SC2Mapster

Update - November 2010

Hey everyone. So far a lot of progress has been made and my current goal of releasing a playable demo will hopefully come before the end of this year. I have completed the starting unit statistics as well as the starting classes.

Numbers: 8 Attributes, 4 Stat Modifiers, 100 Classes, 5 Tiers and 1 Hardcore Mode

The first release will have an amount of 50 playable classes, divided into 5 tiers. 8 starting classes, 12 tier 2 classes and 10 classes in tiers 3,4, and 5. The higher the tier, the more powerful the class, but the harder to obtain and higher the cost. I have also added a "hardcore" setting for unit classes. When this is unlocked, all classes will essentially split, giving a total of 100 classes. The original class will stay the same, but the "hardcore" class will have a different name much higher stats, and like the name suggests (for fans of Diablo) once the unit dies, it cannot be revived. This combines the "hard-luck" unit deaths from Fire Emblem with the never-dying units found in games such as Disgaea.

Breaking it Down

Level Cap

All of this probably seems daunting and overly complicated but my goal here is to allow the player to play to their level of comfort. For those who enjoy the statistical aspect of tactics games will be able to explore this in depth while at the same time those who want to enjoy the story (single player mode) or multi player game play. This will become more clear as the first release comes out, but to put it plainly, you don't have to grind out 5000+ levels for each unit in order to enjoy the game but by the same token, game play doesn't necessarily stop at level 99 or after playing with 5 or 6 classes.

Statistics: Attributes and Modifiers

• Stats: These are the values that are decided by attributes and modifiers and in some cases talents/abilities
• Level - Current level of the unit, value from 1 to 9999
• Move - Amount of grids a unit can move during a turn. Currently 1 is the minimum and 9 is the max.
• Speed - Determines movement order, value from 0.01 to 9.99
• Counter - The amount of times (if at all) a unit can attack back when it is attacked, value from 0 to 3(pending)
• Health - A value that defines how much damage a unit can take before it is knocked out.
• Energy - A value that defines how much a unit can use it's abilities.
• Defense - An overall rating of the unit's ability to withstand damage
• Attack - An overall rating of the unit's ability to cause damage
• Damage - Displays the offensive damage this unit can cause. It is displayed as (Damage Low - Damage High) with the actual value being a random number in the middle.

• Attributes: These are the meat of what makes a class unique, each of these values changes drastically as a unit levels
• Strength - A major factor in the offensive capabilities of a unit, also decreases damage taken to a lesser extent
• Stamina - Mainly modifies the health pool by a base of 15 points per stamina
• Agility - Modifies defense, critical chance, chance to hit and more.
• Power - Mainly modifies the energy pool by a base of 10 points per power, also increases ability damage.
• Endurance - Controls the defensive capabilities of the unit and it's ability to take damage, also boosts health.
• Luck - This attribute affects various things in various ways, sort of the wildcard of the bunch.

• Modifiers: These percentages effect the chances of defensive and offensive events taking place
• Evasion - Modifies the unit's ability to avoid taking damage. Max 89.99%
• Reduction - Modifies the amount of damage taken from any given attack. Max 84.99%
• Accuracy - Modifies the chance to land a hit on an opponent. Max 98.99%
• Critical - Modifies the chance to land a strong hit (2.5x Damage) on an opponent. Max 69.99% Note: All of the above maximum values are subject to change and are currently just ballpark values. However, all the modifier max values would be less than 100%.

Each class gets a base stat value as well as a per-level increment value. For the modifiers (percentage to hit/defend/miss/crit etc) the same system is in place however the increment is much smaller than the base value and often has a cap.

Classes

The included image shows all 50 classes, plus the 2 hero classes (green boxes). The red boxes are classes that are yet to be completed.

Multiplayer: Different Modes

The way I see it, for multiplayer to work, there has to be some sort of "middleground" so that players can play eachother regardless of the possible massive gap in unit levels. My idea to fix this is currently to allow different modes of multiplayer. A mode fight another player with your armies completely untouched, i.e. someone with 10 Lvl 800 units can fight someone with 10 Lvl 10 units. Obviously this wouldn't be the mode for players with that sort of level difference, it would be for players who have either reached the top level or are within the upper ecehelon 7500-9999 lvl units when they are averaged out. The second and probably more popular mode include creating an army before the battle given an overal level allottment, this way the map can be played by people right off the bat and no existing army save file is needed. Lastly, for those who wish to work on armies and upkeep them can fight other armies in a sort of handicapped fight. The handicapping method will be talked about more later, but currently it will be something similar to other handicap systems that exist in games, however I want to really focus on keeping the integrity of the army. These three modes are subject to change as well as have things added to or taken away from them.

Very interested in this, as I had a similar idea for a game but I don't think it will ever come to light =]. Plus your version looks better.

When do you expect this to be on the bnet list?

The UI of the whole thing looks amazing. This looks like it'll be a great map. Two thumbs up for following Disgaea for lvl cap.

Quote from Mephs: Go

When do you expect this to be on the bnet list?

Quote from xShaelis: Go

When do you expect this to be on the bnet list?

@Mephs: Go @xShaelis: Go

Right now I'm working hard to get a playable demo with 2 player capabilities and maybe 8-10 classes as soon as possible. (The official game will be 4 players, if I can get it running smoothly with that many people). I hope to have a demo out within 2-3 weeks, but possibly before then.

Minor Update

Map Size Issues

The main issue is add-on models and model textures. Out of the 50 classes, only about 5 classes use SC2 models and there are some props and buildings to give it the steampunk feel that I am going for. For the GUI, everything is being created on the fly/modified constantly, so that's time consuming BUT the actual combat engine is done! All I need to code is the bridge that lets you access the various game modes as well as saving and loading armies. So, add all this up and I am at about 50.4 MB of data not counting the 2-3MB of pure code. I'll have to skim down some unused models/textures (which I know some got left over), the smaller the better, but I won't do anything to hurt the unique look of each class.

Popularity System

On the topic of listing on BNet, last I heard the maximum amount for someone to upload is 5 maps/50MBs so the above should be fine. The way that Blizzard is doing the listing, however, seems like it might be a hassle, since from what I have learned, they're using a popularity system that bases popularity on how many people are hosting said map. Correct me if I am wrong about the system, but with this being said, constantly releasing working demo updates would seem to benefit rather than the more often used system of an alpha, beta, and full release. So depending on how things go, expect a lot of releases after the first one.

Help

Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated and of course you will be given credit. I'm currently setting up a quick website for the game and info on it at GrimDot.com. I am in great need of a smart class guide, i.e. what classes unlock higher tier classes. In my previous post you'll find the 50 class chart with vertical columns depicting the 5 tiers of classes. An example would be :

• Defender Requirements: Soldier Lv. 20, Monk Lv. 25

The only limit is that I would prefer to stay around level 100-250 or the final classes as I don't want the maximum level to be required to see all the content.

Quote from llou: Go

So, add all this up and I am at about 50.4 MB of data not counting the 2-3MB of pure code.

Err................

I thought bnet only allowed up to 10mb for 1 map?

@Mephs: Go

I heard it was in terms of total amounts, like "up to" 5 maps, and "up to" a total of 50MBs. If you're right though, then the only thing the game would lose is the medieval/steampunk doodads as the unit models are less than 8-9 MBs. I'll try to confirm.

Edit: "...increased custom map upload limits in two ways. Players are now provided with a total of 10 custom map slots and up to 50 mbs of total map storage space." -Source

I definitely took this to mean a total of 50mbs for you to use overall, but reading the comments and other sources I see that it is indeed 10MB. Looking at the Euro servers, they have 20MB, so maybe by the time I release this, it will be higher than 10MB, but for now I'll have to resize. Such a powerful tool, with an archaic amount of memory available...I guess I can always have a "deluxe" version with as many MBs of data as I want and have that for offline play, like the campaign and training your army.

Thanks for the heads up, Mephs.

@llou: Go

I would definitely play this... I mean... Final Fantasy Tactics is just... my #1 game OF ALL TIME SCREW YOU BLIZZARD!! lol. But seriously, it is my #1 of all time, no jokes. Disgaea series is a close third... I mean OMG, tons of levels, classes, reincarnation, genders, and then you could actually GO INTO ITEMS and explore 100 levels per item... from swords to candy, Disgaea was just TOO epic.

I'd definitely play Hardcore mode too.

I believe once Blizzard gets it's premium map system going, I think it will be 20MB per map, I might have read that wrong though.

if its a bit like heroes of might and magic in a way ill <3 for the rest of my life...

@BorgDragon: Go

@deleted_4551290: Go

Well I am basically trying to do what I have been working on for years under different programming languages, mostly held back by lack of art, to create the perfect turn base strategy game. Adding elements from every great game in the genre, plus I have a bunch of other ideas so the combination should be pretty great. Plus nothing beats beta testing 9,999 levels for 50+ different units.

December Update

Things have been moving along very nicely. If you've read the previous posts, you'll see that I mistakenly went over the map size limit by about 40MB. So what I did was rework my models and have actually ended up with my goal of 50 different units over 4 tiers with a 51st class that serves as your "main character". My entire map size is now about 9.4 MB including code and all and it's time to tune the classes.

Combat

Combat is coming along great. Lately I have pushed more towards the Fire Emblem realm, with mounted units in the higher tiers and those armor bloated Knights and Generals that I used to love. Each class has about 1 special ability on top of their normal attack. That special ability pretty much defines the class. Higher tiers have more than 1. So let's say you want a nice team of Archers to use a long distance barrage combined with a Time Mage or Chronomancer to speed them up, possibly obliterating your enemy before they reach you. Heavily armored units can supplement glass cannon mages such as a the Pyre Mage, by providing them with a defense boost just by being near them. Overall, combat is swift and units will die if they aren't taken care of. What I want, is Fire Emblem but faster play when playing multiplayer (so its less like chess). This doesn't mean the skill will be gone, if anything it's been improved beyond the rock, paper, scissor style combat I started out with. For example, depending on how you "evolve" into a Spellblade (a sword wielding 4th tier caster), he may use Light/Dark Magic, or powerful Gravity Attacks, making just that one unit very dynamic. Gameplay will be an evolution through alpha and beta, with a public release being the most transforming time.

Classes

The classes do number in the 50s, but only about 12 or so are being developed now and for the first release. These are the tier 1 units, your basic melee, ranged, and magic units from which your army feeds from. I am still wondering on how to make the general "quick gameplay mode" work. I am thinking about something like you get 12 unit "credits" and these can be used to recruit and/or upgrade your army so you can play right away and if you want, evolve that army over multiple plays. For example, you can go zergling mode and get 12 Tier 1 Soldiers, or maybe upgrade to a Dragoon(Tier 2 Lancer), a Bishop (Tier 2 Healer), and a Pyre Mage (Tier 2 Pupil). That 12 vs 3 might be more evenly matched than you would think, or not at all depending on what skills you employ. Tier 1 Classes (In no particular order)

• Soldier - Sword and Shield - Balanced
• Fighter - 1Handed Axe - High Crit
• Archer - Basic Ranged Unit
• Lancer - 2 Handed Lance user - Can attack 2 spaces in all directions
• Defender - Small Sword and Huge Shield - HUGE Defensive bonus
• Monk - Fist fighter with very high HP (my favorite class, expect to see Master Monk and the healing White Monk)
• Brute - A LARGE Warrior with a LARGE Mace - Good if you like to rely on luck and brute force
• Thief - Specialty unit, can deal damage, but excels at movement and espionage
• Ronin - 2 Handed Samurai sword user, very high damage with almost no defense
  • Magic Classes Tier 1
• Pupil - Elemental Novice, uses a book
• Acolyte - Dark Magic user, uses a book
• Priest - Standard Healer, uses a book

Attached is a ss of my two soldiers after they killed two fighters. It shows the updated GUI and new grid opacity.

More to come, any feedback, tips, comments are much appreciated. Also, the website in my sig is under dev so check back soon.

Just updated my Archer, Hunter, and Ranger models.

I love your map its like totally awesome and I never was a fan of rpg's in wc3 and such

@llou: Go

These models remind me of NWN and NWN2... Are they inspired/taken from these games? :)

Quote from ZealNaga: Go

@llou: Go

These models remind me of NWN and NWN2... Are they inspired/taken from these games? :)

Nah, as far as I know Blizzard is only "ok" with use of models made by them, so they are actually WoW models that I pieced together using only WoW items and base creatures. It takes awhile, but I spent some time customizing them to look the way I wanted. While I do enjoy the NWN games, these are inspired mostly by Fire Emblem and Disgaea.

Ingredients: Blood Elf Male + Stormwind Harbour Archer NPC outfit + Chain Mail Helm/Hunter Tier Helm/Leather Hood + Bow Blood Elf Style + Quiver

This is absolutely amazing, I applaud your planning and design skills.