It's great to see that Catalyst has finally arisen from the 0 popularity cemetery :). I just played a bunch of matches and I was excited to see that there have been further changes since I last played.
These changes entail the Dusk Wing having 6 weapon slots, and also the drone shield and armor items which the poster above me most likely is referring to. And I have to second his (not exactly precise) criticism: At least for the Drone Shield, it does not only cause your drone to gain additional shields (which is absolutely fine), but makes them regenerate at an insane rate so they are almost indestructable. I really hope that this was not intended; In my humble opinion, reducing the regeneration bonus to 30-50% of what it currently is would balance things out much better.
One other thing though that's really been bugging me about the map is the need to manually 'detonate' your own turrets (and land mines) in order to place new ones. I could sort of understand the purpose of demanding more micromanagement from the player, but to me it really feels like that 'feature' is more of a nuisance than anything else. I would love to see things changed in such a way that whenever you place an additional turret (or land mine) which exceeds your turret count limit, it automatically destroys the turret (or land mine) on the map which you placed first.
Oh, and the fact that you can now set up more than one turret in the first place is amazing, but in one of my matches, I had 4 turrets equipped and everything seemed to work just fine (apart from the above-mentioned unnecessary micro intensity), but at one point in the game I was suddenly unable to throw down more than one. I unequipped and reequipped all 4 items, but to no avail. After spamming the turret button for like 30 seconds, I could - for whatever reason - place a second one, but that was all I could make happen. Hope this bug will get figured out sometime.
On a final note, I sort of deem the repair abilities useless since their benefit is far too little to even merit their use. I would think something like "heals 5% instantly and 10% over time" more feasible. Regardless, what should be done no matter what is make it so the autocast doesn't kick in if you're at full health (or shields).
I'll fix the drone health bug now. Catalyst isn't locked at 0 popularity anymore you say?
I strongly disagree with the repair abilities being useless. I always, always, always have one running constantly. I fear any buff would make them simply too powerful.
They were originally % based, but this made them near useless early game.
Catalyst isn't locked at 0 popularity anymore you say?
That's right, it's currently on page 2 of the custom maps list. And I have talked to a couple of other players who were just as happy to be able to play the map again, so they're trying to get as many matches done as possible to push it onto page 1.
If you insist on the repair abilities being useful, I might have to give them another try. Unfortunately so far I've had pretty much zero success with them, but you never know... Maybe my strategy was just flawed.
Finally! I sent a message to a friend of mine in caps saying catalyst is back :)
Also, i agree about the healing abilities being kinda UP. I always use them, and they help me a lot, but once i get myself civilian repair, i just quit using them since compared to civilian repair, theyre just a waste of energy. Percentage based would help a lot, and to not make it useless early game, you can make it something like "15+5% of total health, and 5% over time". Maybe different numbers, but something like that. They'll heal more or less the same early game, but will not seem like a waste of energy when you have 1k+ life and shields.
I'm waiting for my friend to get home so that we can play a bunch of games ;)
oh, and dusk wing got a 6th weapon? Eiviyn, I <3 u. I was able to own with the dusk wing before... But now... MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I think the map has the problem, that if 1 Team has advantage early then they win the game always. I never seen a game that was turned around. Maybe it looks a few time so but u see after 5 min wich team wins!
So pls, remove that u can build Guns and buildings in ur enemys base!!! The Guns, the repair tower and now i see a enemy landing tower in my base???
wtf, this makes the prob, that a game is not turnable much bigger.
and what about 5v5? u cant push and def with 3guys! once lost 1 side of a base its over! maybe u can def a while but for what?
Im pretty sure increasing player numbers will upset a lot of triggers.
But yhea, i think it'd be better if you cant build buildings in your enemies' base
and early game doesnt decide the winner. Yes, you can probably see that the leading team is gonna win, but not because its impossible to retake all spawn points but because that team is simply better and will be harder to beat once they get the right equipment. i never worry about the early game, because i know that once i get that banshee the guys are toast.
Its impossible to get a big advantage early game because you get killed by creeps too easily to be able to hold the other teams spawn points, let alone actually engage a base-turret. The only advantage you get are minerals you get from creep kills, but that doesnt have a too large impact because majority of the money comes from the passive income.
And you can retake control points really easily, unless all 3 opponents are sitting on it, in which case you should just make sure they dont advance.
and the part about not being able to push and defend with 3 players... Thats a lie. I can push by myself, i don't need assistance, and i'm using a fighter ffs. I had no trouble even before i got the extra weapon slots, now i don't even get to the dusk wing. And you can push easily with only 2 players. And even if all 3 players move out, you won't need to defend cause only an idiot would try to run into your base while his is getting hammered, and even then, one of the three players just recalls and that's that. And if they take spawn points, they won't be able to hold them since you're killing off half the troops leaving their base, and your own troops will kill the ones that are coming from the free side because they will outnumber them.
The game is built around 5v5. I went with 3v3 so that the popularity count would raise. Now that I don't need to worry or care about that, I'll be upping the player count to 5v5 next update. Still no eta on when this update will be. It takes me quite some time to skin a map and I don't want to rush it. I'll also probably be releasing the new map under a different name so that anyone who preferred the old layout may still play it.
more spawns = More things to kill for your opponents = more money for your opponents = disadvantage
And if thats not the case, it would create an imbalance on the "natural order" of the map which i don't think would be good.
Giving other players control over the left player and/or improving the AI would be way more helpful. The AI part would be hard though... But giving control and res share would be good, plus the ability to upgrade the vehicle (You can upgrade items if you have control of it's owner. i tried it with my friend, it works)
Also, eiviyn, by skinning the map, did you mean making a new terrain or something completely different? It would be nice to know what's coming up, so if you have the time, mind writing up changes we can expect? and a pic of the new terrain if its coming.
Cant wait to see the new version =D
Map's gameplay is broken at the moment by these turrets/towers on enemy territory.
I don't have a clue about any idea to implement these. It's just lack any sense. What the purpose? No, really.
Ah... asking questions doesn't matter now. I'm not gonna make any further feedback about the map, because it's not giving much effect anyway, and everything I see is gameplay being rigged and wrecked around with random experiments by a twisted logic of the author.
Ummm... as far as i know shes taking all the feedback and making something out of it. You want to hear my guess about why the turrets and stuff can be built on enemy territory? because the supply depots are neutral and have an interact ability, which is limited to neutral players. If it would belong to the AI player, it would get auto-attacked.
Quick fix would either be making the lowered depots invulnerable and change owner, or change their owner to a new player thats set as ally to team 1 and neutral to team 2.
and i dont see random experiments and twisted logic anywhere. Everyone asked for rebuildable towers and turrets, we got them. I asked for a wraith buff, and for some reason i got extra slots on the banshee and dusk wing... But if im right, it also has those extra 50 health. Either that or i micro better than before...
Map's gameplay is broken at the moment by these turrets/towers on enemy territory.
I don't have a clue about any idea to implement these. It's just lack any sense. What the purpose? No, really.
Ah... asking questions doesn't matter now. I'm not gonna make any further feedback about the map, because it's not giving much effect anyway, and everything I see is gameplay being rigged and wrecked around with random experiments by a twisted logic of the author.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I do read and take into account everything that is posted on all 3 threads that I "run" (TL, this, official).
A lot of people have requested the ability to purchase back base turrets and landing towers. This was something I never really planned on, but was mostly done by request. I knew about the possibility of buying the enemy team's structures back as your own (I even implemented spawns for owning an enemy landing tower), but I thought I would simply leave the system be and let the players decide. It's more or less been unanimous that buying enemy structures isn't desirable.
I'm only one person. I can't make sweeping changes too quickly. I can't test things internally, because the only internal testers I have are my own AI. I've not based my map on a pre-existing style so that I can just copy ideas that have already been tested. What I'm saying is that I take feedback into more consideration than is immediately apparent. I nearly rely on it entirely these days...
I'm not kidding when I say that I've likely read every post in this whole thread 3 times over.
Also, eiviyn, by skinning the map, did you mean making a new terrain or something completely different? It would be nice to know what's coming up, so if you have the time, mind writing up changes we can expect? and a pic of the new terrain if its coming.
Cant wait to see the new version =D
Very much work in progress. Note that the detail isn't visible at this distance; it's just to demonstrate the new layout. I've added a fair few new items. I want to get the AI sorted out too with this patch.
Won't be this patch but something I'm considering; removing the vehicle shop entirely and just having you upgrade your starter vehicle in a similar style to how you upgrade items. Another thing I'm considering; removing the ability shop and replacing it with a dota style skill system. Each vehicle class will have set skills, with more unlocked when you upgrade your chassis.
"Won't be this patch but something I'm considering; removing the vehicle shop entirely and just having you upgrade your starter vehicle in a similar style to how you upgrade items. Another thing I'm considering; removing the ability shop and replacing it with a dota style skill system. Each vehicle class will have set skills, with more unlocked when you upgrade your chassis."
I consider both of these changes horrible, for startes need actually more than one game to even look around catchin all the possibilieites if now the shops were removed they could not look around and just wonder how people come with these imbalanced battlecruisers or whatever. your game, but i remember you wanted it kept simple. well buying a vehicle = simple. testing out by playing more matches and every time picking a new one is not simple. i predict if you are going to change this new players will most likely not playing more than one or two frustrated games before they give up on it.
I'd say anything that moves the map closer to DotA takes away from it's originality, sooo.. :)
I like the way it is currently entirely freeform. Chassis should give a passive bonus to it's intended role (improved drones/turrets for Carriers, for instance), and perhaps have one unique ability, but otherwise they should be freely selectable, in my opinion.
I don't mind removing the vehicle shop - you should be allowed to change your starter vehicle free of charge before the match begins, though, because people might forget to change to their desired chassis in the lobby.
I think you should keep chassis the way they are - very basic frames for the creation of your own personalized vehicle. Giving them their own abilities would simply turn them into fancy-named Aeon of Strife heroes, and there's enough AoS maps with pre-defined characters out there. Keep it fresh!
I thought about removing the lobby select and making a cool intro screen where you select your class, listing abilities and future vehicle upgrades along with strong points and weak points.
I really need to do something with abilities though, as right now being only able to display 10 is just cripplingly boring.
It's great to see that Catalyst has finally arisen from the 0 popularity cemetery :). I just played a bunch of matches and I was excited to see that there have been further changes since I last played.
These changes entail the Dusk Wing having 6 weapon slots, and also the drone shield and armor items which the poster above me most likely is referring to. And I have to second his (not exactly precise) criticism: At least for the Drone Shield, it does not only cause your drone to gain additional shields (which is absolutely fine), but makes them regenerate at an insane rate so they are almost indestructable. I really hope that this was not intended; In my humble opinion, reducing the regeneration bonus to 30-50% of what it currently is would balance things out much better.
One other thing though that's really been bugging me about the map is the need to manually 'detonate' your own turrets (and land mines) in order to place new ones. I could sort of understand the purpose of demanding more micromanagement from the player, but to me it really feels like that 'feature' is more of a nuisance than anything else. I would love to see things changed in such a way that whenever you place an additional turret (or land mine) which exceeds your turret count limit, it automatically destroys the turret (or land mine) on the map which you placed first.
Oh, and the fact that you can now set up more than one turret in the first place is amazing, but in one of my matches, I had 4 turrets equipped and everything seemed to work just fine (apart from the above-mentioned unnecessary micro intensity), but at one point in the game I was suddenly unable to throw down more than one. I unequipped and reequipped all 4 items, but to no avail. After spamming the turret button for like 30 seconds, I could - for whatever reason - place a second one, but that was all I could make happen. Hope this bug will get figured out sometime.
On a final note, I sort of deem the repair abilities useless since their benefit is far too little to even merit their use. I would think something like "heals 5% instantly and 10% over time" more feasible. Regardless, what should be done no matter what is make it so the autocast doesn't kick in if you're at full health (or shields).
I'll fix the drone health bug now. Catalyst isn't locked at 0 popularity anymore you say?
I strongly disagree with the repair abilities being useless. I always, always, always have one running constantly. I fear any buff would make them simply too powerful.
They were originally % based, but this made them near useless early game.
That's right, it's currently on page 2 of the custom maps list. And I have talked to a couple of other players who were just as happy to be able to play the map again, so they're trying to get as many matches done as possible to push it onto page 1.
If you insist on the repair abilities being useful, I might have to give them another try. Unfortunately so far I've had pretty much zero success with them, but you never know... Maybe my strategy was just flawed.
Finally! I sent a message to a friend of mine in caps saying catalyst is back :)
Also, i agree about the healing abilities being kinda UP. I always use them, and they help me a lot, but once i get myself civilian repair, i just quit using them since compared to civilian repair, theyre just a waste of energy. Percentage based would help a lot, and to not make it useless early game, you can make it something like "15+5% of total health, and 5% over time". Maybe different numbers, but something like that. They'll heal more or less the same early game, but will not seem like a waste of energy when you have 1k+ life and shields.
I'm waiting for my friend to get home so that we can play a bunch of games ;)
oh, and dusk wing got a 6th weapon? Eiviyn, I <3 u. I was able to own with the dusk wing before... But now... MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Missiles are too powerful. Also, the bombs(mines on aircraft) are not so great, it would even be better if they function like regular mines.
I think the map has the problem, that if 1 Team has advantage early then they win the game always. I never seen a game that was turned around. Maybe it looks a few time so but u see after 5 min wich team wins!
So pls, remove that u can build Guns and buildings in ur enemys base!!! The Guns, the repair tower and now i see a enemy landing tower in my base??? wtf, this makes the prob, that a game is not turnable much bigger.
and what about 5v5? u cant push and def with 3guys! once lost 1 side of a base its over! maybe u can def a while but for what?
Im pretty sure increasing player numbers will upset a lot of triggers.
But yhea, i think it'd be better if you cant build buildings in your enemies' base
and early game doesnt decide the winner. Yes, you can probably see that the leading team is gonna win, but not because its impossible to retake all spawn points but because that team is simply better and will be harder to beat once they get the right equipment. i never worry about the early game, because i know that once i get that banshee the guys are toast.
Its impossible to get a big advantage early game because you get killed by creeps too easily to be able to hold the other teams spawn points, let alone actually engage a base-turret. The only advantage you get are minerals you get from creep kills, but that doesnt have a too large impact because majority of the money comes from the passive income.
And you can retake control points really easily, unless all 3 opponents are sitting on it, in which case you should just make sure they dont advance.
and the part about not being able to push and defend with 3 players... Thats a lie. I can push by myself, i don't need assistance, and i'm using a fighter ffs. I had no trouble even before i got the extra weapon slots, now i don't even get to the dusk wing. And you can push easily with only 2 players. And even if all 3 players move out, you won't need to defend cause only an idiot would try to run into your base while his is getting hammered, and even then, one of the three players just recalls and that's that. And if they take spawn points, they won't be able to hold them since you're killing off half the troops leaving their base, and your own troops will kill the ones that are coming from the free side because they will outnumber them.
The game is built around 5v5. I went with 3v3 so that the popularity count would raise. Now that I don't need to worry or care about that, I'll be upping the player count to 5v5 next update. Still no eta on when this update will be. It takes me quite some time to skin a map and I don't want to rush it. I'll also probably be releasing the new map under a different name so that anyone who preferred the old layout may still play it.
skin a new map for 5v5? Why not implement in the aktually terrain?
if killcount >= x then reward
or
if killcount = x then reward AND proper killtriggers
bug since version 1.
It would be nice if the team that lost a member were to get compensated. Maybe that side could get more spawns?
more spawns = More things to kill for your opponents = more money for your opponents = disadvantage
And if thats not the case, it would create an imbalance on the "natural order" of the map which i don't think would be good.
Giving other players control over the left player and/or improving the AI would be way more helpful. The AI part would be hard though... But giving control and res share would be good, plus the ability to upgrade the vehicle (You can upgrade items if you have control of it's owner. i tried it with my friend, it works)
Also, eiviyn, by skinning the map, did you mean making a new terrain or something completely different? It would be nice to know what's coming up, so if you have the time, mind writing up changes we can expect? and a pic of the new terrain if its coming.
Cant wait to see the new version =D
Map's gameplay is broken at the moment by these turrets/towers on enemy territory.
I don't have a clue about any idea to implement these. It's just lack any sense. What the purpose? No, really.
Ah... asking questions doesn't matter now. I'm not gonna make any further feedback about the map, because it's not giving much effect anyway, and everything I see is gameplay being rigged and wrecked around with random experiments by a twisted logic of the author.
Ummm... as far as i know shes taking all the feedback and making something out of it. You want to hear my guess about why the turrets and stuff can be built on enemy territory? because the supply depots are neutral and have an interact ability, which is limited to neutral players. If it would belong to the AI player, it would get auto-attacked.
Quick fix would either be making the lowered depots invulnerable and change owner, or change their owner to a new player thats set as ally to team 1 and neutral to team 2.
and i dont see random experiments and twisted logic anywhere. Everyone asked for rebuildable towers and turrets, we got them. I asked for a wraith buff, and for some reason i got extra slots on the banshee and dusk wing... But if im right, it also has those extra 50 health. Either that or i micro better than before...
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I do read and take into account everything that is posted on all 3 threads that I "run" (TL, this, official).
A lot of people have requested the ability to purchase back base turrets and landing towers. This was something I never really planned on, but was mostly done by request. I knew about the possibility of buying the enemy team's structures back as your own (I even implemented spawns for owning an enemy landing tower), but I thought I would simply leave the system be and let the players decide. It's more or less been unanimous that buying enemy structures isn't desirable.
I'm only one person. I can't make sweeping changes too quickly. I can't test things internally, because the only internal testers I have are my own AI. I've not based my map on a pre-existing style so that I can just copy ideas that have already been tested. What I'm saying is that I take feedback into more consideration than is immediately apparent. I nearly rely on it entirely these days...
I'm not kidding when I say that I've likely read every post in this whole thread 3 times over.
Very much work in progress. Note that the detail isn't visible at this distance; it's just to demonstrate the new layout. I've added a fair few new items. I want to get the AI sorted out too with this patch.
Won't be this patch but something I'm considering; removing the vehicle shop entirely and just having you upgrade your starter vehicle in a similar style to how you upgrade items. Another thing I'm considering; removing the ability shop and replacing it with a dota style skill system. Each vehicle class will have set skills, with more unlocked when you upgrade your chassis.
"Won't be this patch but something I'm considering; removing the vehicle shop entirely and just having you upgrade your starter vehicle in a similar style to how you upgrade items. Another thing I'm considering; removing the ability shop and replacing it with a dota style skill system. Each vehicle class will have set skills, with more unlocked when you upgrade your chassis."
I consider both of these changes horrible, for startes need actually more than one game to even look around catchin all the possibilieites if now the shops were removed they could not look around and just wonder how people come with these imbalanced battlecruisers or whatever. your game, but i remember you wanted it kept simple. well buying a vehicle = simple. testing out by playing more matches and every time picking a new one is not simple. i predict if you are going to change this new players will most likely not playing more than one or two frustrated games before they give up on it.
I'd say anything that moves the map closer to DotA takes away from it's originality, sooo.. :) I like the way it is currently entirely freeform. Chassis should give a passive bonus to it's intended role (improved drones/turrets for Carriers, for instance), and perhaps have one unique ability, but otherwise they should be freely selectable, in my opinion.
I don't mind removing the vehicle shop - you should be allowed to change your starter vehicle free of charge before the match begins, though, because people might forget to change to their desired chassis in the lobby.
I think you should keep chassis the way they are - very basic frames for the creation of your own personalized vehicle. Giving them their own abilities would simply turn them into fancy-named Aeon of Strife heroes, and there's enough AoS maps with pre-defined characters out there. Keep it fresh!
I thought about removing the lobby select and making a cool intro screen where you select your class, listing abilities and future vehicle upgrades along with strong points and weak points.
I really need to do something with abilities though, as right now being only able to display 10 is just cripplingly boring.
I uploaded my current work. It's under the name "Catalyst: BETA" and likely won't prove easy to find. It'll be on the new maps tab somewhere.
Note that this isn't something I'd consider a release. More a bug test/feedback point of reference.