Just a reminder: Listening to your players for balance is a bad idea as a Dev most of the time. You can look at what they say is bad, but decide on your own what to change.
+ Like the new center. Leave it as it is now, its fine.
+ NPC Spawns are fine, people need to learn that moving in too close too early is stupid. This was the same for Battle Tanks btw, if you didn't watch out, you die.
- Still no Capture Bar to be seen.
- Base still too weak
- Defense Towers too weak
Edit: Also get on IRC!
Edit: Checking the Update from a minute ago now.
Oh after playing WoW for 5 years I'm well aware of the things some people can come out with! The changes I'm most receptive to, however, are changes that I already had in mind.
The reason I want to change npc spawns is that the game, as of now, only replaces dead units. This makes the spawns a little erratic, though usually favours the defenders. I was going to try a different, more standard model where the spawns are fixed, like in DotA.
I'm very happy with bio right now. It's not overpoweringly strong unless you lose all 5 bases - at which point you basically should lose anyway.
Base defences... well, I dunno. I think I just don't see eye to eye with people on how they should be. To me, they should be a deterrent, only barely strong enough to repel bio. As soon as a tank gets involved, the tower should go down if left unsupported. I buffed the turrets in this latest build. Increased their health and gave them a custom weapon. Will see how this pans out.
- Too many Spawn Defenders at center, reduce the number a little
- Needs more CC Power (Make it so that Spawns alone can't take it)
- Base Defense still too weak
- Mines get priority fire, so when you place them, they die instantly
- Too many spawns from the Capture Points, when you're with stupid (like I'm often), you can't turn the tide of battle anymore
- AI too powerful (suddenly there is the AI kicking my ass after someone left o.o)
- Weapons need to be re-balanced since Armor is gone. Too much firepower.
+- Every Tank now has a weapon of choice
+ Health is finally balanced
+ Shields are pretty much balanced
another thing:
you have 1 cannon for slow and 3 machineguns for damage. your vehicel stays at range 8. should be changed to close in to the shortest weaponrange equipped.
mines are still useless, 3 lvl 1 mines cant even kill a hellion at start. later on they can have 480+480 and do exactly nothing. its a wasted space, which is far more usefull for drones.
another thing: you have 1 cannon for slow and 3 machineguns for damage. your vehicel stays at range 8. should be changed to close in to the shortest weaponrange equipped.
Unfixable I'm afraid. If you just use the Attack order, your vehicle will always stay at max range.
mines are still useless, 3 lvl 1 mines cant even kill a hellion at start. later on they can have 480+480 and do exactly nothing. its a wasted space, which is far more usefull for drones.
Well in my mind, mines alone never were meant to take people out alone. I might increase their radius some though, and see how that helps.
but for the cost of mines beeing effective (drone link) i could buy cannon and snare drone which is more effective in all other aspects as well :)
turrets are the same thing.. they should scale with level to be of any use
I actually really like using turrets. My end-game usually involves taking the outer outposts with a tank covered in level 3 +life and +shield items, with 4x drone links and 4x of the best turrets I can afford.
that sounds like fun.
my game just now involved using cloak, target painter, drone links, snare, and turrets. in theory i thought its a good idea to run around cloaked while painting and slowing people and giving support with turrets. that went good on lvl1 then it had gone horribly bad cause turrets die to missiles in seconds.
now your endgame... thats a lot of money for 4 glascannons. just dps wise its superior to get 4 weapons and 4 drones. not to mention the placing destroying and running around to get them into a good position. i currently see the negative aspects heavily outweight the benefit of it.
holy crap this is one of the biggest threads ive seen :O but anyway i think you should find some pro testers (like vjeux (ok i was kidding on that one)) that find the prefrect balances
starting with 4x machinegun + shield reg ability (yes you have to sell your starting weapon and wait 10sec for it) feels way to strong
i can easily take any spot within seconds and beat everyone who doesnt start with a healspell right away
you kill stuff faster then the dropships drop em
the amount of cash you get from it, since you kill almost every biounit instantly, leads to insane amount of gold
and there is a bug with missle luncher
lvl 1/4 have 10 range, lv 2/3 11
The shield (and armour) repair abilities are both going to be replaced. As for machine guns, if they are making all other weapons obsolete, then there's a problem. If they are just too strong when combined with early game shield repair, then I'm okay with that because shield repair is going away.
Since my computer has been broke for 2 weeks I haven't been able to try this map, but does the shield regenerate while fighting or only out of combat? I remember seeing a game (is it even standard?) where shields only regenerate when you are not fighting. It's kind of hard to give an opinion on this but if you do have them regenerate in combat and they are OP, perhaps considering to stop combat regeneration might make them a bit more balanced rather than having to ditch them totally?
dunno wether its the combination or simply the absurd high dmg of machine guns against bio (together with the fast target switch/no overkill)
if you want to kill bio with guns or missle luncher you always shoot all at once and hope to kill one biounit
with machine guns you just fire as much as you need to
and i have the feeling that playerkills dont affect the game enough, its not even enough time to take a spawnlocation unless you completly dominate them and/or took no dmg
and i have the feeling that playerkills dont affect the game enough, its not even enough time to take a spawnlocation unless you completly dominate them and/or took no dmg
Yeah, I'm planning on changing this. My plan is as follows;
You receive 2 vespane per 10 seconds for each outpost you control. Killing a player nets you 5 vespane.
Vespane is a team resource (right now it's controlled by an internal variable, but the display can bug if someone on your team leaves).
If someone on your team is spending it all in a way you don't like, well, tough. It's a team game. Sorry. I've already fostered some team play by basically forcing players to team up to take outposts. While I don't want to over-do it, given players are already communicating for this, I feel having a team game plan for vespane wouldn't be too far fetched. Of course, if it doesn't work in the game, it'll be removed.
You will be able to spend this team resource on either upgrading your troops (200 vespane) or creating a super unit (800 vespane).
The super unit is basically a game ending device. It will be killable, but it will take time and attention away from the enemy players that, hopefully, the team who spent the vespane on it can use this time to gain the upper hand or win entirely.
It should take you around 20 minutes to amass 800 vespane. The unit will be about the same strength as a decked out level 3 tank that will also scale with unit upgrades. If it reaches the other fortress, it's weapons will shut off and it will charge it's main gun on the fortress, killing it rapidly if it does reach it's destination.
This is my current goal, which should punish bad players for dying while not meaning the end of the world.
what about limiting higher level weapons to higher level chassis?
beside that its annoying that if you buy HP items, they just increase ur max hp, not the current one
you always need to repair afterwards
which leads to: repair stations rapairrate should be based on %, not a fixed value, maybe with a maximum rate, but if you aim for high HP it takes ages to get repaired
could also make more upgrades available with the vespene gas, like tower upgrades, or repair rate, price discount on everything, but its up to you
what about limiting higher level weapons to higher level chassis?
beside that its annoying that if you buy HP items, they just increase ur max hp, not the current one you always need to repair afterwards which leads to: repair stations rapairrate should be based on %, not a fixed value, maybe with a maximum rate, but if you aim for high HP it takes ages to get repaired
could also make more upgrades available with the vespene gas, like tower upgrades, or repair rate, price discount on everything, but its up to you
The repair thing after buying hit point items is deliberate, and actually triggered. If this didn't occur, you could buy a +400hp item and simply equip/unequip it to heal yourself infinitely.
The repair thing after buying hit point items is deliberate, and actually triggered. If this didn't occur, you could buy a +400hp item and simply equip/unequip it to heal yourself infinitely.
To counter that, you could make it so it damages your health by an equal amount if you unequip it unless it would kill you? Hmm perhaps that would get some exploits like equip/unequip spamming in combat so you never die... must be possible to trigger a failsafe for it.
Oh after playing WoW for 5 years I'm well aware of the things some people can come out with! The changes I'm most receptive to, however, are changes that I already had in mind.
The reason I want to change npc spawns is that the game, as of now, only replaces dead units. This makes the spawns a little erratic, though usually favours the defenders. I was going to try a different, more standard model where the spawns are fixed, like in DotA.
I'm very happy with bio right now. It's not overpoweringly strong unless you lose all 5 bases - at which point you basically should lose anyway.
Base defences... well, I dunno. I think I just don't see eye to eye with people on how they should be. To me, they should be a deterrent, only barely strong enough to repel bio. As soon as a tank gets involved, the tower should go down if left unsupported. I buffed the turrets in this latest build. Increased their health and gave them a custom weapon. Will see how this pans out.
Okay, after testing, it comes down to this:
- Too many Spawn Defenders at center, reduce the number a little
- Needs more CC Power (Make it so that Spawns alone can't take it)
- Base Defense still too weak
- Mines get priority fire, so when you place them, they die instantly
- Too many spawns from the Capture Points, when you're with stupid (like I'm often), you can't turn the tide of battle anymore
- AI too powerful (suddenly there is the AI kicking my ass after someone left o.o)
- Weapons need to be re-balanced since Armor is gone. Too much firepower.
+- Every Tank now has a weapon of choice
+ Health is finally balanced
+ Shields are pretty much balanced
- Skill doesn't make up for stupid Teammates >.>
another thing: you have 1 cannon for slow and 3 machineguns for damage. your vehicel stays at range 8. should be changed to close in to the shortest weaponrange equipped.
mines are still useless, 3 lvl 1 mines cant even kill a hellion at start. later on they can have 480+480 and do exactly nothing. its a wasted space, which is far more usefull for drones.
mines and turrets RANDOMLY explode
Unfixable I'm afraid. If you just use the Attack order, your vehicle will always stay at max range.
Well in my mind, mines alone never were meant to take people out alone. I might increase their radius some though, and see how that helps.
I wish I knew what causes this... I suspect it has something to do with when your attackers get upgraded. More feedback on this would be appreciated.
that is good bcause that is the part skill kicks in.
but for the cost of mines beeing effective (drone link) i could buy cannon and snare drone which is more effective in all other aspects as well :) turrets are the same thing.. they should scale with level to be of any use
I actually really like using turrets. My end-game usually involves taking the outer outposts with a tank covered in level 3 +life and +shield items, with 4x drone links and 4x of the best turrets I can afford.
I just wish I knew what is randomly killing them.
that sounds like fun. my game just now involved using cloak, target painter, drone links, snare, and turrets. in theory i thought its a good idea to run around cloaked while painting and slowing people and giving support with turrets. that went good on lvl1 then it had gone horribly bad cause turrets die to missiles in seconds.
now your endgame... thats a lot of money for 4 glascannons. just dps wise its superior to get 4 weapons and 4 drones. not to mention the placing destroying and running around to get them into a good position. i currently see the negative aspects heavily outweight the benefit of it.
diffrent playstyles possible - checked
gj on that one. actually i like how the center works now it is possible to capture it but it is also easyly defended.
I don't get how people can 2-3 shot me in the first few minutes far away. Maybe not accurate description but it feels like that sometimes.
edit: Meh, same thing at the end of a game I played. Fairly equal teams but i still get 1-2 shotted. Boring.
holy crap this is one of the biggest threads ive seen :O but anyway i think you should find some pro testers (like vjeux (ok i was kidding on that one)) that find the prefrect balances
starting with 4x machinegun + shield reg ability (yes you have to sell your starting weapon and wait 10sec for it) feels way to strong i can easily take any spot within seconds and beat everyone who doesnt start with a healspell right away you kill stuff faster then the dropships drop em
the amount of cash you get from it, since you kill almost every biounit instantly, leads to insane amount of gold
and there is a bug with missle luncher lvl 1/4 have 10 range, lv 2/3 11
The shield (and armour) repair abilities are both going to be replaced. As for machine guns, if they are making all other weapons obsolete, then there's a problem. If they are just too strong when combined with early game shield repair, then I'm okay with that because shield repair is going away.
Since my computer has been broke for 2 weeks I haven't been able to try this map, but does the shield regenerate while fighting or only out of combat? I remember seeing a game (is it even standard?) where shields only regenerate when you are not fighting. It's kind of hard to give an opinion on this but if you do have them regenerate in combat and they are OP, perhaps considering to stop combat regeneration might make them a bit more balanced rather than having to ditch them totally?
They regen in combat and it's something I most definitely want to keep in.
On that note I feel that the armour repair items are weak. Again, feedback is appreciated.
dunno wether its the combination or simply the absurd high dmg of machine guns against bio (together with the fast target switch/no overkill)
if you want to kill bio with guns or missle luncher you always shoot all at once and hope to kill one biounit with machine guns you just fire as much as you need to
and i have the feeling that playerkills dont affect the game enough, its not even enough time to take a spawnlocation unless you completly dominate them and/or took no dmg
Yeah, I'm planning on changing this. My plan is as follows;
You receive 2 vespane per 10 seconds for each outpost you control. Killing a player nets you 5 vespane.
Vespane is a team resource (right now it's controlled by an internal variable, but the display can bug if someone on your team leaves).
If someone on your team is spending it all in a way you don't like, well, tough. It's a team game. Sorry. I've already fostered some team play by basically forcing players to team up to take outposts. While I don't want to over-do it, given players are already communicating for this, I feel having a team game plan for vespane wouldn't be too far fetched. Of course, if it doesn't work in the game, it'll be removed.
You will be able to spend this team resource on either upgrading your troops (200 vespane) or creating a super unit (800 vespane).
The super unit is basically a game ending device. It will be killable, but it will take time and attention away from the enemy players that, hopefully, the team who spent the vespane on it can use this time to gain the upper hand or win entirely.
It should take you around 20 minutes to amass 800 vespane. The unit will be about the same strength as a decked out level 3 tank that will also scale with unit upgrades. If it reaches the other fortress, it's weapons will shut off and it will charge it's main gun on the fortress, killing it rapidly if it does reach it's destination.
This is my current goal, which should punish bad players for dying while not meaning the end of the world.
sounds good
what about limiting higher level weapons to higher level chassis?
beside that its annoying that if you buy HP items, they just increase ur max hp, not the current one you always need to repair afterwards which leads to: repair stations rapairrate should be based on %, not a fixed value, maybe with a maximum rate, but if you aim for high HP it takes ages to get repaired
could also make more upgrades available with the vespene gas, like tower upgrades, or repair rate, price discount on everything, but its up to you
The repair thing after buying hit point items is deliberate, and actually triggered. If this didn't occur, you could buy a +400hp item and simply equip/unequip it to heal yourself infinitely.
To counter that, you could make it so it damages your health by an equal amount if you unequip it unless it would kill you? Hmm perhaps that would get some exploits like equip/unequip spamming in combat so you never die... must be possible to trigger a failsafe for it.