Hey guys, so after messing with my primary rpg map and seeing no end of it i decided to make something simple that i can actually finish. So i came up with idea of tiny simple hero defence for 3 players with cool AI, 3 bosses and probably 15 waves. So the custom systems are pretty simple, map has:
1) wc3 armor system
2) % of cooldown reduction
3) critical chance, critical multiplier(+% of critical damage)
4) Special hit chance (this attack is special for each type of mage, for example Fire Mage has a chance to burn, Earth Mage - chance to stun, Ice Mage - chance to freeze enemy, Storm Mage - chance to shock opponent)
5) +% of heal effectiveness.
Each of this attributes can be improved with magic items which drop from mobs.
All spell damage in my map is trigger-based, and equals to certain ammount of your DPS (even damage of your summons)
What i made already?
So i started this one almost from scratch 10 days ago, and made 4 heroes with 5 abilities each, custom systems and also sketched few boss abilities
And Ai behaviours, other things are planned but not implemented yet :<. Also there are 5th and 6th heroes planned - Necromancer and Arcane Mage.
So i decided to create this thread mainly cuz i have no experience in sc1/wc3/any mapping (finished maps) and just want to hear your suggestions for optimal map layout (towers yes/no, number of lanes, etc.) Basically any suggestions are welcomed, just type anything below :>. The primary idea is to create something similiar to Moo Moo defence from wc3 with cool bosses and appealing visuals.
Also made boring yet short demo of some abilities (i dont know why vid lost so much quality after uploading so better watch in hd):
From starcraft 2. I just studied the available resources. My primary goal was to make everything with 0 import, but then i decided that i will use some icons from wow for items only.
I'm making necromancer now and then will work on enemies and probably will upload video. Just having little break now cuz of life situations.
Oh man Necromancer? I can't wait. The spells looks amazing, and the sounds sound imported? The spells remind me of a wc3 style, and I love them :D. Waiting for a good hero siege since forever.
Most hero sieges is just 1 base and mobs come to the base bunched up. Item shop behind the base and upgrades to the home base on the building. I have some cool ideas I thought of, will probably post them later though, unless you want to add me on Skype : Necromoni.
So far, the abilities look Hella fun, in fact, I'd almost say more satisfying than diablo 3 abilities. Very impressive.
Though I'm not an expert in this area of mapping (hero defense), I can tell you what I think I'd enjoy most. For the number of lanes, I think having 1 wide lane the spreads out like a cone the further you go out would work pretty well. Perhaps there could be benefits for the further you go out, maybe a score bonus if they don't get within x distance from the main building. The reasoning behind that is I'd like to be able to go out on my own and kill stuff by myself and then switch it up and join a friend and kill some things. If you have a better idea how to do that, that'd be great.
I don't know if it's a valid suggestion, but I think it'd be cool to occasionally get powerups off of enemies to spice up combat a little since you are limited to the 5 abilities for the entire length of the game.
I don't think I can really make any other suggestions because, as I said, I have little experience with hero defense maps. I wish you lots of luck with this project, it looks amazing and I can't wait to try it.
I want your Data Editing Skills, those ability's are visually sexy, unique, and impressive very good. I hope to learn how to make ability's that Professional looking.
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Hey guys, your feedback is something i've been waiting for to keep myself motivated. Very inspiring, thanks! I'll put my dirty hands on this once i'll deal with something out of sc2. Probably will finish necro and show some boss abil sketches after weekends.
That actualy almost 83.325% trigger work not data. I like to use triggers for actor cuz it's 10x time easier and you can reuse lot's of gui code for anything else which looks similiar. Also, trigger keep your ability more organized and i can see the connections between actors, how they work together and just tracking things MUCH easier.
hey, just a small update as promised. Bad news: didn't finish necro cuz 4 initially good spell ideas turn out visualy cheap crap. Also had 6 free hours in total this week :<. Anyway just wanna show some ideas i was experimenting with and probably need some suggestions for 4 and 5 possible necro skill.
Also made a target position prediction function for AI, it's not some cheap trick with polar offset point with predetermined speed values, it's actually work with any values of target movement speed and caster's missile speed, the only way to avoid AI's skillshot is to change moving direction after missile is fired.
Cone shaped hmm, i was thinking of this for awhile but from my perspective any cone implies bottleneck anywhere. So players will just spamm this with abilities and it will be too easy. Need more suggestions for map layout.
damn, used youtube editor and now video running like 20 fps wtf. Got it on computer works fine...
A bit of a shame that nobody's replied to this thread again, yet. This project so far, visually, is very impressive.
Now that you mentioned that the corridor idea wouldn't work, I suggest doing an arena style map in that case. I propose the image below. The idea is that enemies spawn and come in from the red arrows. Enemies may reach the main base (yellow circle) by going through wide choke points at the cyan arrows. Only players may move between the blue double arrow areas that allow them to travel quickly between lanes. The concept is that enemies will spawn from the 2 larger areas normally and special enemies, waves, or events will spawn and come in at the central lane. The reason I think this is a good idea is it allows, again, for players to split up or join together, but if you want to join up together, it's going to be very risky since the only way to do it is to defend at the choke points that are SOO close to the main base. Plus you have to sometimes also deal with dangers from the main ramp, like bosses.
Hope I'm not too late to brainstorm, but I came up with a list of detailed ideas for some necromancy spells...
Splitting Plague: You launch a poisonous projectile at the target direction; if it hits an enemy, the projectile splits into additional projectiles that "seek" out nearby enemies but don't change direction mid-flight. These projectiles will not split on impact. All enemies that are effected take damage over time until the duration is over.
Plague Scythe: Throw a spinning dark blade towards the target direction; if it hits an enemy, it attaches to the enemy and does damage to the enemy it's attached to and also to nearby enemies nearby. If the enemy dies, the scythe seeks out another enemy. The scythe lasts for a total duration of x amount of time, not depending on how many enemies it attached to.
Poison Skull: Shoot a skull in the target direction, leaving a poison trail behind it that does damage to enemies that pass through it and does damage over time even if the enemy isn't in the poison area. The skull explodes if it hits an enemy, doing high burst damage. This adds strategy since you can either burst damage a tough enemy or purposefully miss enemies to effect the maximum area possible.
Bone Tower: Create a tower of bones at the target location. Enemies collide with the tower. The tower springs up spikes near it frequently, dealing damage to enemies hit.
Explosive Shade: Summon a dark being that randomly roams around for a short duration, smashing enemies and creating explosions.
Orb of Life Force: Toss an orb of darkness at the target location. The orb frequently sucks up the life force of nearby enemies (works better with less enemies since it's more likely to kill an enemy if there's only a few to absorb life force from). So, effectively, it sucks up life force faster the less enemies there are. Once it's duration is over, it sends all the life force to the caster.
Chaos Field: Drop a chaotic disk at the target location. All enemies that are effected recieve a chaotic effect. There's lots of things you could do, they could run around in circles and if they touch a non-chaotic effected enemy, it could spread it to them and all enemies that are effected take damage over time. Maybe it makes enemies attack each other. Maybe the circle stays there and it does damage over time and enemies that die become undead for awhile, who knows, up to you.
Black Hole: This might be a bit of a challenge to make, but so far I don't think there's much you can't do within the limits of the engine when it comes to aesthetics. The idea is it doesn't need to suck enemies towards it, but if enemies step on the black hole, they get sucked inside and they take damage over time until the duration is over. If any enemies survive, the black hole explodes and launches enemies in random directions, dealing additional bonus damage.
These detailed descriptions don't leave much to the imagination, but if you need the creative freedom to make whatever you want the way you want it, at least take these as inspiration. Really excited about this project and I hope you finish it.
Just wanted to drop by again to say that I like this project more and more as new content is completed. Your visual work confirms just how much paying attention to the little details pay off. Very inspiring. :)
I will sketch some of this abilities and watch if they turn out nicely i still need 2 abils for necro. Will definitely try to make Bone Tower and Black hole for start.
Basicaly production of content slowed down significantly cuz lots of assets working pretty badly and i throwing out lot's of stuff immediately after making it cuz it didn't pass my own quality assurance test :D. Just lack of effect content in general :<.
I will be testing map layouts after making at least enemies for 4 zerg waves and 5 - zerg boss later.
this is done by some tricky workaround: I'm creating mover within the scope of each pillar and positioning it right beneath the column. Before that i changing host of column's actor and using some site operation to customize floating in air:
Rocker, Rotator, ExplicitRotation and SOpForwardVector with ::HostForward set to this mover. After that i can just control the movers and columns will rotate towards it.
After column's landing I'm saving position of this mover to dummy invisible actor, so when column will be lifted again it will save it's rotation. Basically i made this with triggers but actualy i realize now that this can be done via data also.
I also must find some balance between complex and simple abilities cuz such abils like Impale, Ring of Frost and Frozen orb will make map unplayable on slow computers.
I have GTX760 and GTS250 machines on GTS250 more than 5 impales drops framerate by half :<>
I've started to remake everything with data =<. My trigger abilities lag like hell when fired from 3 mages simultaneously. I tested few of them with data and it works better (rly dont know why >:( ). Maybe persistants works better than wait triggers :<. I'm also testing possibility of making just literaly everything with data. Also remaking some of them for deeper and better gameplay mechanics and trying to make them look more sexier. As usual i producing tons of test stuff just to make sure that it is complete garbage :>.
And yeah if you watched news we have quite a situation here with R*ssian occupies and i have some troubles with my job, so probably no update in nearest future.
No man sorry, this is holding on pause for a month now, too busy. Have a time only for simple testing/site roaming but not for working 3-5 hours a day on this.I just reworked some of my spells in data and changed/simplified some of them for better performance, but overall i'm rly lack of time lately. Data is much more time consuming than triggers :<. Also i stumped with lack of assets for what i want to create. Basicaly this sphere things and few ugly beams is all that we've got in sc2 >:(. Anyway i used that for Eye of the Storm spell, you can see it and few other updated abils in this video. Probably not worth the uploading but... whatever. Hopefully I'll deal with all of my business and then will dive back in map editing.
Hey guys, so after messing with my primary rpg map and seeing no end of it i decided to make something simple that i can actually finish. So i came up with idea of tiny simple hero defence for 3 players with cool AI, 3 bosses and probably 15 waves. So the custom systems are pretty simple, map has:
1) wc3 armor system
2) % of cooldown reduction
3) critical chance, critical multiplier(+% of critical damage)
4) Special hit chance (this attack is special for each type of mage, for example Fire Mage has a chance to burn, Earth Mage - chance to stun, Ice Mage - chance to freeze enemy, Storm Mage - chance to shock opponent)
5) +% of heal effectiveness.
Each of this attributes can be improved with magic items which drop from mobs.
All spell damage in my map is trigger-based, and equals to certain ammount of your DPS (even damage of your summons)
What i made already? So i started this one almost from scratch 10 days ago, and made 4 heroes with 5 abilities each, custom systems and also sketched few boss abilities And Ai behaviours, other things are planned but not implemented yet :<. Also there are 5th and 6th heroes planned - Necromancer and Arcane Mage.
So i decided to create this thread mainly cuz i have no experience in sc1/wc3/any mapping (finished maps) and just want to hear your suggestions for optimal map layout (towers yes/no, number of lanes, etc.) Basically any suggestions are welcomed, just type anything below :>. The primary idea is to create something similiar to Moo Moo defence from wc3 with cool bosses and appealing visuals.
Also made boring yet short demo of some abilities (i dont know why vid lost so much quality after uploading so better watch in hd):
Your aesthetic data work is really great. I love what you did with the last ice ability.
Тшсу дщщлштп фишдшешуы!
Spells look very cool.
Btw, where did you get sounds?
@Zolden: Go
From starcraft 2. I just studied the available resources. My primary goal was to make everything with 0 import, but then i decided that i will use some icons from wow for items only.
I'm making necromancer now and then will work on enemies and probably will upload video. Just having little break now cuz of life situations.
Oh man Necromancer? I can't wait. The spells looks amazing, and the sounds sound imported? The spells remind me of a wc3 style, and I love them :D. Waiting for a good hero siege since forever.
Most hero sieges is just 1 base and mobs come to the base bunched up. Item shop behind the base and upgrades to the home base on the building. I have some cool ideas I thought of, will probably post them later though, unless you want to add me on Skype : Necromoni.
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Curse PremiumSo far, the abilities look Hella fun, in fact, I'd almost say more satisfying than diablo 3 abilities. Very impressive.
Though I'm not an expert in this area of mapping (hero defense), I can tell you what I think I'd enjoy most. For the number of lanes, I think having 1 wide lane the spreads out like a cone the further you go out would work pretty well. Perhaps there could be benefits for the further you go out, maybe a score bonus if they don't get within x distance from the main building. The reasoning behind that is I'd like to be able to go out on my own and kill stuff by myself and then switch it up and join a friend and kill some things. If you have a better idea how to do that, that'd be great.
I don't know if it's a valid suggestion, but I think it'd be cool to occasionally get powerups off of enemies to spice up combat a little since you are limited to the 5 abilities for the entire length of the game.
I don't think I can really make any other suggestions because, as I said, I have little experience with hero defense maps. I wish you lots of luck with this project, it looks amazing and I can't wait to try it.
@yukaboy: Go
Wow I actually really like that cone shaped lane idea. I think if it's done right it would be really cool and unique.
@abvdzh: Go
I want your Data Editing Skills, those ability's are visually sexy, unique, and impressive very good. I hope to learn how to make ability's that Professional looking.
Hey guys, your feedback is something i've been waiting for to keep myself motivated. Very inspiring, thanks! I'll put my dirty hands on this once i'll deal with something out of sc2. Probably will finish necro and show some boss abil sketches after weekends.
@DaFunk86: Go
That actualy almost 83.325% trigger work not data. I like to use triggers for actor cuz it's 10x time easier and you can reuse lot's of gui code for anything else which looks similiar. Also, trigger keep your ability more organized and i can see the connections between actors, how they work together and just tracking things MUCH easier.
hey, just a small update as promised. Bad news: didn't finish necro cuz 4 initially good spell ideas turn out visualy cheap crap. Also had 6 free hours in total this week :<. Anyway just wanna show some ideas i was experimenting with and probably need some suggestions for 4 and 5 possible necro skill.
Also made a target position prediction function for AI, it's not some cheap trick with polar offset point with predetermined speed values, it's actually work with any values of target movement speed and caster's missile speed, the only way to avoid AI's skillshot is to change moving direction after missile is fired.
Also some random stuff in this video.
@yukaboy: Go
Cone shaped hmm, i was thinking of this for awhile but from my perspective any cone implies bottleneck anywhere. So players will just spamm this with abilities and it will be too easy. Need more suggestions for map layout.
damn, used youtube editor and now video running like 20 fps wtf. Got it on computer works fine...
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Curse PremiumA bit of a shame that nobody's replied to this thread again, yet. This project so far, visually, is very impressive.
Now that you mentioned that the corridor idea wouldn't work, I suggest doing an arena style map in that case. I propose the image below. The idea is that enemies spawn and come in from the red arrows. Enemies may reach the main base (yellow circle) by going through wide choke points at the cyan arrows. Only players may move between the blue double arrow areas that allow them to travel quickly between lanes. The concept is that enemies will spawn from the 2 larger areas normally and special enemies, waves, or events will spawn and come in at the central lane. The reason I think this is a good idea is it allows, again, for players to split up or join together, but if you want to join up together, it's going to be very risky since the only way to do it is to defend at the choke points that are SOO close to the main base. Plus you have to sometimes also deal with dangers from the main ramp, like bosses.
Hope I'm not too late to brainstorm, but I came up with a list of detailed ideas for some necromancy spells...
Splitting Plague: You launch a poisonous projectile at the target direction; if it hits an enemy, the projectile splits into additional projectiles that "seek" out nearby enemies but don't change direction mid-flight. These projectiles will not split on impact. All enemies that are effected take damage over time until the duration is over.
Plague Scythe: Throw a spinning dark blade towards the target direction; if it hits an enemy, it attaches to the enemy and does damage to the enemy it's attached to and also to nearby enemies nearby. If the enemy dies, the scythe seeks out another enemy. The scythe lasts for a total duration of x amount of time, not depending on how many enemies it attached to.
Poison Skull: Shoot a skull in the target direction, leaving a poison trail behind it that does damage to enemies that pass through it and does damage over time even if the enemy isn't in the poison area. The skull explodes if it hits an enemy, doing high burst damage. This adds strategy since you can either burst damage a tough enemy or purposefully miss enemies to effect the maximum area possible.
Bone Tower: Create a tower of bones at the target location. Enemies collide with the tower. The tower springs up spikes near it frequently, dealing damage to enemies hit.
Explosive Shade: Summon a dark being that randomly roams around for a short duration, smashing enemies and creating explosions.
Orb of Life Force: Toss an orb of darkness at the target location. The orb frequently sucks up the life force of nearby enemies (works better with less enemies since it's more likely to kill an enemy if there's only a few to absorb life force from). So, effectively, it sucks up life force faster the less enemies there are. Once it's duration is over, it sends all the life force to the caster.
Chaos Field: Drop a chaotic disk at the target location. All enemies that are effected recieve a chaotic effect. There's lots of things you could do, they could run around in circles and if they touch a non-chaotic effected enemy, it could spread it to them and all enemies that are effected take damage over time. Maybe it makes enemies attack each other. Maybe the circle stays there and it does damage over time and enemies that die become undead for awhile, who knows, up to you.
Black Hole: This might be a bit of a challenge to make, but so far I don't think there's much you can't do within the limits of the engine when it comes to aesthetics. The idea is it doesn't need to suck enemies towards it, but if enemies step on the black hole, they get sucked inside and they take damage over time until the duration is over. If any enemies survive, the black hole explodes and launches enemies in random directions, dealing additional bonus damage.
These detailed descriptions don't leave much to the imagination, but if you need the creative freedom to make whatever you want the way you want it, at least take these as inspiration. Really excited about this project and I hope you finish it.
Just wanted to drop by again to say that I like this project more and more as new content is completed. Your visual work confirms just how much paying attention to the little details pay off. Very inspiring. :)
I am very impressed by the boss at the end of your video. I guess the yaw and pitch control of the pillars is triggered though?
Hey guys thanks for replies
@yukaboy: Go
I will sketch some of this abilities and watch if they turn out nicely i still need 2 abils for necro. Will definitely try to make Bone Tower and Black hole for start.
Basicaly production of content slowed down significantly cuz lots of assets working pretty badly and i throwing out lot's of stuff immediately after making it cuz it didn't pass my own quality assurance test :D. Just lack of effect content in general :<.
I will be testing map layouts after making at least enemies for 4 zerg waves and 5 - zerg boss later.
@Elmaex: Go
this is done by some tricky workaround: I'm creating mover within the scope of each pillar and positioning it right beneath the column. Before that i changing host of column's actor and using some site operation to customize floating in air:
Rocker, Rotator, ExplicitRotation and SOpForwardVector with ::HostForward set to this mover. After that i can just control the movers and columns will rotate towards it.
After column's landing I'm saving position of this mover to dummy invisible actor, so when column will be lifted again it will save it's rotation. Basically i made this with triggers but actualy i realize now that this can be done via data also.
I also must find some balance between complex and simple abilities cuz such abils like Impale, Ring of Frost and Frozen orb will make map unplayable on slow computers. I have GTX760 and GTS250 machines on GTS250 more than 5 impales drops framerate by half :<>
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Curse PremiumCan we maybe get an update on how things are going?
I don't mean to make it sound like I'm rushing anybody here, I'm just curious as it has been nearly a week since your last reply.
I've started to remake everything with data =<. My trigger abilities lag like hell when fired from 3 mages simultaneously. I tested few of them with data and it works better (rly dont know why >:( ). Maybe persistants works better than wait triggers :<. I'm also testing possibility of making just literaly everything with data. Also remaking some of them for deeper and better gameplay mechanics and trying to make them look more sexier. As usual i producing tons of test stuff just to make sure that it is complete garbage :>.
And yeah if you watched news we have quite a situation here with R*ssian occupies and i have some troubles with my job, so probably no update in nearest future.
Data rules! You know it man! :)
Any updates on this map? Need this stuff soon.
No man sorry, this is holding on pause for a month now, too busy. Have a time only for simple testing/site roaming but not for working 3-5 hours a day on this.I just reworked some of my spells in data and changed/simplified some of them for better performance, but overall i'm rly lack of time lately. Data is much more time consuming than triggers :<. Also i stumped with lack of assets for what i want to create. Basicaly this sphere things and few ugly beams is all that we've got in sc2 >:(. Anyway i used that for Eye of the Storm spell, you can see it and few other updated abils in this video. Probably not worth the uploading but... whatever. Hopefully I'll deal with all of my business and then will dive back in map editing.