I'm working on a DoTA style map with some twists. The idea was given to me by Etravex , so big thanks to him. ANYWAYS...
There are 2 teams of 5. The bases are at the top and bottom and there are 2 lanes. In each lane there are 3 structures which can be captured. (I will call them tier 1, 2, and 3 structures) If your team currently holds a structure, your base will spawn some extra troops in addition to the ones it normally spawns. The tier 2 building in each lane will give even more powerful troops but obviously it is harder to capture since it is right in the middle. And if you can capture the structure close to your enemies base (team A's tier 1= team B's tier 3) you will get very powerful troops (like archrons).
What I am trying to do is think of some optional things to capture that are not as important but will be helpful to the team that holds them. So let me know if any of these sound good:
1) A teleporter/base near the middle of each lane that allows the team that owns it to teleport from there to their main base instantly, and might even heal allied heroes.
2) Some sort of gas refinery that will give your team vespene gas, which then allows your team to purchase upgrades that affect your creeps. (For example, player 1 purchases armor lv 2, so ALL his teams creeps will now have armor level 2). This will make creeps alot more important and not just there for killing and leveling
I'm also debating if I should add towers. There are a few cannons inside each teams base so they can not get rushed but currently there are no cannons out in the lanes. Would this be good or bad?
So anybody have some advice for those 2 features or even maybe some more capture points?
Good point... i did not think of that. One fix would be to eliminate items completely. In fact, I was thinking about having the heroes level up attributes like in WOW. So for example, when you level up a dialog box appears and you can raise 5 stats by 1 point. Removing items might make your attribute choices more important.
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there are lots of aos style maps out there. Dota was not the first and isnt the only, it was just the most played and not necasarily the best. Tides of blood, eve of the apololypse, eternal conflict and many more all had original ideas on this format. You should looks to these to incoporate ideas.
In tob you could add 1xwave of x unit, in eternal conflict there was a Builder hero whos job it was to upgrade the units spawned and add new and better types to each wave. etc
Mhh, im not too sure if looking into other maps will lead to innovative new ideas.. rather think about new stuff.. most often the best ideas are those you have when doing something pretty different, like cooking, and then you come up with the idea:
Why not have my heroes use an aggro meter "heat", which fills up in battle with other heroes and every hero has his own unique aggro ability.. okay thats not very innovative at all, but would be rather new for a dota clone, maybe be better than in most other games an aggro meter is used.. (btw: i dont think you can come up with this particular idea when cooking, i was just short of any other ways to describe it :3)
Or maybe while doing some history research for university:
Why not add banners as a gameplay element.. in medieval times, banners and drums were essential to the moral of an army so why not add it as a gameplay element.. being able to set up a banner for buffs and being able to steal the enemies banner to weaken them..
2 ideas which just might come to your mind when not forcing to think about your map, doing your everyday casual stuff..
Thanks, both of you. But I was wondering specificly what you guys thought about the 2 ideas I listed up there on my first post or maybe some other kinds of capture points that do helpful things. Any ideas?
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There has been many maps with similar kind of idea. You controll some area and get something in return, so its not anything amazing. I dont think with that you can make your map stand up from the other maps.
Still, its not a bad idea so go for it if you feel like it. Good map is a good map.
I understand others have done similar things. I will re-post the original question to make it more clear:
DO YOU THINK THE FOLLOWING WOULD BE GOOD TO ADD:
1) A teleporter/base near the middle of each lane that allows the team that owns it to teleport from there to their main base instantly, and might even heal allied heroes.
2) Some sort of gas refinery that will give your team vespene gas, which then allows your team to purchase upgrades that affect your creeps. (For example, player 1 purchases armor lv 2, so ALL his teams creeps will now have armor level 2). This will make creeps alot more important and not just there for killing and leveling
3) something like inhibitors from league of legends, where if you kill it your enemy is cippled. Not so sure about this since you already have the capture territories.
2) I dont like upgrading creeps in AoS map. I want to buy stuff and update my hero. There were some maps in wc3 where you could buy units that spawn and some maps did it pretty well (the bought units were only units that spawn for the team and when you bought it it was permanent spawning unit). So no I dont want to upgrade creeps. Who cares about the creeps? I would find it more anoying than fun if creeps become harder to kill the longer the game goes (especially if both teams manage to upgrade evenly).
3) Havent played league of legends. Sounds promising, alltought really poor description.
I'm working on a DoTA style map with some twists. The idea was given to me by Etravex , so big thanks to him. ANYWAYS...
There are 2 teams of 5. The bases are at the top and bottom and there are 2 lanes. In each lane there are 3 structures which can be captured. (I will call them tier 1, 2, and 3 structures) If your team currently holds a structure, your base will spawn some extra troops in addition to the ones it normally spawns. The tier 2 building in each lane will give even more powerful troops but obviously it is harder to capture since it is right in the middle. And if you can capture the structure close to your enemies base (team A's tier 1= team B's tier 3) you will get very powerful troops (like archrons).
What I am trying to do is think of some optional things to capture that are not as important but will be helpful to the team that holds them. So let me know if any of these sound good:
1) A teleporter/base near the middle of each lane that allows the team that owns it to teleport from there to their main base instantly, and might even heal allied heroes.
2) Some sort of gas refinery that will give your team vespene gas, which then allows your team to purchase upgrades that affect your creeps. (For example, player 1 purchases armor lv 2, so ALL his teams creeps will now have armor level 2). This will make creeps alot more important and not just there for killing and leveling
I'm also debating if I should add towers. There are a few cannons inside each teams base so they can not get rushed but currently there are no cannons out in the lanes. Would this be good or bad?
So anybody have some advice for those 2 features or even maybe some more capture points?
It wont be successful I'll tell you now. Just because you don't seem to grasp the idea of dota, imo.
Ok thanks for the imput. Can I ask why not for #1? (just wondering because I want to include stuff that people like).
better description to #3:
In several DOTA games, including league of legends, there is something like this. In LoL, it is called an inhibitor. There is one in each lane at each base ( so 3 per team in DOTA but only 2 per team in my map cuz there are 2 lanes). Basically, when your team pushes far enough to reach this structure and kills the turret protecting it, you have the game almost won. So when you kill this inhibitor, your creeps now have an advantage because they have were being "inhibited" by the structure and now they are fully powered up. The inhibitors re spawn every 5 minutes or so. But it can be something like a barracks, which, one destroyed, no longer produces creeps for the team. So the effect is the same, either way. It sort of speeds up the end game a bit. But like I said, not so sure about this one because of the set up of my map with the territories.
As for upgrading your hero, I took items out for a few reasons, but I might bring them back. First reason = if you get extra creeps because your team is doing well, you are punished because the enemy gets extra money since they get more kills. I want there to be no downside to capturing territory. And 2 = I have made a custom attribute system so that each level you can pick 4 areas in which to upgrade your hero.
anyway, thank you for the input, I appreciate it.
edit-
@zeldarules28: Go
seems you posted before I did. Thanks for the encouraging words >.< I know what DOTA is supposed to be. This is not supposed to be DOTA, it is supposed to be my own map which happens to use a few things that DOTA also has, like 1 hero and neutral spawning creeps. but that is about it. with all the bad maps that seem to be popular, Id say this has a chance. Seriously. I saw a map called "unit_test" and it was popular. lol. A few maps deserve their spot in the popular list, but most do not.
As a moderator in the Project Development Forums, I will not tolerate posts such as one you just made. He clearly said it was a Dota "style" map, and that he was wanting to add "twists", Which proceeded to him asking for our "opinion" on the matter.
Your post was less than constructive and borders almost on trolling.
You can have 2 trees of attributes for the players to use.
One is your standard ability tree, which I hope will have plenty of passives. The other, will be more of a "Command" tree, where instead of beefing up your only hero, your hero can control his/her own squad.
That becomes a pain to balance I imagine however, but still, I think it'd add a nice twist (not that it hasn't been done before)
I also favor multi-stage maps. Maps where you can conquer a forward base that switches control between you and your opponent. With this, you don't have to have creep upgrade, because capturing a forward base allows the owning teaming to spawn more creeps.
If you want to have more objective areas, use different resource types so that they have more weight. I would still have items in the map just for this reason; and having popular items costs several types of resources would add to the challenge of trying to hold several object areas at once in order to earn it.
@Pimpmunkeh: Go
So you think its a good idea for the forward base...Ok. I was not planing on having it spawn creeps, it was mostly going to provide its facilities to the owner team. (teleporter to base, heal, items, etc)..Nice idea.
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I like the idea of capturable buildings but not of them adding to your spawn count. Maybe add 3 lanes with them interconnecting where one lane has a spawn that comes from that lane for whoever hold it. I'm not a big fan of the teleporter, I prefer to have an item be used for something like that. I like the idea of the gas, but maybe give a small income of gas for players at their base. Like 1 ever 3 seconds and make the upgrades cost like 15 or something high so that getting the gas buildings are worth it and beneficial.
For the cannons I think depending on how the lanes are set up there should be towers. I know the dota map right now it's just biding your time before you take out the towers. I think for the map size it's too few. Maybe more variety in the towers.
All this information I'm saying comes from my experience with the Dota map on SC2 and from Demigod experience, use to be crazy about it.
I like the idea of capturable buildings but not of them adding to your spawn count. Maybe add 3 lanes with them interconnecting where one lane has a spawn that comes from that lane for whoever hold it.....
Thanks, but could you clarify this? Im not sure what you meant.
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If you were to make capturable buildings, I think that the first building should be the strongest and become weaker the further you go out. Otherwise once a team gets halfway through, the other team is just waiting to die and has next to no chance of a come-back.
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note- i also posted this in the map ides thread<<
[dont steal this idea]
I'm working on a DoTA style map with some twists. The idea was given to me by Etravex , so big thanks to him. ANYWAYS...
There are 2 teams of 5. The bases are at the top and bottom and there are 2 lanes. In each lane there are 3 structures which can be captured. (I will call them tier 1, 2, and 3 structures) If your team currently holds a structure, your base will spawn some extra troops in addition to the ones it normally spawns. The tier 2 building in each lane will give even more powerful troops but obviously it is harder to capture since it is right in the middle. And if you can capture the structure close to your enemies base (team A's tier 1= team B's tier 3) you will get very powerful troops (like archrons).
What I am trying to do is think of some optional things to capture that are not as important but will be helpful to the team that holds them. So let me know if any of these sound good:
1) A teleporter/base near the middle of each lane that allows the team that owns it to teleport from there to their main base instantly, and might even heal allied heroes.
2) Some sort of gas refinery that will give your team vespene gas, which then allows your team to purchase upgrades that affect your creeps. (For example, player 1 purchases armor lv 2, so ALL his teams creeps will now have armor level 2). This will make creeps alot more important and not just there for killing and leveling
I'm also debating if I should add towers. There are a few cannons inside each teams base so they can not get rushed but currently there are no cannons out in the lanes. Would this be good or bad?
So anybody have some advice for those 2 features or even maybe some more capture points?
If one team spawns more units, and this follows standard DotA gameplay, the other team will get more gold and xp. That is one thing to keep in mind.
Good point... i did not think of that. One fix would be to eliminate items completely. In fact, I was thinking about having the heroes level up attributes like in WOW. So for example, when you level up a dialog box appears and you can raise 5 stats by 1 point. Removing items might make your attribute choices more important.
@zeldarules28: Go
there are lots of aos style maps out there. Dota was not the first and isnt the only, it was just the most played and not necasarily the best. Tides of blood, eve of the apololypse, eternal conflict and many more all had original ideas on this format. You should looks to these to incoporate ideas.
In tob you could add 1xwave of x unit, in eternal conflict there was a Builder hero whos job it was to upgrade the units spawned and add new and better types to each wave. etc
Mhh, im not too sure if looking into other maps will lead to innovative new ideas.. rather think about new stuff.. most often the best ideas are those you have when doing something pretty different, like cooking, and then you come up with the idea:
Why not have my heroes use an aggro meter "heat", which fills up in battle with other heroes and every hero has his own unique aggro ability.. okay thats not very innovative at all, but would be rather new for a dota clone, maybe be better than in most other games an aggro meter is used.. (btw: i dont think you can come up with this particular idea when cooking, i was just short of any other ways to describe it :3)
Or maybe while doing some history research for university:
Why not add banners as a gameplay element.. in medieval times, banners and drums were essential to the moral of an army so why not add it as a gameplay element.. being able to set up a banner for buffs and being able to steal the enemies banner to weaken them..
2 ideas which just might come to your mind when not forcing to think about your map, doing your everyday casual stuff..
Thanks, both of you. But I was wondering specificly what you guys thought about the 2 ideas I listed up there on my first post or maybe some other kinds of capture points that do helpful things. Any ideas?
bump <.> what do you guys think?
There has been many maps with similar kind of idea. You controll some area and get something in return, so its not anything amazing. I dont think with that you can make your map stand up from the other maps.
Still, its not a bad idea so go for it if you feel like it. Good map is a good map.
I understand others have done similar things. I will re-post the original question to make it more clear:
DO YOU THINK THE FOLLOWING WOULD BE GOOD TO ADD:
1) A teleporter/base near the middle of each lane that allows the team that owns it to teleport from there to their main base instantly, and might even heal allied heroes.
2) Some sort of gas refinery that will give your team vespene gas, which then allows your team to purchase upgrades that affect your creeps. (For example, player 1 purchases armor lv 2, so ALL his teams creeps will now have armor level 2). This will make creeps alot more important and not just there for killing and leveling
3) something like inhibitors from league of legends, where if you kill it your enemy is cippled. Not so sure about this since you already have the capture territories.
Thanks =]
bump..sorry to keep bumping, but I really would appreciate some advice.
1) Dont like it
2) I dont like upgrading creeps in AoS map. I want to buy stuff and update my hero. There were some maps in wc3 where you could buy units that spawn and some maps did it pretty well (the bought units were only units that spawn for the team and when you bought it it was permanent spawning unit). So no I dont want to upgrade creeps. Who cares about the creeps? I would find it more anoying than fun if creeps become harder to kill the longer the game goes (especially if both teams manage to upgrade evenly).
3) Havent played league of legends. Sounds promising, alltought really poor description.
It wont be successful I'll tell you now. Just because you don't seem to grasp the idea of dota, imo.
Ok thanks for the imput. Can I ask why not for #1? (just wondering because I want to include stuff that people like).
better description to #3:
In several DOTA games, including league of legends, there is something like this. In LoL, it is called an inhibitor. There is one in each lane at each base ( so 3 per team in DOTA but only 2 per team in my map cuz there are 2 lanes). Basically, when your team pushes far enough to reach this structure and kills the turret protecting it, you have the game almost won. So when you kill this inhibitor, your creeps now have an advantage because they have were being "inhibited" by the structure and now they are fully powered up. The inhibitors re spawn every 5 minutes or so. But it can be something like a barracks, which, one destroyed, no longer produces creeps for the team. So the effect is the same, either way. It sort of speeds up the end game a bit. But like I said, not so sure about this one because of the set up of my map with the territories.
As for upgrading your hero, I took items out for a few reasons, but I might bring them back. First reason = if you get extra creeps because your team is doing well, you are punished because the enemy gets extra money since they get more kills. I want there to be no downside to capturing territory. And 2 = I have made a custom attribute system so that each level you can pick 4 areas in which to upgrade your hero.
anyway, thank you for the input, I appreciate it.
edit- @zeldarules28: Go seems you posted before I did. Thanks for the encouraging words >.< I know what DOTA is supposed to be. This is not supposed to be DOTA, it is supposed to be my own map which happens to use a few things that DOTA also has, like 1 hero and neutral spawning creeps. but that is about it. with all the bad maps that seem to be popular, Id say this has a chance. Seriously. I saw a map called "unit_test" and it was popular. lol. A few maps deserve their spot in the popular list, but most do not.
@ST4RKiLL3R:
As a moderator in the Project Development Forums, I will not tolerate posts such as one you just made. He clearly said it was a Dota "style" map, and that he was wanting to add "twists", Which proceeded to him asking for our "opinion" on the matter.
Your post was less than constructive and borders almost on trolling.
@zenx1: Go
You can have 2 trees of attributes for the players to use. One is your standard ability tree, which I hope will have plenty of passives. The other, will be more of a "Command" tree, where instead of beefing up your only hero, your hero can control his/her own squad. That becomes a pain to balance I imagine however, but still, I think it'd add a nice twist (not that it hasn't been done before)
I also favor multi-stage maps. Maps where you can conquer a forward base that switches control between you and your opponent. With this, you don't have to have creep upgrade, because capturing a forward base allows the owning teaming to spawn more creeps.
If you want to have more objective areas, use different resource types so that they have more weight. I would still have items in the map just for this reason; and having popular items costs several types of resources would add to the challenge of trying to hold several object areas at once in order to earn it.
@EternalWraith: Go Thanks =]
@Pimpmunkeh: Go So you think its a good idea for the forward base...Ok. I was not planing on having it spawn creeps, it was mostly going to provide its facilities to the owner team. (teleporter to base, heal, items, etc)..Nice idea.
bump... anybody have an opinion on the ideas, please?
I like the idea of capturable buildings but not of them adding to your spawn count. Maybe add 3 lanes with them interconnecting where one lane has a spawn that comes from that lane for whoever hold it. I'm not a big fan of the teleporter, I prefer to have an item be used for something like that. I like the idea of the gas, but maybe give a small income of gas for players at their base. Like 1 ever 3 seconds and make the upgrades cost like 15 or something high so that getting the gas buildings are worth it and beneficial.
For the cannons I think depending on how the lanes are set up there should be towers. I know the dota map right now it's just biding your time before you take out the towers. I think for the map size it's too few. Maybe more variety in the towers.
All this information I'm saying comes from my experience with the Dota map on SC2 and from Demigod experience, use to be crazy about it.
Thanks, but could you clarify this? Im not sure what you meant.
If you were to make capturable buildings, I think that the first building should be the strongest and become weaker the further you go out. Otherwise once a team gets halfway through, the other team is just waiting to die and has next to no chance of a come-back.