I disagree that we need a warcraft specific forum. This is sc2 mapster afterall. But we could use mod centered forums. Currently they often have to post in map review/feedback.
No. This is SC2mapsters, not WC3mapsters. If you want WC3, go to WC3campaigns or whatever its called. As it stands, ReneeĀ“s WC3 mod is just that, a MOD for SC2 and should be treated as such. Having a seperate forum will just hurt the SC2 mapping community overall, I feel.
I think he means subforum. Based on that assumption: If HOTS gets its own subforum (Which should be in off-topic) and "map feedback" and "map reviews" are separate subforums (One is just "Hey, review my map" While the other is "Hey, I reviewed this map!" then why not?
Assuming "Subforum" is the suggestion, and not entirely new forum, than I highly suggest it as well; a forum based around the WC3 assets at least, maybe not specifically Renee.
I think he means subforum.Based on that assumption:If HOTS gets its own subforum (Which should be in off-topic) and "map feedback" and "map reviews" are separate subforums (One is just "Hey, review my map" While the other is "Hey, I reviewed this map!" then why not?
Assuming "Subforum" is the suggestion, and not entirely new forum, than I highly suggest it as well; a forum based around the WC3 assets at least, maybe not specifically Renee.
Im especially against a subforum. Not only do I feel like it would breed elitism (which the WC3 and SC2 mapping communities seem to be especially prone to) but also hurt SC2 mapping in a way. A strong WC3 themed mapping community can boost SC2 mapping itself, but if you try to seperate the WC3 stuff from the usual SC2 stuff, we run the risk of further drying out the SC2 mapping community overall and in the end we will be left with a bunch of WC3 themed mappers while SC2 themed mappers dont get any attention.
Im against any sort of seperation, because its all SC2 mapping and should be treated equally.
i think the opposite is true. a own subforum might encourage ppl to move from wc3 to sc2. there is no seperation, it just gets its place because its HUGE. it's not just some models.
I agree with the proposition. The mod is huge, and I would love all things related to it to be in one place. If anything, seeing how it gets special treatment might encourage people to try it out. Otherwise as great as it is it risks to get burred and forgotten.
Also lol at people who pretend to think it's about adding a wc3 subforum.
Agreed, would be a good addition. Maybe it can pave the way for more large projects to get their own subforums in the future. Similarly to how other forums have a 'hosted projects' section for their best of the best!
We just got a wc3 asset pack and a forum for making full use of that pack seems just as worthy as other niche forums such as AI development or cinematics.
I normally would avoid to post things on these kind of debate. But I definitely NEED a subforum for my war3 mod or at least for war3 assets.
This mod itself is for map-makers, not the players. It's both melee and custom, it's tutorial and project, trigger lib and art asset and 3rd part tool, not a single forum here fits it. If SC2Mapster.com is a site for map-makers, then I don't think there are is any reason to not have a place for mod based develop.
The most important reason, is I don't even able to post things about the Mod. There are tons of new systems, supports and architectures in it, each of them could be a single lib if I publish them alone. And they means to be used by the map makers, so I will need to write tons of documents for it. And the systems are so unique that I can't just post them in the tutorial forums or the modders would get confused and thought they can use it in normal maps. My mod is never truly 'published' without such a forum to post and organize all things.
If I just want a subforum for players of the mod, I can just go teamliquid, but the mod is exist for map-makers, so I need it here. The mod is like the GAx3 mod I published before. There is no other mods like this.
Also I sure can't just post everything on the general forum. with the handful threads I posted here, they've already caused confusion. And they are too scattered that can't be organized by anyone who would like to try it. I have 10 times more which I planed to post.
Iāve PMed sixen months ago (the PTR period). And he's agreed that time, it didn't happened yet though.
Just image if heroes get a editor in the future, you could argue that heroes shares the same editor as sc2, so it won't need a subforum for discussion, or sc2mapster should be sc2 only, we don't need heroes.
But the reality is, having a heroes subforum won't spilt the mod community, while not having one will. We only have this much of modders which ever willing to learn or try the editor. And most of them have already withdrawal today. If heroes would revive them, you won't want to stop them and saying 'back to the tomb, we only need true sc2 adherents here!'
Also trying to having the heroes modders to discussed in the same subforum would cause confusion, while the editor is the same, the architecture are too different that you can't put them with normal sc2 map development discussion. Even if you can get people who understand you to answer your heroes question, it would still bad since a site is not for Q&A only, but also served as a Q&A lib for other members who possess the same questions to refer, it would confuse them to see two different kinds of topics discussed in the same subforum - or why we would ever need a subforum if we can have everything discussed in the same place?
And if there is no place to discuss the heroes editor, then there would be a HeroesMapster.com or a Heroesworkshop.com sooner or later, guess if it would split the community or not. Even it is very likely that the 'HeroesMapster' to be failed epically after like 1-2 months of its opening, the community would still be split - trust me, I'm the headmaster of whole blizzard-RTS-modder-community of china, my organization is even ancient than the WC3C.net and the campaigncreations.org, with 10+ years of experiences, I know how things would normally goes in the modder scene, there is no 'Combat make both sides evolves' here, there is only 'Fail/Fail'.
Better to have them all in the same site, since we only have this bunch of modders. At least we can share the experience since the editor is the same with differences in architecture.
Also, using my mod is everything opposite to the 'elitismā, because you can directly use or modify tons of abilities and heroes/item system in it. Part of the reason the war3 editor is easy because of it. While standard sc2 mod lack it. Of cause it could provide more detailed docs and more fast on reacting to the feedbacks to change the system.
i fully agree with renee, not filling this gap will mean some other site will do. we need every single person on this site. and honestly i dont wanna read questions about the mod in the data or triggers forum all the time (the mod is huge but i am not sure if it is not too late for sc2 modding at all).
I know that teams are able to have their own forums on SC2Mapster. It may well be possible for you to submit your Warcraft mod as a project, and then create a forum on the project page.
Aaw, a sc2 modding site that is actually supported would be sweet. But splits are dangerous to play with. Maybe we all could jump ships and use mapster as archives? :3
On the other side I'm so used to this place being borderline dead that I wouldn't even know anymore what updates could be benefited from.
I agree with Tya; and I think that gives much more reason to do it here. I dont understand the people who are saying, "We don't want more WC3 based editors to come in here and take focus off the SC2 based editing." As you also say, "This is SC2 editing, with a WC3 theme."
You think that more people coming to this site, because they enjoy the WC3 based mod for SC2 is going to hurt the community?
The organization of this forum is "ehh" and the search function is a giant joke. Great threads are lost to history as it is. Really, the best thing for the sc2 mapping community would be move entirely to the hive workshop, and hope for some crossover collaboration; if that is what this thread is about.
...but it isn't. It is about providing an area where someone who put a lot of work into a sc2 mod, to support the sc2 modding community, can more easily support their mod and allow potential modders to learn, grow, edit, and create stuff of a higher quality and at a faster pace.
I would suggest that any massive, open project, intended to help the community as a whole get it's own page. Shit, any popular game should get it's own page. Look at the sc2 forums, and sc2gump; they are taking hundreds of active users, because those users love a specific game, and this site is terrible for user projects.
Stop being lazy and do it already.
+1 (4 chars)
I disagree that we need a warcraft specific forum. This is sc2 mapster afterall. But we could use mod centered forums. Currently they often have to post in map review/feedback.
No. This is SC2mapsters, not WC3mapsters. If you want WC3, go to WC3campaigns or whatever its called. As it stands, ReneeĀ“s WC3 mod is just that, a MOD for SC2 and should be treated as such. Having a seperate forum will just hurt the SC2 mapping community overall, I feel.
I think he means subforum. Based on that assumption: If HOTS gets its own subforum (Which should be in off-topic) and "map feedback" and "map reviews" are separate subforums (One is just "Hey, review my map" While the other is "Hey, I reviewed this map!" then why not?
Assuming "Subforum" is the suggestion, and not entirely new forum, than I highly suggest it as well; a forum based around the WC3 assets at least, maybe not specifically Renee.
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418
Im especially against a subforum. Not only do I feel like it would breed elitism (which the WC3 and SC2 mapping communities seem to be especially prone to) but also hurt SC2 mapping in a way. A strong WC3 themed mapping community can boost SC2 mapping itself, but if you try to seperate the WC3 stuff from the usual SC2 stuff, we run the risk of further drying out the SC2 mapping community overall and in the end we will be left with a bunch of WC3 themed mappers while SC2 themed mappers dont get any attention.
Im against any sort of seperation, because its all SC2 mapping and should be treated equally.
i think the opposite is true. a own subforum might encourage ppl to move from wc3 to sc2. there is no seperation, it just gets its place because its HUGE. it's not just some models.
Disagree with new warcraft forum. Sc2mapster is for sc mods.
I agree with the proposition. The mod is huge, and I would love all things related to it to be in one place. If anything, seeing how it gets special treatment might encourage people to try it out. Otherwise as great as it is it risks to get burred and forgotten.
Also lol at people who pretend to think it's about adding a wc3 subforum.
Agreed, would be a good addition. Maybe it can pave the way for more large projects to get their own subforums in the future. Similarly to how other forums have a 'hosted projects' section for their best of the best!
As a member of this forum i don't see a one reason to do it.
I'm for a wc3 subforum with Renee's mod stickied.
We just got a wc3 asset pack and a forum for making full use of that pack seems just as worthy as other niche forums such as AI development or cinematics.
I normally would avoid to post things on these kind of debate. But I definitely NEED a subforum for my war3 mod or at least for war3 assets.
This mod itself is for map-makers, not the players. It's both melee and custom, it's tutorial and project, trigger lib and art asset and 3rd part tool, not a single forum here fits it. If SC2Mapster.com is a site for map-makers, then I don't think there are is any reason to not have a place for mod based develop.
The most important reason, is I don't even able to post things about the Mod. There are tons of new systems, supports and architectures in it, each of them could be a single lib if I publish them alone. And they means to be used by the map makers, so I will need to write tons of documents for it. And the systems are so unique that I can't just post them in the tutorial forums or the modders would get confused and thought they can use it in normal maps. My mod is never truly 'published' without such a forum to post and organize all things.
If I just want a subforum for players of the mod, I can just go teamliquid, but the mod is exist for map-makers, so I need it here. The mod is like the GAx3 mod I published before. There is no other mods like this.
Also I sure can't just post everything on the general forum. with the handful threads I posted here, they've already caused confusion. And they are too scattered that can't be organized by anyone who would like to try it. I have 10 times more which I planed to post.
Iāve PMed sixen months ago (the PTR period). And he's agreed that time, it didn't happened yet though.
For the cons:
Just image if heroes get a editor in the future, you could argue that heroes shares the same editor as sc2, so it won't need a subforum for discussion, or sc2mapster should be sc2 only, we don't need heroes.
But the reality is, having a heroes subforum won't spilt the mod community, while not having one will. We only have this much of modders which ever willing to learn or try the editor. And most of them have already withdrawal today. If heroes would revive them, you won't want to stop them and saying 'back to the tomb, we only need true sc2 adherents here!'
Also trying to having the heroes modders to discussed in the same subforum would cause confusion, while the editor is the same, the architecture are too different that you can't put them with normal sc2 map development discussion. Even if you can get people who understand you to answer your heroes question, it would still bad since a site is not for Q&A only, but also served as a Q&A lib for other members who possess the same questions to refer, it would confuse them to see two different kinds of topics discussed in the same subforum - or why we would ever need a subforum if we can have everything discussed in the same place?
And if there is no place to discuss the heroes editor, then there would be a HeroesMapster.com or a Heroesworkshop.com sooner or later, guess if it would split the community or not. Even it is very likely that the 'HeroesMapster' to be failed epically after like 1-2 months of its opening, the community would still be split - trust me, I'm the headmaster of whole blizzard-RTS-modder-community of china, my organization is even ancient than the WC3C.net and the campaigncreations.org, with 10+ years of experiences, I know how things would normally goes in the modder scene, there is no 'Combat make both sides evolves' here, there is only 'Fail/Fail'.
Better to have them all in the same site, since we only have this bunch of modders. At least we can share the experience since the editor is the same with differences in architecture.
Also, using my mod is everything opposite to the 'elitismā, because you can directly use or modify tons of abilities and heroes/item system in it. Part of the reason the war3 editor is easy because of it. While standard sc2 mod lack it. Of cause it could provide more detailed docs and more fast on reacting to the feedbacks to change the system.
i fully agree with renee, not filling this gap will mean some other site will do. we need every single person on this site. and honestly i dont wanna read questions about the mod in the data or triggers forum all the time (the mod is huge but i am not sure if it is not too late for sc2 modding at all).
Why not just create one of those author pages, or carve out a section of the wiki if you need more space?
I know that teams are able to have their own forums on SC2Mapster. It may well be possible for you to submit your Warcraft mod as a project, and then create a forum on the project page.
Aaw, a sc2 modding site that is actually supported would be sweet. But splits are dangerous to play with. Maybe we all could jump ships and use mapster as archives? :3
On the other side I'm so used to this place being borderline dead that I wouldn't even know anymore what updates could be benefited from.
@Renee2islga: Go
Have you tried PMing the guys over at http://www.hiveworkshop.com?
That place is still incredibly active, and having your mod highlighted there might tempt a few wc3 mapmakers into using it!
I agree with Tya; and I think that gives much more reason to do it here. I dont understand the people who are saying, "We don't want more WC3 based editors to come in here and take focus off the SC2 based editing." As you also say, "This is SC2 editing, with a WC3 theme."
You think that more people coming to this site, because they enjoy the WC3 based mod for SC2 is going to hurt the community?
The organization of this forum is "ehh" and the search function is a giant joke. Great threads are lost to history as it is. Really, the best thing for the sc2 mapping community would be move entirely to the hive workshop, and hope for some crossover collaboration; if that is what this thread is about.
...but it isn't. It is about providing an area where someone who put a lot of work into a sc2 mod, to support the sc2 modding community, can more easily support their mod and allow potential modders to learn, grow, edit, and create stuff of a higher quality and at a faster pace.
I would suggest that any massive, open project, intended to help the community as a whole get it's own page. Shit, any popular game should get it's own page. Look at the sc2 forums, and sc2gump; they are taking hundreds of active users, because those users love a specific game, and this site is terrible for user projects.
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418