A few months ago I started coding a Turn Based Strategy game in Java that was to combine games such as Disgaea, Final Fantasy and Fire Emblem as well as my own take on the genre. The graphics were 2D isometric and lacking in the looks department. I've decided to switch gears and create the game using the Starcraft Galaxy Editor.
The map as it stands now consists of a "world map" area with nodes that correspond to geographic locations such as the mountains, research facilities, lakeside, etc. It is grid-based and plays exactly like FF Tactics / Disgaea. I am going to emphasize the Disgaea aspect and focus on character customization, a 9,999 level cap, and as many classes as I can fit. I originally had planned about 60-70 classes, but since switching to the GE I'm going to start out with a solid core of melee, ranged, caster (support), caster (offense), and other basic units and build from there.
I've been working on the map for a few months and with the help of such projects as Turn Based Combat Game by Hamstroman I saw the capabilities of the editor in terms of TBS games. During these few months, the game has transformed from being a sprite engine which actually used Disgaea sprites as the classes instead of the 3D SCII models, back to a 3D based isometric "zoomed out" setting. While the sprites looked awesome, I would never be able to release the game on BNet due to copyright restrictions, so I changed back to using the default 3D models provided with SCII and have continued moving further.
The GUI is entirely new and is based on pixel artwork, for example the Unit Info health bars/energy bar are influenced by the simple, yet clean looking Pokemon GUI. I spent a few weeks trying different UI's by using images found in the GE resources. I had one GUI that I made out of the diffuse model image of a traffic light, cutting up the image to create borders, boxes, and icons, but I ended up scratching it and switching to a pastel colored hand-drawn pixel UI.
Work In Progress
Ok, enough with the background. As most projects one may find, this is a WIP but it is already playable, however not exactly fun as the AI is very basic and multiplayer support isn't finished. That being said, this project will be completed at least to a beta phase within the very near future.
Limitations
Before I get to the features, I want to point out certain limitations that I one day hope to surpass.
1.) The first is variety of Classes. My initial plan was to start with at least as many class types as found in FF:Tactics Advance 2, which is about 50. What I had started to do was export WoW models to fill in the roles of non-sci-fi classes. The overall setting would be a somewhat futuristic steampunk era, where swordsmen fight next to riflemen and technology seems to fold in and out of both of Blizzard's world settings. I was met with a brick wall at various paths while trying the WoW models, but in the end found that even the new 50MB limit is easily reached without even coming near the amount of classes I needed. What I figure is that I'll finish cementing the core of the game and use the current SC II models possibly using duplicates as placeholders.
2.) UI Dialog bugs are the second problem. I have mostly overcome them, but if I really wanted to I could render certain dialog features incapable of handling input by using one of the bookend resolutions, for example. This isn't too big of a deal, more of a time consuming area needing constant code updating and hotfixes.
3.) Lastly, the upcoming multiplayer part will require some recoding of core functions followed by testing. The limitation here being the number of players that would be feasible not only for the genre but for the network limitations. Currently I am trying for 4 players.
Features
The game will feature everything found in your basic TBS so I wont go into full detail right now. What I do want to cover is my goal for this project. I would like the end result to be a game that, when played on BNet, players who join can train their armies, build armies, save/load armies, battle other players in 1v1v1v1, 2v2, 3v1 etc matches during the game. If you have played any of the NIS or FF games, Disgaea 1,2,3, Makai Kingdom, FF Tactics, Advance, Advance 2, Tactics Ogre, picture being able to play the normal campaign but have the option to play it co-op, or by yourself while being able to save your army's progress such as character levels, bonuses earned, classes unlocked, etc. The integrity of the bank system is actually a fourth limitation due to what I've seen and heard, but I hope that they create a method to make it more secure in the future, i.e. only being able to save while playing online with a verified version of the map to eliminate map-edit cheating, etc. Anyway, that's all far off as right now I will focus on releasing a solid core from which to build upon. The map will be released regularly, or irregularly depending on my schedule, but either way progress will continually be made since I have such an interest in the inner workings of this genre.
I'll post screenshots and what I have done with the map so far within the next few hours/days. Also, I'll post anything that can be used outside of this project as an asset and link it. The first one of these should be the Random "Hero" name script that I translated from Java to GE with more to continue.
Edit: Here is a very basic shot, it's only the top left of the screen showing the custom resources and some units.
Screenshot #01: Desert Oasis Test Map
Screenshot #02: Desert Oasis Test Map
Another Image, this time you can see the highlighted tiles. Red means the tile has an attackable unit on it, green means you can move there, and purple represents your starting tile for the turn. I'm still experimenting with models for the selection highlights. Right now I am using a gas canister that's semi-transparent. I also have to finish lining up the dialog text. The thing I was testing in this particular image was my unit name randomizer. Each unit you create or are given will have a unique name based on it's gender or if it's a monster type unit.
Example: Male- Mike, Female- Emily, Monster- Ziglax.
So far the script can generate over 1000 names, so it'll be pretty neat once I add the bank since it's rare you'll meet another unit with the same name. (Gotta love the little things ;p).
I don't get it, is that in Java or is it a Starcraft 2 map?
That's made with Galaxy Editor. Sorry if my introduction paragraph was a little confusing, I wrote it in a rush. I'll post a picture of the Java program and you'll notice the huge difference in graphics. The reason I even mentioned the Java program was to point out the power of the GE since I was able to port my engine over with almost 100% of the functions intact.
Note: The following are not from the SC2:GE, they are the precursor to my current SC2 Project
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3 (This is from the GUI, it's a weapon shop that I might integrate into the SC version only It'll be a unit shop)
If you notice, there are a lot of placeholder images such as the units which are copyrighted etc so working with SC2's models is awesome compared to this. Also, the GUI's are mostly custom made by me or they are heavy edits. Either way, it's all about the code which is being translated to the GE, which is approaching about 5MB worth of triggers and function calls. Thankfully that compresses like a napkin to a neat <1MB size..
In the first paragraph he explains he started making a game in Java but it lacked a bit of looks so he decided to use SC2 editor to do it instead.
And seems like a good idea to make a map like this, I don't think I've seen one yet on sc2.
There are two or three projects that I've seen on this site, and we're all around the same area in development (from what I've seen). Other than that, I don't think there ever was a Tactics based map made going all the way back to WC2Bnet, at least none that I know of, since the editors were never powerful enough. The Galaxy Editor is fantastic though they really did a great job with it. The one thing I've noticed is that of all the editors (counting WC2, WC3, SC1, and this one) the Galaxy Editor definitely had the steepest learning curve. The first few days were hellish due to the complexity compared to older editors.
I Cant Stress Enough the Need for custom units in maps like these.
I Love Rpgs as much as the next guy but if i join a RPG and there are nothing but basic SC units im immediately turned off.
I Know alot of work goes into making a solid RPG and i really think people should just take the extra step of going over to the artist tavern and asking for some custom models.
improves immersion
improves interest
Your work actually gets seen instead of being "another starcraft rpg"
I Cant Stress Enough the Need for custom units in maps like these.
I Love Rpgs as much as the next guy but if i join a RPG and there are nothing but basic SC units im immediately turned off.
I Know alot of work goes into making a solid RPG and i really think people should just take the extra step of going over to the artist tavern and asking for some custom models.
improves immersion
improves interest
Your work actually gets seen instead of being "another starcraft rpg"
It's great that you mentioned this, since I actually feel very strongly about this. I spent more time exporting WoW models, setting up animations, importing them to SC2 and setting up the helmet/weapon hosting operations than I did actually coding the engine. As I said up above, my main goal is intense character customization combined with turn based strategy, having a simple SC2:The Turn Based Strategy Version map would be dull and honestly I wouldnt have the motivation if that was the final product.
The end project, if all goes as planned, will have the maximum amount of extra artwork (gui/buttons/bars/etc) and models allowed by the editor. They're likely to be WoW models. Right now I have a version of this map where I started to create 2 races and 2 genders for each Class (ex: Human Warrior Male, Human Warrior Female, Elf Warrior Male, Elf Warrior Female, etc). That's how detailed I want my map. The problem was that I broke 50MB with just a few Classes. My plan for now is to perfect the map with the SC2 models as appropriate classes while Blizzard continues to increase the size of banks, data allowed, and who knows, maybe they'll create a more streamlined WoW -> SC2 process that doesn't end up costing 1MB+ a character.
I actually worked on a 100+ class list spreadsheet (color coded and all haha), and planned on having individual units for each one as well as dual genders. I plan to follow this worksheet (screenshot below) anyway, as it creates my own input on the genre, so it's not just a generic TBS.
For a map like this, would you enjoy it to focus more on a single player campaign that can be played online via a co-op mode along with multiple people playing different parts of their own campaign on one map OR would you enjoy a sort of deathmatch style game with multiplayer being the main focus for character growth which would be started by choosing units and training them during random battles and by fighting other people at settings you choose (like in a fighting game)?
To make it simpler, would it be more enjoyable for the units to have some meaning in terms of a story with boss encounters, secret characters, computer allies etc or would the map be played more if it was closer to a "choose 10 units, choose a location, choose some rules, and battle your opponent"?
I'll probably end up features from both of my examples, but I am wondering which I should focus on first. Any input is greatly appreciated!
@llou: Go
Quick question unrelated to the question you just posed - how are you creating your game grid and highlighting the cells in it? I'm working on a project that is similar in nature (though not a tactics style game).
I think that I would enjoy something more of a campaign, it seems all I see on Starcraft 2 customs is various types of deathmatch...so it gets old. A campaign with a story could be something quite enjoyable to play through, especially on this kind of game and with a friend or two.
It seems you're pretty serious about this project, and it's already looking pretty nice...I wish you the best of luck.
@AzothHyjal: Go
I'm going to assume you are talking about the aesthetics I employ when it comes to representing the grid and highlighting appropriate tiles and not the actual algorithms themselves (The A* algorithm is used, btw), if I am wrong, let me know.
The game grid itself is generated right before any given map is to be played. Right now it's default size is a 9x9 grid consisting of cells that take up a 2x2 space (when compared to the editor grid) on the map. Since I wanted the squares to be semi-visible, I decided on using an item that I could submerge under the ground to create a square shape without the center being filled. This shape is: ScrapCube_05.m3 which is included with SC2 and is shown in the picture below. I can also recommend the Shape's, Box and Cube however I found the box walls to be too thick. Below is a little something I just put together to show you how it looks in the editor. (I figured I'd show off my new Ent class while answering your question. ;p).
In the next picture I cut a cross-section of the grid out so that you can see underground how I arrange the units. Now I am sure it would be smarter to use a smaller custom made model that is a simple 2-D square for the grid, but I don't dabble in 3D modelling, so this will do. Those with a keen eye will notice the Ent changed seasons on us. Dastardly.
The 'highlight unit', all copies of a single prop model, that represent various highlighting on the map is the GasCube.m3 model. My search algorithm simply creates one of these units at the appropriate grid space, adds it to a unit group for monitoring, and also takes care of it's cleanup.
Anyway I hope this answers your question and I apologize for not having the map uploaded yet since looking at the source would be much easier, but in it's current state it would be hard to decipher due to my lack of comments. When I add them, I'll release it which should be soon.
Hey! Thanks for the reply. If I were to answer my own question, I probably would have said something very similar to what you mentioned. I am definitely leaning toward the campaign scenario. The campaign I have in mind would be perfect for a project like this as a deeply involved campaign just doesn't fit SC2, even when modding it. The focus would be on customizing your units, your army, and your strategies in order to complete objectives. I also plan on making each mission a unique experience rather than "go to map x and kill all units", but still keeping it simple enough where you can focus on the game mechanics and not worrying about remembering names and plot history.
What I have brainstormed so far is that I should make use of the fact that I have the ability to start off by releasing '1 mission maps' that use your saved army, with the first of these maps containing an army creation function and mini tutorial. This way I can keep the story fresh and continue to create new maps at my leisure. The alternative being working on a huge map, getting 70% done and losing interest, or no longer having free time causing the entire project to go to waste. The episodic approach should prove to allow campaign style maps to grow rather than being worked on and forgotton about. I'm sure a majority of the projects advertised on this site and others never even reach a phase at which a playable copy is released, let alone a finished product is produced. I'm guilty for more than my share of indie-game abortions, it goes with the territory.
Well I went off on a tangent there, but thanks again for replying!
Hey, this looks like it's going to be awesome and I'm definitely going to play it. One of my favorite games is Disgaea for the DS!
Any idea when the first playable map is going to be released? I can't wait!
P.S. Those WoW skins gave me an idea. You know Zeratul's blink ability in the campaign? That would look sweet for shadowstep for a rogue!
I am working to release a playable scenario. Making the WoW Models look how I want them to and move like a normal unit is taking the longest, but I am getting there. The story for the game so far will revolve around a noble who is given a regiment of soldiers after his country, Aster (a bluish color thus the blue colors for its army) is invaded. The noble will have the rank of Lord and be a somewhat stronger basic unit, which is the Soldier. The soldier wields a shield and sword however weapons technology is not limited to this, guns are also included as this is a steampunk style game. The Lord will wield a much bigger sword and no helmet so that he stands out and maintains a personality.
There will also be cutscenes depicting the story inbetween battles, but of course the combat system will come first. I've included a screenshot of the latest progress. This shows the Asterian forces (blue stormwind guard models) fighting the invading Carnelian forces (red guards). These units are character types from WoW, so the shoulders/sword/shield/helm had to be attached and I finally got them to behave appropriately. One minor bug is that the blue shoulders and helm are black-ish. Also in the screenshot below you'll see the red players are offset in the grid. This is due to a combat range bug.
The reason I mentioned anything about the story was to setup the first map release. I am thinking it will be the first Mission in which your own troops (2 to 3 level 1 soldiers) attack you (a level 3 Lord) to test your strength since you have basically been promoted because of your family. This will be a tutorial fight and include some dialog. It should also help to setup the story and really put you in the shoes of the main character.
P.S. Those WoW skins gave me an idea. You know Zeratul's blink ability in the campaign? That would look sweet for shadowstep for a rogue!
Haha, yeah that would look sick. There are so many ideas I get while setting up the models that I ended up with about 45MB of imported data. Right now the map size is 48.3MB including triggers and the rest. For the scenario map I will make a new map with just the imported models that are needed so that the size is much smaller. Your unit levels will still be saved, though, using the bank system.
I decided to lower the size of the M3 models by reducing the animations included. Now what once was 1.5MB is 500kB (pre-compression). I also added some WoW structures and I hope to combine them with the SC2 structures to make a steampunk environment. I have also started on setting up the scene for the first scenario. The scene involves the Asterian (your home country) army standing in formation outside of their castle while their commanding officers speak with the main character. The Asterian army currently includes Soldiers (1h sword + shield), Axemen (axe + shield), Captain (2H weapons), Bowmen (crossbow), Paladins (2h mace + spells), Clerics (staff + spells), Mages (staff + spells) and your hero (1h weapons, 2h weapons, and some magic).
I am thinking about adding female versions of the above. The mage is currently male, and the cleric is currently female, but the rest are male. Also I plan to add a type of unarmed combat unit (Monk), a Lance user (2H Poleaxes), and Gunner that uses firearms and is similar to the Bowman. Any suggestions for classes or opinions about the included classes would be helpful so please comment away.
This all looks amazing. I will look forward to the first Episode.
BTW that java game itself looks pretty amazing. I would be interested in trying it out just for the hell of it.
Final Fantasy Tactics ( the first one) has always held a place in my heart. The customization, the story, the in-combat scenes, the replayabiltiy, and most importanty IT HAD CLOUD!!!
The black textures on those soldiers seem to look really flat, with little to no shading. I'd offer opinions on the classes, but I won't really have credible opinions until using them or having more information about them.
Huge fan of what you're trying to do here. This was actually going to be my next project but it looks like you've got things under control. I personally would like to see this built for pvp action since it has the best replay value IMO. Not to mention competition gets people hooked and with 9,999 levels, things could get crazy. If you do have it pvp, make sure you build in a detector so if 1 player is 3x stronger than everyone else on the map and there's 4 players, they are all allied against the strong guy.
My only suggestion would be to ditch the grid visibility on the map itself, tactics style.
Since that screenshot, they lighting for all attachments has been fixed so all shoulderpads and helmets look fine. I'm sure they can look even better with certain editing but for now I am focusing on the mechanics first.
As for classes, what I have so far is about 30 or so with some classes having both genders for one class. The genders have different class trees so playing a female soldier gets you a different set of classes unlocked(all female classes) as opposed to the male soldier. There are different types of classes (magic, stealth, melee, ranged, intellect) as well as 5 tiers of classes that are unlocked similar to FFTactics. I have a few spreadsheets that contain calculations for class growth through 100 levels based on the 4 stat system which I'll share in the near future. Balancing the classes will be probably the hardest part so any help you or anyone else can give will be greatly appreciated. When I have a playable version available it will be easier to balance. I included a screenshot of a few classes, the Monk, the Rogue, and the Warlock.
The grid visibility will eventually be a setting where you can choose whether or not it shows up. For now I need it to measure player steps, aoe attacks, etc. In the end it will have a very FFTactics style look to it.
Actually, it can support it, but you'd need to be very creative to get it working.
You might have to work with galaxy code to get that kind of system working... Normal triggers and such won't make a efficient high quality system, although it may be easier for some.
A typical battlefield in turn based strategy game is usually something like a 150x150 grid, since some units can move up to 10 steps.
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Project Background
A few months ago I started coding a Turn Based Strategy game in Java that was to combine games such as Disgaea, Final Fantasy and Fire Emblem as well as my own take on the genre. The graphics were 2D isometric and lacking in the looks department. I've decided to switch gears and create the game using the Starcraft Galaxy Editor.
The map as it stands now consists of a "world map" area with nodes that correspond to geographic locations such as the mountains, research facilities, lakeside, etc. It is grid-based and plays exactly like FF Tactics / Disgaea. I am going to emphasize the Disgaea aspect and focus on character customization, a 9,999 level cap, and as many classes as I can fit. I originally had planned about 60-70 classes, but since switching to the GE I'm going to start out with a solid core of melee, ranged, caster (support), caster (offense), and other basic units and build from there.
I've been working on the map for a few months and with the help of such projects as Turn Based Combat Game by Hamstroman I saw the capabilities of the editor in terms of TBS games. During these few months, the game has transformed from being a sprite engine which actually used Disgaea sprites as the classes instead of the 3D SCII models, back to a 3D based isometric "zoomed out" setting. While the sprites looked awesome, I would never be able to release the game on BNet due to copyright restrictions, so I changed back to using the default 3D models provided with SCII and have continued moving further.
The GUI is entirely new and is based on pixel artwork, for example the Unit Info health bars/energy bar are influenced by the simple, yet clean looking Pokemon GUI. I spent a few weeks trying different UI's by using images found in the GE resources. I had one GUI that I made out of the diffuse model image of a traffic light, cutting up the image to create borders, boxes, and icons, but I ended up scratching it and switching to a pastel colored hand-drawn pixel UI.
Work In Progress
Ok, enough with the background. As most projects one may find, this is a WIP but it is already playable, however not exactly fun as the AI is very basic and multiplayer support isn't finished. That being said, this project will be completed at least to a beta phase within the very near future.
Limitations
Before I get to the features, I want to point out certain limitations that I one day hope to surpass.
Features
The game will feature everything found in your basic TBS so I wont go into full detail right now. What I do want to cover is my goal for this project. I would like the end result to be a game that, when played on BNet, players who join can train their armies, build armies, save/load armies, battle other players in 1v1v1v1, 2v2, 3v1 etc matches during the game. If you have played any of the NIS or FF games, Disgaea 1,2,3, Makai Kingdom, FF Tactics, Advance, Advance 2, Tactics Ogre, picture being able to play the normal campaign but have the option to play it co-op, or by yourself while being able to save your army's progress such as character levels, bonuses earned, classes unlocked, etc. The integrity of the bank system is actually a fourth limitation due to what I've seen and heard, but I hope that they create a method to make it more secure in the future, i.e. only being able to save while playing online with a verified version of the map to eliminate map-edit cheating, etc. Anyway, that's all far off as right now I will focus on releasing a solid core from which to build upon. The map will be released regularly, or irregularly depending on my schedule, but either way progress will continually be made since I have such an interest in the inner workings of this genre.
I'll post screenshots and what I have done with the map so far within the next few hours/days. Also, I'll post anything that can be used outside of this project as an asset and link it. The first one of these should be the Random "Hero" name script that I translated from Java to GE with more to continue.
Edit: Here is a very basic shot, it's only the top left of the screen showing the custom resources and some units.
Screenshot #01: Desert Oasis Test Map
Screenshot #02: Desert Oasis Test Map
Another Image, this time you can see the highlighted tiles. Red means the tile has an attackable unit on it, green means you can move there, and purple represents your starting tile for the turn. I'm still experimenting with models for the selection highlights. Right now I am using a gas canister that's semi-transparent. I also have to finish lining up the dialog text. The thing I was testing in this particular image was my unit name randomizer. Each unit you create or are given will have a unique name based on it's gender or if it's a monster type unit. Example: Male- Mike, Female- Emily, Monster- Ziglax.
So far the script can generate over 1000 names, so it'll be pretty neat once I add the bank since it's rare you'll meet another unit with the same name. (Gotta love the little things ;p).
-Lou
I don't get it, is that in Java or is it a Starcraft 2 map?
@vjeux: Go
should be starcraft map, that could be custom ui or changed resources icon, i'm going for custom
In the first paragraph he explains he started making a game in Java but it lacked a bit of looks so he decided to use SC2 editor to do it instead.
And seems like a good idea to make a map like this, I don't think I've seen one yet on sc2.
That's made with Galaxy Editor. Sorry if my introduction paragraph was a little confusing, I wrote it in a rush. I'll post a picture of the Java program and you'll notice the huge difference in graphics. The reason I even mentioned the Java program was to point out the power of the GE since I was able to port my engine over with almost 100% of the functions intact.
Note: The following are not from the SC2:GE, they are the precursor to my current SC2 Project
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3 (This is from the GUI, it's a weapon shop that I might integrate into the SC version only It'll be a unit shop)
If you notice, there are a lot of placeholder images such as the units which are copyrighted etc so working with SC2's models is awesome compared to this. Also, the GUI's are mostly custom made by me or they are heavy edits. Either way, it's all about the code which is being translated to the GE, which is approaching about 5MB worth of triggers and function calls. Thankfully that compresses like a napkin to a neat <1MB size..
There are two or three projects that I've seen on this site, and we're all around the same area in development (from what I've seen). Other than that, I don't think there ever was a Tactics based map made going all the way back to WC2Bnet, at least none that I know of, since the editors were never powerful enough. The Galaxy Editor is fantastic though they really did a great job with it. The one thing I've noticed is that of all the editors (counting WC2, WC3, SC1, and this one) the Galaxy Editor definitely had the steepest learning curve. The first few days were hellish due to the complexity compared to older editors.
@llou: Go
I Cant Stress Enough the Need for custom units in maps like these.
I Love Rpgs as much as the next guy but if i join a RPG and there are nothing but basic SC units im immediately turned off.
I Know alot of work goes into making a solid RPG and i really think people should just take the extra step of going over to the artist tavern and asking for some custom models.
improves immersion
improves interest
Your work actually gets seen instead of being "another starcraft rpg"
It's great that you mentioned this, since I actually feel very strongly about this. I spent more time exporting WoW models, setting up animations, importing them to SC2 and setting up the helmet/weapon hosting operations than I did actually coding the engine. As I said up above, my main goal is intense character customization combined with turn based strategy, having a simple SC2:The Turn Based Strategy Version map would be dull and honestly I wouldnt have the motivation if that was the final product. The end project, if all goes as planned, will have the maximum amount of extra artwork (gui/buttons/bars/etc) and models allowed by the editor. They're likely to be WoW models. Right now I have a version of this map where I started to create 2 races and 2 genders for each Class (ex: Human Warrior Male, Human Warrior Female, Elf Warrior Male, Elf Warrior Female, etc). That's how detailed I want my map. The problem was that I broke 50MB with just a few Classes. My plan for now is to perfect the map with the SC2 models as appropriate classes while Blizzard continues to increase the size of banks, data allowed, and who knows, maybe they'll create a more streamlined WoW -> SC2 process that doesn't end up costing 1MB+ a character.
I actually worked on a 100+ class list spreadsheet (color coded and all haha), and planned on having individual units for each one as well as dual genders. I plan to follow this worksheet (screenshot below) anyway, as it creates my own input on the genre, so it's not just a generic TBS.
I have a question for anyone reading this:
For a map like this, would you enjoy it to focus more on a single player campaign that can be played online via a co-op mode along with multiple people playing different parts of their own campaign on one map OR would you enjoy a sort of deathmatch style game with multiplayer being the main focus for character growth which would be started by choosing units and training them during random battles and by fighting other people at settings you choose (like in a fighting game)?
To make it simpler, would it be more enjoyable for the units to have some meaning in terms of a story with boss encounters, secret characters, computer allies etc or would the map be played more if it was closer to a "choose 10 units, choose a location, choose some rules, and battle your opponent"?
I'll probably end up features from both of my examples, but I am wondering which I should focus on first. Any input is greatly appreciated!
@llou: Go Quick question unrelated to the question you just posed - how are you creating your game grid and highlighting the cells in it? I'm working on a project that is similar in nature (though not a tactics style game).
I think that I would enjoy something more of a campaign, it seems all I see on Starcraft 2 customs is various types of deathmatch...so it gets old. A campaign with a story could be something quite enjoyable to play through, especially on this kind of game and with a friend or two.
It seems you're pretty serious about this project, and it's already looking pretty nice...I wish you the best of luck.
@AzothHyjal: Go I'm going to assume you are talking about the aesthetics I employ when it comes to representing the grid and highlighting appropriate tiles and not the actual algorithms themselves (The A* algorithm is used, btw), if I am wrong, let me know.
The game grid itself is generated right before any given map is to be played. Right now it's default size is a 9x9 grid consisting of cells that take up a 2x2 space (when compared to the editor grid) on the map. Since I wanted the squares to be semi-visible, I decided on using an item that I could submerge under the ground to create a square shape without the center being filled. This shape is: ScrapCube_05.m3 which is included with SC2 and is shown in the picture below. I can also recommend the Shape's, Box and Cube however I found the box walls to be too thick. Below is a little something I just put together to show you how it looks in the editor. (I figured I'd show off my new Ent class while answering your question. ;p).
In the next picture I cut a cross-section of the grid out so that you can see underground how I arrange the units. Now I am sure it would be smarter to use a smaller custom made model that is a simple 2-D square for the grid, but I don't dabble in 3D modelling, so this will do. Those with a keen eye will notice the Ent changed seasons on us. Dastardly.
The 'highlight unit', all copies of a single prop model, that represent various highlighting on the map is the GasCube.m3 model. My search algorithm simply creates one of these units at the appropriate grid space, adds it to a unit group for monitoring, and also takes care of it's cleanup.
Anyway I hope this answers your question and I apologize for not having the map uploaded yet since looking at the source would be much easier, but in it's current state it would be hard to decipher due to my lack of comments. When I add them, I'll release it which should be soon.
@Sephiex: Go
Hey! Thanks for the reply. If I were to answer my own question, I probably would have said something very similar to what you mentioned. I am definitely leaning toward the campaign scenario. The campaign I have in mind would be perfect for a project like this as a deeply involved campaign just doesn't fit SC2, even when modding it. The focus would be on customizing your units, your army, and your strategies in order to complete objectives. I also plan on making each mission a unique experience rather than "go to map x and kill all units", but still keeping it simple enough where you can focus on the game mechanics and not worrying about remembering names and plot history.
What I have brainstormed so far is that I should make use of the fact that I have the ability to start off by releasing '1 mission maps' that use your saved army, with the first of these maps containing an army creation function and mini tutorial. This way I can keep the story fresh and continue to create new maps at my leisure. The alternative being working on a huge map, getting 70% done and losing interest, or no longer having free time causing the entire project to go to waste. The episodic approach should prove to allow campaign style maps to grow rather than being worked on and forgotton about. I'm sure a majority of the projects advertised on this site and others never even reach a phase at which a playable copy is released, let alone a finished product is produced. I'm guilty for more than my share of indie-game abortions, it goes with the territory.
Well I went off on a tangent there, but thanks again for replying!
@llou: Go
Hey, this looks like it's going to be awesome and I'm definitely going to play it. One of my favorite games is Disgaea for the DS! Any idea when the first playable map is going to be released? I can't wait!
P.S. Those WoW skins gave me an idea. You know Zeratul's blink ability in the campaign? That would look sweet for shadowstep for a rogue!
@stingrey55: Go
I am working to release a playable scenario. Making the WoW Models look how I want them to and move like a normal unit is taking the longest, but I am getting there. The story for the game so far will revolve around a noble who is given a regiment of soldiers after his country, Aster (a bluish color thus the blue colors for its army) is invaded. The noble will have the rank of Lord and be a somewhat stronger basic unit, which is the Soldier. The soldier wields a shield and sword however weapons technology is not limited to this, guns are also included as this is a steampunk style game. The Lord will wield a much bigger sword and no helmet so that he stands out and maintains a personality.
There will also be cutscenes depicting the story inbetween battles, but of course the combat system will come first. I've included a screenshot of the latest progress. This shows the Asterian forces (blue stormwind guard models) fighting the invading Carnelian forces (red guards). These units are character types from WoW, so the shoulders/sword/shield/helm had to be attached and I finally got them to behave appropriately. One minor bug is that the blue shoulders and helm are black-ish. Also in the screenshot below you'll see the red players are offset in the grid. This is due to a combat range bug.
The reason I mentioned anything about the story was to setup the first map release. I am thinking it will be the first Mission in which your own troops (2 to 3 level 1 soldiers) attack you (a level 3 Lord) to test your strength since you have basically been promoted because of your family. This will be a tutorial fight and include some dialog. It should also help to setup the story and really put you in the shoes of the main character.
P.S. Those WoW skins gave me an idea. You know Zeratul's blink ability in the campaign? That would look sweet for shadowstep for a rogue!
Haha, yeah that would look sick. There are so many ideas I get while setting up the models that I ended up with about 45MB of imported data. Right now the map size is 48.3MB including triggers and the rest. For the scenario map I will make a new map with just the imported models that are needed so that the size is much smaller. Your unit levels will still be saved, though, using the bank system.
New Updates
I decided to lower the size of the M3 models by reducing the animations included. Now what once was 1.5MB is 500kB (pre-compression). I also added some WoW structures and I hope to combine them with the SC2 structures to make a steampunk environment. I have also started on setting up the scene for the first scenario. The scene involves the Asterian (your home country) army standing in formation outside of their castle while their commanding officers speak with the main character. The Asterian army currently includes Soldiers (1h sword + shield), Axemen (axe + shield), Captain (2H weapons), Bowmen (crossbow), Paladins (2h mace + spells), Clerics (staff + spells), Mages (staff + spells) and your hero (1h weapons, 2h weapons, and some magic).
I am thinking about adding female versions of the above. The mage is currently male, and the cleric is currently female, but the rest are male. Also I plan to add a type of unarmed combat unit (Monk), a Lance user (2H Poleaxes), and Gunner that uses firearms and is similar to the Bowman. Any suggestions for classes or opinions about the included classes would be helpful so please comment away.
@llou: Go
This all looks amazing. I will look forward to the first Episode.
BTW that java game itself looks pretty amazing. I would be interested in trying it out just for the hell of it. Final Fantasy Tactics ( the first one) has always held a place in my heart. The customization, the story, the in-combat scenes, the replayabiltiy, and most importanty IT HAD CLOUD!!!
The black textures on those soldiers seem to look really flat, with little to no shading. I'd offer opinions on the classes, but I won't really have credible opinions until using them or having more information about them.
Huge fan of what you're trying to do here. This was actually going to be my next project but it looks like you've got things under control. I personally would like to see this built for pvp action since it has the best replay value IMO. Not to mention competition gets people hooked and with 9,999 levels, things could get crazy. If you do have it pvp, make sure you build in a detector so if 1 player is 3x stronger than everyone else on the map and there's 4 players, they are all allied against the strong guy.
My only suggestion would be to ditch the grid visibility on the map itself, tactics style.
PS Shining Force ftw
@Sephiex: Go
Since that screenshot, they lighting for all attachments has been fixed so all shoulderpads and helmets look fine. I'm sure they can look even better with certain editing but for now I am focusing on the mechanics first.
As for classes, what I have so far is about 30 or so with some classes having both genders for one class. The genders have different class trees so playing a female soldier gets you a different set of classes unlocked(all female classes) as opposed to the male soldier. There are different types of classes (magic, stealth, melee, ranged, intellect) as well as 5 tiers of classes that are unlocked similar to FFTactics. I have a few spreadsheets that contain calculations for class growth through 100 levels based on the 4 stat system which I'll share in the near future. Balancing the classes will be probably the hardest part so any help you or anyone else can give will be greatly appreciated. When I have a playable version available it will be easier to balance. I included a screenshot of a few classes, the Monk, the Rogue, and the Warlock.
@Creation25: Go
The grid visibility will eventually be a setting where you can choose whether or not it shows up. For now I need it to measure player steps, aoe attacks, etc. In the end it will have a very FFTactics style look to it.
@llou: Go
Looks cool =) Its a bit sad that Starcraft 2 does not support Isometric view.. would really give this game the classic RPG look.
Actually, it can support it, but you'd need to be very creative to get it working. You might have to work with galaxy code to get that kind of system working... Normal triggers and such won't make a efficient high quality system, although it may be easier for some.
A typical battlefield in turn based strategy game is usually something like a 150x150 grid, since some units can move up to 10 steps.