entirely different things requiring completely different skills, tactics, items, balance etc etc.
Ive been reading posts in this thread, and I can say that Kueken definitely has a good sense on game design and balance. You get +1 respect point from the Wraith.
I have no idea what the map is really about. Never played it on Wc3. I do hope you succeed well in it and I`ll try it out on release.
Yeah I had some games end with less than 1k income...I don't care for those. Saving for big stuff is what some people did, and I found stupid honestly. Took too long to get decent income, which was kinda what the whole game was about. Get highest income to be the winning in most cases. However, if I had to say any hero was a bit overpowered, I'd say Hell Spawn. I could get no items/tomes until "Better" creeps, then I only needed 3. (Then again, I was possibly WAY good at it...)
Well, most people did not like this way of playing, because they were used to the "traditional" way. In a public, the "new" way was not even good, because if you are the only one of your team doing it and everyone els just sends masses, you have no real gain, but a massive lack in income.
However the real fun starts, if all players are familiar with this tactic and act as a team, for example in a 4v4 8 people saving up for powerful creatures and each of them supporting 1 player, which should get all of the kills to maximize income. I remember great games :). For me, this was WAY more fun throughout the entire game, instead of the 30 min farmfest, where not a single mob was a real thread to you, into teleporting to the enemy and abusing whatever hero killing machine you picked (no offense ;) )
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Anyway, perhaps you could make it so both "modes" of spawning work at once. If you even have similar stuff for spawning.
Well, both "modes" worked before. The save for harder creeps was more difficult to hold, but it was doable.
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The stats make sense I guess for skills, although Agility hardly would seem proper for psionic ranged stuff. I'd say that's more of Intelligence, no? Guess I'm thinking more of "Spell" than "ranged ability".
Not all spells are psionic stuff ;)
2 examples of the map:
A Jim Raynor hero can fire a salve of uranium shells as a spell, these collide with the first targets they hit and deal ranged damage instead of spell damage.
And an ultralisk can use his ram spell, to damage, stun and knockback units in front of him, which deals melee damage instead of spell damage. Kinda makes sense, no?
On a side note: I would consider the map quite close to beta. I implemented most of the content I wanted, tested most basic features over and over again, not that much more I can do alone. I will most likely start private and/or public play tests very soon to massively test the balance (and everything else, of course, but the balance needs the most work right now, I think).
Just a few things to go, little tweaks like giving the hero spells cooldowns and mana costs (I did not bother until now, because for testing abilities cooldown and mana costs are just obstackles)
Well, HLW was not really balanced for the usual public games, where masses and masses of creeps were sent. Within our clan and in tournaments, another style of play has been developed over time, which included sending very few, but powerful monsters, very early upgrades and as a result, heroes with very little income and level compared to your usual public game.
For this kind of gameplay, most of those "weak" heroes were actually really strong (for example, jaina was an extremely powerful hero for this mode, while the old blademaster prior to his remake pretty much sucked), and most of the times, games ended at around 50-75k income; quite some time before heroes with massive amounts of stats could dominate the creeps.
In SC2, the whole balancing will be completely different; I don't think it is even possible to recreate the exact same behavior like in WC3. We will see, how this works out.
Also, right now the starts, Strength, Agility and Intelligence already have direct influence on ability damage, since agi increases ranged damage, str increases melee damage (some abilities might cause ranged or melee damage as well) and int increases spell damage (so the majority of spells already gets bonus damage from increased intelligence).
Perhaps if you're the same race as your creeps you send (hero race at least) then they get a slight bonus. Nothing to make it imbalanced, but something to be work looking in to for people. Like a 5% or perhaps even 10% bonus to damage/life/armor/MS/AS/shields/energy/skill damage/regen/etc. Of course not all of them get bonuses, perhaps they could pick which bonuses they want (like you can get +5% damage or +10% life, or pick 3 of 5, or something) to make things more interesting. Just spouting any ideas I can think of.
Interesting idea, I will think about this one. However, this could be hard to balance, I don't know if I will implement something similar. Most likely not for the first release.
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By the way, you should update the RoC site's info. I know some of the creep infos were wrong, like some had incorrect HPs listed.
Well, since I officially abandoned the project, I don't want to put any additional effort into it (would only delay the SC2 version for you ;) )
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And yeah, Aszune in long games was mostly for the revive time. 50k hp when you have 500k str isn't very much.
Another thought: If armors if bonuses (say, +10 armor) perhaps it should be a set number and a % (like +500 hp and +5% hp) so it's never a complete waste of money, it can be useful after quite some time. And a +50k HP would be much more useful earlier on, once you have over 5m HP (I've had millions of agi on HLW RoC before, not in debug) the +5% would be more like 250k bonus instead of just 50k, which is a lot more useful in the long run.
I kinda want to avoid these absolutely huge numbers. While I understand, this was probably the most fun for some people, to give like 50 billion strength to their hero; it makes the game very hard to balance in the later stages and it gets out of control.
I will try to implement the possibility to create very strong heroes still, but without having to use millions of stats to do so.
Heart late game was mostly the 50% revive time, and Dagger was epic for the mirror image. Shield was mega reduce+super damage. So I'd say those are actually your basic concepts. And no, I wouldn't expect you to just recreate the RoC items.
Damn, I actually forgot about the respawn time reduction xD.
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And as for not being able to see the whole map, let us at least see spawn areas and slightly past that. That way we can tell what's coming, and approx how long it should take to get to you.
Right now, the spawn area up to approx 1/4 of the lane is visible. Also there is a Xel'Naga Watchtower for each team in a forward position, which gives additional vision, but might be risky to hold, because its very close to the spawn positions of enemy mercs.
Also like said before, I plan on adding observer ward-ish items to further increase vision.
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Other thoughts: Perhaps the mapwide vision could be a mode. (-mw, -vs, -mv are possibles for just 2 letters, possibility for 3 letters -mwv). Also, will things like upgrade bonuses be there? And no upgrade bonus modes? (Or upgrade bonus modes?) Also, could it be set so you can choose what racial spawner you want? Some people might not see you have to choose race based on what race of hero/creeps you want, so that could end up confusing people. (However, would make "Random" race much more interesting. Means you have at least one hero each race you're willing to use...I ask these because I thought you said you were going to make heroes for each race, and lobby is where you'd pick race.)
Currently, heroes aren't dependant on the race. There are zerg-themed heroes, but you can pick them, even if you picked the protoss race. The race's only influence is on the types of mercenaries you can send.
I plan on implementing many different modes over time, also most constants should be changeable (like income time, start income, start lifes etc), however right now I have only 2 different mode options: Hero Pick/Random Heroes and Race Pick/Random Races.
Alright i see. I guess there is no harm with experimenting with vision. But as for adding attack range for ranged units i think it will make it imbalanced since at the start or when ever the hero is able to obtain the attack range item, they will be able to harras/kill creeps from an unfair distance which will give ranged units a very distant advantage from melee creeps along with heroes. In hero line wars, when i play a ranged unit at the start and there are powerful creeps coming i just hit as many times as i can then before the creep/s can attack me i move back,hit,move back,hit,ect. If you increase the attack range it will make things too simple. IMO
Well, you could say ranged heroes are imbalanced in general, with the same argumentation. But melee heroes usually have other advantages, they usually get stronger attacks and more tanking power, which are needed desperately later in the game.
Also would it be imbalanced, if you increase the range of a 6 range hero by 0.5? I guess not, this is a question of balancing the numbers.
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Btw i hope you're not gonna add "buyable/upgradable" auras to creeps like in RoC. I have been playing RoC recently and my god the thorn aura on creeps is just.....eh. Its a very quick and imbalanced game changer.
Maybe later on, not for the first release. Maybe, I will just scratch auras and start experimenting with other stuff to improve creeps. We will see ;)
Currently, not the whole map is visible. I would like vision range to be a considerable factor; you see only as far as your heroes and your mercenaries see. Thats why there could/probably should be items to extend the visual range somehow.
This might not be final, but I'd like to try it out.
Whats imbalanced with attack range changes? Well, it should not work with melee attacks for obvious reasons, but for ranged heroes it would not be that hard to find balanced numbers for increased range, I guess.
After reading Shadow's ideas I had a couple of thoughts of my own, like the Helmet, some of them could make it so when you attack and the enemy has an evasion, the evasion is ignored because of "accuracy". Perhaps armor (perhaps "robe/cape") could give some evasion
What I'd like to see are things like (HLW RoC references for those who don't get them) Heart of Aszune, Shield of Honor, whatever the shade dagger thing was (mirror image+corruption+evade), and the tiara thing (negative auras to enemies). Granted they don't have to be things like a shield and dagger etc, just the concepts of their effects. Because those 4 with speed/vamp pots was basically the best set of items imo :P
Well, I won't just recreate the HLW RoC items, but I can definitely pick up some of the concepts (well, Heart = HP and regen, Shield = Dmg Reduction and a Critical strike; nothing fancy about those concepts), but I would like the items to scale better; as mentioned you will be able to upgrade them.
So they are not only for the very late game and then suddenly incredibly powerful, but you can purchase most items earlier, with weaker effects and upgrade them later on.
Or at least that'd be my guess with that if they're all supposed to do something. Obviously it being your map and me kinda sucking at SC2 mapping I couldn't really do it myself, but those'd be my suggestions.
Don't turn yourself down; anyone can have awesome ideas, despite the fact, they might not be able to do them themselves.
Helmet would be vision, Boots would be movespeed, Weapon is obviously damage and perhaps attack speed, Armor would be armor and maybe some stats. Accessories would have assorted effects from movespeed to vision to armor to damage to attack speed to stats to spells and possibly more.
Yes, well, these are the obvious ones. Since I would like to have some variety in the items, I need some more fitting attributes for those items.
I want at least 2-3 or more options for the items (for boots or helmets, 2 or 3 might suffice, but for important things like weapons and armor I would like to have some more choices)
However, these are things, which can be done for future updates as well.
Yeah if you keep it with item enhancements, you wouldn't have to worry about making it real... Almost like socket slots or something.
Indeed, no real difference how items work, but some more logic behind it (well, at least to some point. Equipping Ultralisk Kaiser Blades with some energy core or a sniper scope might not make that much sense at all :D - well a sniper scope, which extends range should not be available for melee attacks anyway - so much for not having restricted items :-p )
Btw Sandman, I changed the numbers of the items, your comment about 2 weapons etc kinda made sense.
So for now I have 1 slot for each kind except accessory items, which have 2 slots; however the accessory items will have some weaker stats most likely anyways.
So right now we have following slots:
1 weapon enhancer (aka weapon)
1 vision enhancer (aka helmet)
1 armor enhancer (aka armor)
1 movement enhancer (aka boots)
2 accessory item slots (aka rings/amulets?)
+ the 5 consumable slots
You may suggest some effects for each kind, if you have something in mind. I want the items to be fairly simple, but kinda unique and matching for the item types (so weapons for damage, armor for defense, but not damage on every item type there is). Also for all equipment items, they need to be passive.
For example weapon enhancers would be the main way of increasing your damage, of course. There could be items for ranged damage, melee damage , maybe spell damage. Also, they might increase range for ranged weapons or add stats of any kind.
Vision Enhancers could possibly increase vision (doh), maybe range, maybe spell damage, maybe get you some kind of detection, maybe some defensive capabilities, maybe some stats.
Accessory items could increase stats, spell damage, energy, hp/energy regeneration, something like that
Do you dislike just the points you mentioned, or is anything else bothering you? Or do you even dislike the overall item system?
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And only a small problem. One armor, 2 weapons? Sorry, it makes sense the other way around (2 armors 1 weapon), especially since I'm sure many weapons are going to be "2-handed" (even gauss rifles use 2 hands per rifle, normally). Was thinking like, one helm, one torso, and one legs, but realized: that's 3.
Well, the numbers can be changed, of course. Like stated, the items are not meant to be a real helmet or weapon, but just similar things (helmet = vision enhancer or something, weapon = weapon enhancer), so it does not really matter if you put for example 2 power cores in 1 weapon :)
I disliked the concept for WC3, where you would equip a sword to cause more damage with your crossbow anyways, but I don't want the unit to change the weapon, when it equips a new one as well. So my items will not be actual weapons and they will not change your weapon. They will just be weapon enhancers and improve certain aspects (same for other item types).
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Another thought! What about different items for each "race"? Terrans use guns, Protoss use psionic stuff, and Zerg obviously use biological weaponry, and similar stuff for their armors. Perhaps Terrans have armors like suits (marine suit, viking suit, [name] suit, etc), since they're always in some kind of suit of armor (unless they're like BCs, but then they have dress suits). And I've not a clue what you'd do for Protoss (at least name wise) but Zerg would be different carapaces for armors, probably claws/spines for weapons.
Crossed my mind as well, but I decided against it. It will be hard enough to balance different heroes and different races to send creeps. Hero or race dependent items are overkill imo (not to mention a ton of work).
not sure if its possible, but give different slots different background images and tooltips when empty.
Well, you can actually give the different slots different background buttons in the data editor, but they do not appear ingame for item containers. For the consumable slots, this works fine. Maybe a bug or an unfinished feature; lets hope they will fix certain inventory issues when they release blizzard dota.
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I hope you get done sometime soon :) at least a playable version. Or a demo for Map Night, you could collect a lot of feedback that way.
I hope to reach this state as well, trying the map at map night is definitely something i look forward to.
Sounds all good and solid. I like the approach with the consumables especially.
One thing though: If you want to restrict the equipping of equipment items with categories, that's fine even if it's not like in WC3 (Adds a tactical element, though!). But make sure to setup the inventory extremely intiutive: In my map I found people wondering why they couldn't carry more items, since they had room in their inventory. Of course their last free slot would be a consumable slot.
What I'm saying is that for a quick-paced game like this you don't want your players wondering about stuff like this. Also it can turn out frustrating if you buy a helmet only to realize, that your helmet slot is full.
Not saying it's a bad idea, in fact I think it's great. Just make sure it's obvious in the inventory as well as in the shops.
Greetings
Good call; I plan on creating individual shops for each type and make very obvious, that you can only have a limited amount of items from this shop equipped.
What about the amount of different slots? I don't want to overdo it, but I have already quite some item types, currently helmet, armor, boots, weapon and accessory + the consumables. I definitely don't want to add much more; in fact I am worried, it could be too much already. What do you think?
Some more internal testing showed, there are still some matters to take care of; however I am quite confident, I can start the beta release this week.
:)
Well, they will get used to it, I guess.
I actually think about replacing it, those bouncing skills are a pain in the ass to make in the editor, and they don't even look or feel good. Not to mention they cause problems, when used by multiple players :/
Well, if I would always have to create something absolutely original, this would probably take a while...
Yes, its actually very similar to Maar's ability. I did realize this, after I was finished with the spell :D
I want to avoid too long channeling times, While channeling, you are extremely vulnerable usually, also you need to make sure to finish the channel to get the maximum spell effect. I would rather use a shorter channelling time and use a shorter cooldown as well.
Well, you can use it as an escape spell, as well. Also you cannot be hit by missiles, while you are travelling.
If you like; the more feedback, the better :)
Very nice :)
Oh, well, I did not have THAT much time, either. I hope you get your comp up&running soon xD
After some private testgames, I realized, I need to try some bigger test games soon. The basic concept works quite nice, but despite all my efforts the balancing is still way off, and the HLW feeling is not coming up as well as I had expected (at least for me personally). For this to improve, I most likely need feedback and test games on a larger scale, so you guys can expect a public beta test soon (as in probably the next few days).
However, it might be very possible, that you will be disappointed by the feeling and the balance in the first versions. If this is the case, please try to figure out, whats the reason and give me feedback.
I will do some more private testgames and fix some last minute issues, and hopefully I can release the beta version this week.
The first release will not support AI, creating a decent one would require a serious amount of time and testing, and I delayed the release long enough ;).
For now, I'd like to finish the few issues left with the current content, then move to balance testing/tweaking and finally release the first version.
AI will probably be implemented for later versions.
Well, tbh, right now I did not even implement pvp in the map at all. This was a part I kinda disliked for the game anyway, since it is absolutely not balanced for pvp. If I would want pvp, I would create an AoS or a hero arena; HLW is heroes vs mobs, and I'd like to focus on that. So there will be DEFINITELY no periodic team battles, maybe a lategame pvp once again, however, I am not even sure about that (yes, I know, this will probably annoy many people, but I like to think, that I will be able to keep the game entertaining without direct pvp)
I will never be able to balance the heroes for pvp anyway, since its all about killing massive amounts of mobs right now. Any hero specialized in single target hero killing would absolutely suck throughout the entire game, just to get a small edge in those (pretty unimportant) hero vs hero fights.
Playing vs computer controlled mobs or playing vs enemy players are 2 entirely different things requiring completely different skills, tactics, items, balance etc etc.
Thanks :)
Well, most people did not like this way of playing, because they were used to the "traditional" way. In a public, the "new" way was not even good, because if you are the only one of your team doing it and everyone els just sends masses, you have no real gain, but a massive lack in income.
However the real fun starts, if all players are familiar with this tactic and act as a team, for example in a 4v4 8 people saving up for powerful creatures and each of them supporting 1 player, which should get all of the kills to maximize income. I remember great games :). For me, this was WAY more fun throughout the entire game, instead of the 30 min farmfest, where not a single mob was a real thread to you, into teleporting to the enemy and abusing whatever hero killing machine you picked (no offense ;) )
Well, both "modes" worked before. The save for harder creeps was more difficult to hold, but it was doable.
Not all spells are psionic stuff ;)
2 examples of the map:
A Jim Raynor hero can fire a salve of uranium shells as a spell, these collide with the first targets they hit and deal ranged damage instead of spell damage.
And an ultralisk can use his ram spell, to damage, stun and knockback units in front of him, which deals melee damage instead of spell damage. Kinda makes sense, no?
On a side note: I would consider the map quite close to beta. I implemented most of the content I wanted, tested most basic features over and over again, not that much more I can do alone. I will most likely start private and/or public play tests very soon to massively test the balance (and everything else, of course, but the balance needs the most work right now, I think).
Just a few things to go, little tweaks like giving the hero spells cooldowns and mana costs (I did not bother until now, because for testing abilities cooldown and mana costs are just obstackles)
Well, HLW was not really balanced for the usual public games, where masses and masses of creeps were sent. Within our clan and in tournaments, another style of play has been developed over time, which included sending very few, but powerful monsters, very early upgrades and as a result, heroes with very little income and level compared to your usual public game.
For this kind of gameplay, most of those "weak" heroes were actually really strong (for example, jaina was an extremely powerful hero for this mode, while the old blademaster prior to his remake pretty much sucked), and most of the times, games ended at around 50-75k income; quite some time before heroes with massive amounts of stats could dominate the creeps.
In SC2, the whole balancing will be completely different; I don't think it is even possible to recreate the exact same behavior like in WC3. We will see, how this works out.
Also, right now the starts, Strength, Agility and Intelligence already have direct influence on ability damage, since agi increases ranged damage, str increases melee damage (some abilities might cause ranged or melee damage as well) and int increases spell damage (so the majority of spells already gets bonus damage from increased intelligence).
Interesting idea, I will think about this one. However, this could be hard to balance, I don't know if I will implement something similar. Most likely not for the first release.
Well, since I officially abandoned the project, I don't want to put any additional effort into it (would only delay the SC2 version for you ;) )
I kinda want to avoid these absolutely huge numbers. While I understand, this was probably the most fun for some people, to give like 50 billion strength to their hero; it makes the game very hard to balance in the later stages and it gets out of control.
I will try to implement the possibility to create very strong heroes still, but without having to use millions of stats to do so.
Damn, I actually forgot about the respawn time reduction xD.
Right now, the spawn area up to approx 1/4 of the lane is visible. Also there is a Xel'Naga Watchtower for each team in a forward position, which gives additional vision, but might be risky to hold, because its very close to the spawn positions of enemy mercs.
Also like said before, I plan on adding observer ward-ish items to further increase vision.
Currently, heroes aren't dependant on the race. There are zerg-themed heroes, but you can pick them, even if you picked the protoss race. The race's only influence is on the types of mercenaries you can send.
I plan on implementing many different modes over time, also most constants should be changeable (like income time, start income, start lifes etc), however right now I have only 2 different mode options: Hero Pick/Random Heroes and Race Pick/Random Races.
Well, you could say ranged heroes are imbalanced in general, with the same argumentation. But melee heroes usually have other advantages, they usually get stronger attacks and more tanking power, which are needed desperately later in the game.
Also would it be imbalanced, if you increase the range of a 6 range hero by 0.5? I guess not, this is a question of balancing the numbers.
Maybe later on, not for the first release. Maybe, I will just scratch auras and start experimenting with other stuff to improve creeps. We will see ;)
@darklordofspawn: Go
Currently, not the whole map is visible. I would like vision range to be a considerable factor; you see only as far as your heroes and your mercenaries see. Thats why there could/probably should be items to extend the visual range somehow.
This might not be final, but I'd like to try it out.
Whats imbalanced with attack range changes? Well, it should not work with melee attacks for obvious reasons, but for ranged heroes it would not be that hard to find balanced numbers for increased range, I guess.
Well, I won't just recreate the HLW RoC items, but I can definitely pick up some of the concepts (well, Heart = HP and regen, Shield = Dmg Reduction and a Critical strike; nothing fancy about those concepts), but I would like the items to scale better; as mentioned you will be able to upgrade them.
So they are not only for the very late game and then suddenly incredibly powerful, but you can purchase most items earlier, with weaker effects and upgrade them later on.
Don't turn yourself down; anyone can have awesome ideas, despite the fact, they might not be able to do them themselves.
Yes, well, these are the obvious ones. Since I would like to have some variety in the items, I need some more fitting attributes for those items.
I want at least 2-3 or more options for the items (for boots or helmets, 2 or 3 might suffice, but for important things like weapons and armor I would like to have some more choices)
However, these are things, which can be done for future updates as well.
Well, sorry Sandman, but he has got a point here :/
Maybe some time in the future; however I somehow dislike the idea of "class-specific" items as well.
Indeed, no real difference how items work, but some more logic behind it (well, at least to some point. Equipping Ultralisk Kaiser Blades with some energy core or a sniper scope might not make that much sense at all :D - well a sniper scope, which extends range should not be available for melee attacks anyway - so much for not having restricted items :-p )
Btw Sandman, I changed the numbers of the items, your comment about 2 weapons etc kinda made sense.
So for now I have 1 slot for each kind except accessory items, which have 2 slots; however the accessory items will have some weaker stats most likely anyways.
So right now we have following slots:
+ the 5 consumable slots
You may suggest some effects for each kind, if you have something in mind. I want the items to be fairly simple, but kinda unique and matching for the item types (so weapons for damage, armor for defense, but not damage on every item type there is). Also for all equipment items, they need to be passive.
For example weapon enhancers would be the main way of increasing your damage, of course. There could be items for ranged damage, melee damage , maybe spell damage. Also, they might increase range for ranged weapons or add stats of any kind.
Vision Enhancers could possibly increase vision (doh), maybe range, maybe spell damage, maybe get you some kind of detection, maybe some defensive capabilities, maybe some stats.
Accessory items could increase stats, spell damage, energy, hp/energy regeneration, something like that
Do you dislike just the points you mentioned, or is anything else bothering you? Or do you even dislike the overall item system?
Well, the numbers can be changed, of course. Like stated, the items are not meant to be a real helmet or weapon, but just similar things (helmet = vision enhancer or something, weapon = weapon enhancer), so it does not really matter if you put for example 2 power cores in 1 weapon :)
I disliked the concept for WC3, where you would equip a sword to cause more damage with your crossbow anyways, but I don't want the unit to change the weapon, when it equips a new one as well. So my items will not be actual weapons and they will not change your weapon. They will just be weapon enhancers and improve certain aspects (same for other item types).
Crossed my mind as well, but I decided against it. It will be hard enough to balance different heroes and different races to send creeps. Hero or race dependent items are overkill imo (not to mention a ton of work).
Well, you can actually give the different slots different background buttons in the data editor, but they do not appear ingame for item containers. For the consumable slots, this works fine. Maybe a bug or an unfinished feature; lets hope they will fix certain inventory issues when they release blizzard dota.
I hope to reach this state as well, trying the map at map night is definitely something i look forward to.
Thanks :)
Of course, the first version will not have like hundreds of heroes; I plan on adding more in later versions of the game.
Good call; I plan on creating individual shops for each type and make very obvious, that you can only have a limited amount of items from this shop equipped.
What about the amount of different slots? I don't want to overdo it, but I have already quite some item types, currently helmet, armor, boots, weapon and accessory + the consumables. I definitely don't want to add much more; in fact I am worried, it could be too much already. What do you think?