Like any other map, just search for it, when creating or joining a game. The name of the map is HeroLineWars, if you type that, you should immediately find it.
I'm sure someone has said this already, but did you get Gui Montag from Fahrenheit 451?
No, Gui Montag is a hero unit from Starcraft 1. He was available in the editor (and maybe had an appearance in the challenger's campaign? I don't remember).
Have a look at this.
€ apparently yes, like CrazyCarl pointed out, the SC version is based on the one from Fahrenheit 451 ;)
First off, US is currently at v.04 so hopefully we can get an update soon ! :D
Yeah, sorry about that. Not that much happened to 0.06, though.
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I think that the lack of a help system was hurting a lot. I messed around with it a bit with just a computer to see what it was like, but couldn't find a game at the time. Looking forward to this release and hopefully can find people to play with now that there is a help system in place too :D.
Actually, you can have a look at the help menu and enable the tip notification, which will provide a huge amount of needed information.
However, noone ever finds that, I am working on a better help system.
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As for Kueken, again the heros seem awesome but I just haven't played with anyone yet. The only things I'd say is it is weird how the shops are on the top and there's only one lane, kind of makes it seem like it should not be HLW, but I probably just need to get used to it more.
The shops seemed a little more sorted, when placed on top.
The single lane was an experiment, depending on feedback it might be changed again (currently its about 50/50 people who like the change vs people who want 2 lanes back)
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Also the terrain looks nice but there's a little too much clutter right now IMO. Could cut down on some of all that crap that's all over the ground, makes it a bit hard to see.
Yes, the terrain definitely needs some work.
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I LOVE the Diablo-styled hotkey belt, such an amazing feature. I hated to have to always click potion on War3 rather than have a hotkey !!!
Actually, WC3 inventory had just the same hotkeys (the numpad numbers), however for SC2 you can change them easily, making them way more useful.
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For the people asking about Kueken's spells, I would not worry about this at all if I were you. Kueken has been working on HLW for years and years and the farther he went on the more and more imaginative he got with his spells. Of course, each hero would have some sort of AoE spell as expected, but there would be some unique stuff too. This really became apparent in his later versions of HLW RoC, just an amazing job. Even when he already had like 36 heros, he was still making new heros that were completely unique and different from the rest. Have faith in everything that Kueken does. :)
Also, keep in mind, that most of these spells for SC2 HLW currently are mere experiments, what the editor can do, how I can realize spells the best way, how I can make them look like. My skills with the editor are constantly improving.
However, like said before, I do not want to make spells too complicated.
For HLW RoC, there were some heroes and spells, which turned out to be very complicated and quite hard to use; most people did not even get all the effects of those spells (for example the Sasquatch Psyker, who had 3 different charge moves, which had some effects when used by themselves and charged the hero, who then could use 1 of 2 finishing moves, which was then improved by the current charge in a unique way - a very fun concept in my opinion, but it resulted in huge wall of text ability descriptions and literally hundreds of people asking me what the fuck this guy can do... :) )
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Hopefully will find people to play with soon. Anyone on US server feel free to add me to play some games of this sometime. CrazyCarl with character code 661.
Good luck :)
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Man - feels weird being so excited and interested in a map I have not even played with another person yet haha =D
Great :)
Thank you for your extensive feedback. I expect more of this, after you actually played the map with some people :)
From watching your hero videos, the spells themselves are very impressive.
However, it looks to me like most spells are just different ways to do AoE damage. In terms of gameplay, how is it much different to kill 10 units with a spell that goes in a line compared to killing 10 units with a spell that has an area-effect target radius? Do you make decisions in your hero design that would force the player to consider which skills they want to use, or is it mostly about players picking their preferred spells for mass slaughter?
Its exactly as you say, many spells just deal AoE-Damage right now, just with different eyecandy. Some spells are a little different, so you actually have some decisions to make, but it does not matter THAT much usually.
This is 100% intended right now, due to multiple reasons: First off, I am still learning, how to handle the editor. I don't want to do overly complicated stuff, when the game is still in development. I will add more complex spells, as soon as the game has a nice basement and a solid balance.
Also I do not like to use overly complicated spells. Sure, they can and probably should have some unique twist to it, but it should not be complicated.
My general goal is, that you get most of the effects of the spell by briefly looking at the tooltip and by using it one time on an enemy.
If you did not understand, how the spell works in general after that, its probably too complicated (this does not mean, that you already need to know every possible way of using the spell)
Especially for new players, the beginning is even harder, if every spell has like tons of effects and you have no idea, how to use them effectively.
Take Diablo 2 as an example: Almost all useful spells did nothing but damage to multiple monsters somehow; almost all spells were very simple and straightforward; you got most of the effects usually by casting the spell once. Each kind of in its own way, but not that many different effects other than pure damage.
Still, a huge amount of spells were utilized and created heroes with a very different gameplay.
Over time, this will probably change, I will introduce different spells and probably change existing ones, but for now, I'd like to keep it simple.
And actually, the difference between killing units in an AoE-Circle and in a line is quite a huge one: Just play it, the feeling for most heroes is quite different, even if the abilities do not differ that much.
Very little changes can create a whole different feeling; for example take 2 heroes with a Shockwave: one has low CD less AoE, less damage and less energy cost, the other one more CD, AoE, damage and huge energy costs. While both abilites do the same thing, both heroes play very different.
You get how many lives? I'd say 40 lives is a big chunk, unless you've got like 100k lives, which I doubt would happen. And you need to check your math...the carriers themselves also cause more lives to be lost, no?
Might also be worth mentioning, that interceptors are constantly reproduced ;)
Same problem with Broodlords; also both interceptors and broodlings provide money and experience, if I am not mistaken. I will most likely change all that.
Also, the Mothership seems to be much stronge than Kerrigan or the Odin, I will probably change something about that (either nerf the Mothership or buff the other ones; probably a combination of both)
I'd say remove observers. Most people would want to play instead of watch ( Except in map night :P )
Well, I am not sure. For the usual mapmaking stuff, it does not matter anyway. If you just join by popularity list, ther will be no observers anyway, so no possibility for the bug to ever happen.
Observers are only useful for private games, and in this case you probably know the people you are playing with and can set up everything correctly.
During Map Night we discovered a major bug with observers: If you set up observers and change the teams afterwards (for example move a player from observers in one team, to make another player an observer), sometimes the whole lobby will screw up, resulting in 3v5 matches or other strange bugs.
This seems to be caused by Blizzard's flawed lobby system, and I doubt, I can fix this.
So, should I deactivate observers to get rid of this potential game-breaking bug? Or should I allow the possibility for observers and allow the bug to happen?
The current income rate for units varies from 8 to 4 percent (very straight forward, tier 1: first line 8%, second 7%, third 6%. Tier 2: first 7%, second 6%, third 5% and so on), averaging to 6%. So, theoretically speaking, we get 6% interest each income period (assuming we always can and will spend all our money to mercenaries, don't get money from killing mercs and don't buy any items etc as well as don't count upgrade costs and start money)
So, at each point in game time, income should be about StartIncome * (1 + average interest) ^ (time / income interval).
For a 30 minute game at current settings, this would be 200 * 1.06 ^ (1800 / 18) ~ 68k.
So, with your non-perfect gameplay, I still wonder, why the discrepancy is that high...
Also note, that this is very sensitive, due to the nature of the formula. If I increase overall income by 1%, we are at 173k (about 2.5 times more), if I decrease by 1%, we are at 26k (about same factor, just for a 1% change)
I thought editing the XML values could make the inventory work for all resolutions :O? I assumed you could edit the width and height of the inventory panel to match the default portrait pos and dimensions. I'm sort of new to the whole UI override concept, so I never thought resolutions would mess it up :S.
Afaik all UI editing in SC2 is not handled in screen percentages, but in pixels (well, sort of. Not exactly pixels, but parts, which become more for higher resolutions ;) )
So if the inventory is hovering over the portrait in one resolution, it might block the command card in another. Moving it to match this resolution will probably cover the wireframe for a 3rd...
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Ahh, that's a shame. You can't make a trigger that goes something like this?
Event: A unit upgrades an ability
Condition: Upgrade points remaining <= 0
Actions: Order (Hero) to Cancel (Before Current Orders)
Like I said, I don't have any experience with heroes in sc2 yet, but I thought something like that would be possible. Even deselecting and reselecting the hero faster than the user could notice would probably work.
I wish there was, but I did not find any way to check for remaining upgrade points. Selecting would always be noticeable, because it is affected by bnet lag. However, closing the submenu would be possible, I think.
Fantastic job. I didn't play a full game (couldn't find another player, so I just went in solo to get a feel for it). I don't know if you want suggestions here, but I'm gonna go ahead with the constructive criticism anyway.
Any feedback you can give me is very much apprechiated.
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The abilties were great. In response to what the person above me said, perhaps you can leave the long writeups (I didn't mind them) and simply have one line at the end of the ability that is a different colour (to stand out), which gives a summary + stats on the attack/boost/etc.
There should be different colors already. The lore text is greyed out, the summary should be 1 to 2 lines in standard color, and important additional info is blue. Just always skip the grey parts.
The use tooltip has no lore text, usually holds all the important current values and repeats the blue important information text.
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It would be nice if there were some markers around the spawns. When I first started, I thought the enemies would spawn in the water at the end of the lane, but it became apparent quite quickly that they were spawning all around me.
Good call, I will think of anything.
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The idle worker icon is inside the inventory panel. Moving the inventory panel, or using a UI alteration XML to move the worker icon is probably a good idea. I think it would also help if you left the inventory panel open permanently. You could even move the inventory panel over the unit's portrait (and then hide the portrait), so it feels like it fits into the UI better.
Well, you do not need the equipment inventory THAT much, the consumable slots are more crucial.
Moving over unit portrait is probably not gonna happen, because of the resolution variations; I dont think, there is a way, this fits for all possible resolutions.
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I've never liked the way heroes seem to work in SC2 (They're one of the few things I haven't tried creating yet). I feel like if it's possible to rectify these problems, the game might play a little better (not saying it doesn't play well....you did a great job, Blizzard just did a lousy job with heroes. HotS will fix these issues, I assume). First and foremost, when you spend your last upgrade/ability point, the command card doesn't automatically reset to default. You have to manually exit the ability upgrade command card.
There are 2 ways currently: Either close the command card after every point you spend, or stay open, even after all points are spent. I am not sure, which one is better; but I did not find a possibility to combine both yet.
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Second, it's difficult to tell what the attributes (strength, agility, intelligence) actually do. More specifically, which hero uses which attribute to increase its damage. If you go with a random hero, you know nothing about its attributes, what items are best for you, etc;
Just hover the mouse over your attributes, there should be tooltips for them. Str increases HP and melee damage, Agi increases attack speed and ranged damage, Int increases energy and spell damage.
Obviously, a hero with a melee attack will cause melee damage, and a hero with a ranged attack will cause ranged damage ;). For spells, the damage type is always stated in blue color. Usually it is spell damage, however, there are a few exceptions.
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The only other thing I can think of would be the income rate. It seemed like I was getting waaaayyyy too many minerals. If I actually managed to spend them all, my hero would have been swarmed immediately. My hero also respawned immediately. I know you said balance work is still being done, but those should definitely be high priority.
I had 1 game of the new HLW (1v1) and i gotta admit it feels a hell of alot different. A few topics i would like to bring up:
The incredibly wide map. Its kind of annoying how wide the lanes are....it just doesn't feel right :S
Nothing's final about the map, I just needed a map for this to work. It might and probably will get changed.
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The shops. I had absolutely no idea what was what and where i had to buy the right stuff. Perhaps giving the shops titles (visible above the shops) or perhaps a sign above the shops stating what they are eg: potions, helmets ect. I know you can view what the shop is when you click on it, but playing for the first time i was clueless and my opponent mentioned he bought alot of items that he didnt want.
I will add much more and especially obvious information for the shops (not only for them, for many aspects of the game, which lack explanation)
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Skills. The skills are great....so far since ive played one guy but...when i am playing a game in which waves of powerful enemies are comming at me constantly i dont have time to read a paragraph of information about a skill. When i click/mouse over on a skill the first thing a read is Defensive buffs (usually i see them in a blue/ green box or text) Offensive buffs (perhaps orange colour) Damage skills ( red colour and i concentrate on reading digits first! i always want to know asap how much damage the skills does and whether is an AoE or single nuke. Perhaps giving the skills a category title beside their name like AoE/nuke, Buff, Aura, ect. I'm mentioning this because i didnt have time to read what skills i should upgrade since strong enemies were already comming at me and it was quite frustrating knowing that the skill that i picked was not useful for my situation.
I like a short, concise line of explanation way more than a fix categorization.
The learn tooltip usually has 3 parts:
The first, grey part is unimportant for gameplay, it consists some story and background. Just skip that.
The second part should be a 1 to 2 line explanation, what the skill does. Just read this, and you should know, what type the spell is.
The third part in blue has some additional information, like if the spell is passive, or which type of damage it causes.
If you just skip the first paragraph, are the descriptions still too long to choose one skill from 3?
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Different map, different feel, not sure if im liking it...atleast in 1v1
The feeling is different, yes. This was inevitable, and I like, that the feeling is indeed different. Its a different game, a different platform, after all.
I am not sure, if I am absolutely fine with the current feeling, but it might change anyway.
However, compared to the first few versions I tested by myself, I am positively surprised, how the feeling worked out (in the beginning, it felt just horrible, and I was almost sure, I would never be able to achieve a sort of good feeling).
Ah, good to know ;) I did not know, what he was referring to, I am not that good with all the Starcraft lore.
Like any other map, just search for it, when creating or joining a game. The name of the map is HeroLineWars, if you type that, you should immediately find it.
No, Gui Montag is a hero unit from Starcraft 1. He was available in the editor (and maybe had an appearance in the challenger's campaign? I don't remember).
Have a look at this.
€ apparently yes, like CrazyCarl pointed out, the SC version is based on the one from Fahrenheit 451 ;)
Yeah, sorry about that. Not that much happened to 0.06, though.
Actually, you can have a look at the help menu and enable the tip notification, which will provide a huge amount of needed information.
However, noone ever finds that, I am working on a better help system.
The shops seemed a little more sorted, when placed on top.
The single lane was an experiment, depending on feedback it might be changed again (currently its about 50/50 people who like the change vs people who want 2 lanes back)
Yes, the terrain definitely needs some work.
Actually, WC3 inventory had just the same hotkeys (the numpad numbers), however for SC2 you can change them easily, making them way more useful.
Also, keep in mind, that most of these spells for SC2 HLW currently are mere experiments, what the editor can do, how I can realize spells the best way, how I can make them look like. My skills with the editor are constantly improving.
However, like said before, I do not want to make spells too complicated.
For HLW RoC, there were some heroes and spells, which turned out to be very complicated and quite hard to use; most people did not even get all the effects of those spells (for example the Sasquatch Psyker, who had 3 different charge moves, which had some effects when used by themselves and charged the hero, who then could use 1 of 2 finishing moves, which was then improved by the current charge in a unique way - a very fun concept in my opinion, but it resulted in huge wall of text ability descriptions and literally hundreds of people asking me what the fuck this guy can do... :) )
Good luck :)
Great :)
Thank you for your extensive feedback. I expect more of this, after you actually played the map with some people :)
It does currently :)
Its exactly as you say, many spells just deal AoE-Damage right now, just with different eyecandy. Some spells are a little different, so you actually have some decisions to make, but it does not matter THAT much usually.
This is 100% intended right now, due to multiple reasons: First off, I am still learning, how to handle the editor. I don't want to do overly complicated stuff, when the game is still in development. I will add more complex spells, as soon as the game has a nice basement and a solid balance.
Also I do not like to use overly complicated spells. Sure, they can and probably should have some unique twist to it, but it should not be complicated.
My general goal is, that you get most of the effects of the spell by briefly looking at the tooltip and by using it one time on an enemy.
If you did not understand, how the spell works in general after that, its probably too complicated (this does not mean, that you already need to know every possible way of using the spell)
Especially for new players, the beginning is even harder, if every spell has like tons of effects and you have no idea, how to use them effectively.
Take Diablo 2 as an example: Almost all useful spells did nothing but damage to multiple monsters somehow; almost all spells were very simple and straightforward; you got most of the effects usually by casting the spell once. Each kind of in its own way, but not that many different effects other than pure damage.
Still, a huge amount of spells were utilized and created heroes with a very different gameplay.
Over time, this will probably change, I will introduce different spells and probably change existing ones, but for now, I'd like to keep it simple.
And actually, the difference between killing units in an AoE-Circle and in a line is quite a huge one: Just play it, the feeling for most heroes is quite different, even if the abilities do not differ that much.
Very little changes can create a whole different feeling; for example take 2 heroes with a Shockwave: one has low CD less AoE, less damage and less energy cost, the other one more CD, AoE, damage and huge energy costs. While both abilites do the same thing, both heroes play very different.
I am working on a kind of big update with vastly improved help features. However, this still requires some work and testing.
Also you might notice, that I implemented a link to the changelogs as you suggested ;)
Might also be worth mentioning, that interceptors are constantly reproduced ;)
Same problem with Broodlords; also both interceptors and broodlings provide money and experience, if I am not mistaken. I will most likely change all that.
Also, the Mothership seems to be much stronge than Kerrigan or the Odin, I will probably change something about that (either nerf the Mothership or buff the other ones; probably a combination of both)
Well, I am not sure. For the usual mapmaking stuff, it does not matter anyway. If you just join by popularity list, ther will be no observers anyway, so no possibility for the bug to ever happen.
Observers are only useful for private games, and in this case you probably know the people you are playing with and can set up everything correctly.
During Map Night we discovered a major bug with observers: If you set up observers and change the teams afterwards (for example move a player from observers in one team, to make another player an observer), sometimes the whole lobby will screw up, resulting in 3v5 matches or other strange bugs.
This seems to be caused by Blizzard's flawed lobby system, and I doubt, I can fix this.
So, should I deactivate observers to get rid of this potential game-breaking bug? Or should I allow the possibility for observers and allow the bug to happen?
@Shad0wsEdge: Go
The current income rate for units varies from 8 to 4 percent (very straight forward, tier 1: first line 8%, second 7%, third 6%. Tier 2: first 7%, second 6%, third 5% and so on), averaging to 6%. So, theoretically speaking, we get 6% interest each income period (assuming we always can and will spend all our money to mercenaries, don't get money from killing mercs and don't buy any items etc as well as don't count upgrade costs and start money)
So, at each point in game time, income should be about StartIncome * (1 + average interest) ^ (time / income interval).
For a 30 minute game at current settings, this would be 200 * 1.06 ^ (1800 / 18) ~ 68k.
So, with your non-perfect gameplay, I still wonder, why the discrepancy is that high...
Also note, that this is very sensitive, due to the nature of the formula. If I increase overall income by 1%, we are at 173k (about 2.5 times more), if I decrease by 1%, we are at 26k (about same factor, just for a 1% change)
Afaik all UI editing in SC2 is not handled in screen percentages, but in pixels (well, sort of. Not exactly pixels, but parts, which become more for higher resolutions ;) )
So if the inventory is hovering over the portrait in one resolution, it might block the command card in another. Moving it to match this resolution will probably cover the wireframe for a 3rd...
I wish there was, but I did not find any way to check for remaining upgrade points. Selecting would always be noticeable, because it is affected by bnet lag. However, closing the submenu would be possible, I think.
Any feedback you can give me is very much apprechiated.
There should be different colors already. The lore text is greyed out, the summary should be 1 to 2 lines in standard color, and important additional info is blue. Just always skip the grey parts.
The use tooltip has no lore text, usually holds all the important current values and repeats the blue important information text.
Good call, I will think of anything.
Well, you do not need the equipment inventory THAT much, the consumable slots are more crucial.
Moving over unit portrait is probably not gonna happen, because of the resolution variations; I dont think, there is a way, this fits for all possible resolutions.
There are 2 ways currently: Either close the command card after every point you spend, or stay open, even after all points are spent. I am not sure, which one is better; but I did not find a possibility to combine both yet.
Just hover the mouse over your attributes, there should be tooltips for them. Str increases HP and melee damage, Agi increases attack speed and ranged damage, Int increases energy and spell damage.
Obviously, a hero with a melee attack will cause melee damage, and a hero with a ranged attack will cause ranged damage ;). For spells, the damage type is always stated in blue color. Usually it is spell damage, however, there are a few exceptions.
I will play around with this for a while.
Maybe they just choose whats at the top of the list ;)
Thanks. I am sure, there will be. Just hang out in the channel, maybe others will pick up that habit ;)
Nothing's final about the map, I just needed a map for this to work. It might and probably will get changed.
I will add much more and especially obvious information for the shops (not only for them, for many aspects of the game, which lack explanation)
I like a short, concise line of explanation way more than a fix categorization.
The learn tooltip usually has 3 parts:
The first, grey part is unimportant for gameplay, it consists some story and background. Just skip that.
The second part should be a 1 to 2 line explanation, what the skill does. Just read this, and you should know, what type the spell is.
The third part in blue has some additional information, like if the spell is passive, or which type of damage it causes.
If you just skip the first paragraph, are the descriptions still too long to choose one skill from 3?
The feeling is different, yes. This was inevitable, and I like, that the feeling is indeed different. Its a different game, a different platform, after all.
I am not sure, if I am absolutely fine with the current feeling, but it might change anyway.
However, compared to the first few versions I tested by myself, I am positively surprised, how the feeling worked out (in the beginning, it felt just horrible, and I was almost sure, I would never be able to achieve a sort of good feeling).
Thanks :)
Lurking on page 3 ;)
I am working on a promotion video, maybe it will attract some more players.
Should be up and running for NA as well as SEA servers, published by nevjmac.
The map will be uploaded to the NA servers anytime soon.