Was just too curious so here's another video link: Data vs Trigger
On the left we have one controlled by the data method, on the right we have one bound with rrowland's trigger method and its data abilities disabled via trigger at map init. I made sure not to try any of the diagonal directions to avoid any current short comings of the data system's axis of movement. Here's the uncut raw results from 2 minutes on battle net:
Looks in all practicality exactly the same. I'd be interested to know if the trigger one takes longer than the data when there's a lot of traffic; aka moving two hundred of them at once. Any chance you could upload the map?
awe crap its long gone from my feed of files but I'm going to take a guess and assume it'd react the same way regardless of how many units are involved. From what I understand of the starcraft engine the unit maneuvers and well everything with the engine has been designed in a fashion that's able to ignore system/CPU/network lag and continue on its job regardless of those factors. So yah you'd get the same reactions from 1 or 1000.
That's interesting to see the two compared 1v1 there - it's hard to tell the difference between the two types individually xD
However there are still benefits to the trigger system (e.g. 8-way movement) and it still runs just fine in most maps (vast improvement from Warcraft3).
I think the data-based system may be preferable for FPS games (less lag, no 8-directional movement), but I'll stick with my trigger-based system for my Final Fantasy based map.
...and you realize that the reason I picked each individually at the start was to show that the one on the right has its data command card abilities disabled and is instead being powered by the trigger based method?
Well im not quite sure about this but if one of the units has the command card and the other still has the abilities dont the commands still effect the unit with its buttons missing.... eh..... Im not too up on how the Unit Selection leader thing works
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Does any unit gain the abilities of a unit with a command card ability by being in the same group? Same deal. And yah I didn't edit any of the move offsets between them either since it was irrelevant, the key factor is when I pressed a key how quickly would each change directions and far as I can tell it was identical reaction time.
Incidentally, I noticed the main difference about halfway through the video when Bump was rapidly changing from left to right directions. Seems the one on the right (triggers) worked differently there. Triggers Stalker moved mostly to the left and Data Stalker moved back and forth appropriately. This could be the result of lots of different things, but my guess is that, as someone mentioned before, the triggers are run less often. So while Triggers Stalker still moved both left and right, it actually did both in one "trigger pass" and so the movement to the right didn't matter.
Anyway, it's sort of a moot point because you'd have to be entering commands at just the right rate to see what we saw there, but it does seem like the data version is a little better in that demonstration
Also, BumpInTheNight, can you give us the source for your earlier video's map with the laser-shooting stalker? That has several things in it that I want to implement, such as the click-shooting.
Aye never really noticed that particular chunk of the video in that light before but yah the data one does seem to keep with the keys a little better, that could also just be me accidentally hitting up two keys at once as well. Was trying to avoid the SE/NE/SW/NW directions due to the data editor version being unable to cope with them. The map that first video comes from is the SCCAP - Infernal, it was in very early testing stages and I'm still tweaking that engine quite a bit but I intend to release the entire cabunk in soon as I'm satisfied with it all. Better details about the project are here: http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/project-workplace/11622-release-sc-capture-assault-pwn-infernal/
Wish I'd kept that map from the comparison in one state or another, unfortunately while the thing is still in my published list on the NA region its private and likely I'd set it locked , it really wouldn't be that hard to reproduce it though, essentially take the map Programmer provided and import a trigger based wasd library and then disable the abilities of one of the units/config it to use the trigger one.
Wow, I hadn't explored much of the site. That's really quite fleshed out. I'd be really interested to see how you actually accomplished the bouncing lasers and so forth.
My intended game is something similar, but it would be based on an old 3DO / PSX game, Return Fire. It's 1v1 capture-the-flag with 4 distinct vehicle types, and I can see it translating well into a Starcraft 2 map/mod. I'm very new to the editor, and decidedly unfamiliar with anything outside triggers (because that's all I used in StarEdit), so I'm collecting information for the "hacks" and deep-down modifications required for this control scheme among other things.
At any rate, it seems your module's source would hand me a good 20% of the Return Fire-inspired game on a silver platter, for which I would be greatly indebted to you.
Man yah no worries you definitely add to the knowledge base and are a genuine credit to this community meanwhile all I've ever seen from progRammer are various iterations of jRape emulators.
is the 8 ways still in development? ive been waiting for a save file of it so i can check out some things
Given the minuscule gain and huge efforts required I'm not planning on doing that. You can base it on the very detailed tutorials to make your own 8 way. It is not only for uses of WASD but for people to learn and understand the behavior/ability linkage in the data editor also.
Given the minuscule gain and huge efforts required I'm not planning on doing that. You can base it on the very detailed tutorials to make your own 8 way. It is not only for uses of WASD but for people to learn and understand the behavior/ability linkage in the data editor also.
oh... ok, well how do i download the wasd attachment, it just sends me to a page with all the text of the file.
and you should probly take off the 8 way section saying its still in development
Was just too curious so here's another video link: Data vs Trigger
On the left we have one controlled by the data method, on the right we have one bound with rrowland's trigger method and its data abilities disabled via trigger at map init. I made sure not to try any of the diagonal directions to avoid any current short comings of the data system's axis of movement. Here's the uncut raw results from 2 minutes on battle net:
Interpret it as you will.
Looks in all practicality exactly the same. I'd be interested to know if the trigger one takes longer than the data when there's a lot of traffic; aka moving two hundred of them at once. Any chance you could upload the map?
@Introversity: Go
awe crap its long gone from my feed of files but I'm going to take a guess and assume it'd react the same way regardless of how many units are involved. From what I understand of the starcraft engine the unit maneuvers and well everything with the engine has been designed in a fashion that's able to ignore system/CPU/network lag and continue on its job regardless of those factors. So yah you'd get the same reactions from 1 or 1000.
That's interesting to see the two compared 1v1 there - it's hard to tell the difference between the two types individually xD
However there are still benefits to the trigger system (e.g. 8-way movement) and it still runs just fine in most maps (vast improvement from Warcraft3).
I think the data-based system may be preferable for FPS games (less lag, no 8-directional movement), but I'll stick with my trigger-based system for my Final Fantasy based map.
Eh
are both of those even set up to move the same distance when activated trigger compared to the data move?
It looks like in the video your issuing the data commands to both of them
really need something where multiple players are making quick movement changes to see the differences
@SouLCarveRR: Go
...and you realize that the reason I picked each individually at the start was to show that the one on the right has its data command card abilities disabled and is instead being powered by the trigger based method?
@BumpInTheNight: Go
Well im not quite sure about this but if one of the units has the command card and the other still has the abilities dont the commands still effect the unit with its buttons missing.... eh..... Im not too up on how the Unit Selection leader thing works
@SouLCarveRR: Go
Does any unit gain the abilities of a unit with a command card ability by being in the same group? Same deal. And yah I didn't edit any of the move offsets between them either since it was irrelevant, the key factor is when I pressed a key how quickly would each change directions and far as I can tell it was identical reaction time.
@BumpInTheNight: Go
Very good video. As expected I see no benefit with regards to response times from the data driven movement.
@BumpInTheNight: Go
I would think data would shine more when theres alot of shit going on in the game....
Incidentally, I noticed the main difference about halfway through the video when Bump was rapidly changing from left to right directions. Seems the one on the right (triggers) worked differently there. Triggers Stalker moved mostly to the left and Data Stalker moved back and forth appropriately. This could be the result of lots of different things, but my guess is that, as someone mentioned before, the triggers are run less often. So while Triggers Stalker still moved both left and right, it actually did both in one "trigger pass" and so the movement to the right didn't matter.
Anyway, it's sort of a moot point because you'd have to be entering commands at just the right rate to see what we saw there, but it does seem like the data version is a little better in that demonstration
Also, BumpInTheNight, can you give us the source for your earlier video's map with the laser-shooting stalker? That has several things in it that I want to implement, such as the click-shooting.
@GKimsey: Go
Aye never really noticed that particular chunk of the video in that light before but yah the data one does seem to keep with the keys a little better, that could also just be me accidentally hitting up two keys at once as well. Was trying to avoid the SE/NE/SW/NW directions due to the data editor version being unable to cope with them. The map that first video comes from is the SCCAP - Infernal, it was in very early testing stages and I'm still tweaking that engine quite a bit but I intend to release the entire cabunk in soon as I'm satisfied with it all. Better details about the project are here:
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/project-workplace/11622-release-sc-capture-assault-pwn-infernal/
Wish I'd kept that map from the comparison in one state or another, unfortunately while the thing is still in my published list on the NA region its private and likely I'd set it locked , it really wouldn't be that hard to reproduce it though, essentially take the map Programmer provided and import a trigger based wasd library and then disable the abilities of one of the units/config it to use the trigger one.
@BumpInTheNight: Go
Well he wanted the targeting thing on your map, my map only has the "lost viking" missile firing.
And please don't confuse me with progRammer, that guy is so lame, why would he put his job on his nickname anyway.
I might try to do one turning system or see if smt can be improve with this one (though not likely) in the future
@progammer: Go
I know the feeling! Someone used to call me Skittle! I'm Skittles! Plural! Gah! Some people... =P
@BumpInTheNight: Go
Wow, I hadn't explored much of the site. That's really quite fleshed out. I'd be really interested to see how you actually accomplished the bouncing lasers and so forth.
My intended game is something similar, but it would be based on an old 3DO / PSX game, Return Fire. It's 1v1 capture-the-flag with 4 distinct vehicle types, and I can see it translating well into a Starcraft 2 map/mod. I'm very new to the editor, and decidedly unfamiliar with anything outside triggers (because that's all I used in StarEdit), so I'm collecting information for the "hacks" and deep-down modifications required for this control scheme among other things.
You may have happened across my first post here http://forums.sc2mapster.com/development/triggers/11710-creating-3d-ui-elements-lines-on-terrain-color-fills/#p14 which has led to some interesting information but not the answer I was hoping for. That thread represents the roadblock to one of my other ideas. There's a third idea for a poker defense that actually has you bet at a table that I want to put together, too.
At any rate, it seems your module's source would hand me a good 20% of the Return Fire-inspired game on a silver platter, for which I would be greatly indebted to you.
...We are WAY off topic at this point.
@progammer: Go
Man yah no worries you definitely add to the knowledge base and are a genuine credit to this community meanwhile all I've ever seen from progRammer are various iterations of jRape emulators.
@GKimsey: Go
A silver platter awaits in your PM.
is the 8 ways still in development? ive been waiting for a save file of it so i can check out some things
Given the minuscule gain and huge efforts required I'm not planning on doing that. You can base it on the very detailed tutorials to make your own 8 way. It is not only for uses of WASD but for people to learn and understand the behavior/ability linkage in the data editor also.
oh... ok, well how do i download the wasd attachment, it just sends me to a page with all the text of the file. and you should probly take off the 8 way section saying its still in development
@fireblade212: Go
Right click and save as.. I think, the forum attempt to open it for some reasons.
http://static.sc2mapster.com/content/attachments/6/238/wasd.SC2Map