This has me pretty excited. I thought about making a Netstorm remake in SC2 a few months ago but never got the drive to do it. I hope this works out well and I'll definitely be following this project and playing it if it goes well.
One thing I noticed was that you can arbitrarily build platforms for units, I assume as a workaround to a building placement issue. With platforms you could theoretically simply build platforms instead of bridges taking out the necessity for bridging entirely. Do you plan on refining the bridge and unit placing system to be identical to Netstorm's or are there technical issues that would make that impossible?
Specifically:
Units can only be built on open bridge ends.
Destroying a unit causes an explosion that damages adjacent bridges.
Damaged bridges cannot be built from, but fall down after a short time. Stops a player from immediately replacing / rebridging destroyed areas.
Units need to be placed within range of the proper number of aligned generators, with a path connecting them. This seems like it's done and awesome looking.
Some units like thunder cannons and acid barricades allow you to rotate them to be placed facing a fixed direction, another UI issue to figure out.
@Cirno: Go
Platforms cost a lot so people wont be spamming them as I did. I can reproduce the same system as in netstorm but I'm gona try this out since it gives more strategical aspects to the game. The bridge destruction events will also be added except for the decay overtime since that can cause traffic issues.
I already made the thunder cannon (and sun cannon, crossbow,etc) with the change that you can turn them in different direction every 30 seconds. I like this method and as long as the new patch doesnt ruin my whole map entirely I'm gona stick with it.
This is where encryption comes into play. Every game tries to have some sort of encryption to prevent obvious hacks. Just develop, or have someone develop (it's rather easy to find someone who knows his stuff) an encrypted save and load system for the map. Even WarCraft III RPGs had generated strings for saving and loading of characters, and to hack it, you had to tweak the system, rather than tweak the code.
You can try processing a simple checksum along with the data, that will stop most of the attempts to hack the stats. With a checksum, the data doesn't even have to be encoded at all, because the checksum can do whatever, add bytes, flip values, reverse everything, etc. It will take some time for anybody to figure it out.
If you also port this into a mod, you can then link the mod to multiple maps. This is truly a great project to be working on compared to most of the other things that cannot be extended. I mean, what other map can already be envisioned as a mod and be linked to other maps? Nothing.
Unfortunately encryption is futile since the maps aren't protected themselves, anyone can just open them up and see the functions or use mpq editor. And even if the maps were properly protected (which wont happen in a while) it is impossible to gain unique data about players (no, you can't get player names because you can't convert text to string), so they could just upload a high level "account" somewhere and anyone could use it.
Also Mods don't support triggers, which are necessary for 99% of the custom maps but yeah, people can easily make their map variations once it's released.
@depthsofchaos: Go
You can "lock" a map. I've never actually tested what a locked map is, but it might encode the trigger file or even the entire .mpq. Also, I think you can convert text to a string.
I think Iggyhopper has a point, Even if the map can be opened, saved Data such as Warcraft 3's saving of characters was pretty secure, you had to hack the system hack the files, and that's too much effort, for lowly cheaters.
You can do that, and provide non-level upgradable pre-generated characters with knowledge in a limited ammount of units. That can also discourage cheating, but it will also give n00bs a chance to get the hang of things, and get interested, but don't give the pre-generated characters too much, give them insentives to try to level up their own character from the bottom.
Part of Netstorm was making the most of the technology you are given/earned, or are able to fit using your workshops against the enemies knowledge which may also be different or the same, or even bigger and nastier.
It's 0 effort to run the decrypt function that's right in the map, it's enough if one person does it then just uploads it. Not to mention locking didn't work properly in phase 1, couldn't try it in phase 2 yet.
As I said it's not possible to convert Text to string since text is dependent on the locale you are using, so this defeats the whole system single handedly. If you say it's possible then back it up please.
Restricting technology based on your experience is bad, I don't see how any noob can have a chance against someone with full tech tree. The game isn't supposed to get easier gradually, exactly the opposite.
An experianced player will always have the advantage, technology or not. In Netstorm N00bs were often stomped not by having a bigger tech tree, but something more annoying and difficult to counter, Being surrounded by bridges. That way level 3's pros often beat level 43 n00bs.
There were several factors that played big parts in allowing lower level players to compete with higher level players.
One was cost, another was the level of generators and sacrifices needed for gaining units
But the changed default settings in those community patches actually made it harder to be a lower level player, or they took away a lot of the drawbacks of using aligned units, more resources per geyser meant you could more liberally spend money on the more expensive units, more generator range meant you could use more aligned combat units further away from your generators, effectively taking away the advantage sun units had making it all about Crossbows, barricades, and thunder cannons.
Bump, some progress update screenshots added, if everything goes well i can release the map right on the game release, tho some things will be missing it will be playable and fun.
I plan to do that however I first want to reach a version which doesn't need much updating, that can take some time depending how popular my map gets (how much it gets tested). Right now I didn't get the chance yet to look at a public game.
Another bump, since my map is on the 100th page on the EU b.net I'm looking for a US user to upload it for me. One requirement tho is that you have to have more than 10 posts or content contributed to mapster. Pm me if you could do this for me.
Hot damn, this is amazing. I didn't know people still cared about Netstorm. I've got it sitting on the shelf right behind me. Mad props to you for this project and I can't wait to try it out on US.
This has me pretty excited. I thought about making a Netstorm remake in SC2 a few months ago but never got the drive to do it. I hope this works out well and I'll definitely be following this project and playing it if it goes well.
One thing I noticed was that you can arbitrarily build platforms for units, I assume as a workaround to a building placement issue. With platforms you could theoretically simply build platforms instead of bridges taking out the necessity for bridging entirely. Do you plan on refining the bridge and unit placing system to be identical to Netstorm's or are there technical issues that would make that impossible?
Specifically:
Some units like thunder cannons and acid barricades allow you to rotate them to be placed facing a fixed direction, another UI issue to figure out.
@Cirno: Go Platforms cost a lot so people wont be spamming them as I did. I can reproduce the same system as in netstorm but I'm gona try this out since it gives more strategical aspects to the game. The bridge destruction events will also be added except for the decay overtime since that can cause traffic issues. I already made the thunder cannon (and sun cannon, crossbow,etc) with the change that you can turn them in different direction every 30 seconds. I like this method and as long as the new patch doesnt ruin my whole map entirely I'm gona stick with it.
@depthofchaos:
This is where encryption comes into play. Every game tries to have some sort of encryption to prevent obvious hacks. Just develop, or have someone develop (it's rather easy to find someone who knows his stuff) an encrypted save and load system for the map. Even WarCraft III RPGs had generated strings for saving and loading of characters, and to hack it, you had to tweak the system, rather than tweak the code.
You can try processing a simple checksum along with the data, that will stop most of the attempts to hack the stats. With a checksum, the data doesn't even have to be encoded at all, because the checksum can do whatever, add bytes, flip values, reverse everything, etc. It will take some time for anybody to figure it out.
If you also port this into a mod, you can then link the mod to multiple maps. This is truly a great project to be working on compared to most of the other things that cannot be extended. I mean, what other map can already be envisioned as a mod and be linked to other maps? Nothing.
@Iggyhopper: Go
Unfortunately encryption is futile since the maps aren't protected themselves, anyone can just open them up and see the functions or use mpq editor. And even if the maps were properly protected (which wont happen in a while) it is impossible to gain unique data about players (no, you can't get player names because you can't convert text to string), so they could just upload a high level "account" somewhere and anyone could use it.
Also Mods don't support triggers, which are necessary for 99% of the custom maps but yeah, people can easily make their map variations once it's released.
@depthsofchaos: Go You can "lock" a map. I've never actually tested what a locked map is, but it might encode the trigger file or even the entire .mpq. Also, I think you can convert text to a string.
@Iggyhopper: Go
What the OP was saying is that locking the map is useless because it doesn't prevent others to open it if they take manage to get the files.
I think Iggyhopper has a point, Even if the map can be opened, saved Data such as Warcraft 3's saving of characters was pretty secure, you had to hack the system hack the files, and that's too much effort, for lowly cheaters.
You can do that, and provide non-level upgradable pre-generated characters with knowledge in a limited ammount of units. That can also discourage cheating, but it will also give n00bs a chance to get the hang of things, and get interested, but don't give the pre-generated characters too much, give them insentives to try to level up their own character from the bottom. Part of Netstorm was making the most of the technology you are given/earned, or are able to fit using your workshops against the enemies knowledge which may also be different or the same, or even bigger and nastier.
It's 0 effort to run the decrypt function that's right in the map, it's enough if one person does it then just uploads it. Not to mention locking didn't work properly in phase 1, couldn't try it in phase 2 yet. As I said it's not possible to convert Text to string since text is dependent on the locale you are using, so this defeats the whole system single handedly. If you say it's possible then back it up please. Restricting technology based on your experience is bad, I don't see how any noob can have a chance against someone with full tech tree. The game isn't supposed to get easier gradually, exactly the opposite.
An experianced player will always have the advantage, technology or not. In Netstorm N00bs were often stomped not by having a bigger tech tree, but something more annoying and difficult to counter, Being surrounded by bridges. That way level 3's pros often beat level 43 n00bs.
There were several factors that played big parts in allowing lower level players to compete with higher level players.
One was cost, another was the level of generators and sacrifices needed for gaining units
But the changed default settings in those community patches actually made it harder to be a lower level player, or they took away a lot of the drawbacks of using aligned units, more resources per geyser meant you could more liberally spend money on the more expensive units, more generator range meant you could use more aligned combat units further away from your generators, effectively taking away the advantage sun units had making it all about Crossbows, barricades, and thunder cannons.
Bump, some progress update screenshots added, if everything goes well i can release the map right on the game release, tho some things will be missing it will be playable and fun.
Bump, uploaded an early version to Battle.net EU, please try it out with friends and give feedback.
Any chance of localized version for us not on EU ?
Thanks!
@ZenoFrozen: Go
I plan to do that however I first want to reach a version which doesn't need much updating, that can take some time depending how popular my map gets (how much it gets tested). Right now I didn't get the chance yet to look at a public game.
Another bump, since my map is on the 100th page on the EU b.net I'm looking for a US user to upload it for me. One requirement tho is that you have to have more than 10 posts or content contributed to mapster. Pm me if you could do this for me.
Thanks in advance.
Hot damn, this is amazing. I didn't know people still cared about Netstorm. I've got it sitting on the shelf right behind me. Mad props to you for this project and I can't wait to try it out on US.
@Tsurupettan:
There's a US version now thanks to deathnight so hopefully it will be popular enough to play it a few times.
@depthsofchaos: Go
woah! Really love it.
i was just curious to know if this map was finished/playable. i havent heard of netstorm in years.